By HAISAN
Marmot’s Hole Guest Blogger
So, a Korean music company gives us the Bubble Sisters, and the shit hits the fan. But Japan produces Gosperats, and no one bats an eye. What gives? Why the different reaction?
Bubble Sisters:
Gospe-rats:
And, joy of joys, the Bubble Sisters are back, apparently. Mighty white of them…
61 Comments
Oddly enough, the Japanese group, pictured here, seems more intent upon paying homage to black soul acts from America (tasteless as it may be) whereas the Bubble Sisters seem more derogatory and childish. Needless to say, I would tell them to f***off if they ever come to me about doing work and I’m not even black.
Other than blaming the scumbag “dan-ta-ra” management that manage such acts, there is sometimes a blindness or lack of empathy towards other cultures amongst Koreans in Korea.
It is one of the odd things about Korea that better education could remedy.
Blogs with a Japanese focus are all over this, so WTF should those interested in Korea have any reaction? Or are you just trying out your “honorary white man” moves again today by suggesting that one has to choose sides between Korea and Japan? Is it somehow unfair to lambast Korean tastelessness without giving equal time to Japanese foolishness? What’s the reading on your stockholm syndrometer today? You do still have is strapped to your ankle, right?
And for a little incendiary of my own: having watched a video performance of the Gosperats ([http://www.gosperats.com/] btw), I share Elgin’s view that this is a different order of phenemona altogether. These guys are, comparatively, serious musicians who are doing a respectful sort of homage act. Although that may not be enough to get them past the PC police. The Bubble Sisters on the other hand, don’t even pass the tastelesness test.
‘they’re just paying homage to blacks.’
looks racist to me. don’t care how they play. just racist.
but that’s ok with the expat, he’s got to defend the japanese at the cost of decency.
‘equal time to japan…’
well, let’s face it, there’s very little criticism of japanese racism by expats in japan and that’s the truth. the japanese are just as racist as koreans but you never hear expats whine about japanese racism while they scream holy murder about the korean variety. why is that?
it’s because the japanese treat expats better than they treat themselves. that’s why the expat doesn’t care how the japanese treat koreans, chinese, or filipinos. they’re just interested in themselves. just like you guys. i’ll bet that very few of you would whine so much if the koreans treated you like the japanese treat your brothers in japan. they, btw, are the perfect example of you.
‘japnese racism is really not a problem.’ expat
‘racism is an rare here.’ expat in japan
‘it’s understandabe that japanese think of them as criminals. they do more crime.’ expat in japan in reference to koreans and chinese
‘pass the tastelessness taste…’ spewer
well, you don’t either. sorry.
“that’s the truth” - did you study at the Goebbels school of rhetoric. This phrase is the giveaway that what it modifies is a lie. Which in fact it is, as anyone who takes even a cursory llook at expat blogs in Japan can verify
Interesting admission about Korean racism! So there’s a justification for expat complaints about Korea, and it ain’t just whingeing.
If I’m not to your taste, that’s OK by me because you don’t seem to satisfy the minimum level of sentience to elicit more than a passing glance.
How many countries do you suggest we monitor looking for parallel issues?
Sorry Gentlemen,
You are so wrong. I’ve been in Japan the last 13 years, I try to read the Marmot’s Hole every day (great site), often tell others in Japan to read it - a good site in japan is ‘gaijinpot’ - and was happy just to be a stalker on this site. There’s lot of criticism of japanese racism in japan. The thing is that japanese racism is less ‘in your face’ than Korea, so it doesn’t become so personal.
As for this situation, I remember a few years ago in Slovakia, there was a similar parody of Japanese called ‘Hello Michiko’ where some slovak dressed up in a black wig, myopic contact lenses and triple rimmed glasses and interviewed slovak celebs parodying a north east Asian accent.
The japanese were in uproar and eventually the program was dished.
Asian double standards, a region so sensitive to racial slights, yet so liberal with their racial slurs.
“The thing is that japanese racism is less ‘in your face’ than Korea, so it doesn’t become so personal” (scipio)
Having been in both countries I agree.
“the japanese treat expats better than they treat themselves”
(pawikirogi)
Laughable.
