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‘Only thing American about Michelle Wie is her passport’

You’ll be relieved to know that according to her dad, Michelle Wie is completely Korean:

Michelle Wie’s father Wie Byung-wook, a professor of transportation at the University of Hawaii, agreed to a telephone interview with the Chosun Ilbo on Thursday.
“I’m well aware there that some say, since Michelle Wie is an American why is she making such a fuss. But you know what, the only thing about her that’s American is her passport, she is “definitely” Korean.” The golfer’s favorite dish is “rice with pork Kimchi soup with extra tofu and toasted seaweed on the side.” Her mouth waters when she hears about Bossam (boiled pork) or steamed codfish, and Soondae (Korean sausage) and Deokbokki (broiled rice pasta with Korean chilli paste sauce). She may have been born in America but her first words were Korean, and she did not start learning English until after she was attending school.

But perhaps this is just the way of the future:

Wie cannot forget the time when she played golf with former president Bill Clinton at the end of October of last year. Clinton reportedly told Wie that she would be a leader for minorities in America in the future, and in the near future the U.S. will be a country where the minorities become majority.

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  • http://sungnyemun.org/wordpress/ dda

    Nice to see immigrants integrate so well into their foster country. Maybe uscis could do something about her passport?

  • slim

    And in a “completely Korean” household, the father always speaks for the womenfolk.

  • cm

    That’s how older first generation Korean immigrants think. Why is this news? But I bet you Michelle Wie doesn’t think the same way.

  • oranckay

    Well said, slim. Almost wonder if M feels embarassed at what father is saying.

    Here he is:

    http://www.tim.hawaii.edu/about_tim/faculty_&_staff/index.php?profile=bjwie

  • slim

    I saw her on Letterman a while back, and she had impressive poise for any 15-year-old, and arguably more than I would expect from an ROK college co-ed.

  • http://bluejives.net/blog bluejives

    So what?

    Why should Michelle Wie deny the Korean side of her heritage?

    Is there something wrong with this?

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    If he had said, “She is Hawaiian” it would have made more sense.

    I don’t follow her much, or the stuff about her father, but this is the first thing I’ve read that made me give him a big thumbs down.

    From what little I’ve heard from Tiger Woods and his parents, he seems to have a better handle on things when it comes to race or ethnic identity.

    But, who really cares?

    They play golf well.

    They need to do some things spectacular off the grass to warrant something more than a lot of kudos for being great at golf.

    If this were Jackie Robinson in the American culture of that era breaking into MLB, well, that’s different, isn’t it.

  • http://bluejives.net/blog bluejives

    …but this is the first thing I’ve read that made me give him a big thumbs down.

    Well, what’s wrong with it then? I’m genuinely curious.

  • slim

    I certainly had no doubt she would be proud of her Korean heritage and have no complaints whatsoever with that.

    But I wonder why the Chosun needs reassuring on this (or feel the Korean nation needs it). And why not talk to Michelle herself, instead of her father?

    I guess if Korea had quality journalism or even unremarkably ordinary journalism, many blogs would almost be out of business.

  • Sonagi

    @Bluejives: Did you read what Dad said? He didn’t simply acknowledge Michelle’s Korean heritage. He negated her entire life spent growing up in the US by saying, “The only thing about her that’s American is her passport.” Seems like Dad is appealing to the baser elements of Korean nationalism to make his daughter more attractive to advertisers in Korea.

  • Sonagi

    Robert,

    It would be interesting to know exactly what was said in Korean. I did a search at the Chosun Ilbo and couldn’t find a Korean version of the story. If there is a Korean version, could you provide a link?

  • slim

    “The only thing about Robert Kim that’s American is his passport” — and, one hopes, his prison rape ‘roids!

  • gbevers

    I like reading Slim’s comments. Always short and sweet.

    It seems that gypos are often looked down on in Korea society until one of them is successful, and then he or she is welcomed back into the fold.

  • Sambek_ZX

    gbevers: I would disagree with that observation in part.

    From what I’ve experienced, being a gyopo who lived in Korea for 5 years, gyopos are not looked down upon, but are very much envied, especially successful gyopos. Many Koreans would love to go overseas to become gyopos themselves (just look at the number of language hagwons on any given street). If there is any disdain for gyopos by domestic Koreans, it is rooted in envy, exacerbated by the gyopos who come back to Korea to flaunt their successes.

    However, I’ve encountered very little animosity in Korea, personally. You’d have to come across as an arrogrant American prick to get people of your own ethnicity to hate you for being a gyopo. In spite of myself, the domestic Koreans were very forgiving of my cultural gaffes and were eager to educate me about Korean culture. And unlike with white foreigners, gyopos actually have a great chance at being accepted into the social “inner circle”. However, this is where I agree with you. Gyopos, especially English-speaking 2nd generation gyopos, are not immediately accepted and are viewed as outsiders. However, given time (success in the name of the fatherland definitely speeds things up), they are eventually accepted as one of their own.

    The only time I’ve ever been berated in Korea for being a gyopo was by a taxi cab driver who lectured me throughout the trip that people who look Korean should be able to speak Korean, no matter where they lived. He wasn’t being mean, but as I was a middle schooler at the time, so his age superiority gave him some leeway in being so forward.

  • Sambek_ZX

    errr. I meant “looked down upon” not “looked upon”.

  • iheartblueballs

    Two words: Hines Ward. Two more: Christina Kim. Final two words: Ed Bradley.

    BJ Wie saw Hines Ward’s trip to Korea, and all the adulation, endorsements, presidential meetings, endorsements, first pitches, endorsements, media throng, endorsements, and also endorsements…and he decided that the easiest way to suck money out of Korean companies and guarantee another revenue stream is to play to Korean nationalism and “oneness” like a fiddle…laughing all the way to the bank.

    The easiest way to do that is to rattle off a list of Korean foods, tv shows, and music….”Oh, Michelle likes soondae! She’s just like me! You mean she enjoys kimchi chiggye and hates pizza and hamburgers! Wie likes watching talent get beat with rubber hammers on X-Men? Me too! Where do I purchase the products she endorses!?!?! DAE HAN MINGUK!!!”

    BJ Wie is not only fully in control, but you can bet that he’s dealt with the Korean press long enough to know which buttons to push to keep the suckers fawning and throwing cash at his family.

    When Wie is in Japan, he’ll be telling the Japanese press about how much she loves Japanese food and studies Japanese because it’s her “favorite.” In fact, if you watched the 60 minutes piece on her a few weeks ago, Ed Bradley talked more about Wie’s love of Japan and her study of the Japanese language than they did about anything Korean.

    And when he’s speaking to a gaggle of American reporters, he’ll tell them how proud Michelle is to be American and that there’s nothing in the world she values more than her American passport, American friends, American education, American food, and all things American. Ask Ed Bradley. When the bit about Michelle loving Japan was over, they went through a full segment about Michelle being a “typical American teenager,” hanging out at the mall, getting her drivers license, gossiping with friends, eating fast food, going to high school dances.

    His daughter is a virtual ATM, spitting out money wherever she goes, and you can be damn sure that he’ll tug the heart strings of whoever the nationality of the day is to keep the money flowing. It just so happens that tugging the Korean strings is easier and produces Pavlovian reactions much faster than any other.

    I’m sure he also learned a valuable lessons from the beating that Christina Kim (Korean-American golfer) took from the Korean media when she dared to say that she was proud to play for the American team in the Solheim Cup and wore an American flag buff while she was playing. That poor woman was reduced to tears from the flood of criticism and shit she took from Korean reporters calling her a traitor because of her “American” behavior and her fashion choice of wearing the Stars and Stripes.

    When Michelle plays for the USA in the Solheim Cup, BJ will be speaking out both sides of his mouth. On one side he’ll be telling Jim Lampley “what an honor it is for his daughter to play for America.” And out of the other side he’ll be telling the Chosun Ilbo that “Michelle is representing Koreans on an international scale and making them proud. And PS…she ate kimchi for breakfast and listened to Rain on her IRiver! Oh my!”

  • http://21cseonbi.blogspot.com sewing

    IRiver?

  • http://21cseonbi.blogspot.com sewing
  • gyopa

    I could not agree more, iheartblueballs.

    Dad and Mom are going to have a hard time reining in their freespeaking American gal (re: Ed Bradley). I can just imagine the ire of the ajjushis when Michelle gloats about beating them silly on the golf courses.

  • solidstatesurvivor

    Unfortunately, most “netizens” on naver don’t buy Mr. Wie’s claim. Just to get the record straight, Christina Kim was criticized not because of her American behavior, but because South Koreans thought that she (or her parents) was taking advantage of Koreans by playing the Korean card in Korea while being American. The same goes with Yoo Seungjoon, or Steve Yoo. Hines Ward, on the other hand, had no intention of making profits in South Korea by claiming to be (culturally) Korean, and there’s an enormous amount of sense of guilt attached to his case in the South Korean mindset..

  • http://kushibo.blogspot.com kushibo

    “The only thing about Robert Kim that’s American is his passport” — and, one hopes, his prison rape ‘roids!

    In the American correctional system they allow steroids to faciliate prison rape? That doesn’t seem particularly advisable.

  • Mizar5

    Pretty stupid stuff, and pretty standard.

  • Origami

    This guy’s slicker than “Slick Willy.”

    Wouldn’t surprise me if this is all just a publicity stunt to suck up to Korean endorsement deals.

    ‘Enjoy watching her though. Great drama at Nabisco Championships, if anyone happened to catch it. I believe she’s going to be playing at a Korean Event, coming up. Fun to watch. She was featured on “60 Minutes” recently.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhGPdVmbVYk

    http://www.mylpga.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=15

  • http://www.occidentalism.org shakuhachi

    “In the American correctional system they allow steroids to faciliate prison rape? That doesn’t seem particularly advisable.”

    They do. Its horrible but probably acts as a deterrent to crime as well.

  • iheartblueballs

    Replace any references to Ed Bradley above with Steve Kroft. I got the Tiger and Wie interviews cornfused.

    At least Bluejives can brag about how similar he is to Wie now. You know…the only thing American about them both are their passports. I just wonder if Michelle sleeps with her passport under her pillow like ol jivesy does, and if she denigrates Americans as arrogant morons like bluej has been known to do.

    No wonder jivesy likes her so much…he’s secretly hoping she’s part of the “Hate America but cling to the blue passport like a teddy bear” club that he’s so proud to be a part of.

  • http://www.occidentalism.org shakuhachi

    Oops. Missed the bit about steriods. I mean regular homosexual rape.

  • adinfinitum

    Oh, crap. Only a bunch of prominent Korean Americans loudly and publicly expressing their undying devotion and unwavering loyalty to America could possibly counteract this idiotic, ethno-centric, patently racist blather (racist because he assumes, or at least exploits the assumption, that anyone of Korean or Asian descent can’t “really” be American). Of course, you can count the number of influential or famous Korean Americans on one hand, barely. Actually, Michelle Wie is probably just about it. Crap. How many people actually know that former high-ranking DOJ and State officials like John Yoo and Harold Koh just happen to be of Korean descent? Maybe five?

    I have a dream, that one day an American of Korean descent will become a cultural icon in the U.S. and internationally. He will say things that will really piss off the Korean press and excitable Koreans in general. And in time, people will stop asking us where we “really come from”. I have a dream today. (Of course, if I’m dreaming about this, we’ve come a long way since the 60′s.)

    My only consolation is that blogs like this and the Chosunilbo have a miniscule, neglibile readership (wishful thinking?). The MSM better not pick up on this. The Korean American “community”, however, needs to get medieval on Mr. Wie and anybody else like him. Thank you, Mr. Wie, for making life as an American minority just a bit more harrowing.

    Words like his, and the words of others like him, will come back to bite everybody in the ass if Al Qaeda ever starts recruiting in S. Korea, if they’re not doing so already. But like Cassandra, my warnings remain unheeded…

  • umetaro

    If he had said, “She is Hawaiian” it would have made more sense.

    I’m not sure how long he’s lived in Hawaii, but I’m sure his daughter would not have let him say that. In Hawaii, there are clear distinctions between “Hawaiians” (the ethnic natives) and people who grew up and live there. There’s also a big difference between Korean Americans in the mainland and a Korean American raised in Hawaii.

    Why are some of you folks so harsh on her, anyway? If I was that young, could hit a ball with a stick real well AND get paid for it… I’d be all over that marketing cash. Real estate in Hawaii is expensive!

  • iheartblueballs

    Direct quote from the 60 minutes piece:

    (Steve Kroft): To her friends at Punaho High, she’s just another junior. (White American female friend):”She lives her life just like us. We all go to the movies, we all go shopping. Even if she’s halfway around the world, text messages. We text a lot.”

    Funny, her friends didn’t say “We’re all Americans, but Michelle is definitely Korean. We eat pizza, and she eats soondae. We go to American movies, and she will only watch Korean dramas. We shop at the Gap, and she shops separately at Korean markets.”

    Lesson #1 here: BJ Wie is a douchebag.

    I guarantee if he gave Michelle a choice between…

    (A) Living in an apartment in Kangnam, not being able to drive or have a car, going to a Korean high school and hakwons 16 hours a day, not dating, having her hair cut like a bowl by her Korean teacher, wearing school uniforms all day, looking forward to SNU, and hanging out at COEX with her green Korean passport…

    or

    (B) Living on a massive estate in a mansion in Hawaii, driving her convertible, going to an American high school, going to prom and dating, wearing hot-ass dresses on Letterman, hanging out at the beach, looking forward to Stanford, and hanging out in San Francisco with her blue American passport…

    …not a solitary chance in hell she considers (A) for a nano-second.

    She’ll be “definitely Korean” from the time she steps off the plane at Incheon, during the 4-5 days she’s in Korea collecting checks, and during her walk through the airport on her way home. The rest of her life, she’s an American, whether BJ likes it or not. Show her the life of the average “definitely Korean” teenage girl, and she’ll run back to her American high school, freedom, and friends in the blink of an eye.

    Just like you’d never see Hines Ward wearing a hanbok in Pittsburgh, you’ll never see Michelle Wie wearing one in Honolulu. They’ll wear one in Seoul and play the returning son or daughter if, and only if, they get paid. They’re Koreans for hire only, and anyone that believes they’d take the full-time job with all it entails, is a fool.

    I seem to remember baduk laying down quite a screed on another post about how patriotic and devoted Korean Americans are to America. I wonder how he and other KA’s (who have to defend themselves against the perception that Robert Kim was only speaking the unwritten rule of loyalty to the motherland and that a majority of KA’s really feel the same way) are going to react to BJ Wie promoting opportunistic passport nationalism.

    When BJ made the “The only thing American about her is her passport” statement, a decent reporter for the Chosun Ilbo would have responded with “Well if her passport is the only thing standing in the way of her becoming Korean, why not trade blue for green?” But we all know that “decent” and “Korean reporter” go together like oil and water.

    In fact I’ve asked ol jivesy the same question about the blue for green trade if his principles are so strong and us arrogant, moronic Americans are too much for him to handle, but he’s refused to answer that prickly conundrum, just as I’m sure BJ would refuse. BJ wouldn’t trade Honolulu for Seoul, not a chance. Actions, as jivesy well knows, speak louder than words.

  • http://www.sperwerslog.com Sperwer

    Kushibo:

    “The only thing about Robert Kim that’s American is his passport” — and, one hopes, his prison rape ‘roids!

    In the American correctional system they allow steroids to faciliate prison rape? That doesn’t seem particularly advisable.”

    Earth to Kushibo (and Shakuhachi): The ‘roids in question are the ones on which you apply a soothing ointment.

