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Lord, what fools these mortals be!
– William Shakespeare, “A Midsummer-Night’s Dream”
Q: Minnesotans ask, “Why aren’t there more pharmacists from Alabama?”
A: Easy. It’s because they can’t figure out how t…

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You love peace.
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You will gain money by a fattening action.
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Here is what I have gathered from Googling a bit: The used panty machines came out in the early 1990s but were largely shut down by 1993. Over the next decade, they slowly made a comeback until another crackdown a couple of years ago. The latest siting was in 2003, I think.

Since the trade appears to be technically illegal, it makes a lot more sense to just sell the stuff at a shop were the clerks can pull it under the counter when John Law shows up.

I live in Tokyo for years. I’ve seen machines selling foods, cigarettes, stockings, new underwear etc.
If you are talking about machines selling used panties, they are not to be found. Stores are prohibited from actually buying/selling this kind of things. Even if there are still some fetish shops that sell them, most Japanese aren’t familiar with it.

Not read? Gibbon’s DECLINE AND FALL has some of the best prose in the English language. Totally worth a read, although not so much for its actual history (very good, however, if you are into historiagraphy).

Anyhow, as to Japan and morals… If the morality of Japan was on the decline, wouldn’t you expect to see a rising crime rate, theft, murder, etc. Crime in Japan increased dramatically over the 1990s, but declined slightly in 2003 and 2004 (the most recent numbers I could find).

Despite such a rise, however, the serious crime rate in Japan remains greatly lower than in Western countries. Sure, statistics are gathered differently and crimes are prosecuted differently (and, yes, the Japanese cops are probably as incompetent as the Korean cops), but Japan is still much safer than most countries.

Much like in the United States in the 1990s, where fear of crime rose even as crime rates fell, the media in Japan focuses on the lurid and shocking stories. Tabloids, especially, like to write about declining morals all the time, in every country. In a country of 125 million, you are bound to find some terrible stories, even in the best of times.

Well, I expected a response from Hans but I thought he could at least follow what I had said given his liberal use of adjectives. Reminds me of William Rogers Jones in KT. Oozing words for the sake of hearing himself.

I’ll restate my point. I wasn’t disparaging any historians who criticize Gibbon, or any “relevant scholarship” for that matter. In fact, I alluded to there being a fair amount. So there’s no need to quote any since there’s no issue to attach my references to. Perhaps he wants names just for the sake of it? Ok: Sir Berlin, Sir Neale, Prof’s Poppin, Croce, Becker, Trevelyan, Butterfield, Carlysle, Burckhardt, Peter Geyl, etc. etc. etc. (And I did actually mention one historian in my post though I guessed he missed it.) All commented on Gibbon and criticized him. None of them disregarded his work as carelessly as Hans did. Gibbon has his faults but to poopoo everything in his works as utterly unusable, and in a vein that seems like an attempt to legitimize any kind of behavior no matter how it affects anyone else, is simply unacceptable. Maybe I was too dismissive in my criticism but, and forgive my “social conservatism,” when someone, under the guise of revisionist criticism of Gibbon, tries to legitimize panty pulling, statutory rape (the actual term for the kind of “teenage promiscuity” alluded to), and any other form of decadence that violates other peoples privacy and security that goes too far. And all to hear himself talk…Sanctimonious? How about pretentious.

Try this on for size: Péter plus haut que son cul!

As for the Urban Legend remark, that’s just not cricket dude. You may want to re-examine your “rage-filled rant” comment. Please read thoroughly this time before commenting. BTW, you catch Hatton-Collazo? What a ripoff!

For Ray, I shouldn’t have insinuated that the vending machines in question were common; they’re not. They’re not in plain view, they’re not on every corner, they’re not a part of daily life for Japanese… But they’re there and maybe not in foreigner-saturated places like Ropongi in Tokyo or America Village in Osaka but they’re there. In fact they’ve even been highlighted on late night tv in Japan in places like love hotels and outside the underground sex clubs (literally underground). Just go out and look for 下着 自販機 (and no I don’t speak much Japanese. I got this from one of my Japanese friends in Tokyo).

BTW, I doubt you can google such a thing. The DBs for “.com” and “.co.jp” aren’t the same. Type in the Japanese words on “.co.jp” and you’ll get a few more responses, I’ll bet.

See there now!! All this crap about panty machines and Gibbon was enough to distract some from the meat of the conversation. Is Plunge’s diatribe overboard or out of place? I think the answer is yes. There’s enough shit to go around in the world and people need to clean up their own act before stickin their fingers in other people’s business. Isn’t that what I said? I think it is.