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	<title>Comments on: Shanghai, Seoul can learn from Seoul&#8217;s environmental success: TIME</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun,  6 Jul 2008 02:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: jyce</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/#comment-35252</link>
		<dc:creator>jyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 01:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2829#comment-35252</guid>
		<description>It is actually Seoul that should learn from Hong Kong and not the other way around.

Despite being a famously duty free port, Hong Kong imposes high taxes on automobile ownership, which of course makes sense because Hong Kong actually understands that it is a densely populated Asian country (or special administrative region). Hong Kong also has lots of parks, trees, trash cans on the street, and real architecture by big names like I.M. Pei.

In contrast, Korea seems unaware that any alternatives to the US car-centered infrastructure even exist, despite being a densely populated Asian country like Hong Kong and not a low density country like America. I can't imagine, for example, any other similarly densely populated country stupid enough to mandate free parking for every apartment by law just to subsidize the domestic auto industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is actually Seoul that should learn from Hong Kong and not the other way around.</p>
<p>Despite being a famously duty free port, Hong Kong imposes high taxes on automobile ownership, which of course makes sense because Hong Kong actually understands that it is a densely populated Asian country (or special administrative region). Hong Kong also has lots of parks, trees, trash cans on the street, and real architecture by big names like I.M. Pei.</p>
<p>In contrast, Korea seems unaware that any alternatives to the US car-centered infrastructure even exist, despite being a densely populated Asian country like Hong Kong and not a low density country like America. I can&#8217;t imagine, for example, any other similarly densely populated country stupid enough to mandate free parking for every apartment by law just to subsidize the domestic auto industry.</p>
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		<title>By: bulgasari</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/#comment-35241</link>
		<dc:creator>bulgasari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 21:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2829#comment-35241</guid>
		<description>A cutting-edge, clean-running transit system is slowly weaning Seoulites off their auto addiction.

As Michael noted, the diesel buses throw this assertion off a little.  What is this article anyways, a press release from the mayor's office?

The concrete stream downtown and the lack of concern regarding the hanok do not reflect well upon this current mayor presidential candidate.

I think the whole 'presidential candidate' angle is what this is really all about.  When you think about what most presidents have been able to accomplish in their 5 year terms and compare it to Park Chung-hee's legacy (the more pleasant side of it, I mean), they end up looking like they've done very little.  The race to finish Cheonggyecheon ("Ancient ruins?  Just bulldoze them!") was part of a desire to look as if something has been accomplished in Lee Myung-baks short term as mayor.  No one's going to complain too much about many of the things he's done - A 'stream' is better than a freeway, a grass patch is better than a traffic rotary, and crosswalks are better than underpasses.  But I do wonder about the location of one of those grass patches - in front of city hall - as it makes it so much easier, when all these festivals, and the ice rink, and the fountains are there, to remember who made it all possible.  

