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	<title>Comments on: Is the US changing its policy on North Korean defectors?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MrChips</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/#comment-34335</link>
		<dc:creator>MrChips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2754#comment-34335</guid>
		<description>Michael, thanks for sharing the article!!  That is definately a keeper.  I have sections of a diary from one my ancestors who was a Quaker in western Pennsylvania and involved in the underground railroad.  He mentions numerous times how people he worked with had been approached by "bounty hunters" hired by local governments in the southern states to pressure the Quakers into stopping their activities.  In some cases, people he knew were lynched for their involvement in the underground.  It's hard to imagine that still going on today, and against a more formidable opponent in the Chinese government to boot.  I really hope the Bush "inaction" that the article spoke of evolves into a spirit of cooperation with organizations like Peter's.  It's every bit as important as the underground railroad of old.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, thanks for sharing the article!!  That is definately a keeper.  I have sections of a diary from one my ancestors who was a Quaker in western Pennsylvania and involved in the underground railroad.  He mentions numerous times how people he worked with had been approached by &#8220;bounty hunters&#8221; hired by local governments in the southern states to pressure the Quakers into stopping their activities.  In some cases, people he knew were lynched for their involvement in the underground.  It&#8217;s hard to imagine that still going on today, and against a more formidable opponent in the Chinese government to boot.  I really hope the Bush &#8220;inaction&#8221; that the article spoke of evolves into a spirit of cooperation with organizations like Peter&#8217;s.  It&#8217;s every bit as important as the underground railroad of old.</p>
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		<title>By: kushibo</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/#comment-34327</link>
		<dc:creator>kushibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2754#comment-34327</guid>
		<description>Brendon Carr wrote:
&lt;b&gt;Except that under the Republic of Korea’s Constitution, those poor bastards are citizens of the Republic of Korea.&lt;/b&gt;

What of it? Has the ROK government ever said they would not allow the US, Japan, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, France, the UK, Palau, or any other country to take in North Korean refugees? 

These countries have shown a lack of interest and will at helping resettle North Korean refugees; they have taken in virtually zero. It seems a red herring to suggest that South Korea is somehow preventing them from doing so.

There &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a bottleneck to the assimilation process here. If significantly more NK refugees are to be spirited out of China, then other countries will have to take &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt;. The Kim Daejung and Roh Moohyun administrations have both expanded the Hanawon facilities for processing and assimilating former DPRKers, so the constant beating up on them &lt;i&gt;in the absence of any other country doing anything&lt;/i&gt; is disingenuous. 

Slim, the numbers of refugees admitted to South Korea do not gel so neatly with the rise and fall of famine conditions in the North. By 1998, some &lt;a href="http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9808/19/nkorea.famine/" rel="nofollow"&gt;two million may have died&lt;/a&gt; in the previous three years, yet the number of admitted refugees was quite low then compared to later. 

The loosening of the DPRK border, along with less repression in the PRC may be factors, but none of these would guarantee resettlement in the ROK. My point is that it was the Kim Daejung administration that took a much greater initiative than before, and then the Roh Moohyun administration — derided as it is for turning its back on refugees (some of the criticism is deserved) — not only expanded the capacity for the South to take in refugees, but it has taken in more than all before combined, including the Kim Daejung administration, which had also accompllished the same feat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brendon Carr wrote:<br />
<b>Except that under the Republic of Korea’s Constitution, those poor bastards are citizens of the Republic of Korea.</b></p>
<p>What of it? Has the ROK government ever said they would not allow the US, Japan, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, France, the UK, Palau, or any other country to take in North Korean refugees? </p>
<p>These countries have shown a lack of interest and will at helping resettle North Korean refugees; they have taken in virtually zero. It seems a red herring to suggest that South Korea is somehow preventing them from doing so.</p>
<p>There <i>is</i> a bottleneck to the assimilation process here. If significantly more NK refugees are to be spirited out of China, then other countries will have to take <i>some</i>. The Kim Daejung and Roh Moohyun administrations have both expanded the Hanawon facilities for processing and assimilating former DPRKers, so the constant beating up on them <i>in the absence of any other country doing anything</i> is disingenuous. </p>
<p>Slim, the numbers of refugees admitted to South Korea do not gel so neatly with the rise and fall of famine conditions in the North. By 1998, some <a href="http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9808/19/nkorea.famine/" rel="nofollow">two million may have died</a> in the previous three years, yet the number of admitted refugees was quite low then compared to later. </p>
<p>The loosening of the DPRK border, along with less repression in the PRC may be factors, but none of these would guarantee resettlement in the ROK. My point is that it was the Kim Daejung administration that took a much greater initiative than before, and then the Roh Moohyun administration — derided as it is for turning its back on refugees (some of the criticism is deserved) — not only expanded the capacity for the South to take in refugees, but it has taken in more than all before combined, including the Kim Daejung administration, which had also accompllished the same feat.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/#comment-34305</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2754#comment-34305</guid>
		<description>Lost Nomad had a good article about aiding N.K. refugees:

http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501060501/story2.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lost Nomad had a good article about aiding N.K. refugees:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501060501/story2.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.time.com/time/asia/.....tory2.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: MrChips</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/#comment-34184</link>
		<dc:creator>MrChips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2754#comment-34184</guid>
		<description>I've tried to gather information about exactly what the North Korean Human Rights Act says and what it allows the State Department to do, short of actually referring to the act posted on the Senate.gov website.  Reading their jargon is like pulling teeth.  Anyone know of a good website that actually details what the Act does and what changes it provides for?

