UPDATE: KBS and KBS suggests the real aim behind the Wae “maritime exploration” mission is to get a leg up on Korea prior to an international meeting in Germany in June that will discuss seabed place names. Analysts point out that should the Wae stick their names on the seabed, it could become grounds for Japan to claim sovereignty over the Dokdo islets. Apparently, this line of thought was sparked by the Nihon Keizai Shimbun.
KBS also noted the rather odd position Japan is in. Some believe that Tokyo will soon attempt to submit the Dokdo issue before the ICJ, but at the same time, it’s trying to keep the Senkaku Island dispute (where Japan has actual control, like Korea has on Dokdo) from becoming an international issue.
ORIGINAL POST:
The devious Wae pirates across the East Sea are planning to invade Dokdo!
Tension between South Korea and Japan rocketed yesterday as the South Korean government summoned the Japanese ambassador to Seoul and questioned him about Tokyo’s plan to launch a maritime exploration project in waters near the Dokdo Islets, which Japan calls Takeshima.
The islets in the East Sea (Sea of Japan) are occupied by Korea, but also claimed by Japan. Japanese civilians and the government have since 1953 sought to occupy the islets, but South Korea has maintained firmly that the small rocky outcrops are its sovereign territory.
According to South Korea’s Foreign Ministry, the Japanese Maritime Safety Agency informed the International Hydrographic Organization yesterday about its planned sea probe. A Japanese exploration vessel is scheduled to enter the waters near Dokdo Islets and stay until June 30.
Where is the intended target of this dastardly attack? Well, according to the Chosun Ilbo:
The locations Japanese officials provided for their survey were to the East of Ulleung Island and the Dokdo islets at 37″ 40′ northern latitude and 131″ 35′ eastern longitude, 39″ 30′ northern latitude and 132″ 37′ eastern longitude, 38″ 20′ northern latitude and 136″ 5′ eastern longitude, and 36″ 27′ by 135″ 0′.
See the map below, ripped off from the Hankyoreh:
The red is where the Wae “maritime research craft” will conduct operations. The black designates waters open to fishing boats from both Korea and Japan according to the New Korea-Japan Fisheries Agreement of 1999.
Anyway, Vice Foreign Minister Yu Myung-hwan didn’t mince words in warning the Wae ambassador:
“Any research work in South Korea’s EEZ without Seoul’s approval is an illegal transgression,” Yu told Oshima. “Should Japan push forward with the plan, South Korea will use all possible means to block it.”
But clearly, the Wae know not shame:
The Japanese envoy replied: “The Japanese government’s position is that the waters Japan plans to survey are Japan’s EEZ. Anyway, I will report Seoul’s position on the issue to the Japanese government.”
Yes, they would be Japan’s EEZ if Japan owned Dokdo. Anyway, the ambassador was backed up by no less a Wae chieftain than Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe:
Japan’s position was reiterated by its Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe. He argued there is no problem with his country’s research plan because the areas belong to Japan’s EEZ.
Abe also warned that any attempt by the Koreans to stop the so-called “maritime exploration project” would be “unacceptable.”
No word on whether the Japanese embassy has started to burn its documents.
We’ve yet to learn when the Japanese will set sail, but given the Wae proclivity for surprise attacks, this is to be expected; as the Lost Nomad noted:
One minute they’re planning to explore to measure a sea route, the next minute they’re sinking the Pacific Fleet.
No doubt, the Armed Forces of the Republic of Korea, fully aware of the lessons of Port Arthur and Pearl Harbor, will be on guard against any and all acts of Wae aggression. We’ve yet to get a full order-of-battle, but when a small craft carrying four Yakuza nutters threatened to land on the Dokdo islets in May 2004, Seoul responded by dispatching five warships, two aircraft, five rubber dinghies and 15 commandos to the islets. I’d be shocked if the Japanese didn’t see the underside of at least one F-15K this time around. I don’t know what the Wae will be bringing to the dance, but you know the little bastards are up to no good when they’re building one-tenth scale models of the battleship Yamato in Kure.
The Japanese warmongers will likely be escorted by officials from Reuters, the CIA and the U.S. State Department. Oh yeah, and the Canadians.
In an editorial, the Chosun Ilbo, likening the Japanese move to the Unyo-maru Incidenct of 1875 (a rather interesting historical tidbit in itself, mirroring as it did Japan’s own experience with the Black Ships), laid the blame for this latest flare-up squarely at the feet of–you guessed it–the Roh administration:
President Roh Moo-hyun, around this time last year, vowed to put an end to Japan’s hegemonic ambitions. Since then, the only measure the government has taken was to cancel all further bilateral summits. That Tokyo continues with its stealth campaign to take the islets suggests the absence of a summit is causing no great inconvenience or regret there.
The U.S. has usually offered opportunities to resolve such disputes behind the scenes whenever South Korea and Japan became mired in them. Not this time. Because the bilateral alliance between Korea and the U.S. is shaky, the cooperative framework among South Korea, the U.S. and Japan has collapsed. The public must wonder what action Seoul has in mind as Japan carries on its campaign to seize Dokdo.
The Kyunghyang Shinmun analyzes Wae intentions. One of course is to weaken Korean claims on the Dokdo islets. Another major one, the paper points out, is to strengthen Japanese demands that the EEZ borderline be drawn between the Dokdo islets and Ulleung-do. Seoul and Tokyo held four rounds of negotiations over the EEZ boundry between 1996 and 2000, but talks collapse thanks to the Dokdo issue. The 1999 fisheries accord deals only with, well, fish. It did not establish the borders of the Korean EEZ. The paper also noted that Abe Shinzo is battling former Chief Cabinet Secretary Fukuda Yasuo for leadership of the LDP; the party will choose its new leader in September. The paper suggested that by highlighting the Dokdo issue, Abe could weaken Fukuda, who is known to be relatively dovish toward Korea and China.
115 Comments
maybe it’s those pesky ear mounds that make koreans so nervous about the japanese. or maybe it’s because the jap pm visits a shrine to honor war criminals.
those are the kinds of things that don’t seem to bother you. that’s why you’re becoming just like any given garden variety expat whose hobby seems to be mocking koreans whenever he can.
Very thorough, Marmot. I haven’t had a chance to look at all the links, but I was all ready to ask about what the 1999 Fisheries Agreement would say about doing stuff in these waters.
As I’ve repeatedly said, both Roh and Koizumi are responsible for the terrific deterioration of diplomatic relations between these two sides. Both have gone so far away from the future-oriented and pragmatic Obuchi-Kim agreement of 1998 (?) that it will essentially take new leadership from each (or a lobotomy from each) to bring things back the way they should be.
