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	<title>Comments on: Update on Seongnam English Town incident</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Korean Teachers Union blames English camp sexual assaults on &#8216;unchecked&#8217; foreign teachers at The Marmot&#8217;s Hole</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/#comment-36844</link>
		<dc:creator>Korean Teachers Union blames English camp sexual assaults on &#8216;unchecked&#8217; foreign teachers at The Marmot&#8217;s Hole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 02:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2918#comment-36844</guid>
		<description>[...] Gyeonggi-do&#8217;s English camps fired back, beginning with what should be completely obvious from both the Seongnam and Ansan sexual assaults&#8212;both incidents were allegedly committed by non-native speakers, i.e., Koreans. The Seongnam incident was allegedly committed by a naturalized U.S. citizen who spoke Korean as his first language and was designated a &#8220;Korean&#8221; instructor [of English] by the camp. The Ansan incident was allegedly committed by a straight-up Korean. Accordingly, the camps explained that while they were quite apologetic for the incidents, to blame them on &#8220;unchecked foreigners&#8221; was a distortion of the facts (the Korean Teachers Union? Distorting facts? Never!). They also claimed that foreign instructors are examined very closely before being hired. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gyeonggi-do&#8217;s English camps fired back, beginning with what should be completely obvious from both the Seongnam and Ansan sexual assaults&#8212;both incidents were allegedly committed by non-native speakers, i.e., Koreans. The Seongnam incident was allegedly committed by a naturalized U.S. citizen who spoke Korean as his first language and was designated a &#8220;Korean&#8221; instructor [of English] by the camp. The Ansan incident was allegedly committed by a straight-up Korean. Accordingly, the camps explained that while they were quite apologetic for the incidents, to blame them on &#8220;unchecked foreigners&#8221; was a distortion of the facts (the Korean Teachers Union? Distorting facts? Never!). They also claimed that foreign instructors are examined very closely before being hired. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ::  Seouliva  ::</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/#comment-36681</link>
		<dc:creator>::  Seouliva  ::</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 May 2006 03:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2918#comment-36681</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Korea vs. ???...&lt;/strong&gt;

Weekend Report Met a university friend of the gf's; instantly was my favorite of hers so far. With most of her friends, I felt I was being quickly judged as an error on the gf's part, but this girl seemed......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Korea vs. ???&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Weekend Report Met a university friend of the gf&#8217;s; instantly was my favorite of hers so far. With most of her friends, I felt I was being quickly judged as an error on the gf&#8217;s part, but this girl seemed&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Another sexual assault case at an English Village at The Marmot&#8217;s Hole</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/#comment-36493</link>
		<dc:creator>Another sexual assault case at an English Village at The Marmot&#8217;s Hole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 May 2006 03:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2918#comment-36493</guid>
		<description>[...] When it rains, it pours. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] When it rains, it pours. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: usinkorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/#comment-36486</link>
		<dc:creator>usinkorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 May 2006 00:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2918#comment-36486</guid>
		<description>I have had two accusations that I know about.

One was a nut in Korea.  A early 40s something female.  

The day after her first day at our school, one of the other females she was rooming with demanded one or the other be removed.  She said the woman was "crazy" and she wouldn't put up with it.  She even agreed to move into the guys apartment to get away from her, and the other female teacher there agreed the woman was not right in the head.

I thought crazy was probably strong from what I saw in the coming weeks.

Until......the woman was talking to our superviser (Korean), and then she left after the Korean walked away from her.  Then the nut came back in screaming that the Korean had better do something about this, and she wasn't going to take that kind of harassment, and then she started yelling about how, "YOu know I'm talking to you" and a lot more stuff before she stormed out.  

Since there were only two men in the office, I looked at the other guy at his desk and said, "Was she talking to you?" at the same time he said it to me.

The Korean told us the woman had accused me of "sexually harassing" her.

I had not spoken more than 1 sentence to the woman per week the month she was with us until she thankfully did the midnight run a couple of weeks later.

---------the other time was in college------

I went out with this girl I shared a couple of classes with one time.  
I decided we wouldn't work out as a couple and it wasn't worth another date, but we were friends.  