With that said I think the involvement of South Korea as a home to refugees is missing the issue entirely.  Of course South Korea is the last stop for most North Korean refugees but the current situation is such that it is easier for them to go through a third country out of China than it is to go  directly from China to South Korea.  That's unfortunate.  The final tally really doesn't matter.  As well, there is a technical point in the South Korean constitution that if changed would, I believe, give great support to refugees in China.  South Korea doesn't consider the citizens of North Korea as being from another country.  As much as it might hurt some folks' pride here in South Korea, taking the official steps to recognize the de facto situation would take away a loophole that China has in returning refugees to North Korea.  Technically, China is only returning vagrants who are trying to move from one part of Korea to the other for economic purposes.  Now, everyone knows that isn't really true, but as long as South Korea refuses to recognize the legitimacy of North Korea as a separate sovereign nation China can continue to ignore their  responsibility under the UN refugee commission which they are ostensibly signed on to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve tried to gather information about exactly what the North Korean Human Rights Act says and what it allows the State Department to do, short of actually referring to the act posted on the Senate.gov website.  Reading their jargon is like pulling teeth.  Anyone know of a good website that actually details what the Act does and what changes it provides for?</p>
<p>With that said I think the involvement of South Korea as a home to refugees is missing the issue entirely.  Of course South Korea is the last stop for most North Korean refugees but the current situation is such that it is easier for them to go through a third country out of China than it is to go  directly from China to South Korea.  That&#8217;s unfortunate.  The final tally really doesn&#8217;t matter.  As well, there is a technical point in the South Korean constitution that if changed would, I believe, give great support to refugees in China.  South Korea doesn&#8217;t consider the citizens of North Korea as being from another country.  As much as it might hurt some folks&#8217; pride here in South Korea, taking the official steps to recognize the de facto situation would take away a loophole that China has in returning refugees to North Korea.  Technically, China is only returning vagrants who are trying to move from one part of Korea to the other for economic purposes.  Now, everyone knows that isn&#8217;t really true, but as long as South Korea refuses to recognize the legitimacy of North Korea as a separate sovereign nation China can continue to ignore their  responsibility under the UN refugee commission which they are ostensibly signed on to.</p>
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		<title>By: slim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/#comment-34053</link>
		<dc:creator>slim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2754#comment-34053</guid>
		<description>Without intending to be churlish about the Roh administration's welcome mat, the rise in numbers also reflects the rise in SUPPLY of refugees and timing of the worst of the famine in North Korea, which peaked in 1998, under DJ. In earlier administrations, there wasn't the breakdown in North Korean border control that would allow North Koreans to take the treasonous step of leaving the workers' paradise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without intending to be churlish about the Roh administration&#8217;s welcome mat, the rise in numbers also reflects the rise in SUPPLY of refugees and timing of the worst of the famine in North Korea, which peaked in 1998, under DJ. In earlier administrations, there wasn&#8217;t the breakdown in North Korean border control that would allow North Koreans to take the treasonous step of leaving the workers&#8217; paradise.</p>
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		<title>By: dogbertt</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/#comment-34028</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbertt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2754#comment-34028</guid>
		<description>Wouldn't Seoul consider it a significant loss of face were it to allow the United States to accept North Korean refugees (who, as others have pointed out, are legally and factually South Korean citizens)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t Seoul consider it a significant loss of face were it to allow the United States to accept North Korean refugees (who, as others have pointed out, are legally and factually South Korean citizens)?</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/#comment-34026</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2754#comment-34026</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Anyway, I just find it a tad disingenuous to suggest that the sole country taking in North Korean refugees isn’t doing enough when no one else is helping out. And I also think that, despite the kowtowing of the preening Chung Dong-young, the Roh Administration does deserve some credit for allowing in more refugees than all other administrations combined.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Except that under the Republic of Korea's Constitution, those poor bastards are &lt;b&gt;citizens&lt;/b&gt; of the Republic of Korea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Anyway, I just find it a tad disingenuous to suggest that the sole country taking in North Korean refugees isn’t doing enough when no one else is helping out. And I also think that, despite the kowtowing of the preening Chung Dong-young, the Roh Administration does deserve some credit for allowing in more refugees than all other administrations combined.</p></blockquote>
<p>Except that under the Republic of Korea&#8217;s Constitution, those poor bastards are <b>citizens</b> of the Republic of Korea.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/#comment-34023</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2754#comment-34023</guid>
		<description>OK, just add "K.E.L.B." or "Angry Expat Commentariat" after things like that so we know who you're addressing  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, just add &#8220;K.E.L.B.&#8221; or &#8220;Angry Expat Commentariat&#8221; after things like that so we know who you&#8217;re addressing  <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: kushibo</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/#comment-34021</link>
		<dc:creator>kushibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2754#comment-34021</guid>
		<description>No, Michael, I am not. I am mentioning that because it has long been a common theme among some in the Korea-related English-language blogosphere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Michael, I am not. I am mentioning that because it has long been a common theme among some in the Korea-related English-language blogosphere.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/23/is-the-us-changing-its-policy-on-north-korean-defectors/#comment-34018</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2754#comment-34018</guid>
		<description>Kushibo, I hope you aren't saying it's "a tad disingenuous to suggest that the sole country taking in North Korean refugees isn't doing enough when no one else is helping out" about me, because that's a massive stretch of an interpretation from my comments and isn't my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kushibo, I hope you aren&#8217;t saying it&#8217;s &#8220;a tad disingenuous to suggest that the sole country taking in North Korean refugees isn&#8217;t doing enough when no one else is helping out&#8221; about me, because that&#8217;s a massive stretch of an interpretation from my comments and isn&#8217;t my opinion.</p>
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