Yonhap News is reporting that China is unamused by the fact that Korea’s three biggest terrestrial broadcasters—KBS, MBC and SBS—have decided to run historical dramas dealing with Goguryeo or the Goguryeo successor state of Balhae at roughly the same time.
MBC recently started up “Jumong,” a 60-part drama on the founder of the Goguryeo kingdom, while SBS will start a 100-part drama on Goguryeo from July. KBS will begin airing a 100-part drama on the history of the Balhae kingdom from September.
The Chinese reportedly suspect this to be a government-backed response to Beijing’s “Northeast Project,” which Koreans accuse of being a Chinese attempt to appropriate Goguryeo history.
Chinese broadcasting officials at the 2006 Shanghai Television Festival (STVF 2006), which ended Wednesday, apparently believed the stations to be under the influence of the government, said a KBS official who was at the trade fair. They also believed that three broadcasters’ producing of dramas dealing with Goguryeo history amounted to a Korean government response to China’s Northeast Project.
Chinese reporters and broadcasting officials were also said to have reacted sensitively to MBC’s extensive promotion of “Jumong” at STVF 2006, including its conspicuously displayed poster for the show at the broadcaster’s booth. The drama has been quite popular in Korea, garnering viewer ratings of over 30 percent.
The KBS official said there’s already considerable suspicion within China concerning the intention behind Korea’s Big 3 broadcasters running dramas on Goguryeo and Balhae at roughly the same time. He expressed concern that as we’d seen in the past with the drama “Daejanggeum,” if the broadcasters actively promote the dramas as part of the Korean Wave, the Chinese government could respond.
Yonhap pointed out that since January of the year, China’s State Administration of Radio, Film & Television (SARFT)—apparently upset about the one-way nature of “Korean Wave” imports—has stopped screening Korean dramas for import.
An official from Korea’s Ministry of Culture and Tourism said there’s been some strange things going on pertaining to the “Korean Wave” and “Goguryeo historical dramas.” For example, when Culture Minister Kim Myung-gon visited China last month, the head of SARFT, whom Kim was scheduled to meet, abruptly informed the Korean side that the meeting was being canceled four days ahead of the scheduled sitdown.
An official with the Korean Broadcasting Commission said the thing of which the Chinese government is making the biggest deal is the trade imbalance resulting from one-way Korean exports of “Korean Wave” cultural products, and that imprudent sales and promotion strategies by some Korean broadcasting companies were also a problem. He warned that broadcasters shouldn’t extensively promote in China historical dramas dealing with Goguryeo history, and that if broadcasters try to link the dramas to China’s Northeast Project, it could cause diplomatic problems.
99 Comments
The Marmot, if you’re not going to use McCune-Reischauer as your primary form of Romanization, at the very least would it be possible to include, parenthetically at least, the McCune-Reischauer spellings of these key areas of Korean Studies so that people outside Korea who might have read about these elsewhere would end up being able to connect to your informative site?
Koguryŏ, or Koguryo.
Good idea, Kushibo. It’s a pain having to include alternate spellings when I google.
Red China isn’t quite satisfied with trying to just censor its country’s material, they apparently feel a need to try to censor material in Korea too. Get over it you big communist country. You see, when you sided with Russia, Koreans stopped caring what you had to say about anything. This maybe true in North Korea too now. So, stick to trying to censoring Chinese movies, books, magazine, and ‘net access from China. HAHA
–Remort
Good, I’m glad China is upset. Hopefully it will force more Koreans to pull their heads out of their collective arses when it comes to China and realize ditching the U.S. for China does NOT make stragetic sense, just the oppisite.
Eh… if China’s upset, then they have the right not to watch those dramas. Better yet, they could one-up South Korea and make their own dramas about Balhae (Bohai) and Goguryeo.
And film those dramas in old Goguryeo palaces recently restored in Tang Dynasty style as part of China’s Northeast Project.
What can you expect?
Chinese Gov. has shut down Google in the past because you could find the truth about the country and what other people say.
Not only Chinese Gov. promoting “Northeast Project” to manipulates Koguryo history but also manipulates recent history - for example, Chinese students learn that the Chinese involvement in the Korean War was defensive even though Mao attacked the UN force long before it approached the border.
Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao once said, “Only a country that respects history, takes responsibility for past history and wins over the trust of people in Asia and the world at large can take greater responsibility in the international community”. What a hypocrite! -..-
The U.S. ought to send a clear message on censorship, piracy, human trafficking, and human rights to China by revoking its MFN (Most Favored Nation) trading status, and knock China back into the Stone Age.
–Remort
@Jimong: “Chinese students learn that the Chinese involvement in the Korean War was defensive even though Mao attacked the UN force long before it approached the border”
Can you support that?
Sonagi
That’s what my Chinese colleagues told me even one guy said he learned that technically China didn’t involved the Korean war since most of Chinese PLA were volunteered.
What kind of journalism is this? The original story attributes certain views to Chinese officials, but does not mention any sources or evidence other than hearsay from Korean counterparts.
South Korean journalism….