It was a small college.   About 700 to 1000 students and we were both English majors.  So, we ran into each other all the time in the department, library, and cafeteria.

Also, there were two other girls on her hall that I was good friends with.  I visited one of them just about every day.

I didn't find out until about a year to a year and a half later, the fall after this girl had graduated, that she had been telling everybody I was "stalking her".

That actually made 2 or 3 comments by her and a couple of her friends make sense --- a year later.

I was not very happy with my one friend -- probably my best friend at the time --- for not having told me the girl was saying this to everybody and her sister at the school for over a year until the girl had left (and many of the others she had told this story had graduated too) and I could not defend myself.

And I have no idea why the nut case in Korea or this non-nut case girl in college made up these stories.

But there was absolutely nothing in my conduct to warrant even a hint of such a claim.

Maybe the girl in college was angry I didn't call her for a second date???/

Whatever the case--------

even though they did not claim I raped them or molested them -----

accusations of "stalking" or "sexual harassment" are taken very seriously.

Like we discussed at the hakwon, in the US, I would probably have been fired outright -- or given a show "hearing' after which I would have been fired --- just to avoid a law suit.

With the size of my undergraduate college, I'm suprised I didn't receive a visit from campus security or a letter to meet the dean of students or the school councilor.

(I had a roommate whose ex-girlfriend accused him of stalking an abusing her as well after they broke up, and he was notified by the school to explain himself.  Who knows the truth?  Maybe he did it or maybe she lied?  All I do know is that I never saw him angry at her much less abuse her, but I did see her get pissy with him when he paid too much attention to another girl who had come to visit us or when he didn't want to go out to town.  But, an abuser or molester or rapist or even serial killer has been known to hide his nature from most all outsiders....)

Another thing that makes me angry about being accused of such things like sexual harassment and stalking by someone completely full of shit is ---

I suffered from sexual abuse from about age 5 to 11.

I know what it does to a person ----- forever.

I have zero sympathy for an abuser.

In fact, it is a good thing I'm not in control of penal law, because I would use medieval torture on them for a few years before putting them out of their misery.

But........I also would like to see people who completely make up such stories revieve some sort of treatment amnesty international would write reports about........

