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	<title>Comments on: Chosun Ilbo piece on Vietnamese brides sparks anger in Vietnam</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/#comment-34686</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 May 2006 19:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2781#comment-34686</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;"My impression from many Korean participants in English language forums is that if you were to put forced abortion for mixed-marriage babies to a referendum vote in South Korea, you could conceivably get a majority for it."&lt;/b&gt;

Whoa, Zhang Fei.  It's the NorKs who kill the babies of North Korean mothers and Chinese fathers.  South Koreans can be extreme about their "danil minjok" ideal, but they're not Nazis.  Seriously.  Whatever hardships mixed-race Koreans of various backgrounds experience in South Korea cannot compare to imprisonment and murder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>&#8220;My impression from many Korean participants in English language forums is that if you were to put forced abortion for mixed-marriage babies to a referendum vote in South Korea, you could conceivably get a majority for it.&#8221;</b></p>
<p>Whoa, Zhang Fei.  It&#8217;s the NorKs who kill the babies of North Korean mothers and Chinese fathers.  South Koreans can be extreme about their &#8220;danil minjok&#8221; ideal, but they&#8217;re not Nazis.  Seriously.  Whatever hardships mixed-race Koreans of various backgrounds experience in South Korea cannot compare to imprisonment and murder.</p>
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		<title>By: Zhang Fei</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/#comment-34684</link>
		<dc:creator>Zhang Fei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 May 2006 19:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2781#comment-34684</guid>
		<description>I really don't see anything wrong with women marrying up - in economic terms - this is simply what they've done throughout recorded history. I understand that the Vietnamese are up in arms because they see the potential marriage pool getting reduced. The Korean outrage is described as a discomfort with the idea of somehow "exploiting" Vietnamese women. But I wonder if this is simply cover for their greater discomfort with the idea of sullying "pure" "Korean" bloodlines with Vietnamese bloodlines. My impression from many Korean participants in English language forums is that if you were to put forced abortion for mixed-marriage babies to a referendum vote in South Korea, you could conceivably get a majority for it. The caveat is that South Korean politicians probably wouldn't come out with something like that, since they presumably feel the need to command respect around the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t see anything wrong with women marrying up - in economic terms - this is simply what they&#8217;ve done throughout recorded history. I understand that the Vietnamese are up in arms because they see the potential marriage pool getting reduced. The Korean outrage is described as a discomfort with the idea of somehow &#8220;exploiting&#8221; Vietnamese women. But I wonder if this is simply cover for their greater discomfort with the idea of sullying &#8220;pure&#8221; &#8220;Korean&#8221; bloodlines with Vietnamese bloodlines. My impression from many Korean participants in English language forums is that if you were to put forced abortion for mixed-marriage babies to a referendum vote in South Korea, you could conceivably get a majority for it. The caveat is that South Korean politicians probably wouldn&#8217;t come out with something like that, since they presumably feel the need to command respect around the world.</p>
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		<title>By: London Korean Links &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Buying Vietnamese brides</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/#comment-34652</link>
		<dc:creator>London Korean Links &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Buying Vietnamese brides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 May 2006 09:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2781#comment-34652</guid>
		<description>[...] The Chosun article I spotted a week ago has created waves in diplomatic circles. As ever, the Marmot has his finger on the pulse. He has some great posts here and here. Follow his links at your leisure. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Chosun article I spotted a week ago has created waves in diplomatic circles. As ever, the Marmot has his finger on the pulse. He has some great posts here and here. Follow his links at your leisure. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Stinson</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/#comment-34627</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Stinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2781#comment-34627</guid>
		<description>To clarify some things mahathir_fan has said about Chinese history:

&lt;em&gt;Deng Xiao Peng was Mao’s political enemy.  During the last years of Mao’s reign, Deng Xiao Peng was a fugitive wanted by Chinese law. &lt;/em&gt;

This is not correct.  As sanshinseon pointed out, Deng was imprisoned by Mao's supporters during the Cultural Revolution.  However, Deng's imprisonment involved being shipped to a reform-through-labor camp, which was rather minor compared to the treatment of his mentor Liu Shaoqi, who died in prison under mysterious circumstances.  In fact, Liu was Mao's main enemy, and Deng was his his chief lieutenant.  Deng survived in part because most of Mao's (and therefore, the Gang of Four's) ire was directed at Liu, though Premier Zhou Enlai also played a role in keeping Deng safe from danger.  Deng was returned to a position in the government in 1973, and he rather easily overthrew Mao's handpicked successor Hua Guofeng in a comparatively bloodless two-year power struggle following Mao's death in 1976.