What kind of journalism is this? The original story attributes certain views to Chinese officials, but does not mention any sources or evidence other than hearsay from Korean counterparts.
In my conversations about Chinese participation in the Korean War, Chinese nationals, including ethnic Koreans, have expressed the official view that it was defensive, to repel the Americans, who had reached the Yalu. In fact, my Korean-Chinese acquaintances blamed the US for the Korean War and praised Kim Il-sung while acknowledging that North Korea has not prospered under his son’s rule. I know a few globally aware Chinese who regret their country’s assistance to the north because of how that country has turned out. There were probably advisors and perhaps some ground forces, just as there was clandestine US military participation in Vietnam before Kennedy started sending troops.
South Korea should make more of these dramas, as long as it wishes. There is no need to fear unreasonable Chinese desires to suppress Korean history. If Goguryo was part of Chinese history, what sense does it make that the Sui Dynasty attacked it? And Tang also? You won’t find a Chinese person who doesn’t say that Sui and Tang unified China.
It’s kind of Korea’s own fault that Shilla allied with Tang to kill Koguryo and Paekchae, and give a big chunk of land to Tang. Sure, they can claim it all went to Balhae, but history or records on Balhae are scarce. It was the worst possible unification move, to have it done by Shilla. That said, like most Korean families, my family also originates from a Shilla clan.
And, of course the South Korean government is invovled in this. This practice is the Presidential powers controlling the tv was a favorite power trip at least since Park Chung Hee. Public opinion is strongly influenced by what the tv tells them.
Same for the Chinese in China. They think their country is peaceful, great on human rights, etc. I don’t know if that’s by tv or not, but they seem to think they’re misunderstood in so many ways.
Privately, I don’t think the “white devils” are making everything up.
Chinese government is funneling selective information to the public to shape public thought.
There is no need to appease the Chinese government with the choice of tv broadcasts. South Korea is a free country, thanks to the US. Let freedom reign.
You can’t have it both ways. Claim that Sui and Tang unified China, and say that Koguryo was also China. That’s bull shit.
if korean folk want to have a taste of what’s to come, they should travel to wikipaedia’s entry on balhae. there, they’ll be met by a large disclaimer indicating that the truthfulness of the article is being challenged. click on the discussion page to see who’s doing the challengeing and the defense put up by the actual authors of the entry.
prediction: china may bring about a friendship between the koreans and japanese that has never existed before. keep on going, china. make everyone your enemy! is koguryeo worth that to you?
‘earliest bird bones found in china prove birds are chinese.’ wen shao bing, professor at bohai u.
‘we are the middle country. we’re the most beatiful people on earth!’ ching chong chang, chinaman
‘these kinds of things are good for america.’ pawi, the real american
Honestly Marmot, why are the Hole’s regular Kyopo commenters so unfortunately drawn from the “our pride, our cool” brigade of internet riff-raff. I blame your pheremones!
We need them to piss off anti-American Chinese nationalists like Luxbearer, aka Xi. Like his avatar?
He hasn’t even bothered to comment in this thread. In any case, hes just a passing troll, unlike the chest thumping regulars.
I gotta admit, Jing, when there’s a post about China expressed by a Westerner or a Gyopo at the Hole, it’s usually negative, and these views upset and anger the occasional Chinese netizen who wanders in. It’s good to have you as a regular.
The issue really has nothing to do with negativity. It’s just that when a kyopo comments on certain issues, it is unbelievably childish. One gets the impression that the person writing it at the other end is a 12 year old throwing a hissy-fit.
Negativity is an issue. Talk about the China threat is rampant here.
The news story that spawned this thread and the one about banning Chinese dramas came from South Korean newspapers, and as Plockhoy pointed out in post #11, both stories are based on hearsay.
On our cable system in Seoul there’s a Chinese-language station that’s running a series featuring young Mao in his rabble-rousing youth–I haven’t bothered to follow any of it, so I can’t honestly say whether it “glorifies” him or not, however, maybe the Korean gov’t should pull the plug on it. Culture war!
Jing, you are by definition the Korean equivalent of a Kyopo. Shut the hell up.
Jing, I mean, you are also a Chinese living abroad in the US. I retract, “shut the hell up”. Speak freely as you empowered to do so. It should really read, the Chinese equivalent of, Oh well.
remort, it has nothing to do with a censorship issue. they are blocking imports of korean dramas because they want to promote their own dramas. however this causes serious conflict with the koreans, because they are already facing screen cutter quota suggestions in FTA.
and from the other thread about the chinese blocking the korea wave, many chinese commented that korean dramas suck and they are boring and they got old. however they are still popular in china. maybe not amongst your friends, and maybe it is because for 8 years korean dramas were the only dramas imported, but they are still being watched.
and as for the korguryeo dramas in the making, this is only following the trend of new history dramas. for the longest time, the history dramas lacked new flavor and content, every show was about the Chosun dynasty. korguryeo dramas are among the new storylines that are trying to refresh the history drama genre. sure, it comes at quite the timing with the whole conflict with china, and sure it may stir up controversy, but it is only to refresh the boring history genre. now they are making more storylines and more varying topics aside from just the Chosun storyline. Koguryeo is just one of these new storylines.
pawi, you sound very pro-korean and anti-everyone else. being overly pro-korean is actually kind of bad, because it makes you look narrow minded. imo, the best way to go about is to play the middle road, be friendly to all, so that korea may benefit from all relations. that is a true pro-korean.