  • http://bluejives.net/blog bluejives

    Who’s the bigger asshole? The father who insists his daughter is Korean or the anonymous expat who insists she isnt? It’s pretty much a mirror hypocrisy, no? Well, at least BJ Wie is her father after all and can vouch for his own flesh and blood. What the heck does a nobody like BlueBalls here feel the need to get his panties all in a twist for anyway? If BlueBalls is so patriotic and turning Red White and Blue in the face, what the heck is he doing in Korea in the first place? Am I the only one who sees the irony in all this?

  • Origami

    iheartblueballs:

    You are hilarious. Only reason why I come here. So what is your connection to Korea?

    Anyway, I think there are some KA’s who definately have inferiority complex.

    Personally, I have no hangups about being a Korean-American. I mean, If I had to choose between Korea and America, I’d have to choose America. I’m not an idiot.

  • http://asiapages.typepad.com/ jodi

    OK at first this really made my blood boil until someone pointed out to me that:

    a) Her father isn’t too well-liked in the world of golf in the first place.

    b) He’s just taking the easy route when it comes to marketing his daughter for Korean endorsements

    and

    c) I’m sure he probably emphasizes how American she is when he’s fishing for endorsements with US companies.

    Don’t get me wrong, what he said was wrong and insulting but if you look at the source it’s coming from, I guess we should just dismiss this as a worthless comment coming from a worthless human being.

    If I were Michelle, I’d find myself a new spokesman and tell Daddy to stay on the sidelines.

  • http://asiapages.typepad.com/ jodi

    Clarification: When I say “sidelines” I mean stay out of her golfing affairs and just be a supportive dad, not an obnoxious prick. I realize he is no longer her caddy and literally does watch from behind the ropes.

  • ghola

    regarding kA’s definitely having “inferiority complex”

    what makes you so uniquely qualified to make such an assertion ? If certain people have low self esteem, they have low self esteem.. And if they happen to be of a korean heritage, they have a complex ?.. then, you must have shit for brains complex.

    Hey, I’ve lived in ny for almost thirty years. Having said that…I can honestly say..the only thing american about me, is my u.s passport.. I’ve shredded my u.s citizenship document..gleefuly. bunch of racist pigs.

    and to some of you who makes those snide comments about trading a blue for a green… I say, who the flock are you ?
    and my parting words to all of those who has passed judgement on b.j wie based on a heavily edited article written by a junior writer… get a life. bunch of friggin losers. Go and flock yourself why don’t you ?

  • iheartblueballs

    Who’s the bigger asshole?

    The answer to that question will always be bluejives, unless the alternative is nulji.

    It’s pretty much a mirror hypocrisy, no?

    No. BJ Wie gave up green for blue. He took an oath. If he didn’t believe the oath, he shouldn’t have taken it. If he doesn’t believe it now, go the fuck back to green. Everything he and his family have he owes to blue. If he thinks Michelle attains Tiger-like status and money growing up in Korea, he’s a fool. And if BJ doesn’t appreciate what kind of riches the land of opportunity brought he and his daughter, he ought to go the fuck back to green. And if, like jives, he insists on clinging to blue while simultaneously denigrating it and all it stands for, he should expect to be called to the carpet for being the ungrateful fuckwad that he is. Just like my pal jives.

    Well, at least BJ Wie is her father after all and can vouch for his own flesh and blood.

    Funny that Michelle and her friends don’t agree with that vouching. BJ knows where his daughter’s bread gets buttered, and it’s not anywhere near Korea.

    What the heck does a nobody like BlueBalls here feel the need to get his panties all in a twist for anyway?

    Because the only thing worse than blueness of the balls is straightness of the panties.

    If BlueBalls is so patriotic and turning Red White and Blue in the face, what the heck is he doing in Korea in the first place?

    Easy. I’m not in Korea in the first place. You’d think you’d have picked that fact up the first hundred times I said it. I don’t live there.

    Am I the only one who sees the irony in all this?

    Seeing as how I don’t live in Korea and there’s no irony involved, the answer to your question is yes. You’re the only one dumb enough to see irony where none exists.

    That offer of blue for green is still out there jivesy ol chap. Your motherland desperately needs you in its battle against the evil expat. Why do you insist on turning your back on your brothers and sisters in their time of need in favor of cavorting with arrogant morons in the land of the Big Mac? Tangun is crying in his soju as we speak at the thought of your betrayal.

  • iheartblueballs

    Seems the old man may want to check with his daughter before he goes listing her Korean bonafides, because he’s looking more foolish by the minute.

    BJ Wie, professional douchebag: “But you know what, the only thing about her that’s American is her passport, she is “definitely” Korean.”

    Michelle Wie: “I’m very proud of who I am, being a Korean-American and being a (Hawai’i) citizen and American citizen. I’m very proud of that.”
    http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Mar/26/sp/FP603260365.html

    BJ Wie, professional douchebag: “She may have been born in America but her first words were Korean, and she did not start learning English until after she was attending school.”

    Michelle Wie: “I learned most of the letters of the alphabet before I turned 1 and learned to read before I turned 2. My parents are so proud of that. My very first memory is going down by the pool in the apartment where we lived and reading the sign that said, “Warning: Don’t dive.” I didn’t know what it meant, but I could read it and knew it had something to do with danger.”

    http://www.golfdigest.com/features/index.ssf?/features/gd200408myshot.html

    Funny that BJ thinks that Koreans will look more favorably on Michelle if they believe that she only learned English as a last resort for school. Unfortunately, it’s a lie. Or maybe Michelle’s brain has been implanted with false memories by an evil Japanese scientist.

  • http://bluejives.net/blog bluejives

    Oh give me a break, you’re too much.

    There is no celestial mandate which states that a Korean-American cannot profess affinity for the motherland. If that threatens you, that’s your problem.

    If you’re so concerned about traitors, take a good look at the Benedict Arnold CEOs and the politicians, they’re doing a fine job of selling out America already!

  • Origami

    This is better than Comedy Channel.

  • slim

    I think you’re off the mark here, bluejives, and sonagi nailed it with: “He didn’t simply acknowledge Michelle’s Korean heritage. He negated her entire life spent growing up in the US…”

    Noone questioned her loyalties or her right to claim her heritage — it is the shameless pandering by aboji and (to me, at least) the Chosun’s shoddy reporting and onanistic nationalism that are the issues here. Michelle will no doubt do fine in her life, but I have to think that an ordinary Korean-American trying to make his/her way in society would be appalled by a blowhard father making those kind of remarks about the passport.

    Robert and Oranckay I believe both translated for the Chosun in recent times. Aren’t there any overseers of the English website who can step in and say of these dubious stories: “This is shite!”?

  • iheartblueballs

    There is no celestial mandate which states that a Korean-American cannot profess affinity for the motherland. If that threatens you, that’s your problem.

    And there’s also no celestial mandate which states that I can’t call you or BJ Wie ungrateful douchebags worthy of deportation for taking all the benefits of the passport and then trashing the country, people, and principles behind it while professing your “affinity for the motherland,” be it for profit in Wie’s case, or just for pure hatred of America and Americans in yours.

    Just a reminder, because some of you obviously need it: “I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    iheartblueballs,

    I agree with you. KAs are Americans and we have to and we will bear arms against Koreans.

    I have said this a few posts back and some asked me how?

    Well, whatever you and other Koreans may think, KoreanAmericans are not much different from ItalianAmericans, PolishAmericans or IrishAmericans.

    When the WWII broke, ItalianAmericans enlist in the U.S. military and fought and killed Italian soldiers in Italy. When Poland became a satellite of USSR, PolishAmericans were loyal to America.

    The same thing. We, KAs, have different skin colors but we are Americans. Our parents are here in Good Ol’ USA and our women and children live here. We are Americans, red,white and blue. Apple Pie and Baseball and all. We are not white, but within 20 years, the U.S. will not be white, either.

    So, don’t bring up Wie’s father selling her daughter to Korean press or stupid acts of Robert Kim.

    Think of about 20 Koreans dead in the 9/11 incident and KAs serving in Iraq. Yes, we are Americans!

  • http://kushibo.blogspot.com kushibo

    Sperwer wrote:

    “The only thing about Robert Kim that’s American is his passport” — and, one hopes, his prison rape ‘roids!

    In the American correctional system they allow steroids to faciliate prison rape? That doesn’t seem particularly advisable.”

    Earth to Kushibo (and Shakuhachi): The ‘roids in question are the ones on which you apply a soothing ointment.

    Earth to Sperwer: I was making a joke, albeit an indiscernibly opaque one. Yes, ‘roids can refer to hemmorhoids, which someone might get if subjected to Ozian treatment in a correctional facility. But it also commonly refers to steroids, which someone in a correction facility probably should not be taking.

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    I, myself, have served in the U.S. Navy as an officer for four challenging years. I am grateful for the U.S. government for giving me the opportunity to serve the greatest nation on earth.

    I am loyal to the U.S.A.

    And, I will kill Koreans if they join up with China or Japan and attack America. I will be shouting as Japanese American soldier did at Pearl Harbor, “Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition”. He was shooting at Jap Zeroes.

    I am an American, a KoreanAmerican with stress in the second part.

  • adinfinitum

    This is a funny thread. We need more people like iheartblueballs.

    The great, unprecedented, dynamic melting pot that is America only exists because ethno-centric nationalists make up a tiny minority within a minority within a minority (or majority if you’re talking about Caucasians). Otherwise, in a hundred years, we’d end up looking like the Balkans. What the Wie article conveys has nothing to do with acknowledging or even respecting one’s ethnic heritage. This is all about playing the race/nationalist card for opportunistic gain, which is morally reprehensible.

  • adinfinitum

    Baduk–Amen to that. But, trust me, you’ll have to repeat yourself incessantly for the rest of your life and most of your efforts will be in vain. Even if you had access to a nation-wide press conference to air your views, it still wouldn’t matter. People find racial stereotypes comforting. Complex, nuanced thought is difficult for most people. Simplify, simplify. For any minority (ethnic and otherwise), the bad apples in the group always get far more attention than the vast majority of good ones. Things won’t change until there are so many Asian Americans that the stigma of being viewed as the “perpetual foreigner” begins to die away.

    That said, it’s rather disturbing that we have to go to great lengths to convince some of our fellow Americans that we’re willing to kill the enemy, regardless of what he looks like, in order to defend the U.S. and U.S. interests. Talk about morbid, and sad. As if being white guaranteed loyalty to the U.S. Two words: Timothy McVeigh.

    Assimilation/integration is a two-way street, so I wonder when people will stop making incredibly offensive assumptions about Americans with Korean or Asian faces. The only thing worse than getting your ass kicked or being called one of the many colorful racial epithets in our collective lexicon, is having your loyalty questioned just because you don’t “look” American.

  • tamaki

    It looks like Koreans tend to be proud about their blood more than the Japanese. Generally, we don’t know about Eric Shinseki, nor Norman Mineta because they are not reported
    in the media (I’ve spent some years in the states, that’s why I happen to know).

    In Japan, we have the same sort of problem about Korean immigrants especially who have a North Korean nationality; the “Chosen Soren” which is group connected with North Korean has cooperated in kidnapping Japanese citezens.

    I really don’t care about peoples’ nationalities but I wish
    them to be loyal to where they have moved and most Koreans in Japan are likely to be immigrants or refugees(of the Korean war). A good example is Sadaharu Oh, although he is still a Taiwanese but has let the Japanese teams win the WBC.

  • tamaki

    The police have been investigating “Chosen Soren” and cities are not giving favorable tax rates any more. Of course I don’t mean anyone who has a North Korean nationality should be kicked out from Japan; I just want them to love Japan because they came here by their own will.

  • dogbertt

    Michelle Wie is hardly Robert Kim.

    I read an article on naver news recently about Wie and many of the comments from “netizens” were quite vicious. I think it’s quite possible that her father is merely trying to defuse some of that sentiment that exists among some Koreans that Wie has not acknowledged her Korean heritage.

    As long as she keeps playing well, who cares? More power to her.

  • dogbertt

    Of course, you can count the number of influential or famous Korean Americans on one hand, barely. Actually, Michelle Wie is probably just about it. Crap. How many people actually know that former high-ranking DOJ and State officials like John Yoo and Harold Koh just happen to be of Korean descent? Maybe five?

    Don’t be an idiot. Professor Yoo is certainly well known, and not just by Boalt graduates. A lot of us heard of Harold Koh years ago. For that matter, Ronald Moon is also a prominent figure.

    Ah well, that’s still one hand. I have high hopes for nulji and bluejives to break through though.

  • dogbertt

    Talk about morbid, and sad. As if being white guaranteed loyalty to the U.S. Two words: Timothy McVeigh.

    I’m going to have to say this again.

    McVeigh, horrible as his actions were, had as his goal the betterment of the U.S. He did not act in the interests of a foreign power.

    Robert Kim’s loyalty was to a foreign nation, South Korea.

  • dogbertt

    I, myself, have served in the U.S. Navy as an officer for four challenging years. I am grateful for the U.S. government for giving me the opportunity to serve the greatest nation on earth.

    I am loyal to the U.S.A.

    And, I will kill Koreans if they join up with China or Japan and attack America. I will be shouting as Japanese American soldier did at Pearl Harbor, “Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition”. He was shooting at Jap Zeroes.

    I am an American, a KoreanAmerican with stress in the second part.

    Baduk: “Koreans are smarter than you.”

  • Pingback: Marketing 101 at Lost Nomad

  • http://www.sperwerslog.com Sperwer

    Dogbert says:

    “I read an article on naver news recently about Wie and many of the comments from “netizens” were quite vicious. I think it’s quite possible that her father is merely trying to defuse some of that sentiment that exists among some Koreans that Wie has not acknowledged her Korean heritage.”

    Then shame on her old man for pandering to such people. If he were really smart, he’d blast the danilminjok crowd, while simply acknowledging both whatever he thinks worthwhile about his ethnic heritage and the opportunities afforded to both himself and his daughter by the States. In anything except the millimeter run, that would also serve his commercial interests better too.

  • http://hunjang.blogspot.com Antti

    The Korean language article on “sports and entertainment” pages of Chosun:

    “미셸 위는 미국인인데 왜 호들갑을 떠느냐고 하는 분들이 있다는 것 잘 압니다. 그런데 말이죠, 얘는 여권만 미국 것일 뿐이지 영락없는 한국아이에요.”

    미셸 위가 가장 좋아하는 식단은 “밥, 두부를 듬뿍 넣은 돼지고기 김치찌개, 그리고 구운 김”이다. 보쌈과 대구찜, 떡볶이와 순대 소리를 들으면 입맛을 다신다. 미국에서 태어났지만, 처음 배운 말은 한국어였고, 영어는 학교에 들어간 이후에 배우기 시작했다.

  • gaemee

    “I guess if Korea had quality journalism or even unremarkably ordinary journalism, many blogs would almost be out of business.”

    Agreed. Perhaps the American government would pressure the Korean counterpart to open up the media market at the FTA talks, and then they may be able to lift the game gradually, benefiting both countries.

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    Dogbertt,

    It is not right that you qoute me out of context, typical journalism trick to make someone look bad.

    I still don’t understand your logic about Tim McVeigh. Do you know how many people died in Oklahoma bombing? Yet, you want to make him look better than Robert Kim who leaked some worthless information to Korean Navy.

    So, in your logic, you will be happy if someone blows up your home and kill your family as long as he thinks he did for America? Let me introduce you to some Skinheads or Aryan Nation people. They “l-o-o-v-e” America, so much so that they will kill anyone who, they think, is not an American. Mainly people with different skin color. You seem to have the same attitude.