&lt;em&gt;Sure. The Communists were all originally members of KuoMinTang. But later, Chiang Kai Shek decided to kill them all. Some escaped and thereafter formed a separate group from Kuo Min Tang.&lt;/em&gt;

This is also not correct.  Following the New Culture Movement, which introduced foreign political ideologies to China, the Communists had emerged as a separate and distinct political faction before they worked with the Nationalists.  It was at Moscow's urging that the Communists joined the KMT, with the hope that the Communists could subvert the Nationalists from within.   However, the Chinese Communists proved too independent for the Soviet agents to control, and Chiang Kai-shek, too, had decided that the Nationalists, which came under his control after Dr. Sun died in the mid-1920s, would have nothing to do with the Communists, and so he began a campaign to annihilate them after he completed the Northern Expedition in the late 1920s.  The Communists did not "escape," but rather, abandoned the Soviet plans for them to infiltrate the Nationalists, and focused on developing rural collectives and drawing support from the peasants.  In turn, the were nearly crushed by the Nationalist encirclement campaigns, which ended in the Long March.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To clarify some things mahathir_fan has said about Chinese history:</p>
<p><em>Deng Xiao Peng was Mao’s political enemy.  During the last years of Mao’s reign, Deng Xiao Peng was a fugitive wanted by Chinese law. </em></p>
<p>This is not correct.  As sanshinseon pointed out, Deng was imprisoned by Mao&#8217;s supporters during the Cultural Revolution.  However, Deng&#8217;s imprisonment involved being shipped to a reform-through-labor camp, which was rather minor compared to the treatment of his mentor Liu Shaoqi, who died in prison under mysterious circumstances.  In fact, Liu was Mao&#8217;s main enemy, and Deng was his his chief lieutenant.  Deng survived in part because most of Mao&#8217;s (and therefore, the Gang of Four&#8217;s) ire was directed at Liu, though Premier Zhou Enlai also played a role in keeping Deng safe from danger.  Deng was returned to a position in the government in 1973, and he rather easily overthrew Mao&#8217;s handpicked successor Hua Guofeng in a comparatively bloodless two-year power struggle following Mao&#8217;s death in 1976.</p>
<p><em>Sure. The Communists were all originally members of KuoMinTang. But later, Chiang Kai Shek decided to kill them all. Some escaped and thereafter formed a separate group from Kuo Min Tang.</em></p>
<p>This is also not correct.  Following the New Culture Movement, which introduced foreign political ideologies to China, the Communists had emerged as a separate and distinct political faction before they worked with the Nationalists.  It was at Moscow&#8217;s urging that the Communists joined the KMT, with the hope that the Communists could subvert the Nationalists from within.   However, the Chinese Communists proved too independent for the Soviet agents to control, and Chiang Kai-shek, too, had decided that the Nationalists, which came under his control after Dr. Sun died in the mid-1920s, would have nothing to do with the Communists, and so he began a campaign to annihilate them after he completed the Northern Expedition in the late 1920s.  The Communists did not &#8220;escape,&#8221; but rather, abandoned the Soviet plans for them to infiltrate the Nationalists, and focused on developing rural collectives and drawing support from the peasants.  In turn, the were nearly crushed by the Nationalist encirclement campaigns, which ended in the Long March.</p>
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		<title>By: mahathir_fan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/#comment-34619</link>
		<dc:creator>mahathir_fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2781#comment-34619</guid>
		<description>"mahathir fan, even though Sun Yat Sen worked with Chiang Kai Shek?"

Sure. The Communists were all originally members of KuoMinTang. But later, Chiang Kai Shek decided to kill them all. Some escaped and thereafter formed a separate group from Kuo Min Tang. 

