Don’t think it will change a lot, but this is probably good news nonetheless.
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Al-Zarqawi killed
This entry was written by Robert Koehler, posted on June 8, 2006 at 5:33 pm, filed under Korea in the War on Terror. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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58 Comments
I’ll repeat what I wrote on my blog.
Burn in hell you piece of sh*t.
Allah be praised!
If anyone had it comin’ he was high on the shitlist.
I hope each and every one of his 72 virgins looks like Margaret Cho.
This is great news, if its true. The only negative is that he actually deserved a slow and painful death.
The asshole shoulda paid attention to the Quran, they’re not virgins - they’re raisins.
mook,
your comment is the kind that requires a bit of background. fill me in.
maybe they will be virgins, but his torture will be that they will stay virgins. He won’t be gettin’ any.
Evidently some scholars mistranslated “virgins” as “raisins” or somesuch. There were articles about it awhile back.
No matter, raisins already resemble Margaret Cho.
I don’t think that the raisins/virgins question has been settled linguistically. I do think there are decent historical reasons for the conventional interpretation: among other things, who in their right mind would invent a heaven with 72 raisins?
Anyway, good work! The odd thing about this is that just a few hours ago I read on Strategy Page (which I don’t always agree with, by the way), that “Zarqawi is scheduled for martyrdom.” He had recently become quite an embarassment even for Al-Qaeda.
“who in their right mind would invent a heaven with 72 raisins”
Someone who lives in an extremely arid and barren desert
dogbertt wrote:
I hope each and every one of his 72 virgins looks like Margaret Cho.
They’d all end up doing each other.
NathanB wrote:
I do think there are decent historical reasons for the conventional interpretation: among other things, who in their right mind would invent a heaven with 72 raisins?
Maybe it’s all meant as irony: this is what you get for being a literalist.
Good ones!
Humor aside, the whole raisins idea started with a German scholar who proposed that some passages from the Qur’an be read in light of Syriac, a cognate language. In Syriac, the word in question means something like “white (raisins).” Comparative Semitic linguistics (my background, although I never had a chance to take Syriac) is useful for teasing out solutions to problems with obscure words, but I think that, in this case, a literary analysis doesn’t leave any room for the raisins interpretation. In the first place, there is no need to reinterpret a perfectly good Arabic word as a Syriac one. Usually, it is Arabic that is used to interpret Syriac (which is much less known and analyzed), and not the other way around (although that would not be in principle wrong). Also, the word “hur” is attested a few other times in the Qur’an, where the context makes clear that it must refer to some kind of young women.
I probably shouldn’t have taken up so much space here, but so many people on the net have believed as gospel truth a possible interpretation which has yet to receive a scholarly consensus.
[W]ho in their right mind would invent a heaven with 72 raisins?
Thesemartyrs to the cause, for one. Watch out - they’re dangerous!
Smoke a turd in hell you sack of sh*t
As with Kim Il-sung and his son, Zarqawi’s death should be celebrated only after we confirm seeing the stake through his heart.
It’s all so Kwazi.
A good development. I am sure that victory is right around the corner, the enemy is on the run and the troops will all be home by Chrisstmas.
All that is needed is another 50,000 troops to bring about swift and final victory!
He’s a ruthless killer, for whom I can have no sympathy at all, and destroyed the lives of an untold magnitude.
Parade his head around on a stick and declare it a national holiday. I hope that Satan attends to him personally.
–Remort
personally think that, without having read the Quran, that raisins is an illogical EXCUSE by their religious people.
Men, go kill in the name of Allah, and you will get 72 raisins.
vs
Men, go kill in the name of Allah, and you will get 72 virgins.
This is a sexually restricted society by their religion, where I have observed people to never had girl friends, and suddenly meet one and marry one within 3 weeks.
I think the virgins idea appeals to young, impressionable men.
Raisins would have never been any kind of motivation. Unless these are some sort of super power granting raisins that give you some sort of super powers.