  • Katz

    Why make a great deal about it? And why people here felt offended for such a thing? Doesn’t he have the right to say which nationality they are from or are you trying to steal their nationality?

  • wjk

    don’t Italians or Irish who are US citizens tout much of their heritage as well? They seem to consider themselves more Italian or Irish than American, in my opinion. It’s an ethinic minority thing, not being part of the Anglo Saxon clan. Let it pass. No big deal.

  • Sonagi

    @Earth to Kushibo, Shakuhachi, and Sperwer:

    I got your pun the first time, Kushibo. Nice one!

    @Antti:

    Thanks for posting the original quote, which was translated accurately into English.

    @Katz and Bluejives:

    Michelle Wie and her dad have US citizenship, so their nationality is American. Dad, in fact, took an oath of loyalty in order to become an American. He can speak for himself, but he is wrong to speak for his daughter, and it is shameful that in his daughter’s name, he would spit on adopted country, the country where his daughter was born and raised. As evidence of his daughter’s Korean identity , he cites her early exposure to Korean and her love of Korean food. How trite that something as profound and complex as one’s national identity is reduced down to eating “bossam.” I love to express myself in the Korean language and eat Korean food, but that does not make me Korean.

    His daughter is a highly successful golfer who can look forward to lucrative marketing contracts in North America. Dad didn’t need to sell out his wealthy daughter.

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    I didn’t make it through the last 1/3rd of the comments.

    I can’t remember the person who wrote about society in Hawaii, but it is well worth reading.

    Hawaii is a very unique place. I can’t speak for the other islands beyond Oahu and the Honolulu area, but growing up in Hawaii is very different from growing up anywhere else in the US.

    That is why I said if he had said she thinks of herself as more Hawaiian than American it might make more sense, but still wouldn’t since they consider Hawaiians to be real ethnic Hawaiians rather than being born there.

    Hawaii has such a big mix of all kinds of ethnic groups, and it has a somewhat typical beach and warm climate mentality, it is just unique in the US.

    But from what I saw, the older generations of immigrants, especially those who came to the US, would be more likely to get pissed off if you told them they were not American than say they weren’t.

    And with the 2nd and 3rd generations, many of the ones I knew treated their ethnicity not too much unlike an Italian or Irish guy born several generations into American society.

    I actually can’t remember meeting a Blue Jives in Hawaii, and I met a lot of Koreans there. I did meet one, but he was from Texas and there for university —- [his email was "unification1"]……and I met a few of him while I was in Korea.

  • adinfinitum

    Re: dogbertt’s comments

    1)

    I sincerely doubt the general public is as familiar with John Yoo, et al., as it is with Michelle Wie. Most people, for that matter, probably wouldn’t know who sits on the Supreme Court or whatnot, because what news junkies may consider “common knowledge” is not so common for the average American.

    2)

    “McVeigh, horrible as his actions were, had as his goal the betterment of the U.S. He did not act in the interests of a foreign power.”

    -And? What McVeigh did was still, by definition, treason. You can act in your own interest or in accordance with an ideology and still commit treason. Also, the “betterment of the U.S.” for whom? What exactly was his goal? What’s your view of his goal? (Really, as you’ve pointed out, I’m an idiot, so enlighten me.)

    3)

    Since you bring up Robert Kim (again), why are you so obsessed with this guy? Most people (even most Korean Americans), don’t even know who he is, and the majority of those who do surely have no sympathy for the guy.

  • Origami

    dogbertt:”Ah well, that’s still one hand. I have high hopes for nulji and bluejives to break through though.”

    ———————————————————-

    Actually, there are many Korean-American/Canadian Actors on TV these days.

    http://img203.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gracepark2b3nt.jpg

  • kpmsprtd

    iheartblueballs wrote:

    As someone who was born and raised in the U.S., I could swear to this oath, subject to some slight personal interpretation. That is, I get to define who my foreign enemies are, and I get to define who my domestic enemies are.

    I have to do a similar personal interpretation when I recite the Pledge of Allegiance weekly. (Don’t ask. You’ll find out when you join a Toastmasters club in the U.S.) All around me, people are pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth, but I’m pledging allegiance to my family, friends, and neighbors. Then again, maybe everyone reserves the right to do their own personal interpretations of oaths and pledges. For democracy’s sake, I hope so.

    Later,
    kpmsprtd

  • kpmsprtd

    Reposting because of lost quote. (I used some apparently illegal characters.)

    iheartblueballs wrote:
    “Just a reminder, because some of you obviously need it: “I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.””

    As someone who was born and raised in the U.S., I could swear to this oath, subject to some slight personal interpretation. That is, I get to define who my foreign enemies are, and I get to define who my domestic enemies are.

    I have to do a similar personal interpretation when I recite the Pledge of Allegiance weekly. (Don’t ask. You’ll find out when you join a Toastmasters club in the U.S.) All around me, people are pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth, but I’m pledging allegiance to my family, friends, and neighbors. Then again, maybe everyone reserves the right to do their own personal interpretations of oaths and pledges. For democracy’s sake, I hope so.

    Later,
    kpmsprtd

  • cm

    USA reminds me of the French Soccer Team. All the white people are missing.

    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?p=2907871#post2907871

  • http://bluejives.net/blog bluejives

    2000 years ago, the Apostle Paul identified himself first and foremost a Jew and a Pharisee. When he spoke to fellow Jews, he spoke in Aramaic; when he spoke to Roman officials, he spoke Greek. His Roman citizenship became relevant only after he was arrested. It meant that he was entitled to a trial. It was just a legal status.

    Whether in the Roman Empire of the past or the American Empire of today, citizenship is just a legal document. A passport is just a legal document. As long as you pay your tax and obey the law, Caesar or the Feddle Gummint, doesnt give a crap.

    How one choose how to identify himself is entirely a matter of free will. That’s all I have to say about that.

  • waygugin

    This seems like such a simple concept that it seems strange that I have to be the one who says it.

    If some immigrants take an oath of loyalty to a country and accept the benefits of citzenship but are not prepared to accept the responsibilities of being a citizen, then it puts a sour feeling in a lot of people’s mouths.

    An expat in a foreign country does not qualify in the same way. Sure an ex-pat is living somewhere and making a living, but he or she never claimed that he would give his loyalty to that host country. As a counsequence he or she does not have the full rights of a citizen and can more or less be arbitraily expelled by the officials. He or she is not obligated to do military service but he or she also cannot participate in shaping the laws that he or she lives under through the practice of voting and will face all sorts of legal discrimination.

    If Michelle’s Wie’s father spoke in Korean at home, and wanted to keep his daughter constantly exposed to Korean culture, in society that claims to be open and liberal that should be fine. But if his claims are true and has no intention of even trying to integrate, then it would seem he has lied and used the system to make his family rich. All he is doing is bragging that he rejects integrating with any part of American society. No that he cannot be expelled from the country why should anyone be happy with that?

    Are you saying that Korea should accept as citzens people who only want the passport so that it is easier to make money? Should Korea accept as citizens with full rights, people who reject everything about your society and culture. Should they be happy when prominant immigrants who have obtained citizenship now basically say that they lied and tricked you?

  • Mizar5

    Well, Blueballs, you’re wrong again, but why should that come as a surprise?

    This sort of thing is precisely why we Koreans will never be popular internationally and have no right to demand anything of the legal process in the US. If you don’t participate in the society you have no right to demand anything of it – that is the basic process of democracy.

    Yet we Koreans have really made out like bandits in American society. We live in our own communities and take our driver’s license tests in Korean and the parents of our wealthiy enterpreneurs collect welfare and are covered by medicaid.

    I was watching a program this morning featuring a Korean “supermodel” and was struck by the pretentious misappropriation of the term. She must be internationally famous, earning a 7-figure salary and sought after by the world’s most lucrative corporations. In other words, there are basic standards for a supermodel that no Korean model has every met. This is why there are virtually no known Korean celebrities abroad although there are numerous ones of Chinese, Japanese and other origins.

    Michelle’s father is just another racist Korean reactionary with pretentions of rarified purity who disdains mixing with the dirty outside races. Kind of like Blueballs.

  • http://www.sperwerslog.com Sperwer

    Kushibo wrote:

    Earth to Sperwer: I was making a joke, albeit an indiscernibly opaque one.

    Kushibo:

    Don’t give up your day job chasing the gig at the Comedy Club.

  • Mizar5

    By the way, Blueballs refers to the appropriately named Bluejives, famous for his self-important Korean suprecism -not the satirist with a similar name.

  • dogbertt

    It is not right that you qoute me out of context, typical journalism trick to make someone look bad.

    Baduk, your quote was a simple declaration. It stands on its own. If you think context would help, provide it.

    I still don’t understand your logic about Tim McVeigh. Do you know how many people died in Oklahoma bombing? Yet, you want to make him look better than Robert Kim.

    Look at it like this.

    Kim Il-sung was directly responsible for the deaths of far more Koreans than Lee Wan-yong.

    Yet ask Koreans who was the worse traitor and 9 out of 10 will answer: “Lee Wan-yong”.

    Wrap your head around that one, since you are “smarter than us”.

  • dogbertt

    Whether in the Roman Empire of the past or the American Empire of today, citizenship is just a legal document.

    That’s a very sad attitude.

    It is certainly not one that was espoused by our Founding Fathers or the succeeding generations who made our nation great.

    But bluejives’ sentiment is typical of the all-too-common modern opportunists of any race.

  • dogbertt

    By the way, you obviously have not studied history if your concept of Roman citizenship is so facile and fallacious.

  • iheartblueballs

    Michelle’s father is just another racist Korean reactionary with pretentions of rarified purity who disdains mixing with the dirty outside races. Kind of like Blueballs.

    Nice try halfwit. So anyone criticizing BJ Wie for pandering to Korean nationalist supremacists and simultaneously denigrating American culture by distancing his daughter from any influence of the country he pledged his loyalty to whatsoever, gains automatic entrance into the KKK, according to Mizar. A clear correlation, obvious to dumbasses worldwide. If you’re not intelligent enough to see the difference, perhaps you should stick to spewing fantasies on the Fighting 44s with jives.

    Your feeble attempt to lump legitimate criticism of an opportunistic, two-faced douchebag in with ignorant racial purists is laughable, at best. I’ve got nothing but respect and admiration for legal (and illegal for that matter)immigrants that come to this country, work hard to intergrate themselves, and become loyal, contributing citizens. America was built by immigrants and continues to be fueled by them. And acknowledging that fact doesn’t preclude me from exposing and criticizing the opportunistic, ungrateful leeches among them, of which BJ fits the bill perfectly.

    I’ve never said a word in here or in any other forum that could possibly be construed as supporting or agreeing with the horseshit racial purity ideology that, until Hines Ward caught a touchdown pass, was the unchallenged law of the land in Korea. In fact, if you look at my track record in several Hines Ward threads, you’ll see that I’ve probably been the harshest critic of that very mindset and the damage its wrought on Korea and its people. It’s a fucking disgrace and has done more to hamper the development of Korean society than just about any other factor with the exception of graft. So unless you’re willing to back up your bullshit charge, go ahead and shove it up back up your ass from whence it came. I realize it’s crowded up there with the rest of your half-cocked theories, but try and make room.

    BJ Wie deserves every bit of disdain I and others have thrown his way. Regardless of whether his comments were for Korean domestic consumption — intending to profit from negation of his daughter’s American upbringing — or whether he truly believes it, is irrelevant. He’s a slimeball either way and deseves to be criticized. Comments from several KA’s in this thread prove I’m not alone in that assessment. Funny, I didn’t hear you calling them racists. Just the white guy. Only a coincidence I’m sure. Hypocrite.

    Keep up the self-delusion and projection if it helps you sleep at night though. I realize it’s easier to write off every critic, sorry…every white critic…as David Duke than it is to deal with painful realities. It’s worked wonders for turning jives into a laughinstock. Who says it can’t do the same for you?

  • Katz

    Stealing Michelle Wie, that’s what foreigners here a trying to say?

  • http://asiapages.typepad.com/ jodi

    OK, I haven’t read every single comment here but can anyone answer for me how good Michelle’s spoken Korean is? I get the impression she can understand it, but how about actually speaking, reading and writing? If her speaking skills are poor, I hope Koreans can see through her father’s ridiculous comments about how truly Korean she is.

    Not to say that speaking the language means you are Korean but it would certainly severely damage his claim that the only thing American about her is her passport–I mean, to a nationalistic Korean audience it would, would it not?

    Any thoughts?

  • Katz

    Just because a Korean can’t speak his/her own language well doesn’t mean he/she is not Korean. I myself can’t speak Korean thoroughly though I was born there. But that doesn’t mean my heart isn’t there.

    If a Jew is born in any other country, he/she isn’t Jew? I don’t think so.

    What foreigners here are forcefully trying to change? I think they want to boast for little things like they boast about ipods, one of the few achievements in electronics.

  • Katz

    No one has any right in other personal rights.

  • adinfinitum

    Hey, iheartblueballs, I think you missed mizar5′s other post:

    “By the way, Blueballs refers to the appropriately named Bluejives, famous for his self-important Korean suprecism -not the satirist with a similar name.”

    So he wasn’t talking about you at all. In fact, if you reread his post, you’ll see that he seems to agree with you completely. His post would make absolutely no sense if he were directing his ire against you. But why he didn’t just write “Bluejives” in the first place is beyond me.

  • Origami

    Jodi:”OK, I haven’t read every single comment here but can anyone answer for me how good Michelle’s spoken Korean is? I get the impression she can understand it, but how about actually speaking, reading and writing? If her speaking skills are poor, I hope Koreans can see through her father’s ridiculous comments about how truly Korean she is.”

    ———————————————————————————————

    These posts are getting kind of ridiculous, but, her Korean is actually pretty good.

    http://tvnews.media.daum.net/part/sportstv/200604/19/imbc/v12438495.html

    You have to use IE to open the video.

    These posts remind me of David Chappelle’s sketch where people are arguing over celebrities with mixed heritage and and the audience has to decide who’s race they belong to.

  • iheartblueballs

    Never even saw the second post. If all his comments were directed towards jives, then disregard my diatribe with apologies. I didn’t think it was possible to confuse jives with balls.

  • http://asiapages.typepad.com/ jodi

    Katz, I was referring to a nationalistic Korean audience who I would think would define a true Korean as one would can speak the language well. It was by no means my personal opinion.

    But then again, when it comes to nationalism and Korea, it seems to me that the nationalists will pick and choose what they like and leave the rest alone. Anyway, I was just curious.

    Thanks for answering that Origami!

  • adinfinitum

    Dogbertt wrote:

    “Look at it like this.

    Kim Il-sung was directly responsible for the deaths of far more Koreans than Lee Wan-yong.

    Yet ask Koreans who was the worse traitor and 9 out of 10 will answer: “Lee Wan-yong”.”

    I don’t think we have to worry about S. Korea annexing the U.S. and 35-40 years of colonization as a result of Robert Kim’s treason. I suspect the American communists who gave our nuclear secrets to the Soviets in the 40′s and 50′s will be remembered by future generations (not to mention Robert Hanssen and others who spied for the USSR/Russia for years or even decades), but not an insignificant little traitor like Robert Kim.

    Besides, S. Korea has been an ally since its inception, although it hasn’t been very reliable in recent years. Don’t you think numerous Americans over decades selling nuclear or state secrets to a sworn enemy, a superpower intent on “crushing” us, is a lot worse than one guy selling secrets to what is, essentially, an occasionally irritating, and militarily inferior, ally?