I think they come to see your gravatar.
With NK telling SKs, “Don’t vote Hannara, or else” and the Chinese saying “Do not make history dramas, or else”. SKs have no option to listen to them. So much for “independence from foreign influence”.
What can SK do? With no help from the US, SK is a naked virgin into a prison full of men. Expect bleeding!
“What can SK do? With no help from the US, SK is a naked virgin into a prison full of men. Expect bleeding!”
Too funny, Baduk, and good gravatar, too, though Jing’s is the best.
This is a move by SK to keep their people in the past. China wants to annex NK and it is attempting to do so through history.
Yes, pawi, Bluejives and the other true believers in SK as a ‘balancer’ ‘neutral player’ ‘independent’ will soon learn, once the left has finally gotten rid of the US, how benevolent and caring the Chinese are towards South Korea.
I should have wrote “expect forceful entries into every hole in her body”. Politics, finances, culture, education, family. SK cannot stop these men, these powerful influences.
Who are these men? China, NK, Russia, Japan, EUs…Even Taiwan will try to get his jolley off Korea.
Expect losing self-esteem. Expect slavery. Expect being at the mercy of other countries.
You’re beginning to get disgustingly graphic, Baduk. Makes me wonder what you do online when you’re not at the Hole.
Besides SARFT’s new trade barriers against Korean dramas — Chinese ought to follow the ROK’s lead and call it their “small screen quota” — this reported protest of the Goryo dramas happens at the same time that SARFT has begun to censor Chinese historical dramas for “distorting” Chinese history. From the Chinese perspective, this might be a case of doing unto others as they do unto themselves.
Life must be so hard for you, Xi, what with people thinking you’re a stupid, sneaky, flat-faced Bangzi. What does that tell you exactly?
Too much garlic in his diet?
Xi,
Have you thought about writing children books? Your anger will be edited out by the editor.
But, you sure do think in their level.
See you think like them. Sort of like the following:
” Yesterday a big family with a cat moved in next door. And, today the cat came to my door. “Meow”, it said. I gave him (I don’t know it was a male cat) a piece of my tuna sandwich. The stupid(this will be edited out) cat swalled the tuna but left out the breads. I told the cat, “Eat, you stupid dumb f***”(this will be changed, Eat, you small creature). The cat would just look at it and look at it. I got a tad triffled.”
See just your style. Master of details about nothing. Just daily observations. No literature, philosophy or politics. Just what you see is what you know.
Small minds only knows what they see/feel/touch. A perfectly programmable creature, you are. Xi, have you heard of mind-programming?
Xi, that land, Manchuria is not Han Chinese land. It’s Khitan, Manchurian or Korean land, historically. Look up some old maps. China had this land for a brief time, in the big picture of things. The Han Chinese give shit to all the minority populations, yet they insist on holding onto their lands. Tibet is also historically not Han Chinese land. Neither is Inner Mongolia. I’m kind of guessing neither the Mongols, Manchurians, Khitans, Tibetians, or Koreans are happy to be part of the PRC. You’ll see Xi. China is an artificially puffed up land mass, much like the old USSR. As for your experiences with Korean people, it’s a combination of your preconceived annoyance and hatred for Koreans and some bad experiences. Relax, you’ll only lose hair and grow fat on the belly. You’re stressing over nothing. And like I said, if you want to write out Chinese words that say shit about Koreans, you should be aware there are plenty of Korean words that say shit about Chinese people. Shit goes around. At least have the courage to explain what your shit means.
talk about sneaky. Tang allies with Silla, and offers to help unify Korea. Tang destroys Paekchae, takes all valuables, and set up what are supposed to be permanent military bases. Tang destroys Koguryo with Shilla, and set up what are supposed to be permanent military bases. Then, Tang and Shilla go to war. Shilla only covers up to Pyong Yang and southward. Loses all else. But, this war and achievement is artificially glorified in Korean history, because it was written by pro Shilla forces. When in reality, any idiot can see that Shilla lost a ton of land, and only consisted of present day South Korea plus Pyong Yang and a little bit around it.
Tang is sneaky. The Chinese were sneaky. Shilla Korea was stupid beyond belief.
Don’t be too hard on Xi. He’s a young man going through an identity crisis. One moment he’s a CCP groupie named Luxbearer and the next, he’s gravatar-less Xi. Trolls are fun, but they do get old, and Xi/Luxbearer’s fifteen minutes of trolldom are about up.
Shouldn’t that be ‘Shilla gained a ton of land’? After all, they went from posessing the southeast corner of the peninsula to posessing most of it. That’s a gain in most people’s books. I suppose you’d call Alexander the Great’s empire a loss, as well, because he didn’t conquer all of India, but rather a small portion of it.