So who gets $25 million bounty? The pilots of this air raid mission? US air forces? Hmmm
yeah, so bush got the man he created. so what? you think the insurgents are finished now? keep dreaming.
how about those of you who supported this war stand up and admit that iraq is a failure and that you, once again, are wrong?
i know you won’t do that. why should you? you don’t pay any price for this war. you get to sit in seoul and denigrate the poor folks who have the misfortune of being there. you denigrate the korean by complaining that he’s not dying. you denigrate the american by not standing up for him and demanding a pullout from the miasma you helped to create while you’re getting drunk in the land of the yemaek.
and you think you’re the patriotic one.
PAWIKIROGI-THE REAL AMERICAN.
pawikirogi:
The brave folks serving in Iraq to liberate the country are there by CHOICE (read: CHOICE), nobody is forcing them to be there, nor for them to fight for what they believe in. It’s a shame you can understand or accept this apparently.
The “dream” was to put a stop to Iraq bullying its neighbors, executing its citizens arbitrarily, and using weapons of mass destruction on its own people and in the region.
Get a grip man.
–Remort
An excerpt:
“Luxenberg’s chief hypothesis is that the original language of the Qur’an was not Arabic but something closer to Aramaic. He says the copy of the Qur’an used today is a mistranscription of the original text from Muhammad’s time, which according to Islamic tradition was destroyed by the third caliph, Osman, in the seventh century. But Arabic did not turn up as a written language until 150 years after Muhammad’s death, and most learned Arabs at that time spoke a version of Aramaic. Rereading the Paradise passage in Aramaic, the mysterious houris ["swelling breasts"] turn into raisins and fruit—much more common components of the Paradise myth.”
More here: http://www.religionnewsblog.co.....03797.html
So Raisins or Virgins? Who knows? I guess Paradise depends on ‘how hungry you’ve been’ and ‘what kind of hungry’ you are. But but if I were a true believer in the Quran or even just a Jihadi thug, indiscriminate murder wouldn’t be worth the gamble of that there Islamic Hell http://www.islam-watch.org/Sye.....icHell.htm. (By the way how do you hyperlink in Typepad?)
Pawrigoki, I’ve been much against this war, and Bush, from the beginning. I support the ousting of the Taliban in Afghanistan not only as payback for 9/11, but moreso because the Taliban were nasty little bastards who had it comin’. Who in their right mind would want to live under a system like that? I don’t think anyone here is saying yesterday’s announcement means an end to the violence. Hell, even Dubya can see that.
HansaraminVancouver,
I believe that members of the US armed forces cannot collect the bounty. It would go to whomever, if anyone, tipped the Americans or Iraqis on Z’s location.
Even if it is 72 virgins, wouldn’t you get tired of them after a while? Think about it, if each one lasted you 100 years (which would be a stretch) that’d still get you only 7200 years; not much of a dent in eternity, eh? On the bright side, you’d have plenty of time to get them up to speed on technique.
Imaging Zarqawi’s dismay when he finds out that psychobabbler/ignoramus/loser pawigirogi is one of those 72 virgins!
An interesting quote, Mook. I wonder if our scholarly rebel has been summarized correctly by that source: written Arabic certainly predates the Qur’an, and we have Old South Arabic inscriptions going back to before the time of Jesus. (It is true that the present script was standardized after the time of Mohammed, however.)
Another article on the same scholar, with reference to Syriac, can be found at the Guardian. As is usual with the media on questions of ancient history, they tend to overplay the novel interpretations by “creative” scholars. The idea that whoever composed the Qur’an, whether orally or in written form, drew on earlier traditions is certainly right; that the present Qur’an is a wholesale transcription from Syriac or Aramaic is, I think, highly unlikely.
I’ve read that there are precious few pre-Islamic examples of Arabic writing.