That is why I think the school handled it about the best way they could.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had two accusations that I know about.</p>
<p>One was a nut in Korea.  A early 40s something female.  </p>
<p>The day after her first day at our school, one of the other females she was rooming with demanded one or the other be removed.  She said the woman was &#8220;crazy&#8221; and she wouldn&#8217;t put up with it.  She even agreed to move into the guys apartment to get away from her, and the other female teacher there agreed the woman was not right in the head.</p>
<p>I thought crazy was probably strong from what I saw in the coming weeks.</p>
<p>Until&#8230;&#8230;the woman was talking to our superviser (Korean), and then she left after the Korean walked away from her.  Then the nut came back in screaming that the Korean had better do something about this, and she wasn&#8217;t going to take that kind of harassment, and then she started yelling about how, &#8220;YOu know I&#8217;m talking to you&#8221; and a lot more stuff before she stormed out.  </p>
<p>Since there were only two men in the office, I looked at the other guy at his desk and said, &#8220;Was she talking to you?&#8221; at the same time he said it to me.</p>
<p>The Korean told us the woman had accused me of &#8220;sexually harassing&#8221; her.</p>
<p>I had not spoken more than 1 sentence to the woman per week the month she was with us until she thankfully did the midnight run a couple of weeks later.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;the other time was in college&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>I went out with this girl I shared a couple of classes with one time.<br />
I decided we wouldn&#8217;t work out as a couple and it wasn&#8217;t worth another date, but we were friends.  </p>
<p>It was a small college.   About 700 to 1000 students and we were both English majors.  So, we ran into each other all the time in the department, library, and cafeteria.</p>
<p>Also, there were two other girls on her hall that I was good friends with.  I visited one of them just about every day.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t find out until about a year to a year and a half later, the fall after this girl had graduated, that she had been telling everybody I was &#8220;stalking her&#8221;.</p>
<p>That actually made 2 or 3 comments by her and a couple of her friends make sense &#8212; a year later.</p>
<p>I was not very happy with my one friend &#8212; probably my best friend at the time &#8212; for not having told me the girl was saying this to everybody and her sister at the school for over a year until the girl had left (and many of the others she had told this story had graduated too) and I could not defend myself.</p>
<p>And I have no idea why the nut case in Korea or this non-nut case girl in college made up these stories.</p>
<p>But there was absolutely nothing in my conduct to warrant even a hint of such a claim.</p>
<p>Maybe the girl in college was angry I didn&#8217;t call her for a second date???/</p>
<p>Whatever the case&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>even though they did not claim I raped them or molested them &#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>accusations of &#8220;stalking&#8221; or &#8220;sexual harassment&#8221; are taken very seriously.</p>
<p>Like we discussed at the hakwon, in the US, I would probably have been fired outright &#8212; or given a show &#8220;hearing&#8217; after which I would have been fired &#8212; just to avoid a law suit.</p>
<p>With the size of my undergraduate college, I&#8217;m suprised I didn&#8217;t receive a visit from campus security or a letter to meet the dean of students or the school councilor.</p>
<p>(I had a roommate whose ex-girlfriend accused him of stalking an abusing her as well after they broke up, and he was notified by the school to explain himself.  Who knows the truth?  Maybe he did it or maybe she lied?  All I do know is that I never saw him angry at her much less abuse her, but I did see her get pissy with him when he paid too much attention to another girl who had come to visit us or when he didn&#8217;t want to go out to town.  But, an abuser or molester or rapist or even serial killer has been known to hide his nature from most all outsiders&#8230;.)</p>
<p>Another thing that makes me angry about being accused of such things like sexual harassment and stalking by someone completely full of shit is &#8212;</p>
<p>I suffered from sexual abuse from about age 5 to 11.</p>
<p>I know what it does to a person &#8212;&#8211; forever.</p>
<p>I have zero sympathy for an abuser.</p>
<p>In fact, it is a good thing I&#8217;m not in control of penal law, because I would use medieval torture on them for a few years before putting them out of their misery.</p>
<p>But&#8230;&#8230;..I also would like to see people who completely make up such stories revieve some sort of treatment amnesty international would write reports about&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>That is why I think the school handled it about the best way they could&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: MrChips</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/#comment-36477</link>
		<dc:creator>MrChips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 May 2006 12:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2918#comment-36477</guid>
		<description>Do the names Elizabeth Parris and Abigail Williams ring any bells?  How about Sarah Good or Elizabeth Howe?  It's all fun and games till someone gets hung over it.  Not that this is anything like the Salem Witch trials, but when the people WANT to believe something the girls can lie till kingdom come and the accused can deny it till he's blue in the face but it won't matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do the names Elizabeth Parris and Abigail Williams ring any bells?  How about Sarah Good or Elizabeth Howe?  It&#8217;s all fun and games till someone gets hung over it.  Not that this is anything like the Salem Witch trials, but when the people WANT to believe something the girls can lie till kingdom come and the accused can deny it till he&#8217;s blue in the face but it won&#8217;t matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/#comment-36456</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 May 2006 00:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2918#comment-36456</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;English majors in the college must be taught by native English speakers. All non-native English professors, over 90% in Korea, must be replaced.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It's not necessary that the teachers be native English speakers. But it &lt;b&gt;*is*&lt;/b&gt; necessary that the teachers of English be able to use the language themselves, if there is to be hope the students will be able to use it.

European students of English generally don't learn from native English speakers. Yet Europeans often have a very high facility with English. It's not necessary to ape a native English speaker's accent, but that's what Koreans think will solve the problem. It won't -- the problem is the study of English as a subject instead of a tool to get something done. It's a tragedy that Koreans insist on their "pedagogical method" which has so obviously failed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>English majors in the college must be taught by native English speakers. All non-native English professors, over 90% in Korea, must be replaced.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s not necessary that the teachers be native English speakers. But it <b>*is*</b> necessary that the teachers of English be able to use the language themselves, if there is to be hope the students will be able to use it.</p>
<p>European students of English generally don&#8217;t learn from native English speakers. Yet Europeans often have a very high facility with English. It&#8217;s not necessary to ape a native English speaker&#8217;s accent, but that&#8217;s what Koreans think will solve the problem. It won&#8217;t &#8212; the problem is the study of English as a subject instead of a tool to get something done. It&#8217;s a tragedy that Koreans insist on their &#8220;pedagogical method&#8221; which has so obviously failed.</p>
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		<title>By: usinkorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/#comment-36446</link>
		<dc:creator>usinkorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 19:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2918#comment-36446</guid>
		<description>Good to see the school handled it pretty much the right way all around....it seems.