Not for nothing was I unable to pass directly in front of city hall the night after the stream opened - everyone was stopping to greet the mayor, who was impossible to miss with that huge smile plastered on his face...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A cutting-edge, clean-running transit system is slowly weaning Seoulites off their auto addiction.</p>
<p>As Michael noted, the diesel buses throw this assertion off a little.  What is this article anyways, a press release from the mayor&#8217;s office?</p>
<p>The concrete stream downtown and the lack of concern regarding the hanok do not reflect well upon this current mayor presidential candidate.</p>
<p>I think the whole &#8216;presidential candidate&#8217; angle is what this is really all about.  When you think about what most presidents have been able to accomplish in their 5 year terms and compare it to Park Chung-hee&#8217;s legacy (the more pleasant side of it, I mean), they end up looking like they&#8217;ve done very little.  The race to finish Cheonggyecheon (&#8221;Ancient ruins?  Just bulldoze them!&#8221;) was part of a desire to look as if something has been accomplished in Lee Myung-baks short term as mayor.  No one&#8217;s going to complain too much about many of the things he&#8217;s done - A &#8217;stream&#8217; is better than a freeway, a grass patch is better than a traffic rotary, and crosswalks are better than underpasses.  But I do wonder about the location of one of those grass patches - in front of city hall - as it makes it so much easier, when all these festivals, and the ice rink, and the fountains are there, to remember who made it all possible.  </p>
<p>Not for nothing was I unable to pass directly in front of city hall the night after the stream opened - everyone was stopping to greet the mayor, who was impossible to miss with that huge smile plastered on his face&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: R. Elgin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/#comment-35176</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Elgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 04:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2829#comment-35176</guid>
		<description>As Michael points out, the real culprit is a serious lack of education in Korea regarding so many quality of life issues that many of us, from other countries, take for granted.  Education is still the key (IMHO) for raising the quality of life in Korea to a higher level but this is difficult when those who should teach do not understand what "quality of life" means.  Koreans -- like too many people elsewhere in the world -- need to have their noses rubbed into a problem before they feel the need to address a problem.  This is called "hindsight".

The concrete stream downtown and the lack of concern regarding the hanok do not reflect well upon this current mayor &lt;strike&gt;presidential candidate&lt;/strike&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Michael points out, the real culprit is a serious lack of education in Korea regarding so many quality of life issues that many of us, from other countries, take for granted.  Education is still the key (IMHO) for raising the quality of life in Korea to a higher level but this is difficult when those who should teach do not understand what &#8220;quality of life&#8221; means.  Koreans &#8212; like too many people elsewhere in the world &#8212; need to have their noses rubbed into a problem before they feel the need to address a problem.  This is called &#8220;hindsight&#8221;.</p>
<p>The concrete stream downtown and the lack of concern regarding the hanok do not reflect well upon this current mayor <strike>presidential candidate</strike>.</p>
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		<title>By: Shenzhen Whitey</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/#comment-35167</link>
		<dc:creator>Shenzhen Whitey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 01:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2829#comment-35167</guid>
		<description>Those commie blocks are horrible for interesting streetlife, just like the ever larger real estate developments here in China (which are the urban equivalent of polarizing gated communities in the US suburbs).

The Koreans are amateurs when it comes to throwing trash onto the street. I actually wish the streetsweepers here were not so good at their jobs, so that the Chinese could see just how much crap they trhrow on the streets and in the parks over a course of a few days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those commie blocks are horrible for interesting streetlife, just like the ever larger real estate developments here in China (which are the urban equivalent of polarizing gated communities in the US suburbs).</p>
<p>The Koreans are amateurs when it comes to throwing trash onto the street. I actually wish the streetsweepers here were not so good at their jobs, so that the Chinese could see just how much crap they trhrow on the streets and in the parks over a course of a few days.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/#comment-35159</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 01:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2829#comment-35159</guid>
		<description>Those multiple, identical apartment blocks ("commieblocks") are starting to look cooler these days, I think...they add a lot of character when they're sprinkled across the city.  But the more "commie" and gray they look....ugh.

I definitely agree about the &lt;i&gt;hanok&lt;/i&gt;... very exotic to my eyes. I'd like to see them, or that style, stay for a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those multiple, identical apartment blocks (&#8221;commieblocks&#8221;) are starting to look cooler these days, I think&#8230;they add a lot of character when they&#8217;re sprinkled across the city.  But the more &#8220;commie&#8221; and gray they look&#8230;.ugh.</p>
<p>I definitely agree about the <i>hanok</i>&#8230; very exotic to my eyes. I&#8217;d like to see them, or that style, stay for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/#comment-35158</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 00:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2829#comment-35158</guid>
		<description>The destruction of hanoks is another blight on Korea, since they are about the only indigenous architecture outside of the temples. I've lived in big cities most of my life and it takes a lot of ugliness to get to me, but I have to say Seoul has some of the ugliest architecture in the world, mainly the soul-killing apartment blocks that are lined up like tombstones. 