Whoops…
I was all ready to ask about the 1999 Fisheries Agreement… and there you had it right at the end.
By the way, the 2004 incident with the “yakuza” boat didn’t go through in part because Japanese authorities in the Okishoto urged, where they stopped for refueling (?), urged them not to go through with it.
pawikirogi: maybe it’s those pesky ear mounds that make koreans so nervous about the japanese. or maybe it’s because the jap pm visits a shrine to honor war criminals.
The “war criminals” at Yasukuni are Class A war criminals, i.e. war criminals in the sense that George Bush is a war criminal - for being part of the top leadership of a country that started a war many people opposed. Class C war criminals were the type that carried out massacres - things like the Rape of Nanking. These aren’t honored at Yasukuni. I can’t blame Koizumi for visiting the shrine. Japanese leaders engaged in a war of territorial expansion. But they weren’t responsible for the misconduct of Japanese troops. Unlike the Nazis, they did not order the systematic extermination of the people they considered the lesser races.
Zhang Fei said:
“Japanese leaders engaged in a war of territorial expansion. But they weren’t responsible for the misconduct of Japanese troops.”
At the risk of getting sidetracked: if leaders are not responsible for the behaviour of their troops then who the fV#k is ?
This is in my view a sevrely distorted way of looking at the goings on of WW2 era Japan but that was not the point of this post so I’ll leave it at that.
More saliently - Dokdo/Takeshima/Hojuin’s new caretaker protectorate who gives a shit what you call it, it’s a few crappy little islands that nobody is going to go to anyway (well maybe a few senile old folk to prove a point but after that we’ll all get bored and forget about it). Who gives 2 flying farks what color it is on the map.
May I ask for some consistency from the US ex-pats living in South Korea who defend Japan?
Ok, class C Japanese war criminals were involved in the Rape of Nanking?
I thought some of you say the Rape of Nanking never happenned.
I should go visit the German museum of war heroes, where I could find a replica of the Reich’s Parliament, a model of German tanks, and airplanes, Rommel’s original uniform in display, but no sign of SS leaders or Hitler…
Such a thing does not exist.
Such a thing exists in Japan. Inconsiderate ass holes.
Dear Zhang Fei, I suppose China is not harboring any class A war crimminals since the Chinese Government uses different words for what went on in Tibet and other places (?). As myopic as many Americans are regarding their leadership, they would never tolerate or sustain the generation of wolves that China has claimed as their leadership caste.
Pawikirogi,
Korea deserves mocking for the childish way it is dealing with Japan. Five warships, two aircraft, five rubber dinghies, and fifteen commandos to deal with four Japanese in a pleasure boat? How unbelievably silly! I wonder what they are going to deploy to deal with a survey ship?
Kushibo,
Roh and company are responsible for the deteriorating relations with Japan; in fact, they seem to want it that way. I suspect it is part of some crazy scheme to try get closer to China. I would not be susprised if Roh has not been calling up the Chinese and saying things like, “Did you hear what I said to the Japanese today? They are probably still in shock. hehehe.”
Roh has two choises: STOP Japan exploring the zone “by all means” and make it become an international dispute, or DO little and the leftist government will be gone for good. Either ways, his administration is cornered. The US might be behind this strategy, but the burnt-out sunshine policy is no longer acceptable for the freedom countries as it become obvious at the 6way talk in Tokyo.
wjk: May I ask for some consistency from the US ex-pats living in South Korea who defend Japan?
Ok, class C Japanese war criminals were involved in the Rape of Nanking?
I thought some of you say the Rape of Nanking never happenned.
I should go visit the German museum of war heroes, where I could find a replica of the Reich’s Parliament, a model of German tanks, and airplanes, Rommel’s original uniform in display, but no sign of SS leaders or Hitler…
Such a thing does not exist.
Such a thing exists in Japan. Inconsiderate ass holes.
Japan did nothing that hadn’t been done by other Asian powers. The difference is that they did it in the 20th century. Over the millenia, there have been many rapes of Nanking. The most recent Chinese incident was during the Taiping Rebellion in the 19th century. The only Japanese one occurred in the 20th century.
As to German war museums, they do exist. Germany has a military record to be proud of, although the ends to which its capabilities were put are, in my view, regrettable. It would be surprising if Germany did not have any museums covering WWII, where the German military covered itself in glory even in defeat - it absorbed 80% of the American war effort, 90% of the British war effort and 100% of the Soviet war effort, and held out for 6 long years. Two months after the 100% of the American war effort was switched to the Pacific theater, following Germany’s surrender, Okinawa fell. Another month later, Japan surrendered.
Hojuin: At the risk of getting sidetracked: if leaders are not responsible for the behaviour of their troops then who the fV#k is ?
This is in my view a sevrely distorted way of looking at the goings on of WW2 era Japan but that was not the point of this post so I’ll leave it at that.
By that logic, Nixon was responsible for the My Lai massacre. Fact is that when a soldier commits an atrocity, he alone is responsible for it, unless his superior ordered him to carry it out. Truman was responsible for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which killed tens of thousands. Churchill was responsible for the fire-bombings of Hamburg and Dresden, which killed hundreds of thousands. Tojo was not responsible for the Rape of Nanking.
“Dear Zhang Fei, I suppose China is not harboring any class A war crimminals since the Chinese Government uses different words for what went on in Tibet and other places (?). As myopic as many Americans are regarding their leadership, they would never tolerate or sustain the generation of wolves that China has claimed as their leadership caste.” (R. Elgin)
Exactly. The US has had its El Salvadors, Iraqs, and Vietnams just as the Chinese have had their Cambodias, Tibets, Burmas and Vietnams. But the extent to which China represses its domestic population makes even Bush, war criminal that he is, seem like he’s been eating at least a few freedom fries. Americans can at least get rid of him. It’s two more years vs. God-knows-when.
Hu JinTao is certainly a war criminal. Among other atrocities he was directly responsible for sending 10 Chinese divisions into Tibet in 1989 following demonstrations after the death of the Panchen Lama. Reformist my ass.
wjk: I should go visit the German museum of war heroes, where I could find a replica of the Reich’s Parliament, a model of German tanks, and airplanes, Rommel’s original uniform in display, but no sign of SS leaders or Hitler…
Chinese, Koreans and Japanese alike all admire the Germans - each sympathizes with the German ideal of the herrenvolk. In fact, each country thinks of itself as the embodiment of the herrenvolk. I think Koreans should be a little more tempered in their appreciation of the Germans. Jews, Gypsies and Slavs were to Germany what Koreans and other East Asians were to Japan - inferior races. If the Japanese had acted like the Germans in their conquered territories, there would be no Koreans left alive today - after an occupation of 50 years. There is a reason that the Germans are so apologetic - they wanted the lands conquered from the “inferior races” populated with Germans, not natives who were to be assimilated into German culture. In the German mind, inferior races had no right to exist, and the best thing to do was to put them out of their misery, by either massacring them outright or working them to death on starvation rations in slave labor camps. Ironically, if Japan had acted like Germany in Korea, what is now the Korean peninsula would either be a Japanese province or a Chinese province thoroughly void of Korean speakers.