“Chinese students learn that the Chinese involvement in the Korean War was defensive even though Mao attacked the UN force long before it approached the border”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
obviously,UN force(or American force?)wanted to invade China through Korea.Sunzi said ,if the lips dead then the teeth thrilled,and Korea is China’s lip,if Korea controled by America , it’s dangerous for China.so we involved the war and won.
Now I know why Chinese government halted Korea dramas,it’s reasonable.
Japan hope China be seperate into six or seven parts,Korea is adjoin to China,so Korea want to have China’s earth.”the old maps”,they are so funny,and mean.Korea even hasn’t its own characters several hundred of years before,Korea used Chinese characters.
Xi ,calm down…:)t’s meaningless discuss the place belongs to China or Korea.Of coz,we have proofs that place belong to China ,but I think Korea even won’t listen to.China is a great country,ONLY America and Russian can press on China. And Russian isn’t so strong as before.
Laura, those maps of Chinese dynasties not including Manchuria were made by the Han Chinese.
What does not having our own writing system until a couple hundred years ago have anything to do with it?
Where’s your proof? Look at the Maps. Only Yuan and Qing had claim to Manchuria.
Obviously, the UN/Americans wanted to invade China? There is no proof of that. I suppose that’s what you were taught in China’s education system, justifying the war.
China’s not a great country. Commit a political crime. See what happens.
The stupid Koreans here on the forum just confirms my impression of them from real life. Xi
What kind of real life? Typing trivial troll-shit and lusting for attention? Go and visit a creative writing course or something like that, ya shmuck. You’re posted drivels are not even amusing…
Malaysian crackpots and Chinese asshats here at the Marmot’s: hub of Asian asininity?
Correction: “Your” - damn, am I getting asinine too?
Xi, prove it with Han Chinese made maps.
Oh, god… please, let’s not pull the stupid ‘dueling maps’ routine again. Yes, China’s aquisition of Manchuria (and lands formerly belonging to Koguryo) is fairly recent, as long as your idea of ‘fairly recent’ is taken into the context of thousands of years of history. On the other hand, China actually controls the are now, and is unlikely to give it up, so the question of who ‘owns’ the territory is ultimately meaningless - China does until and unless they lose it somehow.
Xi, I agree with you that probably it will belong to China for a long time into the future. But, it wasn’t always Han Chinese land. It was stolen more or less by the “sneaky” Chinese, and forfeited by the stupid Koreans.
Xi, I would also like to see what you look like. I want to see why Koreans ask if you are Korean.
Methinks the mad Malaysian god banned for much less. Is a house cleaning in order Marmot?
Anyways wjk, it seems your historical timeline seems to be limited. The Han dynasty ruled that era for quite some time before well before Koguryo. Pyongyang was founded as a Chinese city in the Li commanderie (district) within the Han empire. It wasn’t “stolen” by the “sneaky” Chinese as much as the the Koguryans (new word?) moved in after the Han weakened.
Now 2000 years later, modern Koreans based on a tenuous claim to ancestry from Koguryo are claiming that the Chinese are occupying “their land”. Oh the irony.
@Laura: “obviously,UN force(or American force?)wanted to invade China through Korea.Sunzi said ,if the lips dead then the teeth thrilled,and Korea is China’s lip,if Korea controled by America , it’s dangerous for China.so we involved the war and won.
“
I know from the school textbooks I brought home from China that Chinese pupils learn that North Korea won the war with help from the PLA. Laura, official Chinese history has been updated and now acknowledges that North Korea invaded the South, which drove back the invaders with help from the US-led UN forces. Since Korea is still a divided country, we cannot say that the South won, but since the northern invasion was repulsed, it is absurb to claim that China and North Korea won.
This little part of Cyberspace here seems to have become the domain of the ignorant Chinese troll.
I wonder if this is part of the Chinese Northeastern project as well . . .
Sonagi,in fact,no country won in the Korea war.China can’t unite taiwan till now because of the korea war.we gave up taiwan at that time,so you know how important it was for China.But when the war broke out ,China had in the war for so many years,China was poor and weak,and America is so strong and rich ,and had nuclear weapons,it’s really hard for China,so I think we won.
Laura, your country sided with and supported a group of invaders who were pushed back to near where they started.
You lost.
And you should be ashamed, particularly given what has become of the people your country fought for, to be suggesing this was somehow a good thing.
Since China and Taiwan are separate, you can understand the pain of the Korean people, whose nation is divided. If your country had not aided the North, Korea would be united, prosperous, and free instead of divided into a developed, democratic South and an impoverished, oppressed North. You know about the Cultural Revolution, Laura. Well, North Koreans have been living in a Cultural Revolution of sorts since the end of the Korean War. Your country continues to help Kim Jong-il stay in power and oppress his people.
Jing, I think you are talking about Han’s Emperor Wu’s territory expansion into Gojoseon. Koreans say Gojoseon exist from 2000BC to at least 100 AD. With full control of Manchuria and North Korea. Gojoseon, according to Korean views, had Pyong Yang set up even before the Han Chinese invaded. Unlike what you say.
Han Chinese’s terriotry expansions into Manchuria and North Korea was partial !
