> Where’s the balance?

Still yet to come, as the pendulum stops swinging so widely…

Yes, i would think WJK was only talking about 1948-53 or so in that reply.
If you include the Great Famine, Kim Il-sung & Jong-il are clearly way
ahead in the “murderous” field…

> This is what I wanted to do since long ago.

I hope you can do it someday!

> you talk pretty much like a college-educated Korean in his late 20s to early 40s

Don’t know if I should take that as a complement or an insult, as i’m a ‘white’ American approaching 50!

Sanshinseon, I can understand that things were probably often over the top propoganda during the years of military regimes in SK, but now the pendulum seems to have shifted in the complete opposite direction. Now, so many seem willing to beleive the best of NK and the worst about the US. Where’s the balance? It is fine to investigate possible US crimes, but ridiculous and against the best interests of SK to continue to demonize the best friend Korea has in the world.

Dear Sanshinseon, I’d probably disagree. If you are a Korean (and you talk pretty much like a college-educated Korean in his late 20s to early 40s), you might be influenced by the way these “anti-Communist” subjects were actually taught in the times you chooses to describe as “those fascist years” (IMHO, wrongly - but I would not go to this argument which will be useless). It indeed might be hysterical, but, of this practice, I know nothing. But I’ve read enough 국님윤리 textbooks of the 1960s, even supervised an MA thesis on this, to disagree with this statement. In spite of hostile and “non-academic” tone, they give a surprisingly good picture of North Korean socicety. Not theory, perhaps, but practice. Unfortunately, these cannot be said about what hacks from “말”, KTU and simular minded places produce nowadays.

QUOTE I wonder if by now any solid scholarship has been done on the Lee Seung-bok case and its government-sponsored cult, whether any aspect of the original story can be verified? END OF QUOTE

This is what I wanted to do since long ago. A good case study about how both Korean Left and Korean Right used, distorted, lied about what appears to be an “ordinary war crime” (have to be careful, since so much needs to be clarified about even the most basic facts in regard to Lee’s death).

QUOTE Lankov, I’ll buy that. Rhee was as bloody as Kim. END OF QUOTE

Dear WJK, In final count, no. By no means. You cannot even compare the murderous achievemtns of these two dictators. Even if you do not include the Korean War and Great Famine, Kim Il Sung is well, well ahead. If you do include these megadeaths, for which he is at least partially responsible, and take into account the relative popualtion sizes, he might be second only to Pol Pot in the entire world history of the 20th century. But somewhere between 1948 and 1951, due to a multitude of reasons Rhee’s supporters had many more opportunities to slaughter the Reds, at least in what is now South Korea. And they did not miss thess opportunities.

You can probably find a lot of stuff by reading about the Boer War. There was also a large “camp follower” culture during WWI, because the lines were so static. Once we get into more modern, fast-moving wars - and more modern morality - the culture has dropped off a lot. Of course, in battle areas world wide you can always find whore-houses and prostitutes. Even in, maybe especially in, places like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Korea and Japan actually share a lot of cultural similarities in this regard. Prostitution and sexual slave trading are rampant in both countries, and in fact, according to some studies, worse in Korea because of the comparative geographical ease of smuggling people in.

I just think that people should look to their own crap before they start yelling at other people about crap that was done a while ago. And I’m aiming this towards all sides of the argument.

And of course it’s not only governments that do this, but very much “civic
activist” groups also — going back to the origin of this topic, the reported
account of this alleged US massacre in Danyang (SUCH a pretty area) do sound
like they are quite exaggerated at the least…

I wonder if by now any solid scholarship has been done on the Lee Seung-bok
case and its government-sponsored cult, whether any aspect of the original
story can be verified? It might well be military/government propaganda created out of thin air like the Jessica Lynch case used to bolster American
public support in the first year of the Iraq adventure… or the “Kuwaiti
babies thrown out of their incubators onto the floor by Iraqi soldiers” BS
back in 1991… Or it might be all true, dunno if we’ll ever know.

All governments do this, most of the time when they want a war; wars are so
horrible and costly that may probably couldn’t be conducted without it.

Sanshinseon, I was one of those kids who learned about Lee Seung Bok.

Who reportedly said, “Na neun (I) Gong san dang (communist party) ee shil uh yo (hate)!”

Or ” I HATE the COMMUNISTS !”

Right after which, a North Korean soldier literally ripped this boy’s mouth open, and killed everyone.

I forget if Seung Bok said this after the soldiers murdered his parents first. I think they murdered his parents first, and after Seung Bok said this in rage, they tore his mouth with a knife to make him suffer and killed him. And they wiped out the whole family. Or maybe they left some young ones. It’s been a long time since this was compulsory reading in South Korean education.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this somehow got phased out by the Red Wave leaders now sitting in the Blue House.