731 and Hellfire Pass anyone?
Zhang Fei,
Lyndon B. Johnson was President when the My Lai massacre occurred.
I find it amazing that in America, there is this drive to blame Vietnam on Richard M. Nixon, when it was John F. Kennedy who started it all, and Lyndon B. Johnson who continued the vast majority of it. Nixon ended it. American culture is so twisted towards exhonerating Kennedy like he never had anything to do with it. Very weird.
Does JFK, “war mongerer “, upset too many liberals?
Zhang Fei, good point about wars and atrocities. Good link on the museum, but I think the Y shrine is in a totally different spirit than the one you provided thru the link.
I say, let North Korea deal with the Japanese. They’ve got the hardware to protect Dokdo and KJI doesn’t worry about public opinion.
“Truman was responsible for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which killed tens of thousands. Churchill was responsible for the fire-bombings of Hamburg and Dresden, which killed hundreds of thousands. Tojo was not responsible for the Rape of Nanking.”
Responsible yes but with different justifications. The Rape of Nanjing was carried out by an agressor (or ‘perhaps’ as you infer by a multitude of out of control middle-men). Hiroshima and Dresden were much more justifiable as acts of war in response to/defense of such agressors.
It’s about time for Korea to cool it. Japan is not a country to back down. This thing can blow over.
Who wins? China!
In a sense, Korea is fighting a war for the Chinese. Let the Chinese deal with Japan. Korea should find the way to skip out of the upcoming China-Japan war.
Let the Japanese come and do some measuring. Nothing big.
Who knows? North Korean ships may suddenly appear and shoot at the Japanese vessle. Rho and KJI may be working out details on that scenario right now.
“I say, let North Korea deal with the Japanese. They’ve got the hardware to protect Dokdo and KJI doesn’t worry about public opinion.” (frogmouth)
Interesting, never thought of that scenario. Wonder how the fishing is around the glorious little islands?
Zheng Fai said: “By that logic, Nixon was responsible for the My Lai massacre”
My Lai was a platoon (possibly comapny?) of American Infantrymen, Nanking was a batallion plus of the Japanese army, the numbers do not tally there and IMO a comaprison cannot be made. Nanking was just a speck in the scheme of Tojo’s nastyness during the war and to suggest the leadership of the time are ‘not such bad fellas’ just because they didn’t stick any bamboo under any fingernails is bloody stupid.
Ah, geez, I read in my history book that Vietnam began during the Truman era, and Kennedy inherited it?? Hum. Actually, if one wants to back even further, we could blame the French, whom Truman made all those loans to…….
FYI, the former ROK government had declared in 1998 that Ullung-do, not Dok-do/Takeshima, is its starting point of EEZ.
http://japanese.donga.com/srv/.....6041520258
In an editorial, the Chosun Ilbo, liken[ed] the Japanese move to the Unyo-maru Incidenct of 1875 (a rather interesting historical tidbit in itself, mirroring as it did Japan’s own experience with the Black Ships)[…]
That mirroring wasn’t entirely coincidental – in In Korea With Marquis Ito, George Ladd relates that Inoue Kaoru brought along a copy of Bernard Taylor’s history of the Black Ship expedition when he went to Korea to force the signing of the Treaty of Ganghwa in 1876, since “he feared the Koreans might show signs of obduracy, in which case it would become necessary for his colleague and himself to have recourse to some of the measures which Commodore Perry found so efficacious. Inouye wished to have the book so that he could refresh his memory and be better perfected in the part if it became necessary to play it.”
There is an interesting article in Korean Chosun Daily about the strained China-Japan relationship and the possibility of the war between these two super powers.
http://www.chosun.com/magazine.....50121.html
The author predicts the two countries are at warpath due to the heavy deposits of oil and natural gas at the islands located at their border area. And, the ambition to be the top dog in Asia.
I agree. I have been saying the same thing for last two years. My prediction is that two countries will go to a war within ten years.
With looming possibility of the war, Korea must be very, very and very careful about where it stands. If it belongs to the wrong side, the coming war between China and Japan may end Korea as a country and Koreans as a people.
There’s no reason to be tense about this. Just attack any invader. And Japan won’t attack. Japan is only worry to make a good name to the world.
‘Korea deserves mocking for the childish way it is dealing with Japan. Five warships, two aircraft, five rubber dinghies, and fifteen commandos to deal with four Japanese in a pleasure boat? How unbelievably silly! I wonder what they are going to deploy to deal with a survey ship?’
gbevers,
that’s just basic geopolitical strategy. overwhelming show of force. works almost every time. every country with the ability does it. and yeah, it’s always silly. of course, if korea wasn’t prepared to deploy that force, and it had been just the beginning of the erosion of korean sovereignty and eventual annexation by japan, again, gbevers jr. some day would be blogging about how korea had deserved the annexation because they were militarily inept and failed to respond to those early incursions. (lots of sarcasm here all around.)
japan allowing a few thug/miscreants to cause an international incident would have been childish. that they are deploying a survey ship knowing full well how it would play out is just slightly less childish.
” 역사적으로 볼 때 이 지역은 원래 중국 영토였으나 청일전쟁 이후 1855년 일본은 이 섬들을 오키나와에 편입시켰다. 1945년 2차 대전에서 패배한 일본은 대만을 중국에, 댜오위다오는 미국에 이양했다. 미국은 1972년 오키나와를 일본에 반환하면서 이 지역까지 포함시켰다. 일본 정부는 “국제법상 ‘주인 없는 땅(無主地)’을 선점한 것으로 아무 문제가 없다”고 주장하고 있다. 반면 중국은 “역사상 명백한 자국 영토를 청나라가 쇠약한 틈을 타서 훔친 것으로 국제법에 어긋난다”고 주장하고 있다.
일본은 지난해 최남단 바위섬 오키노토리(沖の鳥)에 자국 영토임을 밝히는 영구 표지판을 설치했다. 이 섬엔 이미 일본 땅임을 주장하는 경계비가 있는데도 불구, 영구 표지판을 세운 것은 섬이 아니라는 중국의 주장을 반박하기 위한 것이다. 일본의 극우 정치인 이시하라 신타로(石原愼太郞) 도쿄도(東京都) 지사는 지난해 5월 20일 이 섬을 방문, 일장기를 흔들며 1인 시위를 벌인 적도 있다. ”
http://www.chosun.com/magazine.....50121.html
Baduk’s link…
You guys should check out the link that baduk provided. I highly doubt that there will be a Japan-China war, one reason being because Japan has a lot of factories in China.
