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	<title>Comments on: Itaewon merchants to push neighborhood development plan</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Wed,  3 Dec 2008 03:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: bulgasari</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/#comment-32764</link>
		<dc:creator>bulgasari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2680#comment-32764</guid>
		<description>The redevelopment that Kushibo was talking about is the Hannam New Town - I found a photo of a plan &lt;a href="http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hannamnewtownplan0pp.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, and an 'advertisement ' photo &lt;a href="http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hannamnewtownphotoofseoul4pb.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, though how much these will reflect what eventually gets built, I've no idea.  Seoul City is planning to raze a total of 24 square km of the older areas of Seoul (mostly within its pre-1963 boundaries)  to make way for these new towns.

By the way, I first thought of Dresden (another post-war city) when I first arrived here and saw all the apartment blocks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The redevelopment that Kushibo was talking about is the Hannam New Town - I found a photo of a plan <a href="http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hannamnewtownplan0pp.jpg" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and an &#8216;advertisement &#8216; photo <a href="http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hannamnewtownphotoofseoul4pb.jpg" rel="nofollow">here</a>, though how much these will reflect what eventually gets built, I&#8217;ve no idea.  Seoul City is planning to raze a total of 24 square km of the older areas of Seoul (mostly within its pre-1963 boundaries)  to make way for these new towns.</p>
<p>By the way, I first thought of Dresden (another post-war city) when I first arrived here and saw all the apartment blocks.</p>
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		<title>By: R. Elgin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/#comment-32579</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Elgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Apr 2006 06:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2680#comment-32579</guid>
		<description>Sewing, I'm refering to the pandemic of stickers on private and public property plus street banners from both realtors and internet and cable companies like HBC and Powercom.  It used to be Thrunet and Hanaro were doing it but they have reduced their advertising to taped-up paper, which is everywhere.

There is nothing interesting about that unless one likes trash.  You should try another city other than Seoul with some sense of aesthetics like Athens, Prague or Pest and compare to understand what I'm talking about (KAL flies to Prague now!).  Even Tokyo is cleaner than most any place in Seoul and their streets have a more refined sense of style, albeit Japanese.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sewing, I&#8217;m refering to the pandemic of stickers on private and public property plus street banners from both realtors and internet and cable companies like HBC and Powercom.  It used to be Thrunet and Hanaro were doing it but they have reduced their advertising to taped-up paper, which is everywhere.</p>
<p>There is nothing interesting about that unless one likes trash.  You should try another city other than Seoul with some sense of aesthetics like Athens, Prague or Pest and compare to understand what I&#8217;m talking about (KAL flies to Prague now!).  Even Tokyo is cleaner than most any place in Seoul and their streets have a more refined sense of style, albeit Japanese.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/#comment-32557</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 19:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2680#comment-32557</guid>
		<description>R. Elgin:

I dunno, FWIW, all the advertising and sidewalk life everywhere is part of what gives the city (and Daegu too, where I spend a lot of time) their appeal to me.  I know it goes against all aesthetic and good urban design principles, but without all that, these cities would be just that much more boring to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R. Elgin:</p>
<p>I dunno, FWIW, all the advertising and sidewalk life everywhere is part of what gives the city (and Daegu too, where I spend a lot of time) their appeal to me.  I know it goes against all aesthetic and good urban design principles, but without all that, these cities would be just that much more boring to me.</p>
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		<title>By: dda</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/#comment-32556</link>
		<dc:creator>dda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 19:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2680#comment-32556</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;very nice apartment buildings&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Bzzzert! Sorry, those two pairs of words don't go together. Whatever they may look like inside, they're butt-ugly outside, and the view you get from such an appartment is in 99% of cases appalling. And of course they don't help with the overcrowding. People should stop thinking in terms of space wasted. There's lots of space available – outside Seoul...
&lt;blockquote&gt;space not occupied by the buildings themselves generally seems to be paved over for parking&lt;/blockquote&gt;
and
&lt;blockquote&gt;In any case it’s exasperating that so much space has to be wasted for parking in a city that is clearly much too dense for so many cars&lt;/blockquote&gt;
... and too many people too...

Stack up vertically 10,000 people in an area that could/should not have more than a few hundreds and you have a huge parking problem, with 1.5  cars per household.