    You also haven’t answered my earlier question (not that I expect anyone to care about or read anything I write). Is there a reason why you want to keep Robert Kim’s memory alive?

    Bluejives wrote:

    “Whether in the Roman Empire of the past or the American Empire of today, citizenship is just a legal document. A passport is just a legal document. As long as you pay your tax and obey the law, Caesar or the Feddle Gummint, doesnt give a crap.”

    Um, no. Where do I start? Let’s just say you have no idea what you’re talking about. America is a nation-state and a federal republic. The social fabric would unravel if American citizens only felt obligated to pay taxes and obey the law. If we ceased to share common American principles, values, and aspirations, why would we even bother to defend them or the country? How could our military possibly function? The absence of cultural, national unity in a sovereign state as incredibly diverse as the U.S. would render it impotent and vulnerable. E pluribus unum is one of our national mottos for a reason. The Pax Americana, and America itself, only exists because generations of immigrants from every inch of the globe and their descendants pooled together their collective talents, innovations, and industry to turn a bunch of erstwhile colonies into the only remaining superpower in the world. You can be sure citizenship was a helluva lot more than just a “legal document” to them as it continues to be for Americans today.

    In fact, many naturalized American citizens understand this even better than those of us who were born here, because it’s easy to take for granted all of the tangible and intangible benefits or privileges of being an American and the blessings we enjoy. Food for thought.

    One final note–perhaps we should only grant citizenship to the children of legal permanent residents. This could decrease the number of people who take advantage of our generosity and encourage newcomers to settle their roots firmly in the U.S.

  • http://bluejives.net/blog bluejives

    John Yoo and Harold Koh are not Koreans. They are neocons, just like Michelle Malkin.

    It’s pretty sad when apologists like Baduk and Mizar have to abase themselves, overcompensate, and turn their back on their Korean identity just to prove their “Americanness”. Baduk goes even far to state that he would kill other Koreans, if it came to that. Kinda reminds me of black cops. Yes, black cops are even harsher on black criminals because they have to prove something to their fellow white cops.

    What this all proves is that America is not really a free nation. When minorities feel compelled to turn into neocons with facist ideas and resort to persecuting fellow minorities in order to prove something, that is not freedom.

  • http://bluejives.net/blog bluejives

    Adinfinitum,

    The freedom to choose one’s cultural identity is a basic human right just like freedom of religion or sexual orientation. There is no “right” or “wrong” in this.

    This concept we call America is still an experiment in progress. And it is being stress-tested like its never been before. Can all these different pockets of different cultural identities respect each other and exist side by side without causing friction is a question THAT STILL REMAINS TO BE SEEN. Once you start having an imperative to reduce everyone to some generic brand of “American”, whatever the hell that is, then that is the seed of intolerance.

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    Blue Jives almost had me laughing with the Apostle Paul and Roman Empire stuff —- until I realized he was trying to be serious and logical and develop an argument.

    Then I read the thing about black cops and Baduk being a closet racist against Koreans.

    He really has no clue.

    I find Baduk’s ideas over the top — but goodness — how could someone conclude he is anti-Korean!!!

    I guess Blue Jives considers all those very conservative Korean veterans in Korea anti-Korean.

    Blue Jives — prove your love of the mother land and hate for the great colony empire so chopped full of racists —- with a society that so frequently even gets the minorities to turn on themselves (instead of the white man like they should)

    by leaving your (cushy) life in the US and relocating to Korea where you can feel free and unhindered and unbound…..

    The thing about the Wies being sujected of empirial rule like Paul in the occupied Levant was beautiful though —- classic…..

  • iheartblueballs

    For the hypocritically impaired, I offer a bluejives translator:

    Identification is completely a matter of free will, as long as you agree with jives’ politics. If you dare disagree, he revokes your self-identification privileges, excludes you from his exclusive ethnic enclave, and snidely brands you a neocon.

    Baduk proclaiming love of, or pride in, America = shameful self-abasement.

    Bluejives proudly declaring that America is a country of arrogant morons = true KA patriotism.

    Turning your back on your Korean identity = telling the truth about some of the deplorable opportunists and passport-only KAs within the ranks.

    Fully embracing your Korean identity = defending those KAs who devalue, dismiss, and denigrate America in their bid to prove their “Koreanness.”

  • gaemee

    “there are virtually no known Korean celebrities abroad although there are numerous ones of Chinese, Japanese and other origins.”

    I think I can count a few names of Chinese and Japanese origins, but it wouldn’t be anywhere near “numerous”.

  • Katz

    I have to agree with blujives. I can’t understand Koreans here who lay their fidelity on the US and not on their motherland. I would consider these people, people without any honor. If my country would be a socialist country, it would be wrong if I put my fidelity on it, but if it is not I’m doing nothing wrong. But I can put my fidelity on my country even if it a socialist country, not agreeing with its system, but trying to change.

    I’m not a pessimistic who abandon his own country.

    I think foreigners here are making others accept what is wrong in a sly way, but they themselves can judge whether what is right or wrong.

    I can’t express with words what foreigners here are saying or express my feelings about it, but one thing I know, many are writing s* about this issue.

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    I don’t really give to much slack to Koreans (the ones born, raised, and living in Korea) on this, but I can understand why they have some of the thoughts they do on this issue, and it really isn’t that big an issue to begin with.

    But, coming from a society where minorities and immigrants make up such a much greater percentage of the population, I think Americans have a better chance of getting the issue right in the understanding:

    For example, Blue Jives, unless he was born in Korea, is not “Korean”.

    Kyopos get a mixed bag when they come back to Korea — partial acceptance and partial loathing — because they are not “Korean”.

    If you are 3rd or 4th or 5th generation whatever ethnicity in the US, you are about as “Korean” as I am French.

    Come to think of it —– I wonder what dda thinks about that —

    my mom’s mother was French-Canadian, her father having immigrated. Even when they moved to the US, he father wouldn’t allow them to speak English in the home.

    What do the French think about French-Canadians?

    Are they “French”?

    Anyway, a couple of generations into the society, you are that society.

    I have very slight doubts about this when it comes to an enclave like China town in SF or NY or some place like that —

    but if your parents went to public elementary, middle, and high school in the US (or Canada or whereever), and they grew up watching native TV, movies, listening to native music, and you did the same —-

    you are about as “Korean” as an apple is an orange (both being fruit).

    Tony Soprano is not “Italian”.

    I think digging into where your “people” came from is great.

    I think people whose people came from Ireland or Italy or Korea or Japan who take pride in their roots and try to learn about it are doing a pretty good thing.

    But, when they start saying they are “X” and not “Y” —- they are starting to become willfully ignorant….

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    bluejives,

    You or your parents have made a contract with people who live in the U.S. that when you belong to this group you will forget about where you came from and will join this new group of people. That is a binding contract.

    You can always reneg on that contract by abandoning your citizenship as ihearblueball said or by bombing a federal building and killing many Americans as Tim McVeigh has done which dogbertt still thinks somewhat justified.

    You can leave America any time. And, denounce your citizenship.

    But for me, I love America. With racism and the separation of the rich and the poor. Yet, as Bill Murray said in the movie Stripes, Americans are here because they got kicked out of every decent nation in the world. Yes, Americans came here because they did not get a decent deal from where they came from. We are a group of people who came from every corner of the earth to better ourselves. This is true for white Americans, black Americans, hispanic Americans and Asian Americans.

    If they do not like how America is run (like Tim McVeigh or dogbertt), they can go back to where they came from. In this sense, America is not just a country but a people’s union based on Common contract.

    What is the contract? “All men are created equal”. Everybody supposed to get a fair chance in America. Equal treatment. America is far from perfect equality but it made some significant progress in last four decades. I think my children will fare much better in the U.S. than any other country.

    More than this, I like America because it is a bedrock of Christianity. I am a ultraChristian in liberal definition and I share common values with many American ultraChristians. We are the true NeoCon. I support Bush to take over Iran as well and open up the country to the world. Ditto on NK. Only America can do this at present time.

    Bluejive, I join with iheartblueball, and ask you to seriously reconsider. When Korean terrorists attack the WhiteHouse, I will track down and kill those terrorists even if I do not like the president because these terrorists have attack the U.S., a group of people I love. The same is true when Korea attacks the U.S. in the future (this may come true around 2020).

    Watch “Fight 93″ when it comes out. And, remember that about twenty KAs died in 9/11 incident. You have to make up your mind. You are no longer a Korean. You are a KoreanAmerican.

    You are an American.

  • Mizar5

    Iheartblueballs, adinfinitim is right (thanks for explaining) – I was siding with you against Bluejives’ racial complex. I li

    Bluejives, I haven’t turned my back on my heritage at all. It’s a nice thing to have a heritage – a far better thing to have human decency that looks beyond narrow identification to race. I feel sorry for you if you think this kind of comment threatens your “cultural identity” – it doesn’t and that is far from the point. The point is that the comment that citizenship is about nothing more than a passport, this is morally reprehensible, period.

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    bluejives,

    Before you say my “patriotism” is placed on the wrong group of people and calling me a nigger who serves a white majority, just consider the following views.

    1) When I came to the U.S., a group of people(60% white, 15% black, 20% hispanic, 5% other) who were already here in America, fed me(free lunch) and educated me(high school, loan for college). Their tax money made me what I am.

    2) When I join the U.S. Navy, I met with racism from red necks. However, I also met many gentle and kind Americans, white, black and Hispanic. When I objectively think about this, there were more nice people than bad people, even though I remember the bad guys more.

    3) When I worked in civil service, I was treated fairly and well. My abilities are appreciated and I grew professionally. I did not face much racism working for the U.S. goverment.

    So, why turn my back on a group of people who treated me nicely? Americans are my neighbors, friends, coworkers, and my comrade-in-arms to better ourselves.

    KoreanAmericans are new immigrants. We are in the process of being a part of America. In about five decades, KAs will become full Americans. Nobody will question our citizenship or our patriotism.

    Who knows by 2050, Korea may be absolved into China and Koreans may integrated into a part of GreatChineseEmpire. Are you going to become a “pro-Chinese”, then?

  • Katz

    I feel sorry for Koreans here who can’t change anything about their own motherland except to btch about it if it do anything wrong. Talking about killing their own fellow counterparts if they do anything wrong. In a mundane point of view, you could be considered heros in your own eyes. But who is the one that judges?

    And who said America is the good guy in the world? Who said it is a bedrock of Christianity when you only see depravity and corruption here, allowing things that shouldn’t be allowed. Only seeing the TV here you become shocked by the things you see, hear and read. Even more in the internet. Using disgusting language, posting disgusting things everywhere.

    Did you live in any other country besides US? You’ll notice how corrupt this country is. Coming here, after have lived in a 3rd world country (not Korea), I became shocked after seeing things here. You know, I came from A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY.

    I become surprised by the cowardness, scurviness, craftiness of the people here. I become even more surprised about Korean monkeys who even imitate their bad character.

  • wjk

    you know, some European Americans have dual citizenship. Italians, Germans and the British are three I know for sure that can have dual citizenship. They can be Italians citizens and Americans at the same time. German citizens and American citizens at the same time. They can be British citizens and American citizens at the same time. This is not allowed for Japanese citizens nor South Korean citizens.

    What about the Italians, Germans and British, then?

    If America must fight the Italians, Germans or the British, who will these dual citizens living in America support? Do they even consider themselves Americans?

    This whole thread has never brought up our European Americans who enjoy dual citizenship, unlike our Far East Asians who must choose one.

    And, it seems the Italian Americans and Mexican Americans for sure root for Italy or Mexico during the World Cup, no matter how long their families have been in the states.

    Let the Wie family bask and tout their Koreaness, although Michelle Wie is no way as much Korean as South Koreans in South Korea.

  • wjk

    and I want to add that the few Jewish friends that I have, although some protest the very idea of the existance of a secularly derived Israel state (I think the idea is that it shouldn’t come about by man’s efforts, it’s supposed to exist by Divine events),…they seem to be prone to support Israel if the US were ever to turn enemy to Israel.

    Same for the few Pakistani friends that I have.

    Americans aren’t as American as you’d like to believe. When it comes down to it, real Americans will shoot bullets against the people of their ancestry. Those who won’t aren’t as American.

  • adinfinitum

    Bluejives wrote:

    “John Yoo and Harold Koh are not Koreans. They are neocons, just like Michelle Malkin.”

    Do you even know who these people are? Do you even know what a neocon is? One might be a neocon, the other is definitely not. John Yoo and Harold Koh are diametrically opposed to each other politically and ideologically. Harold Koh is to John Yoo what Obi-wan Kenobi is to Darth Vader (Yoo studied under and even worked for Koh at Yale Law, but their disagreements over international law couldn’t be greater).

    (http://gunsandbutter.blogspot.com/2005/10/koh-vs-yoo.html) I recommend reading the entire article in the Atlantic Monthly.

    You’re right about one thing, they’re not Koreans. And Donald Rumsfeld isn’t German (or Prussian, to be more precise).

    “Once you start having an imperative to reduce everyone to some generic brand of “American”, whatever the hell that is, then that is the seed of intolerance.”

    How, exactly? The whole point of everything I’ve written in this thread is to attack racial intolerance and prejudice. For the past few centuries we’ve been trying to turn the ideal that anyone can be an American, and will be treated like an American, regardless of race, creed, religion, national origin, etc., into reality. People like B.J. Wie make Korean Americans, and ethnic minorities in general, look bad because he’s exploiting the racist assumption that non-whites can’t be American.

    It’s a free country, you can call yourself whatever you want. And I have the freedom to criticize you and others for affirming the racial stereotypes about who is and isn’t American. Ignorant Koreans and ignorant Korean Americans are just as responsible for the “perpetual foreigner” syndrome as ignorant whites. Ignorance leads to prejudice, which in turn leads to racism.

  • adinfinitum

    Katz wrote:

    “I have to agree with blujives. I can’t understand Koreans here who lay their fidelity on the US and not on their motherland. I would consider these people, people without any honor.”

    Some Korean Americans are naturalized citizens and others, like me, were born and raised here. All U.S. citizens should be loyal to the U.S. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

    Korea is not my motherland. Koreans who believe that anyone with Korean blood should be loyal to Korea probably believe in fan death, as well.

    “I feel sorry for Koreans here who can’t change anything about their own motherland except to btch about it if it do anything wrong. Talking about killing their own fellow counterparts if they do anything wrong.”

    Again, Korean Americans are not Koreans. So, if I attack your country, South Korea, you’re not going to kill me because I just happen to look like you? Did you actually read the posts you’re criticizing? We’re talking about a hypothetical scenario involving war. If someone attacks the U.S. and/or kills Americans, I’d defend the country and kill the enemy, be they Koreans, Chinese, Russians, islamofascist terrorists, etc. Wouldn’t you do the same for your country, South Korea?

    No one here is talking about rejecting one’s ethnic heritage. I speak Korean, I respect the sacrifices my ancestors made, I respect the history, etc. But as a native-born American, I identify myself as an American. For me, it’s not a choice, it’s who I am, like it or not.

    Now that more and more Americans are getting used to the idea of a multi-ethnic America that is still fundamentally American, people like B. J. Wie only help undermine that progress.

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    I trained my children to speak English at home. I and my wife speak Korean but my children will speak English as their native language. And, they will mingle into American society, marrying non-Koreans as my sister and my brother has already done.

    In next generation, they will not be KAs. They will be 1/2 Korean and 1/2 Polish, Italian or 1/4, 1/8..etc. They will be Americans.

    I want them to be like that because I believe it is God’s will. God made America and God will keep America strong and prosperous as long as people obey God.