It’s interesting to note that Japan also has a Dokdo-like issue with China. Japan is essentially claiming an uninhabited island that has little to do with established historical occupation, but has more to do with 20th century occupation during a time when it’s opponent was weak.
Same theme as the Dokdo issue.
Japanese interest in these uninhabited islands are mainly vested in the fact that there are economical interests to gain from these islands.
Interesting to note also that the US gave this “land” to Japan. If Rhee Syng Man didn’t put up a watch tower and gun presence in Dokdo, Japan would be the owner of Takeshima to this day.
Marmot–”Unexceptable?” Does this mean unable to make an exception? And watch loose vs. lose, eh? We’re relying on you.
If anything, Japan should be claming Sahalin back from Russia, not claiming these uninhabited islands tied to natural resources from Korea and China. Japan should be ashamed of itself, and claiming these remote uninhabited islands seem to be psychologically empowering Japanese nationlists who hold the Pan East Imperial Japanese Empire period in positive light.
Look, Germany gave up historically German land to France (Alsace-Lorraine, last I checked they still speak some German there), Poland, and other neighbors. They do fine, even without those lands.
The Japanese are a poor example. As a defeated World War II aggresor nation, the least they could do is not anger the nations it oppressed thru that War by claiming these lands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Wei-kuo
Taiwan and Japan both have ties with Nazi Germany. I didn’t know about Taiwan, until a Chinese friend of mine said something like Germany had influence on China. Presumably, Taiwan wants to hide it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_Relations
Ahn Eak Tae composed the South Korean national anthem. Years later after that, about 10 years or so later, he would submit to the Japanese Empire and cozy up with them. This would allow him to work in Third Reich territory with Strauss, the composer. Credit to ohmynews.com for that information. However, I disagree with ohmynews’s view that Korea should have a new national anthem. Ahn was just playing the game of survival in later times. Although I’m not sure why he accepted Spanish citizenship under Franco instead of a South Korena one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahn_Eak-tae
It’s probably true that Germany would have gotten rid of Koreans, if they had Korea. We didn’t have much to offer the Germans like mainland China did. Although it’s ironic that China didn’t really help out the German needs. Chiang Kai Shek never had that much control.
oh yeah, please note that my only sources are wiki and ohmynews. Ohmynews is not a very credible source, so the idea that Ahn submitted to Japan is purely speculative. I don’t think Koreans like Germans, they just wish they got war compensation the German way.
The title to this Chosun article is hilarious: What Force Will Counter Japan’s Designs on Dokdo?
apparently, Japan doesn’t even have a historical claim on Sakhalin, either. I just thought they did, since they moved Koreans there for labor. Turns out, the Koreans were brought there to work in coal mines. Japan’s stake in Sakhalin is much like its stake in Dokdo, and the Chinese islands. NO historical precedence, and only recent 20th or 19th century occupations by force or economical means. That gives them rightful ownership?
There is not much on the Japan survey today in Korean news. I wonder if that means Korea is regretting making such a big deal out of it in the first place? Will this be another example Korea sticking her foot in her mouth before thinking about the consequences?
If the Korean strategy is to pretend that the area around Dokdo/Takeshima is undisputed, then wouldn’t it have been better for Korea to have proposed a joint survey with Japan or simply given Japan permission for the survey? Capturing one or two Japanese survey ships is certainly going to highlight the fact that it is disputed territory.
By the way, according to Mainichi Daily News, Korea has conducted three similar surveys in the disputed area in the last three years. Besides, as Kimcity2000 mentioned above, Korea proposed in 1998 to use Ulleungdo, not Dokdo, as the standard for determining its Exclusive Economic Zone. See the following Korean-language article:
http://japanese.donga.com/srv/.....6041520258
This seems to be another case of emotion overruling logic in the Korean brain.
Seem more like a typical attempt by the Japanese to ratchet up tensions in the region as a means to score brownie points at home or to drag Korea to the ICJ.
Let them survey the region. Send in half the navy and cosely ‘escort’ the Japanese every step in the way. Have a few squradrons of fighters come in low-level for added effect. This could be a good day to conduct some navy excercises for Korea.
See how well the Japanese can read their ’survey’ when it’s soaked with sweat….
Frogmouth,
If Japan’s survey is an attempt to ratchet up the tension, then I guess that means Korea has being trying to ratchet up the tension for the past three years since she has conducted similar surveys in the disputed area.
As for Japan dragging Korea to the International Court of Justice (ICJ), so what? What does Korea have to fear? Isn’t her claim on Dokdo/Takeshima supposedly ironclad?
When if comes to Dokdo/Takeshima, Korean historians seem to be either shameless liars or such cowards that they remain silent for fear of being labeled traitors. When is someone going to stand up and tell the truth? Where are the Ed Murrows in Korea? Koreans should be ashamed of their historians, their reporters, and their politicians.
there’s a Japanese judge in ICJ right now. One. I don’t know if he’ll handle the case. But South Korea has none. Gerry, got anything to say about China’s claim on the islands near Taiwan? Mr. Bevers, do you read Japanese? If not, isn’t your investigation of the Japanese side limited? It seems you read Korean and English well.
Wjk,
Has there been a Japanese judge on the ICJ since 1954, when Japan first offered to let the ICJ decide the issue? No, Korea is not taking the dispute to the ICJ because there is a Japanese judge on the court; she is not taking it there because she knows she will lose.
No, I do not have anything to say on China’s claim on the islands near Taiwan. I no little about it and have even less interest.
No, I do not read Japanese, and neither do many other people, which is why so few people know Japan’s side of the story on the Dokdo/Takeshima dispute. Korean English Web sites dealing with the issue far outnumber the Japanese, which may be why people like Oranckay, Kushibo, and Lovmo have been so easily deceived.
Yes, it would be nice to be able to read Japanese, but it is not necessary since it is Korea that has to prove that it claimed Dokdo/Takeshima before Japan did in 1905. However, everything that I have seen regarding Korea’s claim on Dokdo/Takeshima is based on false assumptions, smoke-and-mirror arguments, and closed-eyed denial.
Is there really freedom of speech in South Korea? Even North Korea has dissenters, but where are the voices of dissent in Korea when it comes to Dokdo/Takeshima? Even if there were not so many holes in the Korean argument, I would think that there would be, at least, one or two Korean historians or reporters saying Japan’s claims have merit, but I have not heard of any? Is it because the dissenters would be fired from their jobs or driven into exile in a foreign country? Is the propaganda in the Korean education system so thorough that Koreans cannot reason for themselves with it comes to Dokdo/Takeshima? Is lying considered meritorious when it is viewed as promoting Korean nationalism?
