Comments on: Chinese, Korean Americans being kept out of U.S. government agencies? http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/ Korea... in Blog Format Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:56:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Brendon Carr http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/#comment-38716 Brendon Carr Sat, 17 Jun 2006 02:07:02 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3043#comment-38716 At any rate, with respect to the security-clearance issue, Chinese-Americans and Korean-Americans are disadvantaged by factors other than just "skin color". It's fun to claim racism around every corner, sure, but the truth is that social factors are also at play. Security clearances require the US government to "vet" the background of the person being granted the clearance -- Korea, especially, is a society opaque to the usual means of gathering information. At any rate, with respect to the security-clearance issue, Chinese-Americans and Korean-Americans are disadvantaged by factors other than just “skin color”. It’s fun to claim racism around every corner, sure, but the truth is that social factors are also at play. Security clearances require the US government to “vet” the background of the person being granted the clearance — Korea, especially, is a society opaque to the usual means of gathering information.

]]> By: Brendon Carr http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/#comment-38693 Brendon Carr Fri, 16 Jun 2006 23:22:27 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3043#comment-38693 <blockquote>a fanouk in the Navy? say its not so…that’ll keep u from getting a clearance (if u tell)</blockquote> I know. This was at the height of the Clinton-era "gays in the military" hullaballoo. Strangely, even though we all knew this kid was a homosexual, the world didn't come crashing down.

a fanouk in the Navy? say its not so…that’ll keep u from getting a clearance (if u tell)

I know. This was at the height of the Clinton-era “gays in the military” hullaballoo. Strangely, even though we all knew this kid was a homosexual, the world didn’t come crashing down.

]]> By: NotLearningCantonese http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/#comment-38657 NotLearningCantonese Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:27:39 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3043#comment-38657 <I>although, even then I’d be curious to see a Uighur scientist in a politically sensitive position in China.</I> Well, probably about as many as there are Mexican nuclear scientists in the US. For many of the same reasons, too. Though China's deputy head of the PLA Airforce is an ethnic Korean (Li Yongtai) --- he was born in a Korean-dominated village in Jilin, IIRC. Though the US has Eric Shinseki, Colin Powell, etc. Hell, the US even had Brigadier-General Eisenhower during WWII. And of course, the US is ahead in terms of pure foreign-born members of government and the military ... though China does have a few Russian NPC delegates. although, even then I’d be curious to see a Uighur scientist in a politically sensitive position in China.
Well, probably about as many as there are Mexican nuclear scientists in the US. For many of the same reasons, too.

Though China’s deputy head of the PLA Airforce is an ethnic Korean (Li Yongtai) — he was born in a Korean-dominated village in Jilin, IIRC. Though the US has Eric Shinseki, Colin Powell, etc. Hell, the US even had Brigadier-General Eisenhower during WWII.

And of course, the US is ahead in terms of pure foreign-born members of government and the military … though China does have a few Russian NPC delegates.

]]> By: R. Elgin http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/#comment-38642 R. Elgin Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:51:47 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3043#comment-38642 Sonagi, white guys and Communists are out, Asians and the PRC are in. You've got to keep up with the times :-) Sonagi, white guys and Communists are out, Asians and the PRC are in.

You’ve got to keep up with the times :-)

]]> By: Sonagi http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/#comment-38639 Sonagi Fri, 16 Jun 2006 14:40:10 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3043#comment-38639 After Robert Kim got a hero's welcome in South Korea, I decided, out of curiosity, to see if ethnic background was a factor in espionage cases. I don't have stats, but I did notice that most of the big profile cases involved native-born men of European ancestry who sold out their country for money or sex. Four examples of white American men whose acts of treason did far more damage than Robert Kim are Edward Howard, Robert Hansson, and the Walker father and son duo. For a complete list of espionage cases from the last thirty years, click here: http://www.dss.mil/training/espionage/ After Robert Kim got a hero’s welcome in South Korea, I decided, out of curiosity, to see if ethnic background was a factor in espionage cases. I don’t have stats, but I did notice that most of the big profile cases involved native-born men of European ancestry who sold out their country for money or sex. Four examples of white American men whose acts of treason did far more damage than Robert Kim are Edward Howard, Robert Hansson, and the Walker father and son duo. For a complete list of espionage cases from the last thirty years, click here: http://www.dss.mil/training/espionage/