    KAs are strong Christians and we will carry on this Christian heritage in America along with Christians from other countries.

    Who could have thought we Koreans are going to live in America and change America? God is so powerful. I expect KoreanAmerican senators, KA secretary of state, KA state governors in near future. We already have enough KA doctors, lawyers, businessmen, engineers and professor.

    So, don’t dwell on Korea. As KAs, our future is limitless in this land of opportunity – maybe not as ample as white Americans at present time, but still ample enough.

  • wjk

    baduk, it’s my opinion that the more non-Korean their bloods are, the more non-Koreans they really are. And, it seems that a lot of mainstream white folk in America don’t bother to deal with religion. Meaning, your relatives may become atheists in a couple generations. Stick to the Korean production line. Make more Koreans.

  • wjk

    also seems like a lot of half Koreans seem to want to go back to their Korean sides, marrying Koreans, making 3/4 Koreans.

  • Katz

    Adinfinitum wrote:

    “People like B.J. Wie make Korean Americans, and ethnic minorities in general, look bad because he’s exploiting the racist assumption that non-whites can’t be American.”

    It’s they who decide whether they are Americans or not, even for Michelle Wie. You can’t decide for an individual. It is they who choose. And you can’t decide it because, for me, any person from a specific race they are what they are, wherever they were born. Good example are Jews.

    “No one here is talking about rejecting one’s ethnic heritage. I speak Korean, I respect the sacrifices my ancestors made, I respect the history, etc. But as a native-born American, I identify myself as an American. For me, it’s not a choice, it’s who I am, like it or not.”

    If you choose to be American there’s no difference whether you reject your heritage or not. Besides it doesn’t make sense. For me, it would be better for you to don’t even mention about your own heritage.

  • Katz

    To Baduk:

    Then, my friend, it would be better you not even mention the word “Korean” because it doesn’t make any sense.

    If you talk about God, then you should know very well that someday this country will end. That this country is no more that it was in old times.

  • wjk

    Baduk,

    Also, if it’s not too late to do so, let’em learn Korean. By not knowing Korean, they miss out on half of your world. The stuff you are interested in, like the stuff you talk about here, they would have no clue nor interest. True, there are translations, but it’s just not the same. It’s like Gerry Bevers talking about Takeshima without knowledge of Japanese language.

    Plus, this society is still pretty racist. You’re expected to speak or translate some Spanish if your last name is Martinez, speak Chinese if you go by Chen, speak Korean, if you go by Kim, but that doesn’t apply to European descendants who strictly speak English.

    Unless your family is seeking true integration. Which seems to be the case of most Japanese 4th generations, who are just like white Americans, mixed blood or pure Japanese.

  • http://sungnyemun.org/wordpress/ dda

    John Yoo and Harold Koh are not Koreans. They are neocons, just like Michelle Malkin.

    Convenient, innit? Just expel the ones who didn’t drink the chest-thumping, Uri Nara Koolaid, from your group. How nice.

  • dogbertt

    When people argue that “Oh, Korean Americans are just expressing their pride in their roots, no different than German Americans or Italian Americans,” I’d like to ask them to show me the German Americans or Italian Americans who espouse the views of bluejives or katz.

  • jyce

    Robert (and this is not in response to the previous comment about “neocons” BTW), I’ve noticed that many foreign residents from affluent countries, after years of dealing with the frustrations of living in Korea, become (perhaps understandably) right-leaning even if they were fun loving bong smokers, bar flies, and slackers back home. I wonder, though, if after years of dealing with hordes of far right-wing psycho hosebeasts and enraged Timothy McVeigh fanboys on your blog, if a little of the reverse applies to you. I don’t really expect that you’ll ever switch parties, or start hugging trees, but I wonder if your blogging experience has changed your outlook in some way and made you maybe a bit more skeptical towards some of the excesses of people on your side of the aisle.

  • jyce

    BTW, since the hyperlink above doesn’t seem to work, the link is http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/terrorists/timothy-mcveigh/

  • dogbertt

    If they do not like how America is run (like Tim McVeigh or dogbertt), they can go back to where they came from.

    No, baduk, _you_ can go back where you came from if you like. Those of us who are not from somewhere else will stay and try to change the system if we think it needs changing (which it may, given all the damage the current president is intent on doing). We have far more invested in it than you.

  • dogbertt

    BTW, to people like jyce and baduk to whom rational thought is anathema, my only point about Timothy McVeigh vis-a-vis certain other evildoers is that he did not do what he did in the interests of, say, Russia or any other foreign power. I know it helps you to attack me (and I must be attacked, since I wound kyopo pride) by portraying me as a supporter of what he did, but I am not.

  • dogbertt

    you know, some European Americans have dual citizenship. Italians, Germans and the British are three I know for sure that can have dual citizenship. They can be Italians citizens and Americans at the same time. German citizens and American citizens at the same time. They can be British citizens and American citizens at the same time. This is not allowed for Japanese citizens nor South Korean citizens.

    Untrue. At least, the United States does not require that Korean Americans or Japanese Americans relinquish their Korean or Japanese citizenship.

    “U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another.”

    http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

  • Mizar5

    Katz: “And who said America is the good guy in the world? Who said it is a bedrock of Christianity when you only see depravity and corruption here, allowing things that shouldn’t be allowed. Only seeing the TV here you become shocked by the things you see, hear and read. Even more in the internet. Using disgusting language, posting disgusting things everywhere.
    Did you live in any other country besides US? You’ll notice how corrupt this country is. Coming here, after have lived in a 3rd world country (not Korea), I became shocked after seeing things here. You know, I came from A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY.I become surprised by the cowardness, scurviness, craftiness of the people here. I become even more surprised about Korean monkeys who even imitate their bad character.”

    Katz, Your comments about corruption and depravity, being shocked by the things you see, hear and read and disgusting language also apply to Korea. What you’ve seen is human nature, and that’s a part of adulthood, growing up. But your inability to see past your cultural prejudices shows that you have a lot more emotional maturing to do.

    Koreans are in no need of imitating anybody’s supposed bad character. There are numerous character flaws very much in evidence right here in Korea and since they take on a decidedly Korean character, they cannot be blamed on imitation. In other words, what you are guilty of is hasty generalizations about another culture – in other words, prejudice. You have a lot of work to do on developing your own character before you are in a position to criticize anyone. Besides, your intent of impugning the American character rings false, because it is false. You ask why America is great and the good guy in the world, I will gladly explain. It is the character of the American people that has propelled them to greatness.

    It is no coincidence the the US has come to the position of dominence in the sciences, technology and so forth. America was built on character – on a paradigm of personal growth.

    Of course, because no one is perfect, people must own up to their own flaws and work to overcome them. This is one of the character traits that makes America great. And one of the great American character traits that makes America great is the spirit of individualism and “personal agency” that is not native to Asian societies and less developed in European societies. For objective analysis of this, read “The Geography of Thought – How Asians and Westerners Think Differently…And Why” by psychologist Richard E. Nisbett, who relies on non-culturally biased scientific research to analyze differences in the structure of thought of Asians and Westerners.

    Finally, before you criticize us “Korean monkeys” for mimicing the bad in Western society, credit us for integrating all the good advancements of Western society. Today, the lifestyle we enjoy is due to the absorbtion of Western elements and even our independence is owed to America.

    We betray ourselves as a very small-minded and ungrateful people when we succumb to attitudes like yours and Prof. Wie’s. As an American of Korean heritage, I am stronger, smarter and of better character than this. I wish the same for you.

    Good luck in your own personal progress.

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    “If you choose to be American there’s no difference whether you reject your heritage or not. Besides it doesn’t make sense. For me, it would be better for you to don’t even mention about your own heritage.”

    Being American is there heritage, numbnuts, whether they want to piss on it or not.

    After reading your nonsense about how the US is more corrupt than 3rd world nations, I wasn’t even going to bother to comment on it, because it would clearly be a waste of time.

    2nd or 3rd generation in, whether the family marries within its ethnic group or not, they are American – whether they love to bitch about George Bush and neocons and fundamentalist Christians or not.

    One of the few times I’ve really liked what Baduk writes was the stuff above where he wrote about what he gained by being in the US as an immigrant —- the same thing Blue Jives has taken advantage of as a matter of utter unacknowledged routine.

    There is a reason why people from the glorious less-corrupted and decadant 3rd world pour into the US and why so much fewer Americans run to escape from it (like Blue Jives in fact)…

    It might be hard to explain well what the American Heritage is —- but it is far more than baseball, hot dogs, and apple pie

    or if you prefer – corruption, racism, and decadance…

    Blue Jives might feel better about himself as a born and bred in America American who wants to love to pretend to hate the land and say it is nothing but a Passport piece of paper…

    but the reason he does not return to the land where his ancestors (however many generations ago) came from — is because he prefers — whether he will admit it to himself or not — what his American heritage has done for him and will continue to do for him.

    That is what immigrants, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or much longer generations ago person’s ancestors came to the land —

    fought and died in wars for America and don’t feel ashamed if they have to do it again.

    Mexicans root for their ethnic group’s team in the world cup…
    Many Irish love to hang that national flag in their homes and go to the pub where mostly other Irish hang out….

    and so on…

    it is part of the American Heritage that makes it a special nation —

    though each nation has its own heritage and value —

    And it is the different aspects of this heritage some people like Badkuk love with great vigor….

    ….and some like Blue Jives love to pretend they can’t stand….

    But they both reap the benefits (and some of the draw backs) of it —– and choose to continue to do so.

    And I’d like to see you go and try to kick some of those Mexican Americans (or Italian Americans) out of the nation by telling them they are not Americans….

    …and see how hard they fight for the right to remain…..

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    Eventually, Katz and Blue Jives and the others like them in this thread….

    you expose yourselves as racists…

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    dda….

    please scratch my curiosity —

    what does typical French society think about the French-Canadians and whether they are “French” or not??????

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    Dogbertt,

    If you ask the Oklahoma bombing victim’s family, who is more American between me or you, I think they will choose me. The ditto on the U.S. government.

    If you still think Tim McVeigh did a right thing, kiss goodbye to any job or position related to the Federal or even a State government. You are un-American, sir, if you espose the views of Tim McVeigh and believe, because you are born in the States, you have right to kill innocent Americans.

    You are a traitor to the U.S.!

    Just because you are born in the States does not guarantee that you are a good American. From your consistent approval of Tim, I judge that you are a closet terrorist and possibly a racist.

    You are a traitor to the U.S. already!

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert

    I wonder, though, if after years of dealing with hordes of far right-wing psycho hosebeasts and enraged Timothy McVeigh fanboys on your blog, if a little of the reverse applies to you. I don’t really expect that you’ll ever switch parties, or start hugging trees, but I wonder if your blogging experience has changed your outlook in some way and made you maybe a bit more skeptical towards some of the excesses of people on your side of the aisle.

    On occasion.

  • wjk

    you know, some European Americans have dual citizenship. Italians, Germans and the British are three I know for sure that can have dual citizenship. They can be Italians citizens and Americans at the same time. German citizens and American citizens at the same time. They can be British citizens and American citizens at the same time. This is not allowed for Japanese citizens nor South Korean citizens.

    Untrue. At least, the United States does not require that Korean Americans or Japanese Americans relinquish their Korean or Japanese citizenship.

    “U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another.”

    http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

    dogbertt, I am 99% sure I am right about this one. I dont think you can find anyone a Korean/US dual citizen. It varies by country.

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert

    wjk: Actually, that’s not entirely accurate. Now, at the risk of possibly spreading misinformation, the law (at least on this side) was that you were counted as a Korean citizen if someone placed you in the family register (hojeok), which made dual citizens of whole lot of people who perhaps weren’t even aware that they were dual citizens. This was particularly problematic for young Korean-American males who, on occassion, have had their family visits extended by two years courtesy the Korean Military Manpower Agency.

  • http://sungnyemun.org/wordpress/ dda

    usinkorea said:

    dda

    please scratch my curiosity —

    what does typical French society think about the French-Canadians and whether they are “French” or not??????

    I am not exactly what you’d call a typical French but for what is worth:
    a/ French society is currently way too much focused on itself to take note of other societies, even French-speaking ones;
    b/ we don’t usually call them French-Canadians [Canadiens français] – much to their displeasure. We may call them Quebecers/Quebecois if we want to differentiate;
    c/ the French they speak is quite strange/foreign to us. Listen to Carole Laure or Celine Dion when they give interviews… Think outback Aussie, and it’ll give you a beginning of an idea [although French spoken in Quebec is much weirder/different than Aussie-speak];
    d/ We’ve enough problems with our current identity crisis to spend any time delving into Quebec’s [even if the situation there may have been influenced half a century ago by a straight-ass, unsmiling General... :-)]

  • wills

    “Some countries do not allow dual citizenship. For example, if you were born South Korea and become a US citizen, you will most likely lose your Korean citizenship if the Korean government finds out about it.”

    from http://www.newcitizen.us/dual.html

    “The government of the Republic of Korea does not permit dual citizenship after the age of 21. Foreign citizens of Korean descent who hold dual citizenship under South Korean law and work or study in South Korea are usually compelled by the Republic of Korea to choose one or the other nationality soon after reaching that age.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_citizenship_in_South_Korea

    It’s the Korean government that forbid it, not the US government.

  • railwaycharm

    This matter is quite simple. The good Mr. Wie should be deported for being the douchebag that he is, for betraying his oath, and for being a bottom feeding parasite. You have to admit that Koreans tend to be more clannish than Japanese or European immigrants. They will pull the K card at a whim if it pleases the opportunity. That said, they are hard working citizens that can profit from the puritan work ethic in America the same way the Chinese can when pulled out of that cesspool they call a country. Many of my dearest, closest friends are Koreans; they don’t seem to have the same degree of denial as some of the KA’s on this thread. Maybe its envy, I don’t know I am merely a peripatetic nomad in this madhouse we ex-pats love to call the land of the morning calm. In the words of the great Afro-American immigrant, “Can’t we all just get along?” After all, he was driving a Hyundai!

  • railwaycharm

    Oh by the way, If you are ever in Federal Way, Washington. Try and enter one of the shops that has Hangeul signage, with no English. This is K code for, we only cater to Koreans. Now who are the racists?

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    Thanks dda….

    It’s interesting – especially given the discussion in this thread.

    One thing I remember from the 1990s and that part of Canada is how they made laws and sent out language police to haul into court businesses and other entities that did not properly display the French language in greater size or quantity than other languages.

    This was around the time they were thinking of breaking Canada into parts…..

    Fascinating….

    I wonder if 100 to 200 years from now, the same will be going on in the US with the big demographic change in the number of Spanish speakers?

  • Katz

    Usinkorea said:

    “Eventually, Katz and Blue Jives and the others like them in this thread….

    you expose yourselves as racists…”

    I didn’t say anything about being a racist, and there’s nothing wrong to be racist if you are in some extent. Who is wrong is who don’t respect other races. I don’t believe God would judge “racists” but rather God would condemn those who don’t respect their ideals and feelings. There’s a way to change things. What I’m saying is that most people don’t use that way. But instead foreigners use all kinds of excuses. No matter how mutt a person be, I wouldn’t say anything if he/she do in the right way, that is respecting others’ ideals and feelings, but it seems that instead they seem to defy, mock and invent all kinds of excuses to get what they want. We have different ideas. It seems that the normal for Americans is to intermarry, and anything against it, they call racist, but you are the ones that are not respecting other races. We are not accustomed to such a thing and our history says it, not just historically but also geographically. But rather, foreigners do it ignoring theese facts without any understanding even barking if we are against them. One of the examples are Matt and others.