Space (Korean architecture magazine) has editorialized about this many times, and architects here are aware of the issue, but the chaebol don't care about making interesting, sustainable housing, they only want the cheapest construction possible for the most profit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The destruction of hanoks is another blight on Korea, since they are about the only indigenous architecture outside of the temples. I&#8217;ve lived in big cities most of my life and it takes a lot of ugliness to get to me, but I have to say Seoul has some of the ugliest architecture in the world, mainly the soul-killing apartment blocks that are lined up like tombstones. </p>
<p>Space (Korean architecture magazine) has editorialized about this many times, and architects here are aware of the issue, but the chaebol don&#8217;t care about making interesting, sustainable housing, they only want the cheapest construction possible for the most profit.</p>
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		<title>By: Haisan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/#comment-35157</link>
		<dc:creator>Haisan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 00:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2829#comment-35157</guid>
		<description>&#62; it’s making some concrete steps...

Heh. That's so true. Cheonggyecheon, the concrete stream. 

And why does the mayor get credit for returning the stream to its historical glory (that never was) when a couple hundred hanok, right beside the Blue House, have been razed since he came to power (if anything, at an increased rate)? 

(OK, that's not exactly green, but I think it is in the same neighborhood).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; it’s making some concrete steps&#8230;</p>
<p>Heh. That&#8217;s so true. Cheonggyecheon, the concrete stream. </p>
<p>And why does the mayor get credit for returning the stream to its historical glory (that never was) when a couple hundred hanok, right beside the Blue House, have been razed since he came to power (if anything, at an increased rate)? </p>
<p>(OK, that&#8217;s not exactly green, but I think it is in the same neighborhood).</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/#comment-35153</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 00:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2829#comment-35153</guid>
		<description>GI Korea said on Nomad's blog that people near his base throw trash off a bridge into a creek. I'm not picking on Koreans, but they seem to need education about not littering, like he said. There's also something seriously wrong with trash collection in Seoul, when restaurants leave bags of rotting food in front of their places and people just toss garbage onto the sidewalk. That's a third world mentality. 

I've read it costs $2 million a year to pump water down Cheonggyecheon, which is a glorified drainage ditch that doesn't remotely look like a real stream. Imagine if that money was spent on educating people and putting some trash cans on the streets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GI Korea said on Nomad&#8217;s blog that people near his base throw trash off a bridge into a creek. I&#8217;m not picking on Koreans, but they seem to need education about not littering, like he said. There&#8217;s also something seriously wrong with trash collection in Seoul, when restaurants leave bags of rotting food in front of their places and people just toss garbage onto the sidewalk. That&#8217;s a third world mentality. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read it costs $2 million a year to pump water down Cheonggyecheon, which is a glorified drainage ditch that doesn&#8217;t remotely look like a real stream. Imagine if that money was spent on educating people and putting some trash cans on the streets.</p>
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		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/#comment-35142</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 17:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2829#comment-35142</guid>
		<description>Seoul is a model for Hong Kong, not Tokyo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seoul is a model for Hong Kong, not Tokyo.</p>
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		<title>By: cm</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/05/09/shanghai-seoul-can-learn-from-seouls-environmental-success-time/#comment-35137</link>
		<dc:creator>cm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 13:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2829#comment-35137</guid>
		<description>I think all of you are missing the point of the article. The point is that Seoul, as ugly and polluted as it was, it's making some concrete steps in the right direction to rectifiy some of the problems - which could be used as a lesson for some others to follow. The point wasn't that Seoul was the  mother of all green environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think all of you are missing the point of the article. The point is that Seoul, as ugly and polluted as it was, it&#8217;s making some concrete steps in the right direction to rectifiy some of the problems - which could be used as a lesson for some others to follow. The point wasn&#8217;t that Seoul was the  mother of all green environment.</p>
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