“What’s the reading on your stockholm syndrometer today? You do still have is strapped to your ankle, right?” (sperwer)
Yeah exactly, what makes these dinks tick? Perfect candidates for Korean ‘Learn English’ TV shows.
I bet the Bubble Sisters are stupid enough to think they look better without the curlers and overdone blackface. K-pop, pffff, what a waste of space.
Someone in Japan, said above:
“The thing is that japanese racism is less ‘in your face’ than Korea, so it doesn’t become so personal.”
Well said. And I think it’s true about more than just racism.
“the japanese are just as racist as koreans ”
Well, I suggest you to read a lot more about the island people before making any comment about them.
Just about everything else, Japanese “racism” is better quality than Korean racism full of hatred that’s unsurpassed by anyone in the world. In fact, I would venture to say there is no “racism” in Japan as we know it in Korea. It’s rather what I would consider racialism, rather than racism. That’s a different thing. Korean racism is based on pure hatred of other races and superiority of the Korean “race”, while Japanese racialism is based on respect for each different races and identity. One is hating others, while the other is celebrating the differences. It’s really offensive that you would compare the Bubble Sisters with the Gosperats. There should be no comparison. The so called Japanese ‘racism’ is just more whining from the Korean squatters and illegal immigrants in Japan who have been a problematic race of people. They are always demanding special privileges (more and more but never enough) and are the biggest source of pollution and crime in Japan.
“Japanese racialism is based on respect for each different races and identity”
That’s one of the silliest comments I’ve heard for quite a while.
Sperwer wrote:
“Or are you just trying out your ‘honorary white man’ moves again today by suggesting that one has to choose sides between Korea and Japan?”
WTF!? Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with what Haisan wrote, what kind of frickin’ comment is “honorary white man”?
I meant exactly what I wrote… I was wondering why the two seemingly groups got a different reaction in the expat community. I never called anyone “racist”. The Bubble Sisters got slammed pretty hard across the board, while the Japan news sites I go to were a lot more tolerant about Gosperats. I was not criticizing Japan for Gosperats or trying to forgive Korea for the Bubble Sisters or whatever (or the opposite). There seemed to be a different reaction to two similar ideas and I was curious as to why.
I am inclined to agree with Mr. Elgin’s comments about paying homage vs. being derogatory, but I cannot explain why the two are different. I was hoping someone might help me out.
Sewing:
That was tongue in cheek and aimed at The Marnot, abiout whose status there has been some past playfulness; I didn;t notice that the post had been put up by someone else.
My two won is that the Japanese group is just as offensive, homage or no, and also what does this have to do with Korea? These constant penis-measuring contests are boring, especially in this case, where both countries look like dicks.
This has been said before, but it seems pretty damn clear: the Korean group look revolting, with sneering faces that do nothing less of mocking their subject. The Japanese team look respectable.
Is pretending to be another race for the sake of entertainment appropriate? If you think no, then both of these are in appropriate. Is pretending to be another race for the sake of entertainment appropriate if a certain level of respect is preserved? If you think yes, then it’s easy to see why the Bubble Chics are louldly criticized and the Gosperats aren’t (which I am only assuming for the purposes of this comment).
But since Haisan’s occasional rants at MH are apparently for the sole purpose of Plunge-esque Japan-bashing, I almost wonder why I bother counterpointing…
Blackface is always offensive, there is no appropriate occasion for it.
The Japanese are just as racist as the Koreans, if not more so. They are just more polite about it. I prefer the Korean style since at least I can see it on the surface.
Has anyone commenting here ever rented an apartment in Japan? First of all, most landlords ban the gaijin right off the bat. You’ll see it in the advertisements. Then, once you do find one you like that lowers itself to accepting you you’ll have to jump through major hoops. Last time I was in Tokyo I had to go through the embarrassment of having my Japanese distributor co-sign my fricken’ lease, since my American company wasn’t “established” in Japan.
In Korea, if anything I’ve been treated better by landlords than they treat Koreans on the same property. And they’re quite happy to rent to me without any Korean co-sgning the lease.
I know this is just one aspect of life I’m comparing, and in other aspects Japan is certainly superior, but cut the nonsense about Japan not being racist.