    “After reading your nonsense about how the US is more corrupt than 3rd world nations, I wasn’t even going to bother to comment on it, because it would clearly be a waste of time.”

    And yes, US is more corrupt than Brazil, where I lived, culturally. There’s no comparison.

  • http://www.icebergkorea.com Iceberg

    Wow Katz. You are out there.

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    railwaycharm,

    I do not think that to be racism. Merchants are willing to sell to anybody as long as they make money.

    However, I suspect there were many trouble-makers before and Korean business owners are wary of non-Koreans. Those who steal, those who start fights, and those who complain.

    Restaurant owners, for example, are afraid that non-Korean customers will complain about food being too hot or about waitresses not understanding their orders quickly. Even worse, some of them may claim they got sick after eating in the restaurant and call the state food inspectors, who will close down the place for a couple of month. The owners will not risk it.

    Bar owners may like to keep their clientele to be only Koreans. It is understandable; other races will only come in to make trouble. Fist fights may break out.

    I do not think it is racism. It has to do more with business acumen and making money.

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    railwaycharm,

    On top of that, some small store owners are recent immigrants. They speak limited English and are very conscious of that fact. They are shy to speak English with heavy Korean accent and, therefore, they get angry when having to speak it.

    Some may have severe difficulty in understanding English. Some shops have their children in the shop, so that the young children will interpret English for them. The same is true for VietNamese shops, Russian shops, etc.

    English is rather a difficult language for Koreans to learn. Some Korean immigrants have given up trying altogether.

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    Therefore, if you walk in and break the ice by speaking some Korean words you know, they will lighten up and more likely welcome you with open arms.

    Try, “Annyeng Haseyo?”

    They will love you for that. You may even get a good discount.

  • Mizar5

    “The US is more corrupt than Brazil, where I lived, culturally. There’s no comparison.”

    This is the kind of problem you run into when trying to parse the musings of a solipsistic troglodyte. Speaking from the perspective of ostensible omniscience, he does not bother to define his terms, leaving the reader in the dark as to what his allusions. Loosly translated, the poor boy is saying: “I am more culturally aclimated to life in a backwards culture than an advanced one. Modernity belwilders me”

  • Katz

    To mizar5:

    I’m not some kind of ignorant who doesn’t know what modernity is. Besides if you think Brazil is some kind of jungle you are accusing the wrong person. I had experience in both countries unlike you. I’m not some ignorant who came from certain country to the US of the A and thinks it’s the best. There are lot of things in Brazil that are much better than here. You will be astounded by the things you will see there if you go there after what you said here. And stop using difficult words for your advantage. It doesn’t make much sense unless you want to deceive. But if you could disassociate modernity with corruption, it would be okay.

  • Sonagi

    Bar owners may like to keep their clientele to be only Koreans. It is understandable; other races will only come in to make trouble. Fist fights may break out.

    I do not think it is racism. It has to do more with business acumen and making money.

    Next time I visit my brother in Federal Way, we’ll rustle up a posse of cracker white trash troublemakers armed with baseball bats and we’ll smash every business with a monolingual Korean sign.

    At first, I thought Railway was being paranoid. Sadly, it seems that he is right, at least in some instances; judging by Baduk’s comments, some Korean business owners would discourage non-Korean customers because of the actions of a few. If owners of ethnic businesses want to cut off their nose to spite their face, so be it.

    @Katz,

    Your opinion that Brazil is a better country than the US is no more or no less valid than anyone else’s opinion. Saying “There are a lot of things in Brazil that are much better than here” is an opinion based on your own direct experiences and perceptions. It is not a fact. There are a number of quality of life and standard of living surveys published by international organizations. In a 2005 quality of life survey by the Economist, the US ranked 13th, South Korea 30th, and Brazil 39th. http://www.economist.com/theWorldIn/international/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3372495&d=2005 This survey does not prove that the US is a better place to live than Brazil. It simply shows the degree of satisfaction of the people surveyed in those countries.

  • Sonagi

    @Katz,

    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html

    According to the Transparency International Corruptions Index, the US ranked 17th compared to Brazil at 62nd. USinKorea is probably right that challenging your assertion that the US is more corruption than Brazil is a “waste of time.”

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    “I don’t believe God would judge “racists” but rather God would condemn those who don’t respect their ideals and feelings. ”

    —-end of discussion—————————-

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    “English is rather a difficult language for Koreans to learn. Some Korean immigrants have given up trying altogether.”

    Like I pretty much have with Korean.

    Being fluent in Korean used to be terribly important for my career goals.

    I’ve also spent a good bit of time saying I was trying to learn it.

    But, I am clearly below average when it comes to language learning in general — had problems with French and Spanish ——

    and although I have put in enough effort with Korea over the past 5 years or so —- the going is too slow and frustrating to give it serious consideration anymore.

    I’ll continue to tinker with it off and on forever, but since I have to be more diligent than average just to catch up with the average learner, I won’t make progress beyond a snails pace and will never be adequate in Korean.

    (Of course, I don’t live there any more and have left the career path that needed it as well)….

  • http://bluejives.net/blog bluejives

    Look , I realize that it is very difficult for self-described “mutts” (that bland mix of scottish, celtic, anglo, german, italian, etc. with a touch of cherokee or sioux thrown in) to relate to an idea of a person adhering to a singular, well-defined cultural identity. I mean, how could you, when you are such a wild cocktail mix of so many different ethnicities, long forsaken ever since that moment when the immigration official at Ellis Island mispronounced their great-great-great-great grandparent’s weird Eastern European name a 150 years ago and they’ve been stuck with it ever since. These same people, more often than not, would likely have a portion of black in them as well but they would never mention that (gee, I wonder why?)

    Usinkorea wonders why I linger in America if I value my Korean identity so much. Well, for the record, its true that I reside in the US. I live in the outskirts of a highly third-rate American Babylon, as known as New York City. I came here when I was five. I can assure you that I really had no say in the matter at the time.

    In principle, I find myself doing nothing really all that different than say the Amish in Dutch County Pennsylvania or Hasidics or Lubavitchers in Brooklyn. In fact, a neutral third party observer would find me a lot more assimilated than an Amish or Orthodox Jew. But a USinKorea would never ever dare question an Amish or an Orthodox Jews with such rhetoric. Why? Well, because Amish are white people after all and they are quaint and harmless. And if he tried that trick on the Jews he’d be slapped with an anti-Semitic charge so fast he’d be so sorry he’d ever opened his mouth in the first place. But I realize that jaemi-dongpo’s and other ostensibly non-white peoples are fair game. They are the same types of paranoidals who flee to outer whitelandia because someone like me is just way too much diversity to handle, and they form militias, fuck around with rifles, and talk of “good fences making good neighbors”.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses of all color and stripe refuse to serve in the armed forces because of their beliefs. So are they unAmerican also? Are they offending the oath? Should they be deported or closely monitored as well?

    America is a land of noise, confusion, and cacophony. There used to be a time when I was younger, idealistically naive and considered myself a Real American, whatever the hell that means. But after a lifetime of enduring stupid racism, stereotypes that refuse to die, being called chink even though I’m just a gook, and other assorted bullshit, you cant blame me for having second thoughts about the matter. Until America makes up its damn mind what exactly an American is (and I aint holding my breath for that one), I will continue to hedge my bets.

  • Mizar5

    Katz,

    It’s unfortunate that you find precision of expression unnatural. I am attempting to alert you that the intellectually dishonest habit of attempting to pass off personal bias as fact is transparently fallacious to the average reader – as witnessed by your feedback to date.

    Here are some pointers on how an person of intellectual integrity and rigor would argue a point:

    First, make yourself understood. If you have a cultural thesis worth propitiating, you could do people a great service by stating it in a coherent way, eschewing murky and subjective terms (ie. “culturally corrupt”) in favor of precise, concrete and unambiguous descriptive passages.

    For example, if you are attempting to say that you are a puritan who finds straightforward expressions relating to human sexuality in the West objectionable, then state this unambigously so as to procede arguing your case.

    Second, support for your thesis must take the form of concrete proofs. Simply saying a thing is so does not carry weight as an educated argument. You must enlist the use of data, logical inference and diacritic logic to draw support for your point.

    Third, you must assiduously avoid the use of logical fallacies such as the strawman argument, argumentum ad hominem and circular references which your posts are replete with. They not only fail to support your case but discredit it by drawing attention to your unfocused thinking and biased frame of reference.

    Finally, no matter how you attempt to justify cultural or racial bias, you will succeed only in digging yourself deeper into an intellectual morass. It is like putting make up on a pig which ironically serves only to accentuate the pig’s essential porcine nature. What you really need is to work on, more than your form of expression, is the attitudes behind those expressions. You are a person who is rigidly stuck in anger and denial and these are deep-seated psychological issues that should not be left unresolved.

  • Mizar5

    Bluejives, you are blessed to live near a “third-rate American Babylon, as known as New York City” which is consistantly ranked among the greatest cities in the world by global-minded individuals who are not troubled by your self identity issues. The real problem is not America, but that you are very emotionally insecure and fragile person – with an infantile attachment to the nipple of your racial background. Sad.

    If you can’t take a little ribbing and conflate heterogenity with noise, confusion, and cacophony, then I would suggest you go back to Korea where you the noice, confusion and cacaphony are actual, as is narrow-mindednes that has no counterpart in the West. But you won’t find the answers you seek there either. The answers lie within your troubled soul, and I wish you success in finding yourself in life.

  • http://koreanamerican431.blogspot.com/ baduk

    “an infantile attachment to the nipple of your racial background”- Mizar5

    Would you allow me to suck on it? I love nipples.

    Funny that I was thinking about this very subject today. Mind-link of some kind? Anyway, I was thinking how difficult it would be for babies if the boobs do not have nipples. What are they going to suck on? Entire boob? Babies will gag.

    Some Scandinavian women do not seem to have well-defined nipples, as Asians have. They just have a large area of pink with insignificant or non-existent protrusion. No nipple.

    Speaking about racial background as a nipple, I am glad I have a nipple to suck on. Some Americans don’t. They are so mixed up that they do not know who they are. No roots. No nipples.

    I have to cut this post short, so that I can go suck on some nipples, those of racial background or other kind.

  • dogbertt

    The Amish and Jehovah’s Witnesses have suffered persecution aplenty in the U.S. Read a history book sometime.

    Notice, though, that they don’t agitate.

    Look , I realize that it is very difficult for self-described “mutts” (that bland mix of scottish, celtic, anglo, german, italian, etc. with a touch of cherokee or sioux thrown in) to relate to an idea of a person adhering to a singular, well-defined cultural identity.

    Notice that your singular, well-defined cultural identity is not American — how could it be? It is actually very easy to relate to it, when it is back home where it belongs.

    That’s it in a nutshell. If you are unwilling to assimilate into the “melting pot”, “salad bowl”, or whatever you want to call it, don’t cry that people don’t view you as 100% American. It’s not because of the shape of your eyes; it’s your attitude and aloofness.

    Anyway, while I can appreciate your veiled pride at being of “pure blood” and the contempt you have for our “bland mix”, I still say that however pure a pedigreed greyhound’s blood may be, at the end of the day it’s still just a dog.

  • railwaycharm

    Sonagi,
    I do not point out the discrimination with glee. I am usually the first guy to defend my adopted country for its quirky behaviors. What I find unnerving are opportunist people who wrap themselves in flags of convenience. The Federal Way story saddens me. It is not the wholesale ideal of the true individual nature of Koreans. I do my best to respect the nation of Korea. I still have my blue passport as I am a guest. The Wie’s and the store owners in Federal Way are not guests of America, Shame on them.

  • http://kushibo.blogspot.com kushibo

    If you are unwilling to assimilate into the “melting pot”, “salad bowl”, or whatever you want to call it, don’t cry that people don’t view you as 100% American. It’s not because of the shape of your eyes; it’s your attitude and aloofness.

    Dogbertt, there are plenty of KAs and other AAs who are very proud to be Americans yet still get treated, from the get-go, like non-Americans. Yeah, you may have a problem with Bluejives’s militant attitude, but there are plenty of KAs and AAs without his attitude who still get treated as outsiders simply because of the way they look or sound.

  • dogbertt

    African Americans look and sound quite different from whites, yet no one believes that they are not fellow Americans.

  • railwaycharm

    African Americans work the hardest to rail against their forced nationality. They still think like they live in Africa. We whites do a very good job of feeling guilty for being white and ply our consciences with entitlements for Blacks. Ask yourself why so many Blacks end up in prison? Afro-Americans only assimilate when they get away from their kind and start talking like a white person. FUBU

  • adinfinitum

    “African Americans look and sound quite different from whites, yet no one believes that they are not fellow Americans.”

    Well, that’s a bit simplistic on several levels, but, for the sake of argument, Asian Americans are usually not as lucky. Most KA’s and AA’s are nothing like Bluejives, and they are as proud to be American as any white person (or as apathetic, depending on your perspective). But they end up being treated like foreigners in their own country simply because of the way they look. Even fifth generation Japanese Americans who have little to no cultural ties whatsoever to their ancestral land will be treated like they just got off the boat in some parts of the U.S. I’m not saying it happens often, only that it happens. Ignorance and racial stereotypes aren’t going away any time soon. Most AA’s shrug it off and move on. Others end up bitter and reject their American identities like Bluejives. By doing so, they essentially let the racists get away with racial stereotypes regarding who is and isn’t American.

    While it would be wrong to blame “white” society for the self-hatred some minorities feel, it is also wrong to place all of the blame on the minorities who view assimilation as a form of “selling out”. Prejudiced, irrational people from all sides are responsible for this mess.

    You can’t deny that white immigrants and their descendants are much more readily accepted by society than Asian immigrants and their descendants. In fact, one of the main reasons this thread exists is because this is a real issue. Why else would I or any other Korean American care about a statement like Wie’s? It’s hard not to feel a little worried that some…person will seize on Wie’s statement, or Bluejives’ or Katz’s comments, (or bring up Robert Kim over and over again) and then start stereotyping all Korean Americans as this or that. That’s one reason why their comments anger me so much. Racial stereotypes and racism have real consequences for us outside of the blogosphere.

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    “to relate to an idea of a person adhering to a singular, well-defined cultural identity. ”

    —–aaaaannnnnnnttttttt——-

    That is the problem Blue Jives. You might think you have masked Korean culture done to your blood and bones, but you are American. You can’t wash it off. You can’t scrub it from your brain. And frankly you don’t want to. You want to pretend you have and that you want to.

    If you wanted to marry that “singular, well-defined cultural identity” — you would not have left South Korea after 1 year. You would have found Korean wife and become an ROK citizen.

    The fact you believe things like the quote above, but have chosen not to “be Korean” —- is one reason I have no respect for you.

    “But a USinKorea would never ever dare question an Amish or an Orthodox Jews with such rhetoric.”

    Where exactly would the Amish relocate?

    By Orthodox Jews, do you mean all of them would agree with you that being “American” for them is nothing more than having a paper passport? Can’t you get it? Try to pass laws saying they are not American and must “return” to Israel, and see how hard these “Orthodox Jews” fight to demand you admit they are as American as I am — and as free to be as they like – to live the life they like – but still be “American”.

    And I believe a good number of the Jews who might share thoughts like yours on how un-American they are and how bad this nation is — have gone back to Israel.

    You are not 5 anymore. You went to the Fatherland as an adult with a job and with the English skills and education to get a better job. And you RETURNED.