Freedom of speak in Korea will never be truly free until Koreans feel comfortable enough to stand up and say, “Dokdo belongs to Japan.”
Gerry, Japan knows full well there isn’t a snowball’s chance in Hell Korea will ever give up these rocks for God. The sooner they (and you) realize this then they can move forward. Japan is in serious denial about the drastic shift in power occurring in Northeast Asia over the last decades and it’s about time she was taught a lesson.
I’ve read the Japanese claims to Dokdo and they are weak as water. Japan says they own the islands because of the Shimane Prefecture Inclusion however this document was declared dead. History teaches us it was illegal to begin with.
Japan also tries to claim there was confusion about which islands were being referred to in agreements where they declared Songdo (Dokdo) Chosun territory but any study of maps of this time show this to be false.
Here is the Japanese link.
http://www.geocities.jp/tanaka.....sando.html
Japanese also claim that Korea’s reference to Usando is in fact the tiny isle of Jukdo next to Ulleungdo but there are maps that show both Usando and Jukdo.
Click the link to access page. Click 지도자료 below the Korean flag and then click 해동여지도중 강원도부분
http://www.cybertokdo.com/new-.....10-01.html
It amounts to this. If I have a contract saying that Mr Smith gave me his car and I have the car in my driveway why should I give it back just because one day he comes to the realization the car is suddenly worth something?
Here’s the car registration and ownership.
http://www.tokdo.co.kr/english/tokdo_33.htm
Scroll down, third doc.
Forget about Dokdo, Gerry it’s a done deal. You’ll sleep better…….
in defense of Gerry, South Korea has limited freedom of speech. Many HanNara supporters say KBS news is government propaganda, but this is exactly how KBS news was used when HanNara’s ancestral parties were in charge of the Presidential office. I think I read here or somewhere linked that South Korea shuts down web sites that has a degree of content that is considered Very Pro Japanese. I don’t know what the standard or the limit is, until you get shut down, but apparently, didn’t the South Korean government shut down all South Korean websites showing the video of Sun Il Kim’s execution in Iraq? I’m sure they did. So, Gerry, even if there was a South Korean who wanted to say Dokdo was Japanese land, his work would never show up on the internet, and there would be so few of them. He’d be a real oddball.
Well, I think the South Koreans are reluctant to go to ICJ, because they got screwed in the San Francisco treaty after World War II. That’s my personal opinion.
The issue is not who is suppose to be there, but who is there now. Korea has posted guards on that island. So it is theirs. You can go back as far as history, but if we all do that then California would go back to Mexico.
Sun Il Kim has nothing to do with Japan, but I just put that in to prove that there is limited freedom of speech in South Korea. Historically, the South Koreans preferred to believe MBC tv news because it was privately owned. But, on various occaions, the ruling government would wise up and even manipulate news broadcasted by MBC, to paint a picture it wanted to be painted. They do that on and off, while KBS will steadily voice the viewpoint of the ruling party. It’s just quite funny when South Koreans will watch KBS news, and get all angered up, saying KBS is government propaganda, when they would watch it 20 years ago, and say everything that KBS is saying is the way it really is. I witnessed that myself with my grandparents, who are more in line with Han Nara’s political stance.
This is just another example of Japan’s passive agressive nature. Face it, there is no real justification for Japan to do this so-called maritime survey. Japan is once again stirring a pot that doesn’t need stirring. But again these are the Japanese, they can’t help themselves. Irritating their neighbours is done out of sport not necessity. Japan has really turned childish under the current government administration.
HansaraminVancouver,
Korea has done at least three similar surveys in the area in the past three years, so has Korea been more aggressive and childish than Japan?
Frogmouth,
None of the Korean maps you link to show any island named “Dokdo. Moveover, the islands they do show are right next to Ulleungdo. The map you linked to above is too small for me to read, but the islands, again, appear to be right next to Ulleungdo. Why do Korean maps show Usando right next to Ulleungdo instead of 92 kilometers away? Because they were referring to present-day Dokdo/Takeshima.
Korean documents and maps have said and shown that Ulleungdo and Usando were the same island, so if the map above lists Ulleungdo, Usando, and Jukdo all right next to each other, then the mapmaker obviously confused Usando as being another island next to Ulleungdo instead of just another name for Ulleungdo. Remember that even Lee Gyu-won had to clear up the confusion for King Kojong in 1882.
As for the Japanese document, it says that 松島 (Songdo: “Pine Island”) is an island next to 竹島 (Jukdo: “Bamboo Island”), which was the name the Japanese were using to refer to Ulleungdo at the time. If 松島 (Songdo) had been referring to present-day Dokdo/Takeshima, then they would not have said that it was next to Ulleungdo. They would have most likely given its location with a bearing and a distance.
Dokdo/Takeshima was a barren, rock island with no bamboo and no pine trees on it. Ulleungdo and Jukdo, on the other hand, did have bamboo and pine trees. In spite of Japanese maps referring to Dokdo/Takeshima as both “Bamboo Island” and “Pine Island” over the centuries, it seems obvious from the names that the mapmakers were confusing Ulluengdo and the island just four kilometers off its shore with present-day Dokdo/Takeshima.
Up until the Japanese sent inspectors to Korea in 1869, it appears that the Japanese were just as confused as the Koreans were in regard to Ulleungdo and Jukdo, the small island just four kilometers off the coast of Ulluengdo. The 1870 Japanese document simply confirmed for the Japanese that there was a small island just off the coast of Ulleungdo, and that Ulleungdo and that small island belonged to Korea. The document was not referring to present-day Dokdo/Takeshima.
The confusion in regard to Ulleungdo, Jukdo (the small Korean island just off the coast of Ulleungdo), and present-day Dokdo/Takeshima was pretty cleared up for the Japanese, when they sent a ship to survey Ulluengdo in 1880. The Japanese discovered that 松島(Bamboo Island) was actually just a few rocky islets (Dokdo/Takeshima) on the way to Ulleungdo. After they reached Ulleungdo, which they had been calling 竹島 (Bamboo Island), they decided to rename Ulleungdo “Pine Island,” and call present-day Dokdo/Takeshima “Liancourt Rocks,” which was more appropriate since, afterall, it was just a bunch of rocks.
Correction to my post above.
Instead of “Because they were referring to present-day Dokdo/Takeshima,” it should read, “Because they were NOT referring to present-day Dokdo/Takeshima.
HansaraminVancouver,
You are right. These stupid waenoms just want trouble. After 50 years of Korean occupation of Dokdo, why suddenly claim that it is their island? Why now? WTF!