Well, Dogbert, it all depends on what one means by “few” and by “Arabic.” Certainly, the vast majority of textual attestation is post-sixth century, but, as I mentioned, there are Old South Arabic inscriptions going back to the first millennium BCE (or BC, if you prefer that designation). The Arabic of the Qur’an actually descends from a northern variant of Arabic, called “Mudari Arabic”; the earliest text of this branch of the language family, I believe, dates to the fourth century CE (or AD), and thus predates Mohammed. I believe that the next exemplar of Mudari Arabic dates to the 5th century, still predating Mohammed.
Part of the problem is that the Arabic societies were not highly literate, unlike the urban Aramaic speakers of the fertile crescent, so we don’t have as many records of their language as one might like. In this case, absence of literary remains should not be taken as absence of language.
I had actually forgotten this fact about Qur’anic Arabic being derived from the Northern Arabic (itself a member of the Southern branch of the Semitic family), and it is true that northern Arabic, in its early stages, was intertwined with Aramaic to some degree. (My studies were mostly confined to the Northwestern family of Semitic, including Hebrew, Ugaritic, Phoenician, although I do have a VERY little bit of experience with Imperial Aramaic and Modern Standard Arabic.)
Actually, remort, may US military members have had their elistments extended, against their will. They cannot leave if they want. We are seeing significant numbers of deserters here in Canada at the moment.
The bounty will be paid, apparently, to one of Al-Zarqawi’s band of merry men who turned him in. Goes to show the USA is finally getting some decent intel, which is the only way to win this kind of war.
With the big picture in mind, many US liberals are up to no good. They break a story in the Washington Post, breaking a story that US soldiers shot up civilians or they abused Iraqi prisoners.
Can’t this wait after the war? Why are they putting their beloved soldier’s necks on further danger by breaking such news?
They didn’t have a problem breaking news about bad things done by soldiers during World War 1, 2, and the Korean War. AFTER the war.
Is Russia waging a clean war on the Chechens? No, they’re not stupid enough to report everything during the war. Kind of protects their troops in the big picture of things, no?
What war is, was, will be clean? None. Soldiers get scared, and to survive the moment, they use what they have. Guns. And in many documented cases, their penises.
Liberals get emotional after 911, promising to enlist in the US armed forces, to shoot those bastards man-to-man. In reality, precious few of them even showed such courage. It’s closer to none.
They prefer to bitch and whine at home turf, where no attack on US soil has taken place since Sept 11, 2001. Enjoying the tax refunds and the improved economy, compared to 2001.
They create a US home environment where there is a shortage of new enlisting troops.
We are proud of our troops, they say. Bring our troops home, they say. Some of the same people who enlisted before the war to enjoy the benefits of coming out of the military. Now, they cry it’s an illegal war. They signed legal documents.
But they also insist that the government cut spending on the military and spend instead on healthcare. Gee, I think professional soldiers would have to look for new careers. I guess that’s none of their concerns. They’re proud of our troops.
They count each and every dead body from the war, but they refuse to put their necks on the line.
Those kind of people are responsible for US troops taking 2 or more trips to Iraq.
What? They hold elections in Kuwait, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia? What? Women are running for office in some cases? Did they do this before the Iraq War?
Oh, I forgot. Some Muslims say Democracy is not the answer for every nation. They themselves happen to live in the US, though.
wjk: “What war is, was, will be clean? None. Soldiers get scared, and to survive the moment, they use what they have. Guns. And in many documented cases, their penises.”
Not often you hear someone actually condone rape, even if in wartime.
No, you certainly don’t. But then again, what do you expect from Met fans?
He does have a point about the reporting, though. Not that I’m condemning the press for doing its job—it’s probably a sign of progress that the horrors of war are being reported better now than ever before. That being said, sometimes I wonder what would have happened if “The Greatest Generation” had come under the same kind of scrutiny during WWII. Christ, compared to the force we have in Iraq, the American armies that fought in Europe and the Pacific look like pillaging hordes. Would have loved to have seen CNN coverage of Guadalcanal and Operation Market Garden, too.
I agree with you Robert, but ‘fightin’ is fightin” and ‘rape is rape’ war or no war.