They did hold on to a length running from China to Pyong Yang for 400 years, competing with Gojoseon remnants and Goguryo. This can be roughly pictured by looking at any Koei produced Romance of the Three Kingdoms game.
Something else to think about, Laura. You said, “China can’t unite Taiwan until now.” Why is that? Why don’t the people of Taiwan want to reunite with mainland China? When Taiwan was ruled by dictators, the peoples of Taiwan and China were not free to visit each other, but now, there are more and more exchanges. Many, many Taiwanese have been to mainland China and can see the real China for themselves, and the island still does not recognize the authority of Beijing. Why is this? What is the real obstacle to reunification?
“It seems like most of the people here don’t have a good impession about China.”
If China cuts off oil going into NK and let KJI regime collapse, which will happen in six months from the cutoff date, I will have a very good impression on China.
But, China will not do it. With its constant ambition on Taiwan and secret manipulation of NK nuke crisis, anyone can see China is dirty.
China and the Chinese people are funking dirty lot. Xi shows what the Chinese are really like.
“Xi shows what the Chinese are really like.” Baduk, regardless of Xi’s comments the gross generalizations are not appreciated. The government and many people in China have issues as you say, yet each individual is due their own opinion and is solely responsible for their beliefs. They are not all the same. The very undemocratic Chinese government doesn’t recognize that, I would think you would.
Actually Xi is a great new comer. Many foreigners will suddenly realize they are xi as well. Some of Xi logics are used by some posters here to attack Koreans to be “ugly, stupid and degenerate” people.
Some white folks would make fun of black people in the room but once a fully-costumed KKK member walks in, they suddenly become so polite to black folks.
Xi is welcome here. He serves as a designated racist.
and if any foreigners do so they should be similarly reminded of their erros. Unless some effort is made to distinguish characteristics past the kinds of generalizations being made, why should I not consider such an affronting generalization as “the Chinese people are funking dirty lot” as made by the “designated racist.” I’m not saying you are racist but it would be nice to see a bit more caution when lumping in 1.3 billion people with Xi and his/her/its’ ilk.
belay my last, erros=errors…bit of a freudian slip there…
Why don’t China just leave Taiwan alone? Why does it always threaten Taiwan? Can the Taiwanese make up their own mind? What is this bullying and threats?
About NK as well. Why not let NK open up? KJI is a puppet of China. If China tells KJI to receive international food help, KJI will open up the country tomorrow.
The government represents people. The Chinese people must wake up and overthrow the present Communist form of government and elect a free and democratic form of government. Why not do that? Because, people are backward.
China needs changing. Their backward ways are hurting many people in the world, including Koreans.
Ok, that’s an awful lot better than saying “Chinese people are funking dirty lot.”
Yes the structure as a whole needs changing, desperately and many Chinese people are aware of this, but frankly they do not have the full support (only sympathy which counts for crap) of foreign governments. Just as many are content to maintain the status quo division in Korea, many governments and world leaders are content to see the Chinese government continue as is rather than risk the unknown of significant changes in China.
Personally, I think China is headed into a full scale class conflict between yuppie party leaders and the left-behind rural folk who have been sacrificed at the altar of state-sponsored/directed capitalism. The change is going to happen from the inside whether foreign governments help or not.
I think we need to respect any country and its people, and the “ugly, stupid and degenerate people” appears in any place where exist human beings. We need more understanding and communicate. but not attack them.
“The government represents people. The Chinese people must wake up and overthrow the present Communist form of government and elect a free and democratic form of government. Why not do that? Because, people are backward”
I agree some of what you said but it’s too hard,at least now~ and you also have to realize China is not like US,we have different culture and backgounds,maybe you can’t understand this,Chinese people get used to take things as we are,coz’ at least we live peacely. it seems a little difficult 4 me to explain to you clearly~U know my English…
But I’m sure that China will become more freely and reform more one day~
well,I really want to say more but I have to go to bed~
it’s 3:17a.m now in China~
I have to prepare 4 my exams at the end of this term.
bye~
I wonder why my comments were all deleted?
>O
Don’t take it personally, Yue. The anti-spammer sometimes traps comments even from regulars like me. Robert checks the spam trap and it looks like he already posted your comments.
Yes, about that, Sonagi—-You’ve now been caught in two anti-spammer programs, which is a bit odd. I have a lot more control over this program, however, so I should be able to figure out a way to keep your comments from getting trapped. It will take a little time, however.
Baduk,
It puts smile on my face to see you cry racism. Maybe you don’t remember how racist some Gaoli Bangzis like you, Zhangfei, Koshibo can be. Yes, China and Chiense people are the origin of every Korean problem. Whenever there is some problem between US or Korea, you will quickly divert the issue to China and the real problem will not be discussed. How tupical. I am happy to drive Gaoli dogs like you even more crazy. Unfortunately, the world doesn’t revolve around Korea. Look at how the whole stupid Bangzi country react when the KOrean team is kicked out of World UP. That’s why people don’t want to deal with you since your people are not capable of faults. You are always right, Northeastern China is your rightful land to claim. Korean people has been bullied and wronged throughout history and is still treated unfairly by the world. Why can’t you see that Korea cannot have its way all the time? But hey why bother? Why am I wasting my words on you? You Bangzi people will never understand.