OTOH, &lt;a rel="nofollow" href="http://sungnyemun.org/UseOfSpace/"&gt;THIS&lt;/a&gt; is a proper use of space...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>very nice apartment buildings</p></blockquote>
<p>Bzzzert! Sorry, those two pairs of words don&#8217;t go together. Whatever they may look like inside, they&#8217;re butt-ugly outside, and the view you get from such an appartment is in 99% of cases appalling. And of course they don&#8217;t help with the overcrowding. People should stop thinking in terms of space wasted. There&#8217;s lots of space available – outside Seoul&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>space not occupied by the buildings themselves generally seems to be paved over for parking</p></blockquote>
<p>and</p>
<blockquote><p>In any case it’s exasperating that so much space has to be wasted for parking in a city that is clearly much too dense for so many cars</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230; and too many people too&#8230;</p>
<p>Stack up vertically 10,000 people in an area that could/should not have more than a few hundreds and you have a huge parking problem, with 1.5  cars per household.</p>
<p>OTOH, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://sungnyemun.org/UseOfSpace/">THIS</a> is a proper use of space&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: R. Elgin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/#comment-32526</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Elgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 03:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2680#comment-32526</guid>
		<description>I would have to agree with "jyce" in regards to the pure ugliness of Seoul and many parts of Korea.  Even the archtectural design professors in Korea are not happy about, from what I've read.  I think some sort of aesthetics needs to be forced on developers since this would improve the country and its quality of life (well-being maybe!). Such could also cut down on the amount of re-development which is performed for speculative purposes only.  I have little faith in the integrety of what is now in place for regulating such though -- their lack of taste and good judgement is profound.  These people seem stuck in the 60s and 70s in terms of mentality (building is good, not building is bad).  I would rather recruit one planner from a university with design and environmental experience and give him carte blanche for twenty years.  That would be the only way to really break the cycle of greed, ugliness and stupidity. 

New laws on public advertising would help tremendously as well.  A ban on banners, loan-shark stickers, internet provider advertisements, etc.  would go a long way in cleaning up the city.

Reclaiming sidewalk space should be enforced.  In Athens (Greece), the city fines businesses that set up displays and tables outside of their business.  They let restaurants put out tables but also impose a fee, which goes into running the city.  Our current presidential-wanna-be mayor built a stream (ditch) in the city but does not have the smarts to keep the trash out of it or to clean up anything.  More is the pity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have to agree with &#8220;jyce&#8221; in regards to the pure ugliness of Seoul and many parts of Korea.  Even the archtectural design professors in Korea are not happy about, from what I&#8217;ve read.  I think some sort of aesthetics needs to be forced on developers since this would improve the country and its quality of life (well-being maybe!). Such could also cut down on the amount of re-development which is performed for speculative purposes only.  I have little faith in the integrety of what is now in place for regulating such though &#8212; their lack of taste and good judgement is profound.  These people seem stuck in the 60s and 70s in terms of mentality (building is good, not building is bad).  I would rather recruit one planner from a university with design and environmental experience and give him carte blanche for twenty years.  That would be the only way to really break the cycle of greed, ugliness and stupidity. </p>
<p>New laws on public advertising would help tremendously as well.  A ban on banners, loan-shark stickers, internet provider advertisements, etc.  would go a long way in cleaning up the city.</p>
<p>Reclaiming sidewalk space should be enforced.  In Athens (Greece), the city fines businesses that set up displays and tables outside of their business.  They let restaurants put out tables but also impose a fee, which goes into running the city.  Our current presidential-wanna-be mayor built a stream (ditch) in the city but does not have the smarts to keep the trash out of it or to clean up anything.  More is the pity.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/#comment-32519</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 17:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2680#comment-32519</guid>
		<description>Well, we have to distinguish between exteriors and interiors here.  Yes, from the outside, most of these complexes are nothing to shake a stick at.  But most modern complexes (especially those built in about the last 10 years or so) are very nice inside.

Regarding the parking, why aren't there more underground parkades in these complexes?  It would seem to be a simple space-saving solution&#8212;a few buildings have them&#8212;and I don't know of any issue with soil conditions in most parts of Seoul or elsewhere that would prevent the construction of underground parkades....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we have to distinguish between exteriors and interiors here.  Yes, from the outside, most of these complexes are nothing to shake a stick at.  But most modern complexes (especially those built in about the last 10 years or so) are very nice inside.</p>
<p>Regarding the parking, why aren&#8217;t there more underground parkades in these complexes?  It would seem to be a simple space-saving solution&mdash;a few buildings have them&mdash;and I don&#8217;t know of any issue with soil conditions in most parts of Seoul or elsewhere that would prevent the construction of underground parkades&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: jyce</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/#comment-32516</link>
		<dc:creator>jyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 16:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2680#comment-32516</guid>
		<description>All the space is paved over for parking due to a legal requirement that every last apartment come with its own free parking space. I have various (conspiracy) theories as to why this is the case: Seoul is a postwar city and all postwar cities are built for cars, the large numbers of Koreans that have lived in Los Angeles and elsewhere in California, and perhaps a covert government subsidy to the domestic automobile industry. In any case it's exasperating that so much space has to be wasted for parking in a city that is clearly much too dense for so many cars.  