I don’t live in Japan, mulchy, and know nothing about expat life there. I also don’t follow the Japanese pop scene, so I had never heard of these black-face troubadours.
I wish I could be as intelligent and omniscient as you, but I just don’t have that magic blood.
The Japanese are just as racist as the Koreans, if not more so.
The Japanese are 2.26 times more racist than the Koreans.
Ahh, the Plunge-esque Japan-bashing commences! We start with blackface, from which we get to bullshit statistics on “racism,” which Kushibo appears to take seriously.
Wedge: there are serious issues about real estate discrimination in Japan which I am glad to report have recently resulted in a successful court cases by plaintiffs suing discriminatory landlords. However, guarantors are a statutory requirement, and if your American employer is not an incorporated entity in Japan, and thus not a legal person capable of providing such a guarantee, it’s not surprisinging that a landlord/real estate agent refused to accept that as a guarantor.
Curzon–I didn’t know that a “guarantor” was a statutory requirement. Something like that should be left to the free market, as it is in Korea. Over here, we don’t need no steenkeen’ guarantors. My signature is good enough.
Kushibo–OK, you win. Who knows who is more racist? I’m just trying to point out that there’s plenty of nonsense on both sides of the Sea of Japan [/ducks].
Ahh, the Plunge-esque Japan-bashing commences! We start with blackface, from which we get to bullshit statistics on “racism,” which Kushibo appears to take seriously.
Does going into protect-Japan mode just make you go batty, Curzon? The post I linked was obviously meant as satire (about the only serious statement in it was at the beginning, where I referred to the Bubble Sisters (post forthcoming) as “horribly misguided and culturally insensitive”). And even if you thought it was serious, it takes a few digs at Korea as well.
Curzon, get a grip. Kushibo’s making a joke.
The Bubble Sisters did their BF shtick because their creative management told them would be cool (not). This nonsense has no basis in music, art or good judgement. The Gosperats based their look and music upon the musicians and music that they admire (too much). Their work seems to be based on the tradition and music, though I have my qualms about taste and appropriateness.
In short, if one thinks about it in terms of artistic merit, Bubble Sisters: 0, Gosperats:1
Doing the blackface thing is still not a good idea.
Wedge, that is the first time that I hearing about someone having a difficult time renting in Japan due to race. I would expect that to be the case in Korea, but not Japan. I have a hard time believing what you claim.
Comparing Korea to Japan is like comparing a cheap trap can Hyundai with an Accura or a Lexus. Japanese are a noble race of people with Samurai warrior spirit pumping thu their veins. Japanese are born warriors, Koreans are born losers and slaves. Japan means cool, Korea is not. Japan has anime, sushi, gadgets, Sony, and Toyota. Korea has lots of spit, barf, broken windows, buildings that collapse on their own, cheap immitation knock offs like Samsuck and Hyunday noway. Japan is clean, beautiful and serene. Korea has some of the most filthiest and ugliest cities in the world. Seoul reminds me of India. At least Indians don’t hoark, spit, and shit all over the streets in public as in Korea. Japan has sushi, Korea has kimchi - disgustingly smelly and unappealing. Japanese are like Jews - honest, smart, and blessed by God - a chosen people. Koreans are like Arabs - violent, noisy, dirty, stubborn, unreasonable, and cursed by God - bunch of outcasts living in a hermit kingdom. North Korea is the true face of Korea. South Korea looks only comparably better because of the generosity of Japan, US, and other generous nations. Without that, South Korea would look exactly like North Korea.
As Curzon said, “the Korean group look revolting, with sneering faces that do nothing less of mocking their subject”. “The Japanese team look respectable”, and I would like to add, handsome. The Japanese team is honoring the blacks for their propensity for musical talent. While Korean group consists of fat ugly broads with hair rollers and thick lips. The Japanese group can sing. But we all know about the K pop and their talent level (or lack thereof). That is what I mean by racialism. The Japanese group has self respect and they are celebrating the differences of each cultures of the world. On the other hand, foreigners can’t even walk down the streets without being attacked, spat upon, and accosted verbally. The Koreans should stop whining about “racism” in Japan when they should be looking in the mirror and see what’s looking back.
Sorry, I should have proof read what I wrote. I typed like a mad man and posted it.