Waking up from fifty years of group amnesia, the Japanese felt the sudden need to expand their territory? WTF!
Now they are playing power game with Koreans. Why? They want a war? China will give them war soon enough. Do they want to fight Koreans first before taking on the Chinese? WTF!
Time for all Korean fighting ships to move to Dokdo area. Load all weapons available. Shoot to kill anything Japanese.
Stupid people will die. Tora, Tora, and Tora!
Baduk, didn’t you used to espouse a more pro-Japan, anti-China orientation for Korea?
Baduk, Baduk, Baduk…. Japan is sending maybe one boat for a survey, just like Korea has done several times in the same area, the overlapping EEZs the two countries claim. The zones are always being disputed — China and Japan are arguing about the same thing. It’s an economic issue, and Korea is going over the top as usual.
Baduk: I’m responding to two comments on two posts.
…
First, your tone. You sound a little schitzo.
Second, that’s flawed logic. Koreans on message boards may want war, that doesn’t mean the Chinese and the Japanese want war. I lurk on some 2ch boards and I can count on one hand the number of people I’ve seen call for violence against Korea or China. Rather, it’s mockery and scorn, which at worst manifests itself as “These chinks are crazy!”
Japanese policymakers want Korea and China to calm down and yet refuse to bribe them for it. Just because neighbors foam at the mouth doesn’t mean you should give them an extra corner of your backyard. Indeed, the animosity makes them want to maintain their long-standing territorial claims on both Takeshima and the Senkakus. No country will ever sacrifice this just because demonstrators are burning effigies in the streets.
In this case, I believe that the Koizumi administration is trying to provoke Korea in a way that will make Seoul act irrationally and thus gain 1.) political capital at home and 2.) international support (i.e. show how irrational both South Korea and China are). Having said that, a large majority of Japanese support Koizumi in domestic politics and economics, but a majority also think 1.) he should not visit Yasukuni, and 2.) he provokes Korea and China unnecessarily.
Yes, I am very schizo about Dokdo issue.
1) For a long-term goal, Korea should be close to Japan. If Korea gets eaten up by Japan, Korea may be able to maintain the present standard of living. But if Korea gets eaten up by China, the Chinese will take everything valuable out of Korea and make her into a big concentration camp like NK is.
2) However, I hate Koizumi pushing the envelope like this. Actually, Japan should be sucking up to Korea now and working toward forming a stronger alliance, to fight off China together. In stead of doing that, this monkey is f***ing with Korea. I feel like punching this joker on the face. Why make trouble for nothing?
Koreans are volatile people including myself. Koreans may say “F***! Just shoot the torpedo. Que sera, sera!” And, if Japan retaliate, Korea will be pushed into making stronger ties with China. Koi f***ing monkey! Is this what he wants?
Gerry at the time of the 1870 document was issued ALL Japanese maps show Dokdo as 松島. Period.
Do you want me to post the maps again?
Japanese maps show Dokdo as Songdo up until well in the 1900’s until after the islands were stolen.
You’ve been saying for the longest time that Usando is the tiny island of Jukdo next to Ulleungdo but here we have a Korean map that shows both isles. Pretty much destroys your theory I’d say.
This is what Japan’s been doing for years. The World Cup, the year of Japan-Korea friendship, dropping visa requirements, etc etc.
See this wiki article for more: “Korea is geographically close, yet emotionally distant from Japan.” That’s the biggest problem to the current relationship: Seoul is willing to believe the worst about Japan.
It’s a two-way street. If Korea stops the finger-chopping wackiness and realizes that the real enemies are to the north and west, things just might improve.
It was interesting that Dok-do stamps were released
at the exact same time that President Roh is due to appear in court over corruption charges. Recently critics accuse the government of not helping families of South Koreans who have been kidnapped by North. Isn’t it obvious that the Korean government is using the Dok-do flap to take media attention off of other important problem? People in Korea will definately take an interest on a “Korean vs. Japanese” issue, and more people would be inclined to follow this story. A convenient smokescreen. They routinely provokes these kind of issues when they are under scrutiny from the media.
My favorite Japanese excuse is, “It was not us, it was the Korean and Taiwanese conscripts!”
I worry that Koreans might wake up someday and realize they’ve been sold down the river by leftists and other scum who have (tried) to ruin the alliance with the US while throwing away closer ties with Japan.
Such things may come in very handy depending on how things develop with North Korea and China in the future, and the laughable ‘balancer’ role will be long forgotten as China makes NK into another Tibet, despite the protestations of their vassals, the SKers.
. . . and then THIS: Two Koreas May Discuss Japan’s Dokdo Incursion
This is why I will be so glad to see this Uridang trash gone. I suppose the two Koreas will unite and fight evil Japan. This is so sad and is probably going to make a popular Korean movie soon.
Curzon,
Pray tell how this “measurement around Dokdo” help the relation between Korea and Japan? Is this the way to improve the friendship between two countries?
As Stallon said in the movie, “First Blood”, they drew the first blood. I mean the Japanese are starting this war.
May Koizumi and the waenom rightwingers rot in Hell!
Correction:
Change “Koreans look at a map of Usando and automatically call it Ulleungdo, even when it is draw right next to Ulleungdo” to
“Koreans look at a map of Usando and automatically call it Ulleungdo, even when it is draw right next to “Dokdo.”
Marmot,
What happened to my post, just before my correction? It said it was being moderated, but not it is not there? What’s going on?
Even my correction is wrong. It should be ““Koreans look at a map of Usando and automatically call it Dokdo, even when it is draw right next to “Ulleungdo.”
I spent a long time on my previous post, Marmot, please try to find it for me.
Gerry Bevers wrote:
I spent a long time on my previous post, Marmot, please try to find it for me.
Yeah, if his posts don’t show up, the Black Dragon Society won’t send him his checks.
Baduk: As I said, Japanese policymakers want Korea to calm down but will not bribe them for it — and I believe they have now decided to needle Seoul to make Roh’s crew act irrationally and thus gain Tokyo international support when Korea plays the usual role of hysterical teenager.
Certainly the news stories get more hilarious by the day: http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....80013.html
Oh smack! Nothing to end 55 years of war between North and South Korea like a Japanese boat entering waters near a rock that Korea occupied and Japan claims.
At least the GNP has realized that taking Tokyo’s bait does not work to the ROK’s advantage. Not. one. bit.
The best thing Korea could do about this would be to send a dozen college kids to Dokto to moon the boat when it gets close.
Other stories:
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....70031.html
Strategy? The current regime in Seoul wouldn’t know strategy if it hit them in the face. Who would have thought: some are starting to realize that sulking and bitching wouldn’t be an effective policy!