Xi wrote:
Yes, China and Chiense people are the origin of every Korean problem.
Not every Korean problem. But certainly China is a major factor in many problems related to North Korea.
I am happy to drive Gaoli dogs like you even more crazy.
Nope, that’s not racist.
I’m trying to figure out if your thoughts are for real or if you are the creation of someone in the US trying to make Chinese look racist and stupid.
Unfortunately, the world doesn’t revolve around Korea.
And that’s a good thing, ‘cuz the days would be really long and it would get really, really hot here. The world’s entire environmental system would be thrown off whack.
Look at how the whole stupid Bangzi country react when the KOrean team is kicked out of World UP.
Yeah, 300 arrests and counting. Why, it’s enough to really smear Korea’s reputa… oh, wait it was some other nationality. I guess unless Koreans start actually getting seriously violent, no one is going to waste memory-forming brain cells on the idiotic misdeeds of screaming netizens and a lone pants dropper.
That’s why people don’t want to deal with you since your people are not capable of faults.
Indeed this is true. Too many Koreans are incapable of acknowledging that Korea may be partly or wholly to blame for a given problem in which the country might be involved. Unfortunately, this is not a club with few members. China is one of them.
But hey why bother? Why am I wasting my words on you? You Bangzi people will never understand.
Heh, heh. “You people.” Well, you’re never going to be president of the United States now.
Davelee,
“pawi, you sound very pro-korean and anti-everyone else. being overly pro-korean is actually kind of bad, because it makes you look narrow minded. imo, the best way to go about is to play the middle road, be friendly to all, so that korea may benefit from all relations. that is a true pro-korean.”
Agreed.
WJK,
“talk about sneaky. Tang allies with Silla, and offers to help unify Korea. Tang destroys Paekchae, takes all valuables, and set up what are supposed to be permanent military bases. Tang destroys Koguryo with Shilla, and set up what are supposed to be permanent military bases. Then, Tang and Shilla go to war. Shilla only covers up to Pyong Yang and southward. Loses all else. But, this war and achievement is artificially glorified in Korean history, because it was written by pro Shilla forces. When in reality, any idiot can see that Shilla lost a ton of land, and only consisted of present day South Korea plus Pyong Yang and a little bit around it.
Tang is sneaky. The Chinese were sneaky. Shilla Korea was stupid beyond belief.”
While I agree that the Silla “unification” was no genuine unification and ultimately hurt Korea, your harangue against Silla is also profoundly ahistorical.
I doubt Silla looked at the world from the perspective of “Greater Korea.” From their perspective, Koguryo was a menacing enemy nation, an enemy nation it could not cope with except through the help of Tang.
What do you seriously expect them to have done, given that Silla didn’t have the strength to stave off Koguryo and even Baekjae? Just submit to Koguryo, because that would be better for the future Korea?
Further, you ignore the fact that Kim Choon-choo did take a very perilous journey to Koguryo for an alliance and was turned down by Yeon Gae-so-mun!
Davelee,
“and as for the korguryeo dramas in the making, this is only following the trend of new history dramas. for the longest time, the history dramas lacked new flavor and content, every show was about the Chosun dynasty. korguryeo dramas are among the new storylines that are trying to refresh the history drama genre. sure, it comes at quite the timing with the whole conflict with china, and sure it may stir up controversy, but it is only to refresh the boring history genre. now they are making more storylines and more varying topics aside from just the Chosun storyline. Koguryeo is just one of these new storylines.”
This is naive.
The makers of several of these dramas (the maker of “Yon Gae-so-mun” being most vociferous among them) have explicitly said that they are concentrating on Koguryo as a reaction to CHina’s Northeast Project.
Thanks, Sonagi. But I am afraid that I am an old-timer at the Hole, and no young buck. I haven’t posted much recently because I’ve had pneumonia and its after effects for some 4 months. Worse yet, I am afraid that I too am more than capable of the infamous Korean penchant for over-the-top pronouncements a la Baduk
Won Joon Choe,
Many people, including Koreans and non-Koreans, called me “over-the-top” when I wrote my observation on cloning business and Dr. Hwang.
About Korean history:
Everything you have heard or read is mostly one-sided information. Korean history has to be re-examined and verified by comparison study with Chinese history books and old Japanese history books.
Gokuryo, Backje and Shinra may be all fabrications. Including Gorye. Korean history books verifying each other do not count. They have to verified by “outside sources”, like Hamil’s record.
The Japanese, when they took over Korea, have changed much records and history. They may have “forged” or “edited” Korean history books.
Everything about Korean history is suspect. New comparison study with other countries’ records is needed to be done.
Baduk,
I am well aware that you’ve attained a near-celebrity status for your Hwang Woo-suk hunch. But the fact that you got one bizarre prediction right doesn’t make you Nostradamus.