I should have wrote,
“On the other hand, foreigners can’t even walk down the streets without being attacked, spat upon, and accosted verbally in Korea”.
Wedge: We can entertain debates over whether a real estate guarantor is necessary or not, but guarantors are an age-old legal concept that have existed since the first Civil Code was first adopted from France in the 1870s.
Kushibo: If that’s “obviously meant as satire,” you should read more party pooper before trying again.
Mailman: From personal experience and countless anecdotes and can state that the real estate discrimination reality in Japan (i.e. some landlords not renting to foreigners because they’re foreigners) is true. Additionally, there is no statutory remedy to this problem. However, some district courts have recently ruled that irrational discrimination in this regard is a violation of human rights.
I’m just trying to figure out if mailman’s work is satire too or if he’s being serious.
Mr. Elgin - again, good points. Clearly the Gosperats are well-dressed and portrayed as cool. The Bubble Sisters are in “Aunt Jamima” mode, with curlers and pajamas… much more derogatory. I had not looked at the photos that way at first. I guess I would need to see the Gosperats playing live, to get a better idea if they are being respectful or clowns.
I do believe Japan had a mini-wave of blackface R&B bands in the 1980s. The Gosperats are a merger of two of the most popular (the Gospellers and Rats & Star).
As for Curzon:
> But since Haisan’s occasional rants at MH are apparently
> for the sole purpose of Plunge-esque Japan-bashing…
I would not know where to begin critiquing this chimerical fantasy.
“The blackface minstrel act was a very popular form of entertainment in 19th-century America. It was also a highly racist depiction of African Americans.”
http://www.npr.org/templates/s.....Id=1919122
I can quote many, many, historians who agree that blackface, as part of the minstrel acts, was considered racist even by contemporary standards — there is no such thing as a “respectful” use of it, only an ignorant one.
That said, even though Koreans tend to obsess with Japan I don’t see how this post is relevant to this blog.
In both cases the blackface is a mere gimmick. Isn’t playing the music WELL homage enough?
Sperwer–
It seems to me the initial posting had NO name attached for the first hour or two. I assumed it was a Marmot post too. Or, maybe we both missed it…
Chimerical: “Given to or indulging in unrealistic fantasies or fantastic schemes.”
Remove “sole” from my recent comment for a higher degree of accuracy. Two of your six posts here (and the two most recent ones) have been beef with something about Japan. How did you get on this blog, anyway?
I asked him to post here.
And as for posting about Japan, well, it’s not like Japan blogs don’t post about Korea. Heck, Japundit recently made a post about Hwang Woo-suk that had absolutely nothing to do with Japan other than possibly give support to assertions made by some Japanese and their foreign friends that Koreans are wackos that can’t be trusted (wait until they see the upcoming edition of PD Sucheop dealing with the ‘US gov’t conspiracy to take down Hwang’).
Curzon:
Beef? What beef? I asked why two groups (one Korean, one Japanese) got such different reactions in the international community for doing something so similar. Not only did I not accuse Japan of anything, I clarified my point in a subsequent comment:
> I was not criticizing Japan for Gosperats or trying to forgive Korea
> for the Bubble Sisters or whatever (or the opposite). There seemed
> to be a different reaction to two similar ideas and I was curious as to why.
The other post was Yasukuni-related, and I found it interesting that a leading politican in Japan was being moderate on a touchy issue for Korea and China. If anything, the point of that post was that Japanese opinion is far less uniform than many Koreans give it credit for.
As someone who has been “accused” of being a Nippophile (a Japanese friend’s term) much of my life, and who spends a significant amount of time there for work and quite likes Japan, I find it bizarre that I’m a Japan basher now.
> How did you get on this blog, anyway?
Mad fellatio skills. A sinister combination of my Jewish, Zainichi and Freemason heritage. Plus I threw a goat down Robert’s well.
Curz, “chimerical” is perhaps being far more poetic than a literally minded person such as yourself might merit, as you do indeed appear to have some problem with reading comprehension. Everybody else seems to have gotten the joke, so unless you suffer from autism or another affliction that impairs your ability to interpret irony, I can’t see why you’re getting so bunchy.