How will Korea ever counter those crafty Nips!
Curzon,
Korea has been raped by Japan for thirty five years. Please note that fact!
“Baduk: As I said, Japanese policymakers want Korea to calm down but will not bribe them for it”-Curzon
They say to calm down but yet sending their ship near Dokdo. WTF! Calm down? Shove it to your what!
Korea has been raped by Japan for thirty five years. Never again! Fuck ‘em. Kill ‘em. Korea will never be raped again! Koreans will rather die than to kneel to these waenoms.
Gerry the only thing I can agree with you on this one is that Korean maps are too inconclusive or inaccurate to ascertain which island is which so why even bother to cite them as proof of anything?
Of course Koreans will believe what they want to and maybe they’re right but the fact is we will never know what these amateur cartographers were referring to when they haplessly scrawled some of these maps.
However, the Koreans have presented documents (mostly Japanese) that show two things. One is Japan knew Korea was using the isles and another shows possession of these islands was given to Chosun. So their terra nullius claim is obviously a sham. At any rate, agreements after WWII effective killed Japans ‘jurisdiction’ over Liancourt Rocks anyway.
These evidence Korea has shown carries far more weight. The Japanese say “Dokdo is ours because we took it 1905″ Koreans say “Dokdo is ours because the Japanese said so in this official document” and then can back it up with indisputably authentic papers and maps that clarify what maps the Japanese were referring to.
I can’t say I approve of the way Korea ‘acquired’ Dokdo but they own the islands now and in my opinion Japan hasn’t put forth a strong enough case to warrant booting out the Koreans.
Baduk,
When you say, “Kill ‘em (waenom),” who do you mean? Any Japanese? Japanese politicians? Japanese politicians who pay respects at Yasukuni? The Japanese who participated in the occupation of Korea? A little late, since most of them are dead.
How would you feel if an angry American called Koreans “gooks”? It’s okay to get angry, disagree, and yell about what Japan did to Korea, but let’s avoid epithets.
Frogmouth,
The 1870 Japanese document says that 松島 (Songdo: “Pine Island”) was next to 竹島 (Jukdo: “Bamboo Island”), which is what the Japanese were calling Ulleungdo at the time. The document also says that the island had not yet been mentioned in Japanese records, which is another clue that tells us the document was not talking about Dokdo/Takeshima, since Dokdo/Takeshima had been mentioned before.
You can link to your maps again if you want, Frogmouth, but that will not change the fact that the 1870 document was talking about an island next to Ulleungdo, not about Dokdo/Takeshima.
The Japanese were confused about 松島 (Pine Island), which is why they sent officials to Korea in 1869 to try to clear up the confusion. Maybe that is why the following 1878 Japanese map shows two islands named “松島” (Pine Island).
http://dokdomuseum.go.kr/images/full01_092.jpg
Also, the following 1875 Japanese army map shows 松島 (Pine Island) right where Dokdo/Takeshima should be, but is drawn to look a lot like Ulleungdo.
http://dokdomuseum.go.kr/exh/f.....item65.jpg
The Japanese were still confused in 1880, which is why they sent a ship to survey Ulleungdo. They discovered that 松島 (Pine Island) was a group of rocky islets (Dokdo/Takeshima) on the way to Ulleungdo, and that 竹島 (Bamboo Island), which is what they calling Ulleungdo at the time, was actually the island they used to call 松島 (Pine Island). Therefore, they renamed Ulleungdo as 松島 (Pine Island) and renamed Dokdo/Takeshima as Liancourt Rocks, which is the name Western mapmakers were using at the time. Here is a 1887 Japanese naval map labeled with the new names:
http://dokdomuseum.go.kr/images/full01_082.jpg
If Japanese mapmakers were still referring to Dokdo/Takeshima as 松島 (Pine Island) after 1880, then they were behind the times.
As for Usando, old Korean documents say that Ulleungdo and Usan-guk were the same island, and there is even a Korean map that show them as one island. Later Korean maps separated Usando from Ulleungdo, but the two islands were still drawn next to each other. Sometimes Usando is drawn east of Ulleungdo and sometimes it is shown west, but they are almost always drawn next to each other.
When Koreans see Usando on a map, they automatically say it is “Dokdo,” even though the island is draw right next to Ulleungdo, and even though no Korean historical document has ever said that Usando was Dokdo/Takeshima. Such Koreans are either blind nationalists or bold-faced liars.
Look at the following maps, Frogmouth. They all place Usando just off shore of Ulleungdo, the very place that the Korean island of Jukdo is today. How can you look at the following maps and say that they are referring to Dokdo/Takeshima, which is 92 kilometers southwest of Ulleungdo.
Late 18th Century Korean Map
http://ullungdo.com/map/image/5.jpg
Late 18th Century Korean Map
http://ullungdo.com/map/image/6.jpg
Early 19th Century Korean Map
http://ullungdo.com/map/image/7.jpg
Early 19th Century Korean Map
http://ullungdo.com/map/image/8.jpg
19th Century Korean Map
http://ullungdo.com/map/image/9.jpg
19th Century Korean Map
http://ullungdo.com/map/image/10.jpg
1899 Korean Map (This map even has coordinates.)
http://ullungdo.com/map/image/12.jpg
Also, look at pages 47, 48, 53, and 55 of the following PDF file.
http://kgeography.or.kr/publis...../04/02.PDF
How can you, Frogmouth, and others look at those maps and still insist that Usando (于山島) is present-day Dokdo/Takeshima? It goes against all reason.
Frogmouth, no agreements after World War II ended Japan’s jurisdiction over Dokdo/Takeshima. Korea illegally occupied the islands in the 1950s and continues to do so today.
———–
This is my third time to post this. Something is screwed up with your blog, Marmot.
Nothing is screwed up–when you post five links or more, the comment must be approved first. Part of the blog’s anti-spam protection.
Thanks for explaining that, Robert.
Gerry, it’s always been said “Garbage in garbage out” The maps you’ve posted again prove nothing. You can’t prove anything by posting maps Japanese or Korean that are known to be inaccurate. I don’t really care what Korean nationalist say about Dokdo I’m not Korean.
Yes, Songdo is a neighbouring island to Ulleungdo in fact it has been proven to be visible on a clear day. The part on the document says there are no written records this could mean between the two parties. Please show me an authentic, accurate Japanese document/msp that shows any other island to be Songdo besides Dokdo. You haven’t and you can’t.
The Japanese had long since established (for about a hundred years in fact) which island was Songdo before the 1870 document with perfect attention to detail.