    See Blue Jives — though you might not admit it to yourself — give your stated positions and what little history I know about you from what you’ve written —- I know you enjoy being “an American”. You just also enjoy denying it for some brain-masturbating ideas about your “true” identity and longing for the Fatherland.

    “They are the same types of paranoidals who flee to outer whitelandia because someone like me is just way too much diversity to handle, and they form militias, fuck around with rifles, and talk of “good fences making good neighbors”.

    You really have very little clue……..

    The more you talk, the more I am not only convinced you are so wrong about so many things, I am more and more thinking you don’t know who you are…….

    “Jehovah’s Witnesses of all color and stripe refuse to serve in the armed forces because of their beliefs. So are they unAmerican also?”

    Numbnuts — well — numbbrain —— if they throw in how being an American is nothing more than having a certain passport, yes, there will be a long line of people saying they are “un-American”….

    …..and………hello…………the US has it written into the laws that people can opt out of fighting for the nation due to religoius beliefs!!
    It is a part of “America”. Some might not like it. Some might be offended enough to say they are “un-American” – but the society says it is an option, and people have used it.

    This should have been an obvious point since you went into the direction of the Amish and the religious objectors, but again, your racisim blinds you from such things.

    It is similar ot the mind-blocking I’ve seen with white people who had black friends they hung out with in high school or at work – but could manage to say from time to time how they “Don’t like blacks” and could never be made to understand how the two things make them look like even bigger jackasses.

    “The real problem is not America, but that you are very emotionally insecure and fragile person – with an infantile attachment to the nipple of your racial background. Sad.”

    Amen.

    I’ve been slowly creeping toward this idea for some time on reading Blue Jives, but his thoughts exposed in this thread start to shine the light in that direction big time…..

    Onto more fertile ground for real discussion:

    Kushibo: “but there are plenty of KAs and AAs without his attitude who still get treated as outsiders simply because of the way they look or sound.”

    I think this sounds like brain candy — something we are trained to say in higher education – but something pushed too far and beyond it being a truely useful thought.

    Here is why I think so:

    treated like an outsider —–

    when I was in France living in an international dorm – in the cafeterria – you could visible and audible recognize the clumps of nationalities.

    Not only did you have little clumps of native Spanish speakers, German speakers, English speakers, Korean speakers, and Japanese speakers eating together for the most part — you would often find tables of 90% Swedes, or 90% Dutch or 90% from Spain or 90% from Mexico or 90% from England and 90% from the US.

    This was true even though this was a group of people very gung-ho about having some international experience and meeting people from different cultures.

    There was a lot of mixing and mingling —- but there was also absolutely major clumping with individuals picking to walk over here or over there or picking this meal to be with the Japanese table or the Koreans and Japanese frequently eatching together.

    You find the same thing in work places in the US —- like one factory I know where the Vietnamese eat together and break together and the Mexicans together and the Guatamalans together and the blacks together —–

    —–and I can hear the college educated mind-set pressing us hard to say this is a clear example of racism —

    —–but I know it is not for the vast majority of them. And it isn’t mostly about a language barrier.

    It is about the comfort level that comes with familiaity.

    Let me put it this way —— I believe anyone who doesn’t want to stick their head in the sand (Blue Jives) would tend to agree —

    Even if there was zero racism in the US —– you would still find black and white and hispanic and Vietnamese and Korean churches.

    You would find when people had the choice, they would tend to stick with what was more familiar and more similar to them.

    And it extends beyond race which is easy to see and understand why it is not based on racial pressure….

    If I’m in a different region of the US, and I happen across a choice between hanging out with a clump of people from – say – New York, Boston, Philadelphia (sp?), ———– or ———– other Southerns – I’d probably tend to pick them more often than not.

    It is like when someone moves away from the region they were raised in and live away for some years and have the chance to go back for an extended vacation — they often “feel at home” — and race has nothing to do with it.

    So……………….I do not deny Asians (or other ethnicities) will “feel out of place” when outside their ethnic grouping at times because they are facing overt or unconscious racism or something like that….

    but I believe, especially with the Asian demographic in the US —– the “feeling out of place” is “natural.”

    It would be the same for me if I went to Manhattan and spent the evening with a bunch of upper middle class white people.

    And I guess that probably offers the nugget of thought I wanted to express the best.

    I think if we chew that over for awhile —-

    maybe some of that typical higher eduction brain candy will start to come into question….as perhaps not being gospel.

    My wife (Korean) is urging me to get off the computer so she can use it…..which is why I’m tending to ramble here….

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    “It is about the comfort level that comes with familiaity.”

    familiarity…

  • railwaycharm

    USinKorea,
    I agree with your theory. I also feel that be recognizing this phenomenon does not make a person a racist. I think it shows that the person is perceptive and informed. Look at any world map; notice that each county is a different color? Reason being is they are different.

  • http://www.occidentalism.org shakuhachi

    Dogbertt,

    If you ask the Oklahoma bombing victim’s family, who is more American between me or you, I think they will choose me. The ditto on the U.S. government.

    If you still think Tim McVeigh did a right thing, kiss goodbye to any job or position related to the Federal or even a State government. You are un-American, sir, if you espose the views of Tim McVeigh and believe, because you are born in the States, you have right to kill innocent Americans.

    You are a traitor to the U.S.!

    Just because you are born in the States does not guarantee that you are a good American. From your consistent approval of Tim, I judge that you are a closet terrorist and possibly a racist.

    You are a traitor to the U.S. already!

    Baduk, what have you been smoking? Dogbert was pointing out that Robert Kim was a traitor working for another country, while Tim McVeigh was a disturbed young man acting on his own.

  • Origami

    Yeah, well,

    I could never figure out the small minded, nationalistic sentiments of many Koreans. This is sort of thing that often leads to war, ugly discrimations and hatred as faced by many minorities in that Country. This is sort of pettiness a typical Frenchman has. I mean, you can never be French in French society no matter how French you think you are. Note the recent uprising by the Moslims in France. Personally, I like to think I’m above all this nonsense.

    So, I thump my chest and cry to high heaven, and tell every Korean in Korea, how Korean I am. See, Me, I’m sort of curious about Korea because it’s my ethnic heritage but where the hell does that get me? Not even a cheeseberger in a fast food resturant in Seoul. These useless ethic pride crap is what gets mankind in trouble all the time. Notice how all these racist Koreans are fighting over piece of Rock call Dokdo. They’re willing to go to war for a piece of crap like that. I thank God my parents left that piece of racist crap Country to give us a better life here.

    But feeble, Liberal minds like Bluejives will never understand that. America is always wrong. Even when Americans went to war to save that worthless peice of crap Country. People like Bluejives will make every excuses for all those useless Korean Commies that does nothing but burn American flags, but, he doesn’t have the inclination to burn his American Citizenship and move back to his useless ungreatful Country and try to eak out a living like rest of those poor saps. Why should he, when he can snipe like a useless French fag who feels so inferior that the only way he can get back at a society that gave him nothing but oportunity to succeed …whatever. I’m sick of all these pettiness.

    These people like this make me sick to my stomach. You know, sometimes, I’m ashamed to call myself Korean-American. I think I’ll call myself American. Nice, short and simple and be done with all these idiocy.

  • jyce

    Robert, this must be one of those “occasions”

  • mahathir_fan

    ASSIMILATION VS. INTEGRATION OF IMMIGRANTS

    The reaction from Wie’s father is natural. Americans have a very intolerant view of immigrants in that they expect the immigrant to “assimilate” into American soceity rather than integrate. This is in contrast to other multi racial countries like Malaysia. In Malaysia, our unofficial policy is not to assimilate, but to “integrate” the different cultures. Thus, each race in Malaysia has their own cultures and their own festivals. Simply because one celebrates Chinese New Year, instead of Prohphet Muhammad’s birthday doesn’t make one less Malaysian.

    However, in America, after a generation or so, every American family begin to celebrate “American” festivities like Thanksgiving. Thus the definition for being an American is whether or not one is “Americanized”. If one is not “Americanized” then one says that he is American only as far as the passport says so. If one doesn’t celebrate Thanksgiving, one feels that one is not Americanized because he/she has not yet assimilated into American society. It is like an unofficial barrier.

    I once heard a politician on TV, his name was Pat Buchanan and he was complaining about the hispanic population not assimilating into American soceity. But in Malaysia, it would have been different. Immigrants like Chinese will keep their own cultures, maintain their Chinese names, and those cultures are integrated as part of Malaysian culture. So the result is that the Chinese feel that they are Malaysian first and Chinese second (in most cases until racial preferences kicks in).

  • railwaycharm

    Baduk, I will give it a shot next time I am stateside. I have tried to pay with Won to Korean shop keepers, they get so shocked, and it’s a great deal of fun. Your language explanation does make a great deal of sense. I recant.

  • railwaycharm

    mahathir_fan, you can see the same segregation in New York, Miami, LA, to name a few. Check out little italy or Chinatown.

  • Sonagi

    Reading bluejives’ long post attacking white people with terms like “mutt” and the negative references to NYC and Orthodox Jews, I wonder if he might have penned the nasty email that Robert received recently. His post and that email have the same hateful tone.

  • Sonagi

    Another difference in race relations between the US and Malaysia is that affirmative action is alive and well in Malaysia. I knew many Chinese who had to go abroad for a university education because they were shut out at home by preferential treatment for Malays. Sadly, Indians, who occupy the bottom rung of Malaysian society, do not qualify for special admission consideration or business loans. Only bumiputras – sons of the soil – get reserved university slots and lucrative government contracts.

    You forgot to mention that only Muslims can become prime minister in your country and that lots of money is spent on tall, gleaming new mosques that cast shadows on churches and temples, even in Christian-majority states like Sabah. Chinese and Indians are encouraged to exhibit their traditional culture as long as they know their place as second-class citizens in Muslim MALAYsia.

    Undocumented workers from Mexico recently held street demonstrations across the US to demand their rights. If Indonesians in Malaysia tried that trick, they’d all be promptly rounded up, beaten, and put on a boat. That’s something we do have in common, Mahathir fan, a large population of undocumented workers from a southern neighbor. Malaysia has cracked down very hard on its illegal immigrants. Maybe Badawi could give Bush some tips next time he visits Washington.

  • MrChips

    Oy vey!! What a bunch of kvetch. It’s stunning the amount of emotion that is aroused over the issue of ethnicity. And all it really comes down to is pride, as in arrogance. But usually we think of pride as in an accomplishment that we are proud of. But this transfusion of pride from some indistinct set of characteristics passed on to us by our parents for which we have absolutely no control over but with which we rationalize so much of our hatred for other people is one of the chief aspects of human nature. And someone would go so far as to say that “mutts” in America have no concept of cultural identity simply because their “ethnic” heritage is mixed. You don’t have the right to say that those people don’t have an identiy with their own local culture just because it doesn’t have an ethnic attachment. I decide what my identity is not you. Perhaps I’m lucky in that no one is trying to hijack my loyalty.

    I’m surprised myself to say it, given his propensity to wax inane on moot issues, but Baduk’s sentiment in this regard seems to be the most understandable. You stay loyal to wherever your family is: your wife, your kids, your siblings, and your parents. Beyond that you don’t owe anyone anything. And if your supposed heritage comes to a point where it threatens the livelihood of the country where your family lives you are perfectly within your rights and obligations to fight that heritage and stay loyal to your country because you love your family. Korea doesn’t own rights of loyalty over all Korean ethnics in perpetuity; what foolishness!! Foolishness born of hatred.

    And Mayhem_Fan, you’ve got to be kidding with the notion that Americans in general insist on assimilation versus integration. If ever one called the kettle black, du bist der mann. Phphph. America has through many years of internal conflict followed by reform (initiated from within) continued to evolve into an ever new nation, shaped by its immigrants. And again, Baduk here is right (Oh my God!!) America is on the inevitable path of being a non-white nation (although that means Hispanics aren’t considered white and it won’t be in 20 years as he said.) The assimilation you talk about is a very minimum understanding of American political history and English language ability. Very minimum. Ethnic violence is almost unheard of relative to your neck of the woods. Muslim countries, especially, are notorious for forcing assimilation, both social and religious, on “outsiders.” Don’t be duped into thinking the Pat Buchanan’s are the norm. That’s letting yourself be deceived; although, perhaps that’s what you want.

  • Mizar5

    mathir_fan:Americans have a very intolerant view of immigrants in that they expect the immigrant to “assimilate” into American soceity rather than integrate.

    Which Americans are these? The last time I looked the US was more tolerant of immigrants than any nation, even to the point of allowing them to take their driver’s licencing tests in their native languages. Tolerence for other cultures has been syc a basic mainstay of American values that public facilities are not allowed to display nativity scenes for fear of offending non-Christians.

    if one doesn’t celebrate Thanksgiving, one feels that one is not Americanized because he/she has not yet assimilated into American society. It is like an unofficial barrier.

    Nonsense. There is no basis for this assertion other than your stating it as though it were fact. It is not. For your information, Thanksgiving is a family holiday that is celebrated in the home by having the family together for a great meal – it is not publically celebrated unless you count the Macy’s Day Parade in NYC

    I once heard a politician on TV, his name was Pat Buchanan and he was complaining about the hispanic population not assimilating into American soceity.

    Hello, this is Pat Buchanan – a man who is ridiculed for being so completely outside the mainstream of American thought.

    But in Malaysia, it would have been different. Immigrants like Chinese will keep their own cultures, maintain their Chinese names, and those cultures are integrated as part of Malaysian culture. So the result is that the Chinese feel that they are Malaysian first and Chinese second (in most cases until racial preferences kicks in).

    Visit the Chinatown in any American city. The same thing occurs. The only difference being that these Chinese Americans are also able to completely assimilate into American culture if they choose to, whereas they are prohibited from doing so in Malasia. They are not forced to – they do so only if they are so inclined.

    One of my pet pieves is people who represent opinions as facts and then fail to support them with any coherent evidene. Another pet pieve is people who perpetrate falsehoods about people out of personal bias and animosity.

  • jyce

    Pat Buchanan has lots of fans on this blog.

  • mahathir_fan

    Sonagi and Mizu,

    Again, if only you had read my posting till my last sentence. I did not try to hide the fact that there are racial problems resulting from racist policies. If you had just read the last sentence of my last posting you will find me admiting that:

    “So the result is that the Chinese feel that they are Malaysian first and Chinese second (in most cases until racial preferences kicks in).”

    And it is a very true statement. Many Chinese in Malaysia feel that they are Malaysian. Almost none feels any attachment to China other than it is an anchestral homeland. Almost all feel that way until they are met with racial preference policies in which case they feel treated like 2nd class citizens.

    “The only difference being that these Chinese Americans are also able to completely assimilate into American culture if they choose to, whereas they are prohibited from doing so in Malasia.”

    This statement is not right. The Malaysian government had always wanted the Chinese to assimilate into Malay culture. If they can have their way, they would want Chinese people to have Malay names, become Moslems, and completely lose their culture. However, the Chinese in Malaysia has the audacity to stand up and insist on RACIAL INTEGRATION AND OPPOSES RACIAL ASSIMILATION. The result is that in Malaysia, we even have Chinese language schools from elementary all the way to secondary school (called high school in the US). The same cannot be said about America. Where are the Chinese or Spanish speaking schools in America that are publicly funded?

    Back to the point of this posting, a typical immigrant into the US does not feel that he or she is an American until he or she becomes Americanized in culture. This is a social pressure to conform in order to be accepted. This is what triggered Wie’s father to say, wie is as American only by passport because she still speaks Korean, eats her kim chi; and those values are in general not accepted by Americans as part of American culture. There is a general expectation that Michele or her children will one day grow to prefer to eating apple pies instead of Kim Chi. And when they like apple pies instead of Kim Chi, only then they have become Americanized and be accepted as Americans by her fellow Americans.