I don’t condone rape.
I don’t condone shooting civilians, either. I’m just saying don’t report it while the war is going on, especially against your own army.
But you are a Met fan.
yeah, that’s right. I’m a Met fan.
And apparently a proud one at that. The Mets have the second-best record in baseball as of today.
Test, couldn’t post from here last night…
“I don’t condone rape.”
Yes you do, and you did, you little prick.
And you support the Kremlin’s muting of the media.
Filthy arsehole.
Here’s a creative little music video:
Enjoy,
http://hotair.com/archives/top.....ike-remix/
Good, one son of a bitch is dead now. There’re thousands more sickos left to go. And btw, I can’t see many US efforts to chase Osama in Afghanistan/Pakistan or wherever in comparison to heavily guarding the Iraqi oild fields. Guess the have a more monetary orientated priority list. Yeah, the occupation of Iraq is expensive, therefore the civlian right-wing expats outcry to cut the military presence in Korea to throw them poor 2nd Infantry Division members in the Iraqi theater.
The brave folks serving in Iraq to liberate the country are there by CHOICE (read: CHOICE), Remort
Yeah, it’s true, they’re enlisted by choice. But how much choice did underprivileged Americans of lower classes really have to escape poverty? Ending up in the Army, staying in the ghetto block or landing in jail… any more choices? My view ist admittedly oversimplyfied, but quite frankly so is yours, Remort.
Sugar Shin knows very little about the all-volunteer military other than the tired tropes served up by the coastal media elites. Nobody gets the choice of jail or enlistment. And by “ghetto block” I guess he means the military is disproportionately black. It’s not. Especially not the combat arms specialties. Those are disproportionately white.
go back to school, Pyotr. Maybe your English teacher taught you to read into things too much. Prick.
I never quite understand why they want to fight the Americans at Iraq. I mean, just look at Iraq today a democracy. Democracy is what allows parties like Hamas to control Palestine and Iran to pursue nuclear weapons. Isn’t democracy great? Now that Iraq is a democracy, it is just a matter of time for a Iraq Hamas to come into power. Taliban-clone will make a comeback in Afganistan. I think this will happen and the beauty of it all is it will happen legally. In Malaysia, one of our Eastern state have been controled by a Islamic political party that requires men/female to queue up on different lanes at supermarket for the past 16 years. This is what the people want and they got in power legally. If Malaysia was not a democracy, this extremist party will never have a chance.
Many people mistakenly believe that democracy will create submissive governments like those in Japan or Korea. This is quite wrong. The reason is that in Islamic nations, there is a strong social cohesion through the Friday prayer mosque meetings. No matter what propaganda you try to feed the people through the national TVs or newspapers, they will get the real scoop during their weekly Friday prayers sermon. Then they will go to the polling booths and vote. This is different from Korea/Japan that lacks a weekly forum for the people to gather together and so they are easier to brainwash through the mass media.
Sugar Shin knows very little about the all-volunteer military other than the tired tropes served up by the coastal media elites. Brendon Carr
I trust the NYT more than the Stars & Stripes. Guess there’re also Americans out there who share my opinion about the recruitment and enlistment system in the US: http://rncwatch.typepad.com/co.....l_int.html
And by “ghetto block” I guess he means the military is disproportionately black. It’s not.Brendon Carr
“Ghetto block” was a metaphor for the quite high share of unerprivileged recruits in the volunteer army. I could have also typed “trailer park” or some place like that. Blacks, Latinos and Whites all belonging to the lower blue collar class. Not them nice suburban middle class members’ kids, who have the real choice to go to college, start a career in real life than on a battle field in the middle of nowhere and to show the recruiters the middle finger.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02.....wanted=all
Typical reaction from guys like you, Brendon: You know shit about America, so you’re dead wrong.
“Democracy is what allows parties like Hamas to control Palestine and Iran to pursue nuclear weapons. Isn’t democracy great?”