]]> By: MrChips http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/#comment-38635 MrChips Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:51:35 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3043#comment-38635 a fanouk in the Navy? say its not so...that'll keep u from getting a clearance (if u tell) a fanouk in the Navy? say its not so…that’ll keep u from getting a clearance (if u tell)

]]> By: Brendon Carr http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/#comment-38630 Brendon Carr Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:57:29 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3043#comment-38630 Back when I held a clearance, we had one guy who used to run off by himself at night. Turned out he wasn't a spy, he was a fag (that's also why he had so many soldiers calling our Navy barracks, while the rest of us had no Army friends at all). The same indicators can point to different conclusions. Back when I held a clearance, we had one guy who used to run off by himself at night. Turned out he wasn’t a spy, he was a fag (that’s also why he had so many soldiers calling our Navy barracks, while the rest of us had no Army friends at all). The same indicators can point to different conclusions.

]]> By: MrChips http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/#comment-38620 MrChips Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:49:54 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3043#comment-38620 belay my last, conract = contract belay my last, conract = contract

]]> By: MrChips http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/#comment-38619 MrChips Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:48:30 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3043#comment-38619 <b>"all thanks to secretly taken measures by the Bush administration..."</b> I like these kinds of statements. Begs the question of how it became known to the author. The administration doesn't need any secret measures to make it difficult for naturalized citizens to obtain clearances. It's difficult enough for small town white Americans to put up with the time delay for secret clearances let alone SCI clearances for anyone with experience living abroad. With over 500,000 clearances being investigated per year it just makes sense to investigate those whose backgrounds are more accessible. There is a limit to how much DSS will spend on any given clearance. Industrial clearances are a slightly different animal but they are much more restrictive in nature since parent agencies have less administrative/disciplinary control over conract workers. The more pressing problem I think is when an individual investigating agent isn't able to gather enough information and simply takes a risk in approving the clearance. The agents do have the lion's share of authority over what gets approved and what doesn't. IOW, the nature of investigations is prohibitive to people from a place like China or Korea. If it costs too much they're just gonna deny the clearance. Perhaps Mr. Son Chung-mu favors affirmative action for clearances. Well, he's gonna have to get used to disappointment. “all thanks to secretly taken measures by the Bush administration…”

I like these kinds of statements. Begs the question of how it became known to the author.

The administration doesn’t need any secret measures to make it difficult for naturalized citizens to obtain clearances. It’s difficult enough for small town white Americans to put up with the time delay for secret clearances let alone SCI clearances for anyone with experience living abroad. With over 500,000 clearances being investigated per year it just makes sense to investigate those whose backgrounds are more accessible. There is a limit to how much DSS will spend on any given clearance. Industrial clearances are a slightly different animal but they are much more restrictive in nature since parent agencies have less administrative/disciplinary control over conract workers. The more pressing problem I think is when an individual investigating agent isn’t able to gather enough information and simply takes a risk in approving the clearance. The agents do have the lion’s share of authority over what gets approved and what doesn’t.

IOW, the nature of investigations is prohibitive to people from a place like China or Korea. If it costs too much they’re just gonna deny the clearance. Perhaps Mr. Son Chung-mu favors affirmative action for clearances. Well, he’s gonna have to get used to disappointment.

]]> By: spies and lies at http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/06/16/chinese-korean-americans-being-kept-out-of-us-government-agencies/#comment-38607 spies and lies at Fri, 16 Jun 2006 08:59:18 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=3043#comment-38607 [...] Go read the latest post over at the Marmot’s, then come back. [...] [...] Go read the latest post over at the Marmot’s, then come back. [...]

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