But it won the sympathy of Sun Yat Sen's wife, Soong Qing Ling. Soong Qing Ling felt it was wrong to execute the communists for their beliefs. She sided with them and after WWII, she stayed on in Mainland China to help them  found the PRC. 

It is interesting to note that her younger sister, Soong May Ling is Chiang Kai Shek's wife.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;mahathir fan, even though Sun Yat Sen worked with Chiang Kai Shek?&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure. The Communists were all originally members of KuoMinTang. But later, Chiang Kai Shek decided to kill them all. Some escaped and thereafter formed a separate group from Kuo Min Tang. </p>
<p>But it won the sympathy of Sun Yat Sen&#8217;s wife, Soong Qing Ling. Soong Qing Ling felt it was wrong to execute the communists for their beliefs. She sided with them and after WWII, she stayed on in Mainland China to help them  found the PRC. </p>
<p>It is interesting to note that her younger sister, Soong May Ling is Chiang Kai Shek&#8217;s wife.</p>
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		<title>By: sanshinseon</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/#comment-34614</link>
		<dc:creator>sanshinseon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Apr 2006 02:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2781#comment-34614</guid>
		<description>Deng was a prisoner in the mid-70s until Mao died, not a 'fugitive', right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deng was a prisoner in the mid-70s until Mao died, not a &#8216;fugitive&#8217;, right?</p>
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		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/#comment-34609</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2781#comment-34609</guid>
		<description>you seem to be right about Sun Yat Sen, Mahathir_fan, sorry about my ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you seem to be right about Sun Yat Sen, Mahathir_fan, sorry about my ignorance.</p>
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		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/#comment-34607</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2781#comment-34607</guid>
		<description>and I do admit that I know nothing or not much about  recent Chinese history regarding Deng being a political fugitive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and I do admit that I know nothing or not much about  recent Chinese history regarding Deng being a political fugitive.</p>
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		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/#comment-34606</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2781#comment-34606</guid>
		<description>mahathir fan, even though Sun Yat Sen worked with Chiang Kai Shek?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mahathir fan, even though Sun Yat Sen worked with Chiang Kai Shek?</p>
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		<title>By: mahathir_fan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/29/chosun-ilbo-piece-on-vietnamese-brides-sparks-anger-in-vietnam/#comment-34605</link>
		<dc:creator>mahathir_fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2781#comment-34605</guid>
		<description>"I don’t understand the Chinese or the Vietnamese, who keep up Mao and Ho Chi Minh on god status, when they clearly broke off from their views and went free market."

You obviously show your lack of understanding Chinese history. The administration that went free market was that of Deng Xiao Peng. Deng Xiao Peng was Mao's political enemy. During the last years of Mao's reign, Deng Xiao Peng was a fugitive wanted by Chinese law. After Mao's death, Deng staged a come back and rewrote China's constitution - among them, implementing a 2 term limit on China's presidency.

There is a delicate balance of the reformers and hardliner within the Communist Party. There is no question that Mao's apparent "adoration" even by the reformers is to balance this power. However, I have little doubt that upon reunification with the other China in Taiwan province, that that figure on Tiananmen Square will then be Sun Yat Sen. Sun Yat Sen is considered the father of Modern China, a fact widely accepted in mainland, taiwan, macao and hong kong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t understand the Chinese or the Vietnamese, who keep up Mao and Ho Chi Minh on god status, when they clearly broke off from their views and went free market.&#8221;</p>
<p>You obviously show your lack of understanding Chinese history. The administration that went free market was that of Deng Xiao Peng. Deng Xiao Peng was Mao&#8217;s political enemy. During the last years of Mao&#8217;s reign, Deng Xiao Peng was a fugitive wanted by Chinese law. After Mao&#8217;s death, Deng staged a come back and rewrote China&#8217;s constitution - among them, implementing a 2 term limit on China&#8217;s presidency.</p>
<p>There is a delicate balance of the reformers and hardliner within the Communist Party. There is no question that Mao&#8217;s apparent &#8220;adoration&#8221; even by the reformers is to balance this power. However, I have little doubt that upon reunification with the other China in Taiwan province, that that figure on Tiananmen Square will then be Sun Yat Sen. Sun Yat Sen is considered the father of Modern China, a fact widely accepted in mainland, taiwan, macao and hong kong.</p>
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