  • http://bluejives.net/blog bluejives

    UsinKorea, you have a lot to say, most of which is pure rubbish. Let me ask you one simple question, did the US Army ever issue a formal apology for the wrongful prosecution of Captain James Yee? The answer is no. Given that fact and the incident, which only happened less than 3 years ago, then explain to me why any conscientious Asian-American should take the Oath or the Pledge of Allegiance seriously? BTW, not just you but any other self-appointed member of the Concerned Citizens Committee for Un-American Activities can answer this. If the best you can come up with is a bunch of lame excuses, or the classic line “go back to your own country”, then that just proves my point even further.

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    Blue Jives,

    No. Only an idiot would allow you to jump so far afield and limit the disucssion to such an isolated example.

    See, when you fish for such points to make very bad arguments all the time, Blue Jives, when you write “you have a lot to say most of which is rubbish” — it means absolutely, totally, 100% percent — nothing to me.

    You can hop skip and jump around throwing the conversation onto conscientious objectors, the Amish, Orthodox Jews, black hating blacks, and now someone who happened to be Asian who was involved in a FBI screw up, but you need to make sure your argument holds together even more when you cast the net so far and wide – not less.

    You are the one who exposes routinely how little of a clue you have and how so much of your opinion of the US and Korea is based on a narrow minded racial pile of poo.

    Yes – “Love it or leave it!” is a “classic” line and mostly crap, but it fits at times —- and using it on your thoughts is one of them.

    You have used it quiet frequently, in fact, on expats in Korea. So have others. I criticize it, because it only fits those who have grown to truly hate Korea and Korean society – to those for who virtually nothing in their daily lives in Korea or in Korean society make it worth staying there.

    It really is better for such a person (which I haven’t met many expats who have reached that level in Korea) to leave. Life is too short to be miserable.

    But, see, that is the point with you Blue Jives.

    You like to like to believe you hate “America”.

    You have created this nice little fiction for yourself with the core of it being your race and go out of your way to string together some of the weakest arguments of any of the blogs I read (just a handful) to hold it together.

    And you do so while (probably unknowingly) enjoying the many benefits of that nation you love to say you hate and is so horrible for people of your race.

    Bascially, I think you are full of shit.

    I believe if you believed the core of what you profess were actually true —- you would have stayed in Korea when you returned to the Fatherland.

    I say, “go back to your own country” to you —- because I know you won’t.

    You like to talk the talk of someone who would crawl on his knees naked through snow to get a 3rd class ticket to Korea if you had a job waiting for you…

    but…….you were in Korea…..with the tools necessary to make a pretty good life there…..and….you only stayed a year.

    I — being one of the expats you told to love it or leave it and stop being a “Korea hater” —

    worked in a totally dysfunctional industry in Korea —

    —-and stayed for over 4 years and spent years more learning about Korea —- because I found enough to make it worth staying and putting forth that effort.

    You, on the other hand, enjoy a life of sucking off the tit of what being an American and living in American society offers you……..but profess to hate it so much — you believe being an “American” is no more than a stamp on a piece of paper.

    You have created a tissue paper thin jumbled set of nonsense to hold yourself together…

  • railwaycharm

    This has gotten messy.

  • dogbertt

    Why all the Buchanan bashing? I haven’t heard anything from him in years. Is he still the #1 boogeyman of the diversity crowd?

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert

    railwaycharm—It got messy a long time ago.

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    railwaycharm,

    Much of this is carry over – as you can tell from what is said.

    Blue Jives and I have both been commenting for a long time and frequently clustered on similar topics to the point we can recall much of what was said before.

    For the record:

    I wish Blue Jives no harm. I hope he – like 99% of the people I’ve known – has a sucessful life. There are only a tiny number of people I have ill-will toward.

    I think Blue Jives’ positions on race, “Korea”, and “America” are full of shit and feel free to tell him so.

    He feels the same about mine.

    Hopefully, however, both of us try to explain ourselves extensively enough that others find some value or interest in the comments.

    This is no like the Korea Herald Forum – if that is still up. Or even like it sometimes has been at Dave’s ESL Cafe.

    Neither Blue Jives or myself or the vast majority of people who regularly comment at Marmot’s breaks down into crass, short, vulgar name calling comments or things like that email Marmot posted the other day.

    I might say Blue Jives is full of shit, but I try to explain why, and that is at least discussion…..

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    I also meant to say that this carry over spills from other blogs and conversations there on the same topics.

    It seems both of us read several of the same blogs….

  • Brendon Carr

    Bluejives writes:

    Look, I realize that it is very difficult for self-described “mutts” (that bland mix of scottish, celtic, anglo, german, italian, etc. with a touch of cherokee or sioux thrown in)…

    Are you getting your ideas about Caucasians’ racial identity from Penthouse or something? That’s the only place I’ve ever in my life seen any Americans quoted as describing their ethnic background in such a manner.

  • Brendon Carr

    “Some countries do not allow dual citizenship. For example, if you were born South Korea and become a US citizen, you will most likely lose your Korean citizenship if the Korean government finds out about it.”

    from http://www.newcitizen.us/dual.html

    “The government of the Republic of Korea does not permit dual citizenship after the age of 21. Foreign citizens of Korean descent who hold dual citizenship under South Korean law and work or study in South Korea are usually compelled by the Republic of Korea to choose one or the other nationality soon after reaching that age.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_citizenship_in_South_Korea

    It’s the Korean government that forbid it, not the US government.

    The United States government does forbid “dual citizenship” in some contexts. Acquiring American nationality through naturalization requires a renunciation of former allegiance in the following form: “I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”

    US citizens holding another nationality by birthright do not naturalize, and therefore do not ever take the foregoing oath.

  • MrChips

    Mayhem_Fan,

    Are there two different people writing for you? In your first post you said: “Americans have a very intolerant view of immigrants in that they expect the immigrant to “assimilate” into American society rather than integrate.”

    Then in your next post you said: “The Malaysian government had always wanted the Chinese to assimilate into Malay culture.”

    So if we’re talking about the evils of government who’s integrating and who’s assimilating? Everywhere, people would prefer to just integrate and the government would prefer that they assimilate. That’s just common sense; but the reality is that the most “integrated” society in practice is the US. Even in France for all their talking of integrating race and assimilating culture, they are really just a loosely integrated society at the urban level, and racially homogenous outside the cities.

    And where is this apple pie rule you keep speaking of?? Apparently you don’t know what it’s like to go from state to state in the US and see the racial makeup and cultural diversity changing rapidly as you travel. These are changes that are based entirely on the different makeup of immigrants. The idea of one American culture is a myth.

    And here’s an education point for you. The English-only speaking schools are a relatively, modern phenomena. As the federal government took over the role of education oversight they have instituted that. Not thirty years ago the funding for schools came from local governments entirely and they did fund Spanish speaking, French speaking, German speaking, and even in some cases in California, Chinese speaking schools. That was the way the public school system ran for the majority of the US history. Some states now days are arguing to let the Federal government allow them to teach in Spanish. It’s gonna happen as soon as they figure out a way to test the basic skill sets relative to English speaking schools. It’s just a matter of time.

  • MrChips

    Mr. Carr, good point on the duel citizenship. It’s one that is often overlooked. That point has precedence in US Law as well, where individuals had their citizenship revoked after the State Department learned of someone who maintained allegiance to a former sovereign.

    Also, if an American citizen attempts to take citizenship in another country the Supreme Court has ruled that the State Department may evaluate that country’s oath to determine if it pits competing allegiances against each other. Canada has actually instituted an oath that specifically allows Americans to maintain an allegiance with another country making it easier for Americans to apply for dual citizenship with them.

  • railwaycharm

    Yes, we have shifted into a tangent.

  • http://bluejives.net/blog bluejives

    Alas, another Michelle was not an American either.

    …This is, of course, known as the Michelle Kwan problem.

    For those that forgot or never have heard the story the first time, here’s the background …

    At the 1998 Nagano Winter Olympics, Tara Lipinski beat Michelle Kwan in the figure skating competition to win the gold medal. MSNBC then ran the headline, “American Beats Out Kwan,” obviously suggesting that Michelle Kwan was not American, which, of course, she is.

    You would think the press would learn from MSNBC’s mistakes.

    You would be wrong.

    In the 2002 winter olympics, Kwan, who entered Salt Lake City as the favorite, lost (again!) to fellow American Sarah Hughes and Russian Irina Slutskaya.

    My local paper, the San Francisco Chronicle (the Cliff Notes of newspapers), discussed Kwan’s history in a cover page article. The author wrote: “Kwan, who persevered for the past four years after losing out on the Olympic gold medal to American Tara Lipinski in Nagano, glumly settled for the bronze medal this time.”

    Similarly, the Seattle Times ran the secondary headline: “American outshines Kwan, Slutskaya in skating surprise.”

    Frankly, I’d rather be recognized as Korean than not be recognized as American. Why should I require my identity to be constantly validated by the ignorant masses by INSISTING upon my American-ness while simultaneously denying my natural identity, which is an insult in itself?

  • http://www.icebergkorea.com Iceberg

    Thank you, bluejives, for pointing that out to me.

    I remember reading a headline a couple of years back that said “American Defeats Roddick” in some tennis tournament. Being naive, I concluded that the American in question was someone lesser-known and therefore it made more editorial sense to simply write “American”. But thanks to you, I now realize that it was all part of a sinister plot by that newspaper to suggest that Andy Roddick isn’t American.

    Keep fighting the good fight jivey.

  • Sonagi

    @Mahathir fan:

    “Again, if only you had read my posting till my last sentence. I did not try to hide the fact that there are racial problems resulting from racist policies. If you had just read the last sentence of my last posting you will find me admiting that:

    “So the result is that the Chinese feel that they are Malaysian first and Chinese second (in most cases until racial preferences kicks in)
    And it is a very true statement. Many Chinese in Malaysia feel that they are Malaysian. Almost none feels any attachment to China other than it is an anchestral homeland. Almost all feel that way until they are met with racial preference policies in which case they feel treated like 2nd class citizens.”

    You did indeed admit briefly the serious issue of racial preferences in your previous post, and I agree with your follow-up statement.

    “The result is that in Malaysia, we even have Chinese language schools from elementary all the way to secondary school (called high school in the US). The same cannot be said about America. Where are the Chinese or Spanish speaking schools in America that are publicly funded?”

    Chinese and Tamil language schools in Malaysia receive almost no funding from the government.

    from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Malaysia

    “Between 1995 and 2000, the Seventh Malaysia Plan allocation for primary education development allocated 96.5% to national primary schools which had 75% of total enrolment. Chinese primary schools (21% enrolment) received 2.4% of the allocation while Tamil primary schools (3.6% enrolment) received 1% of the allocation.

    Despite lack of government financial assistance, most students from Chinese schools excel in standardised tests. Some students from other ethnic backgrounds enrol in Chinese schools for the supposed better education. Opposition politician Lim Guan Eng noted that the government refuses to fund Chinese primary schools despite the fact that 10% or 60,000 students are non-Chinese.”

    In the US, there are bilingual programs in tuition-free public schools in every state in the US, mostly Spanish-English, but other languages like Vietnamese, Arabic, Chinese, or Korean are taught, too. Native English-speaking children now have a chance to learn a foreign language from childhood thanks to a growing number of dual-immersion language programs which teach school subjects in two languages. My district is studying the implementation of a Spanish-English dual language program to complement its existing bilingual program. Like all public schools in the US, our funding comes from local, state, and federal sources; our in-district students pay ZERO tuition. Many of our bilingual students are the children of undocumented workers. Does Malaysia provide a free education to the children of Indonesian migrant workers?

    “Back to the point of this posting, a typical immigrant into the US does not feel that he or she is an American until he or she becomes Americanized in culture. This is a social pressure to conform in order to be accepted. This is what triggered Wie’s father to say, wie is as American only by passport because she still speaks Korean, eats her kim chi; and those values are in general not accepted by Americans as part of American culture. There is a general expectation that Michele or her children will one day grow to prefer to eating apple pies instead of Kim Chi. And when they like apple pies instead of Kim Chi, only then they have become Americanized and be accepted as Americans by her fellow Americans”

    As Mr.Chips pointed out, your comments show you know very little about the reality of immigrant adjustment to American life. Of course, people want to blend in and fit in with their new surroundings. This is true even of sojourners like myself, who lived in Korea and China for many years. I took off my shoes in the house, learned to cook local dishes and sing along to the latest pop hits. I did not feel that I was giving up American culture or surrendering my identity. A person can embrace two cultures. It sounds like Michelle grew up in a Korean family in America, speaking Korean and eating Korean food. In multicultural Hawaii with its strong Asian flavor, she would fit right in with her Japanese-American, Chinese-American, and native Hawaiian classmates. Mahathir-fan, nobody in America gives a s**t what language people speak or what kind of food people eat at home. Moreover, ethnic restaurants are very popular. Korean restaurants are trendy in places like NYC; that’s no surprise since one in every eight residents of the city were born outside the US. When I visited New York, I felt like a foreigner because I was not from the city. A Pakistani taxi driver or a Colombian shop keeper is a true New Yorker. I am not. That is America, Mahathir-fan.

  • Sonagi

    Neither Robert nor Bluejives has responded to my musing about whether Bluejives wrote the infamous hatemail. As a former composition teacher, I learned to recognize a writer’s voice. The voice of the email sounded a lot like Bluejives.

  • Moosehead

    Is that Robert or ‘Richard’? hehehe

  • http://rjkoehler.com Robert

    Sonagi—It wasn’t Bluejives.

  • http://www.koreasojourner.blog-city.com/ usinkorea

    Thanks Iceberk……..A big Kudo for you……….nail on head…

  • railwaycharm

    Michelle Wie missed the cut to get into the U.S. open. Thank G-d!

  • Solo

    QUOTE by ‘Ghola’:

    Hey, I’ve lived in ny for almost thirty years. Having said that…I can honestly say..the only thing american about me, is my u.s passport.. I’ve shredded my u.s citizenship document..gleefuly. bunch of racist pigs.

    COMMENT:

    One word – leave.

  • http://yankabroad.blogspot.com yankabroad

    Golf is for people with nothing better to do.

    What a stupid game. Chasing a small white ball around for four hours!

    I’d rather go surfing.

    RR

  • http://yankabroad.blogspot.com yankabroad

    Let me tell you Haole mofos something about Hawaii.

    Hawaii is for Hawaiians. And Japanese, and Chinese, and Filipinos, and Samoans, and Chorros from Guam, and Koreans, and Puerto Ricans, and Portuguese (who were brought from Madeira to farm the land) and just about every dark-haired, exotic looking person on the face of the Earth.

    But it is NOT for you white, Haole sons of bitches.

    So, if we want to take you tax dollars, live off your riches, buy your TV sets and profit off your profligate culture of convenience, that is OUR right. But remember you white haole bastards descended from European stock. You are not Hawaiian, you will never be.

    Japan may have bombed the shit out of Pearl Harbor, but those were Haoles they were bombing, so we don’t care.

    You’re welcome here as long as you are NOT white.

    Generally speaking.

    There ARE exeptions.

    (And quite frankly, I don’t blame them.)

  • railwaycharm

    WTF?

  • http://www.korealawblog.com Brendon Carr

    Hey, look, Rick Ruffin is still insane.

  • dogbertt

    Reminiscent of one of Seung Cho’s plays.

  • Wedge

    Dude, pass the spliff. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought the guy is a “Haole mofo” himself.

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