Alice had been looking over his shoulder with some curiosity. `What a funny watch!’ she remarked. `It tells the day of the month, and doesn’t tell what o’clock it is!’
`Why should it?’ muttered the Hatter. `Does your watch tell you what year it is?’
`Of course not,’ Alice replied very readily: `but that’s because it stays the same year for such a long time together.’
`Which is just the case with mine,’ said the Hatter.
Alice felt dreadfully puzzled. The Hatter’s remark seemed to have no sort of meaning in it, and yet it was certainly English. `I don’t quite understand you,’ she said, as politely as she could.
Trusting the New York Times more than Stars & Stripes on military issues is a foolish mistake. That’ll make you dead wrong. Nobody who writes for the New York Times has any military experience at all — no reporters, no editors. They’re too “elite” to have served. And they have an “Army Bad” prism through which they view the world and it distorts everything. Stars & Stripes is a military-funded independent newspaper for the military community, the reporters for which are almost always former servicemembers. Hmm. Which group is more knowledgeable about the issues relevant to the military?
I read your Indymedia report on how more enlistees are entering with “waivers” and how that’s supposedly a sign of the Army’s desperation. The thesis that a “waiver” means lowered standards, however, is wrong. What a waiver means is after an evaluation of all the facts, some condition which appeared to be disqualifying was eventually determined not to be disqualifying. Is it surprising that in a time when active combat is all-but-certain, the Army has to look harder for recruits?
Some — I’d bet most — waivers are in fact for medical reasons. I myself entered the Navy on a waiver — apparently I have a heart condition which disqualified me for entry, but after a year and a half of campaigning and additional testing (and complaints to my Congressman, etc.) the Navy agreed to take me. Strangely I didn’t drop dead during service and still haven’t. Still ticking.
As for me, I came from a fairly privileged suburb of St. Louis and chose to enlist in the Navy after dropping out of college (from boredom, mostly). The people I served with were predominately — although by no means exclusively (one guy was a Michigan grad) — from a slightly lower socio-economic background than I was. But one of my closest friends in the enlisted ranks was a trust-fund baby. We were the only ones who had the experience of other people coming over to pick up our homes when we were growing up.
My roommate for a time in the NCO barracks was an Air Force sergeant from the East St. Louis “ghetto blocks” whom I never would have chosen to live with except by random assignment; he was a good guy, though, and I am glad to have known him. He was so handsome and suave — a jet-black Billy Dee Williams type — that there were an awful lot of girls coming around looking for him who ended up spending some time with me (a poor substitute). His leftovers were something else. Let’s hear it for integration!
Of my contemporaries, one is now a high-ranking Embassy official in Sarajevo, another a mechanical engineer at Lockheed Martin in D.C., a third a prosecutor in Columbus, Ohio, and one more ended up a dot-com millionaire in San Francisco. A buddy of mine just retired from the Air Force and he’s teaching high school in Connecticut. And I’m a lawyer entering my tenth year of private practice here in Seoul. It doesn’t seem like we were all dead-enders.
What’s galling about the New York Times thesis of the poor, oppressed enlistee left with no choices other than the Army is its arrogance. The left is positively dripping with condescension for those dumb, poor bastards. Let’s assume Sugar Shin is right (he’s not) and the choices are staying the ghetto block, ending up in jail, or joining the Army. How is that tragic? Someone who climbs out of the gutter is not your inferior and you shouldn’t imagine you can “fix” his “problem”. (Interestingly, re-enlistments are at an all-time high. If these guys joined out of desperation, but now have a chance to flee at the end of their enlistments, why re-enlist?)
And I find it amusing that a Korean living in Germany lectures me about my knowledge of America.
The U.S. military is extremely selective now, and has been since the post-Vietnam era. You need to be in perfect shape to get in to the U.S. military, particularly for the elite forces, they are some bad ass dudes! I sleep much better knowing that they are fighting for our side.
By the way, please let me and the rest of the world know, what form of government is better than a democracy.