Regarding Korean history, yes, I am well aware that what we learned as teens and pre-teens in Korean schools is unreliable. You are preaching to the converted.
Won Joon Choe wrote,
“While I agree that the Silla “unification” was no genuine unification and ultimately hurt Korea, your harangue against Silla is also profoundly ahistorical.
I doubt Silla looked at the world from the perspective of “Greater Korea.” From their perspective, Koguryo was a menacing enemy nation, an enemy nation it could not cope with except through the help of Tang.
What do you seriously expect them to have done, given that Silla didn’t have the strength to stave off Koguryo and even Baekjae? Just submit to Koguryo, because that would be better for the future Korea?
Further, you ignore the fact that Kim Choon-choo did take a very perilous journey to Koguryo for an alliance and was turned down by Yeon Gae-so-mun!
”
/WJK writes,
Mr. Won Joon Choe, at the very least Shilla should not have brought in the Chinese to destroy its own people. That’s a crime against the Korean people. It’s glorified in the Korean history books (which seem to be unreliable according to baduk), because Shilla forces wrote it hundreds of years later in Koryo period.
Furthermore, why do you think Yun Gae So Moon told Kim Choon Choo “no” to the alliance? Maybe because Kim Choon Choo betrayed Baekjae in the Baekjae-Shilla alliance that equalized against Koguryo !
What was Yun Gae So Moon supposed to do? Ally with someone who’ll stab you in the back? This deed of Kim Choon Choo is also glorified as one who saw the future ahead, and forsake little things for the greater good. Bull shit. That’s the winner’s version of history.
And, I stress that Han China never had full control of Manchuria nor North Korea. They competed with other forces (including Koguryo) in the area for 400 years as Lelang, “Nang Nang”. Pyong Yang was founded by Gojoseon, built up and developed by Lelang.
I would call it more than a hunch. I have a master’s degree in biophysical chemistry. My thesis was titled, “Rho enzyme inhibition of transcription”. Do you know anything about developmental biology?
I followed the announcement of Dolly(another lie) and then Dr.Hwang about his “amazing” discovery.
You are a typical Korean. Do some research before you put down a person, be he a Korean or a non-Korean. Respect other person.
Your automatic assumption of Korean “dirty dealings” on soccer success sickens me. Yes, you are a product of your generation.
I am a little bit younger than you (not much) but I respect other Koreans. I assume you have children. How do they take your attitude?
I am a Christian. And, there are many Christians, good Christians, in Korea. Maybe you should examine the Bible. You may not have many days left.
Somehow, I highly doubt that Shilla conspired with China to kill Shilla people. The only way Koguryo and Paekche were ‘Shilla’s people’ would be if you buy into the whole nationalist mythology of a unified proto-Korea that broke up into the three smaller kingdoms. Even then, the different nations hardly comprised ‘one people’ anymore. After all, they were separated by hundreds of years of history. It would be sort of analogous to the claim by some Germans in WWII that their war was a just one because they were reuniting the Empire of Charlemagne.
This is a good place to start. (www.intouch.org)
http://ww2.intouch.org/site/pp.....;b=1013839
Baduk, weren’t you the guy who said that “Shilla” actually got its name from the Biblical “Shiloh”, or was that some other Kooky Kor-Am Kristian?
No.
I am of the opinion that Shilla never existed. Other conjectures include:
1)All Koreans came from China and Manchuria and mixed with Mongolians when they ruled the region.
2) No separate identity as Koreans existed before the Japanese take over.
3)The Chosun dynasty’s founder, Lee Sungye, was a Chinese.
4) “Wang” is not a king. It is a title for a regional administrator.
5) Koreans were happy to be part of the Chinese empire before the Japanese takeover.
Of course, many of these conjectures need more evidences. And, I may change my mind after more discussions with pundits.
I am not advocating that Koreans go back to be a part of new Chinese empire. On the contrary, I like Koreans staying close to the US.
There is a theory that Koreans are one of the lost tribes of the Jews. I am not certain. It does not matter, one way or the other. Christians can come from both the Jews and the Gentiles.
Thanks, that is interesting.
“The U.S. ought to send a clear message on censorship, piracy, human trafficking, and human rights to China by revoking its MFN (Most Favored Nation) trading status, and knock China back into the Stone Age.”
Remort, the US can’t even take care of Iraq, what makes you think they can knock countries like the PRC back into the stone age?
“If Goguryo was part of Chinese history, what sense does it make that the Sui Dynasty attacked it?” wjk
Hmmm, throughout history numerous Chinese states have been known to attack each other, such as the three kingdoms (Wei, Shu and Wu). The fact that Sui attacked Koguryo itself does not repudiate the Chinese claim.
“earliest bird bones found in china prove birds are chinese.’ wen shao bing, professor at bohai u.
‘we are the middle country. we’re the most beatiful people on earth!’ ching chong chang, chinaman
‘these kinds of things are good for america.’ pawi, the real american ”
Every country has its fair share of lunatics, so does China. And Korea. Ching chong chang, the chinaman? Pawi sounds like a typical ignorant and ugly American to me.