Mailman,
It is clear that you hate Korea. If so, why do you have interest in Korea or even live there? Is it because you’re a Jew?
Eh?
what a way to promote Korea, gaemee. Idiot.
“It is clear that you hate Korea. If so, why do you have interest in Korea or even live there?”
I think Richard at first like Korea. But Korea didn’t turn out the way he had expected. So that love turns to hate as he cannot return to where he was from, perhaps from contractual obligations, etc. etc..
Who the hell is Richard?
As far as I can remember, “Mailman” appeared for the first time on this site shortly after “Chonko” was barred. Coincidence? I think not.
Robert, Richard, you angry white expats all look the same….
Richard? I think mahathir_fan is fond of Dick and was inspired to post by the fellatio reference.
This thread is starting to vaguely resemble an “I Love Lucy” episode. Of course, I’ve been puking my guts out the past 24 hours and may be suffering from dehydration.
Robert,
Don’t take this the wrong way, but most of the time I come here to read the comments which these days give me more amusement than the Sunday comics ever did. Maybe you should implement something new called ‘No commenting allowed while drunk or on drugs’
First we have Mailman’s classic comment, closely followed by this gem:
“Mailman,
It is clear that you hate Korea. If so, why do you have interest in Korea or even live there? Is it because you’re a Jew?”
LOL! More, people, more! Keep ‘em coming, please!
“what a way to promote Korea, gaemee. Idiot.”
I doubt that you’ll ever be able to support what you say.
Due to the weird positings herein, the homeland security alert level just went up . . .
:-0
“Japan has sushi, Korea has kimchi - disgustingly smelly and unappealing. Japanese are like Jews - honest, smart, and blessed by God - a chosen people. Koreans are like Arabs - violent, noisy, dirty, stubborn, unreasonable, and cursed by God - bunch of outcasts living in a hermit kingdom. North Korea is the true face of Korea. South Korea looks only comparably better because of the generosity of Japan, US, and other generous nations. Without that, South Korea would look exactly like North Korea. ”
I apologize to Gaemee. I’m the idiot. I didn’t read what Mailman wrote.
Mailman, in general, merchants are not really honest people. You should know that if you ever did any business. Not that I’m saying certain people are merchants or anything, but historically they were forced to be so, due to persecution and barring out from other jobs. Jacob wasn’t the most honest person in the history of mankind. He was blessed for sure, though.
Mailman, consume lots of natto beans. Ok?
See, Shelton?
This is why comments on a blog are important. Often more important and relative than the blog posts themselves.
Relevant, I mean.
Being of African American and Korean heritage, I must admit that no matter what “Blackface is offensive!” When the Bubble Sister’s hit the press in the US it was offensive then and still remains offensive!
From my experiences traveling to S. Korea, Korean’s are racial.
No. Koreans are racist. Japanese are racialist. As I have tried to point out (and some people still don’t get it), it’s a totally different animal.
Sperwer, Aletheia: okay.
I’m not even going to waste electrons trying to comment on or make sense of the direction this thread has gone in. Bizarre.
@Curzon
I thought Kushibo’s satirical piece presenting statistics on racism was clever and obviously not meant to be taken seriously. Glad you set the record straight on housing discrimination in Japan. I never lived in Japan, but I was turned away from a budget ryokan near Todai, even though the sign in Japanese clearly stated a room was available. The owner wouldn’t even look at me or say a word when I asked about the room and pointed out the sign.
Mailman…
I don’t understand how you could possible feel that blackface is anything but offensive. And to say that Japanese are racialist and Korean’s are not is such an untruth! If anything both are racist and are racialist!
“Japanese are like Jews - honest, smart, and blessed by God - a chosen people.”
hahahahaha…
2 Trackbacks
Blackface and Outrage…
Over at the Marmot’s Hole, a contributor called Haisan asks why it is that the blackface act of a Japanese musical group called the Gosperats has managed to generate so little outrage compared to that evoked by the Korean Bubble…
[...] Not sure if you’ve checked this post over at the Marmot’s Hole concerning the Bubble Sisters vs. their Japanese counterparts the Gosperats but if you haven’t, then you should, and not just because of the post itself, but for some of the classic comments that follow. Let me give you two examples to show you what I mean: [...]