–Remort
“mahathir_fan
from United States your flag Jun 11th, 2006 at 1:55 am
I never quite understand why they want to fight the Americans at Iraq. I mean, just look at Iraq today a democracy. Democracy is what allows parties like Hamas to control Palestine and Iran to pursue nuclear weapons. Isn’t democracy great? Now that Iraq is a democracy, it is just a matter of time for a Iraq Hamas to come into power. Taliban-clone will make a comeback in Afganistan. I think this will happen and the beauty of it all is it will happen legally. In Malaysia, one of our Eastern state have been controled by a Islamic political party that requires men/female to queue up on different lanes at supermarket for the past 16 years. This is what the people want and they got in power legally. If Malaysia was not a democracy, this extremist party will never have a chance.
Many people mistakenly believe that democracy will create submissive governments like those in Japan or Korea. This is quite wrong. The reason is that in Islamic nations, there is a strong social cohesion through the Friday prayer mosque meetings. No matter what propaganda you try to feed the people through the national TVs or newspapers, they will get the real scoop during their weekly Friday prayers sermon. Then they will go to the polling booths and vote. This is different from Korea/Japan that lacks a weekly forum for the people to gather together and so they are easier to brainwash through the mass media.
”
–This may be true for the first few elections, but will people really listen to their imams and clerics, when they realize that they can vote out people whom are telling them outrageous things? Lining up male and female separately is one thing. But what about economic matters, social matters, rights of minority groups and such? You won’t find such a generous 100% backing by these people for whatever they say at the mosques. Not when they know they have collective power to overrule the religious “leaders”. And, when they start to question why with their religion they support dictators to tell them what to do and curb their freedoms. No system of government is better than a democracy. I think that has been proven since August 15, 1945.
So here is a thought….. Maybe now that the hens have come to roost in Canada, The Canadians will do their fair share of the dirty work? No, they don’t have the balls or the stomach.
Typical reaction from guys like you, Brendon: You know shit about America, so you’re dead wrong. me
And I find it amusing that a Korean living in Germany lectures me about my knowledge of America. Bredon
I wasn’t lecturing you, man. I felt, that you were telling me, that I know shit about the US and that I was dead wrong. Should have put that sentence in quotation marks, but that would have been misleading too, cause you never typed the sentence in your comment before.
Stars & Stripes is a military-funded independent newspaper for the military community, the reporters for which are almost always former servicemembers. Brendon
How could be a military-funded newspaper independent? Are you kidding? And in my personal opinion the NYT has more independence and expertise in objective coverage than Stars & Stripes. Your personal experiences in puncto sociological backround of volunteers in the armed forces are countered by experiences of other ex-military guys (see the comment section of my blog-link above).
(Interestingly, re-enlistments are at an all-time high. If these guys joined out of desperation, but now have a chance to flee at the end of their enlistments, why re-enlist?) Brendon
Is that info true? The Army raised their enlistement bonuses and the enlistement age from 35 to 40 at the beginning of the year due to missing enlistment and re-enlistment targets, as far as I know.
Sugar Shin: My guess is you know a lot about America. The way you write, your “software” appears to be American, albeit a misguidedly lefty, America-worst version I know pretty well. My guess is you went to a “top” American university. But like a lot of Americans, you know shit about the military yet have a lot of (incorrect) opinions about the institution.
Yes. Re-enlistments are at an all-time high. Retention rates for all the services are significantly over the plan. New entries are depressed. Soldiers and Marines return from Afghanistan and Iraq and re-enlist, sometimes en masse, because they know the score and believe in what they’re doing. People who only get their information from the teevee have another view: They don’t join.
The reason the enlistment bonuses and enlistment ages have been raised is that without a steady influx of privates, the force structure gets skewed.
Here is something more on topic regarding the recently dead shmuck:
http://www.boingboing.net/2006....._gott.html
It seems that Zarqawi could have been killed long before now however the current administration in America found him to be more useful as an excuse to prosecute their work in Iraq.
I wonder what they’ll do with his body.
–Remort