Juchechosunmanse wrote
““If Goguryo was part of Chinese history, what sense does it make that the Sui Dynasty attacked it?” wjk
Hmmm, throughout history numerous Chinese states have been known to attack each other, such as the three kingdoms (Wei, Shu and Wu). The fact that Sui attacked Koguryo itself does not repudiate the Chinese claim. ”
/ WJK writes, Wei, Shu, Wu was not representative of what counts as “unified China”. 3 kingdoms after all, is it not?
“Pawi sounds like a typical ignorant and ugly American to me. “
Pawi is an ethnic Korean who loves the motherland and has little affection for the country in which he resides.
I’m just saying it’s not Han Chinese land. Han attacked Gojoseon to destroy Gojoseon, who held it for 2000 years according to Korean history. Han got a slim strait of it for 400 years, and for most of its history, it was held by Manchurians, Khitan, etc from thence forth. If it was truly part of Chinese land, you’d see the great wall covering all of it. It’s not part of “China proper” by any historic definition. It became part of the PRC because Qing had it.
@Juchechosunmanse: “Every country has its fair share of lunatics, so does China. And Korea. Ching chong chang, the chinaman? Pawi sounds like a typical ignorant and ugly American to me.”
I like how you excoriate Pawi for making a negative generalization and then make one yourself.
Baduk The Hypocrite says:
“I would call it more than a hunch. I have a master’s degree in biophysical chemistry…
You are a typical Korean. Do some research before you put down a person, be he a Korean or a non-Korean. Respect other person.”
First, saying that your prediction that Dr. Hwang will turn out to be a fraud was based on a “hunch” is no serious insult–no matter what your scientific qualifications.
You did not have inside information, and plenty of more competent geneticists than you were swindled by Dr. Hwang as well.
Second, the fact that you are so indignant because I supposedly insulted you is oh so ironic, given that you have called me a “banana” and confidently predicted that “Your children will spit on your face” in our very first interaction–unprovoked.
(see post #36)
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/...../#comments
Perhaps it is YOU, not I, who is a “typical Korean”:Hyperventilating when others do them “wrong” (even when the wrong is imagined) but blithely forgetful of the wrongs he has done to others.
Since you are so fond of biblical imagery (and have a penchant for threatening others with fire and brimstones) and I too am a rather avid reader of the bible, here’s a thought for you:
“You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
WJK says:
“Mr. Won Joon Choe, at the very least Shilla should not have brought in the Chinese to destroy its own people. That’s a crime against the Korean people. It’s glorified in the Korean history books (which seem to be unreliable according to baduk), because Shilla forces wrote it hundreds of years later in Koryo period.
Furthermore, why do you think Yun Gae So Moon told Kim Choon Choo “no” to the alliance? Maybe because Kim Choon Choo betrayed Baekjae in the Baekjae-Shilla alliance that equalized against Koguryo !
What was Yun Gae So Moon supposed to do? Ally with someone who’ll stab you in the back? This deed of Kim Choon Choo is also glorified as one who saw the future ahead, and forsake little things for the greater good. Bull shit. That’s the winner’s version of history.”
I had a long response written before I responded to Baduk’s ridiculous rantings, but either my ISP or Marmot’s site ate it. (I keep forgetting to save if I am writing a long post.) Now I don’t have the energy nor the patient to re-assemble that post. So to be succinct:
We do not disagree as much as you think. I have already agreed that Silla’s unification was no genuine “unification” of the Three Kingdoms, and it damaged more than helped Korea in the long run. I will also agree with you here that the history of the Three Kingdoms we learned as teenagers in Korea is a defective, “winner’s history,” most likely biased toward Silla. For instance, anyone who knows anything about ancient Korean history knows that Kim Bu-sik’ “Sam-guk Sa-gi”–which is the cornerstone of much Korean historiography regarding the Three Kingdoms–is hagiographic toward folks like Kim Yu-sin and at the same time unduly harsh and dismissive of someone like Yeon Gae-so-mun.
So we disagree on a single point really in the midst of all the agreements: You cannot blame Silla for inviting the Tang because they did not think of the Koguryo people (or the Baek-jae people) as one of their own race. Koguryo and Silla did not even share the same language! You are projecting our own views of the unified Korean race back into some 1350 years ago. And that’s not fair.
Blame Silla for being weak; but don’t blame them for betraying then- nonexistent Korean “min-jok.”
Won Joon,
Baduk insulted you, but there’s no need to get angry. Everyone here knows he’s a crazy cat, and hopefully, nobody thinks he’s a typical anything.
Zonath,
You said what I wanted to say without the FoBby verbosity that plagues my writing.
Kudos!
Mr. Won Joon Choe, kudos to you.
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[...] I know I’m way behind the times on this subject as it was already brought up at the Marmot’s Hole weeks ago, but I’d like to put out a call for people’s thoughts on the recent flurry of new historical dramas in South Korea on the Koguryŏ kingdom. I’d be fascinated to know what any of our readers and contributors who are currently in Korea make of MBC’s ‘Jumong‘ and SBS’s ‘Yeongaesomun‘ from either a historical or dramatic point of view. [...]