I've linked &lt;a href="http://images.google.com/images?q=plattenbau&#38;hl=en&#38;btnG=Search Images" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; a google image search in which you can clearly see how much Korea's apartment complexes resemble those in communist countries. If anything, the apartments in the former East Germany are &lt;i&gt;better&lt;/i&gt; than the ones in Seoul because they do not have the parking lots nor corporate advertisements on the side.

I wish I could be more sanguine about the aesthetic issue, but the jaw dropping ugliness of the built environment in Korea is IMO, a major factor shaping negative perceptions towards the country. People are much more forgiving towards rude people and surly service if they have at least some attractive buildings and monuments to look at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the space is paved over for parking due to a legal requirement that every last apartment come with its own free parking space. I have various (conspiracy) theories as to why this is the case: Seoul is a postwar city and all postwar cities are built for cars, the large numbers of Koreans that have lived in Los Angeles and elsewhere in California, and perhaps a covert government subsidy to the domestic automobile industry. In any case it&#8217;s exasperating that so much space has to be wasted for parking in a city that is clearly much too dense for so many cars.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve linked <a href="http://images.google.com/images?q=plattenbau&amp;hl=en&amp;btnG=Search Images" rel="nofollow">here</a> a google image search in which you can clearly see how much Korea&#8217;s apartment complexes resemble those in communist countries. If anything, the apartments in the former East Germany are <i>better</i> than the ones in Seoul because they do not have the parking lots nor corporate advertisements on the side.</p>
<p>I wish I could be more sanguine about the aesthetic issue, but the jaw dropping ugliness of the built environment in Korea is IMO, a major factor shaping negative perceptions towards the country. People are much more forgiving towards rude people and surly service if they have at least some attractive buildings and monuments to look at.</p>
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		<title>By: gbnhj</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/#comment-32509</link>
		<dc:creator>gbnhj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2680#comment-32509</guid>
		<description>That's right Sewing - online bidding for Pangyo started this week, and according to folks I know who tried, bidders were basically frozen due to internet traffic. Regarding the speculative nature of properties here: seems like, no matter what, the established areas prevail, so investments there seem solid. Even Pangyo thrills, in part, due to its relative geographic location.

As an aside, lots of people think that the older places in Ichon-dong - like 신동아 - are nice. Many have remodelled interiors, plus the neighbors are often quite good. Who knows - Robert might be getting a new hit on his blog from that area starting in May.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s right Sewing - online bidding for Pangyo started this week, and according to folks I know who tried, bidders were basically frozen due to internet traffic. Regarding the speculative nature of properties here: seems like, no matter what, the established areas prevail, so investments there seem solid. Even Pangyo thrills, in part, due to its relative geographic location.</p>
<p>As an aside, lots of people think that the older places in Ichon-dong - like 신동아 - are nice. Many have remodelled interiors, plus the neighbors are often quite good. Who knows - Robert might be getting a new hit on his blog from that area starting in May.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/#comment-32508</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2680#comment-32508</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that'd be the biggest issue I'd have with these complexes: that all the space not occupied by the buildings themselves generally seems to be paved over for parking.  Let alone those of us who don't actually live there, you'd think the people living there would appreciate something more in the way of greenspace!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that&#8217;d be the biggest issue I&#8217;d have with these complexes: that all the space not occupied by the buildings themselves generally seems to be paved over for parking.  Let alone those of us who don&#8217;t actually live there, you&#8217;d think the people living there would appreciate something more in the way of greenspace!</p>
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		<title>By: R. Elgin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/itaewon-merchants-to-push-neighborhood-development-plan/#comment-32506</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Elgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2680#comment-32506</guid>
		<description>I would love to see any decent landscaping of greenspace as well but that is almost unheard of here (quality of life???).  Perhaps they could put large gardens on the rooftops?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love to see any decent landscaping of greenspace as well but that is almost unheard of here (quality of life???).  Perhaps they could put large gardens on the rooftops?</p>
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