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	<title>Comments on: Beware of motorcycles</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri,  5 Sep 2008 19:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ruminations in Korea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/#comment-34036</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruminations in Korea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2679#comment-34036</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Zen And The Art Of Motorcyle Riding In Korea...&lt;/strong&gt;

Heavy metal thunder racin&#8217; with the wind&#8230;
Nearly everyone who has ridden a bike for any length of time will agree.  The highways are crowded with people who drive as if their sole purpose in getting behind the wheel is to avenge every wron...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Zen And The Art Of Motorcyle Riding In Korea&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Heavy metal thunder racin&#8217; with the wind&#8230;<br />
Nearly everyone who has ridden a bike for any length of time will agree.  The highways are crowded with people who drive as if their sole purpose in getting behind the wheel is to avenge every wron&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Fistface</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/#comment-33042</link>
		<dc:creator>Fistface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2679#comment-33042</guid>
		<description>Oops... didn't see all of the comments above.  That guy really got hurt.  Too bad.  Nobody likes to see someone get injured like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops&#8230; didn&#8217;t see all of the comments above.  That guy really got hurt.  Too bad.  Nobody likes to see someone get injured like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Fistface</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/#comment-33040</link>
		<dc:creator>Fistface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2679#comment-33040</guid>
		<description>I am not sure he was going all that fast by the time he slowed.  Not fast enough to die, anyway (definately not if he had a helmet).  It's difficult to tell, given that the video is running at about 8 fps.  

I saw a scooter get nailed last week.  Busted the front of his Forte all to heck, and dented/knocked the SUV bumper clean off.  That guy nailed it pretty good, but was still alive and rolling on the ground in pain.  No blood.

I saw a pizza delivery guy get nailed once, and watched in shock as the driver of the car got out and tried to pull the writhing guy to his feet.  He probably made the injuries worse.

I drive a Daelim 125cc.  I have for over 3 years.  I've seen some crazy things happen, and nearly went down myself a few times.  Scooter driving in Korea is like a sport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure he was going all that fast by the time he slowed.  Not fast enough to die, anyway (definately not if he had a helmet).  It&#8217;s difficult to tell, given that the video is running at about 8 fps.  </p>
<p>I saw a scooter get nailed last week.  Busted the front of his Forte all to heck, and dented/knocked the SUV bumper clean off.  That guy nailed it pretty good, but was still alive and rolling on the ground in pain.  No blood.</p>
<p>I saw a pizza delivery guy get nailed once, and watched in shock as the driver of the car got out and tried to pull the writhing guy to his feet.  He probably made the injuries worse.</p>
<p>I drive a Daelim 125cc.  I have for over 3 years.  I&#8217;ve seen some crazy things happen, and nearly went down myself a few times.  Scooter driving in Korea is like a sport.</p>
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		<title>By: dda</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/#comment-32583</link>
		<dc:creator>dda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Apr 2006 09:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2679#comment-32583</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;God, I hope the guy wasn’t killed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Considering that this asshole may have plowed into a pedestrian or two instead, I consider his possible death a blessing and a life-saver. I almost got hit once by such an idiot in front of 외대 [the guy just plowed into the crossroad, full of pedestrians crossing into or out of the Uni], and have very little patience for two-wheeled assassins.

&lt;blockquote&gt;In fact, he was in the left-turn lane, but turned right, instead&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Which, of course, happens about once a second at any Seoul crossroad, and not just with motorbikes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>God, I hope the guy wasn’t killed.</p></blockquote>
<p>Considering that this asshole may have plowed into a pedestrian or two instead, I consider his possible death a blessing and a life-saver. I almost got hit once by such an idiot in front of 외대 [the guy just plowed into the crossroad, full of pedestrians crossing into or out of the Uni], and have very little patience for two-wheeled assassins.</p>
<blockquote><p>In fact, he was in the left-turn lane, but turned right, instead</p></blockquote>
<p>Which, of course, happens about once a second at any Seoul crossroad, and not just with motorbikes.</p>
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		<title>By: Sperwer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/#comment-32536</link>
		<dc:creator>Sperwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 08:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2679#comment-32536</guid>
		<description>Kushibo:

If as Valor says the light pattern is (1) left turns only, then (2) straight on only, then the SUV Driver is also going to be found at fault.  While common sense tells you that all other things being equal the allocation of fault should be 50/50, it won't be, given the leeway granted moto mogis in Korea and the fact that the cyclist was seriously injured.  Especially if the court sees the tape, they are going to say that but for the SUV's traffic violation, the cyclist would have escaped unscathed, nothwithstanding that he also violated the traffic regulations and equally couldn't have been injured but for his own negligence.  He's luck he just managed to get around the guy turning left with the signal. The SUV driver's case isn't going to be helped by the facts that s/he's not only apparently a foreigner but connected with USFK.  Korean courts are very far from blind when it comes to a decision between fellow tribesmen and the barbarians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kushibo:</p>
<p>If as Valor says the light pattern is (1) left turns only, then (2) straight on only, then the SUV Driver is also going to be found at fault.  While common sense tells you that all other things being equal the allocation of fault should be 50/50, it won&#8217;t be, given the leeway granted moto mogis in Korea and the fact that the cyclist was seriously injured.  Especially if the court sees the tape, they are going to say that but for the SUV&#8217;s traffic violation, the cyclist would have escaped unscathed, nothwithstanding that he also violated the traffic regulations and equally couldn&#8217;t have been injured but for his own negligence.  He&#8217;s luck he just managed to get around the guy turning left with the signal. The SUV driver&#8217;s case isn&#8217;t going to be helped by the facts that s/he&#8217;s not only apparently a foreigner but connected with USFK.  Korean courts are very far from blind when it comes to a decision between fellow tribesmen and the barbarians.</p>
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		<title>By: dogbertt</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/#comment-32533</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbertt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 08:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2679#comment-32533</guid>
		<description>Simultaneous left-turn signals are not at all unusual, at least in Seoul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simultaneous left-turn signals are not at all unusual, at least in Seoul.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/#comment-32507</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2679#comment-32507</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I meant to write that I've had to wait to cross through inordinately &lt;b&gt;long&lt;/b&gt; red phases.