Follow the links to Berkley University and do searches under these maps
davidrumsey.com/japan
Map 1. Nakakuba Sekisui 1783. Again here is another map that shows Dokdo and Ulluengdo in perfect location a hundred years before giving the islands away.
Map 2. Matsumoto Yasuoki 1835. Shows Songdo in correct location.
Map 3. Matsumura Kyube 1837. Show both Jukdo and Songdo correctly.
Map 4. Kikuchi Toramatsu 1843. Again Songdo is accurate.
Map 5. Seika Shujin 1847 Songdo accurately placed
These maps were printed after the 1870 document.
Map 6. Uchida Shinsai 1872 This map shows both Ullengdo and Songdo shows both the same color as mainland Chosun.
Map 7. Hirosawa Nobufusa 1877 Songdo is Dokdo
Map 8. Tanaka Kazutomo 1879 Songdo is Dokdo
Map 9 Shimizu Akira. 1885 This map still shows Songdo as Dokdo 15 years after the document.
So your lame-duck defense is the Japanese were confused about which island was Songdo…. Listen, I’ve posted over a dozen maps, most predate the 1870 document that are both authentic and accurate to prove my point that Songdo is in fact Dokdo so I’m sorry Gerry but you are dead wrong.
I don’t buy it one bit. But hey, if the Japanese were so stupid as to give away territory before confirming exactly what they were talking about I would say that falls under the age old legal term know as the “tough shit” act.
Frogmouth,
Is there any pre-1905 Korean map that you will accept as accurate? If not, then what are you using to claim that Usan-do is present-day Dokdo/Takeshima? Korean documents? No pre-1905 Korean document claims that Usando or any other Korean island is present-day Dokdo/Takeshima.
What problem do you have with the 1899 Korean map that places Usan-do right next to Ulleungdo, and even shows lines of latitude and longitude? Moreover, the book in which it is printed says that the adminstrative district of Ulleung County extended east to a longitude of 130 degrees 35 minutes. As you know by now, that longitude excludes present-day Dokdo/Takeshima, which is farther east at a longitude of 131 degrees, 55 minutes. Look at the 1899 Korean map I am referring to. Notice that the Chinese characters for Usan “于山” are printed right next to a small island just off the coast of Ulleungdo. That island is located right where present-day “Jukdo” is. How can you dismiss that?
http://ullungdo.com/map/image/12.jpg
The 1970 Japanese document say that 松島(Songdo) was a neighboring island of Ulleungdo. An island four kilometers off the coast of Ulleungdo is considered a “neighboring island,” not an island beyond the horizon, 92 kilometers away. Ulleungdo has about 50 some-odd clear days a year, and I have read that Dokdo/Takeshima can only be seen from one of Ulleungdo’s peaks only on certain clear days during certain times of the year when the wind is blowing in a certain direction. An island with such ghostly appearances is not considered a neighboring island.
By the way, one of my former students works for a travel agency that specializes in trips to Ulleungdo. When I asked her if Dokdo could be seen from Ulleungdo, she said, “No,” and added that they had to sail about twenty to thirty kilometers closer to Dokdo before it could be seen.
I have already show you a Japanese map where Ulleungdo is labeled as 松島 (Songdo) and Dokdo/Takeshima is labeled as “Liancourt Rocks.” It was the following 1887 Japanese naval map:
http://dokdomuseum.go.kr/images/full01_082.jpg
The 1870 Japanese document does not “give away” Dokdo/Takeshima. It was a document that the Japanese officials sent to the Japanese Foriegn Ministry to tell them of the results of their investigation of Ulleungdo. The document said that 松島 (Songdo) was a neighboring island of Ulleungdo and was Korean territory. It also said that the island had not yet been mentioned in Japanese records. That means that the island was a different 松島 (Songdo) from that mentioned in all the pre-1870 maps you listed above since the Japanese already knew about the “Songdo” listed on those maps. Remember that in 1882, Lee Gyu-won, the inspector that King Kojong sent to inspect Ulleungdo, also referred to the island just off the coast of Ulleungdo as 松竹島(Songjukdo). Korea was using the same Chinese characters for the small island just off the coast of Ulleungdo that Japan was using to refer to Dokdo/Takeshima. That is most likely what caused the confusion.
In 1880, Japan sent a ship to further clear up the confusion. That is the year that Japan finally got the mess sorted out, and they renamed Ulleungdo as 松島 (Songdo) and started calling present-day Dokdo/Takeshima “Liancourt Rocks,” which was a more appropriate name since the rocky islets has no pine trees on it or any other kind of tree.
Finally, if Japan had really given Dokdo/Takeshima to Korea in 1870, why didn’t Korea acknowledge that gift? Lee Gyu-won did not say anything about Dokdo/Takeshima in the report of his inspection to Ulleungdo in 1882, and the 1899 Korea text with a detailed map that I mentioned also did not mention it. In fact, the 1899 text said that Ulleungdo’s administrative boundary extended only to 130 degrees, 35 minutes. If Dokdo/Takeshima was a neighboring island of Ulleungdo, why did the 1899 Korean text exclude it from Ulleungdo’s administrative district? Can you answer that question, Frogmouth?
Gerry for the last time the 1899 maps is way off in regard to degrees Ulleungdo is about a whole degree west of where it should be. How can you use this map for defining Chosun boundaries when you can tell it’s way off at a glance?
Dokdo is a neighbouring island and is visible from Ulleundo. This has been said by both Japanese and Koreans numerous time during history and I’ve seen pictures and historical docs to prove it. The fate of Dokdo doesn’t rest on Gerrybeaver’s definition of the word neighbour.
The 1870 document confirms the fact that an island known by the name of Songdo for over a hundred years by Japanese is Chosun Territory. You silly theory that Japan developed geographic amnesia doesn’t work.
The document says there are no written records. It does not say Japanese records. This could mean Korean or joint records.
It doesn’t change the fact I’ve proven Songdo is Dokdo. If you want to re-write history publish a science fiction book or invent a time machine. Better yet post a map of reasonable accuracy that predates the document that shows Songdo as anything other than Dokdo. The map you posted shows Liancourt to be about ten times the size of Ulluengdo and obviously is of too poor quality to make any definitive judgemnets regarding Japan’s stance on Dokdo.
The fact is, Japan frequently mapped the neighbouring island of Jukdo. Sometimes you can see Ulleungdo marked with 2 Jukdos. This map is two years after the document and shows clearly Ulleungdo and Dokdo the same colour as the Korean mainland. Also you will see two Jukdo islands mentioned.
http://www.geocities.com/mlovmo/page12.html
Leekyuwon said the island was 20~30ri away. Too far to be one of the small islands you are talking about considering the known definition of a ri at the time. Leekyuwon did nothing to clarify which island was which. Didn’t we agree his pre-inspection information