I hope the Korean press will run a good chunk of their info on what they did about the matter and why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good to see the school handled it pretty much the right way all around&#8230;.it seems.</p>
<p>I hope the Korean press will run a good chunk of their info on what they did about the matter and why.</p>
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		<title>By: shakuhachi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/#comment-36440</link>
		<dc:creator>shakuhachi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 17:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2918#comment-36440</guid>
		<description>"That said, while in Korea my policy, and I never varied from it, was NEVER TOUCH A FEMALE STUDENT, EVER!!!"

Sounds like good advice in any country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That said, while in Korea my policy, and I never varied from it, was NEVER TOUCH A FEMALE STUDENT, EVER!!!&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like good advice in any country.</p>
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		<title>By: kimchipig</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/#comment-36426</link>
		<dc:creator>kimchipig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 15:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2918#comment-36426</guid>
		<description>Hell Hath No Fury.....

An intersting dilemma; had the alleged offender been 100% Big Nose, I can see the lynch mobs being assembled as I write this. However, this is an interesting case. One can be 1000% sure that had he been 100% Korean and carried a Korean passport this would have never been mentioned anywhere. Hell, I have seen Korean teachers do much worse myself.

More than likely the "victim" has that common condition of "Gyopo-envy-hate," and wanted to get even for something.

That said, while in Korea my policy, and I never varied from it, was NEVER TOUCH A FEMALE STUDENT, EVER!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hell Hath No Fury&#8230;..</p>
<p>An intersting dilemma; had the alleged offender been 100% Big Nose, I can see the lynch mobs being assembled as I write this. However, this is an interesting case. One can be 1000% sure that had he been 100% Korean and carried a Korean passport this would have never been mentioned anywhere. Hell, I have seen Korean teachers do much worse myself.</p>
<p>More than likely the &#8220;victim&#8221; has that common condition of &#8220;Gyopo-envy-hate,&#8221; and wanted to get even for something.</p>
<p>That said, while in Korea my policy, and I never varied from it, was NEVER TOUCH A FEMALE STUDENT, EVER!!!</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/26/update-on-seongnam-english-town-incident/#comment-36419</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 14:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2918#comment-36419</guid>
		<description>There are thousands of English teachers(Korean) who want to see the Seongnam English Town go.  These Korean English(Konglish) teachers, who have learned their grammer-based English from Japanese-trained Konglish professors, cannot make living as English teachers.  And, They are mad.

Any scandal out of that place adds fuel to the fire the Commie-led Korean Teacher's union has been brewing.  You see, the Commies want bureaucracy where they thrive.  These Korean English teachers want to teach some voodoo English grammar developed (don't laugh) by the Japanese.  They cannot carry on five minutes of decent English conversation and cannot even watch an English movie without subtitle. Yet, they are proud to call themselves English teachers!

These Commies must go.  They are not English teachers.  Period.  English majors in the college must be taught by native English speakers.  All non-native English professors, over 90% in Korea, must be replaced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are thousands of English teachers(Korean) who want to see the Seongnam English Town go.  These Korean English(Konglish) teachers, who have learned their grammer-based English from Japanese-trained Konglish professors, cannot make living as English teachers.  And, They are mad.</p>
<p>Any scandal out of that place adds fuel to the fire the Commie-led Korean Teacher&#8217;s union has been brewing.  You see, the Commies want bureaucracy where they thrive.  These Korean English teachers want to teach some voodoo English grammar developed (don&#8217;t laugh) by the Japanese.  They cannot carry on five minutes of decent English conversation and cannot even watch an English movie without subtitle. Yet, they are proud to call themselves English teachers!</p>
<p>These Commies must go.  They are not English teachers.  Period.  English majors in the college must be taught by native English speakers.  All non-native English professors, over 90% in Korea, must be replaced.</p>
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