Anyhow, with the all-red, as Valor points out, it does make it that much more tempting for traffic that just got a red to try to cross anyhow (assuming the cross street still has red), or for cross traffic to try to jump the light, so maybe it would all be for naught.

Regarding the phasing of left turns, between Nomad and Valor, it sounds like the intersection's phasing might actually have &lt;i&gt;changed&lt;/i&gt; from standard to non-standard?  That's just whacked.

Anyhoo, more generally, I've seen vehicles on 4 wheels run red lights a couple of times in Korea (when they obviously figured it wouldn't lead to an accident)&#8212;but then, I've even seen it done (by a bus driver, no less) in Vancouver.

Okay, last thought (on a completely different but related note): despite the impression one might get &lt;i&gt;vis a vis&lt;/i&gt; a complete lack of driver safety education in Korea, I was done at the 시외 버스 (intercity bus) terminal in Jinhae on the south coast just last week, and there was a series of about 10 VERY detailed and well illustrated posters on just about every possible accident scenario at an intersection (going straight, turning right, turning left; involving cars where they should or shouldn't be, motorcycles, pedestrians) and what should be done to avoid such scenarios.  I was blown away by how good they were.  Don't remember now the name of the company (it was a company, too; the URL wasn't go.kr) that published them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I meant to write that I&#8217;ve had to wait to cross through inordinately <b>long</b> red phases.</p>
<p>Anyhow, with the all-red, as Valor points out, it does make it that much more tempting for traffic that just got a red to try to cross anyhow (assuming the cross street still has red), or for cross traffic to try to jump the light, so maybe it would all be for naught.</p>
<p>Regarding the phasing of left turns, between Nomad and Valor, it sounds like the intersection&#8217;s phasing might actually have <i>changed</i> from standard to non-standard?  That&#8217;s just whacked.</p>
<p>Anyhoo, more generally, I&#8217;ve seen vehicles on 4 wheels run red lights a couple of times in Korea (when they obviously figured it wouldn&#8217;t lead to an accident)&mdash;but then, I&#8217;ve even seen it done (by a bus driver, no less) in Vancouver.</p>
<p>Okay, last thought (on a completely different but related note): despite the impression one might get <i>vis a vis</i> a complete lack of driver safety education in Korea, I was done at the 시외 버스 (intercity bus) terminal in Jinhae on the south coast just last week, and there was a series of about 10 VERY detailed and well illustrated posters on just about every possible accident scenario at an intersection (going straight, turning right, turning left; involving cars where they should or shouldn&#8217;t be, motorcycles, pedestrians) and what should be done to avoid such scenarios.  I was blown away by how good they were.  Don&#8217;t remember now the name of the company (it was a company, too; the URL wasn&#8217;t go.kr) that published them.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/#comment-32505</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2679#comment-32505</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I've noticed that, too: there's no all-red phase with Korean traffic signals.  It means that there's a very real likelihood (in fact it's almost guaranteed)&#8212;even if no one actually enters the intersection on a red light&#8212;that someone itching to go will enter on green while there is still cross traffic clearing the intersection.  (On a side note, many a time I've been waiting to cross as a pedestrian&#8212;patiently, though often through inordinately red phases&#8212;when finally the light turns green for traffic, and I have to wait a couple of seconds till the crosswalk signal goes to "walk.")

The much bigger issue with respect to this intersection&#8212;from a traffic engineer's point of view (not that I am one)&#8212;would be the simultaneous left turns in opposite directions.  While this is standard practice in North America&#8212;indeed, very much the rule rather than the exception&#8212;it is of course highly unusual for South Korea.  The usual situation where there are protected left turns is for left-turn and through traffic in one direction to go simultaneously (동시 신호)&#8212;along with the non-conflicting crosswalk&#38;mdash.  If motorists are used to that arrangement&#8212;and why wouldn't they be?&#8212;then they may instinctively behave at this intersection in the same way as they would at other signals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I&#8217;ve noticed that, too: there&#8217;s no all-red phase with Korean traffic signals.  It means that there&#8217;s a very real likelihood (in fact it&#8217;s almost guaranteed)&mdash;even if no one actually enters the intersection on a red light&mdash;that someone itching to go will enter on green while there is still cross traffic clearing the intersection.  (On a side note, many a time I&#8217;ve been waiting to cross as a pedestrian&mdash;patiently, though often through inordinately red phases&mdash;when finally the light turns green for traffic, and I have to wait a couple of seconds till the crosswalk signal goes to &#8220;walk.&#8221;)</p>
<p>The much bigger issue with respect to this intersection&mdash;from a traffic engineer&#8217;s point of view (not that I am one)&mdash;would be the simultaneous left turns in opposite directions.  While this is standard practice in North America&mdash;indeed, very much the rule rather than the exception&mdash;it is of course highly unusual for South Korea.  The usual situation where there are protected left turns is for left-turn and through traffic in one direction to go simultaneously (동시 신호)&mdash;along with the non-conflicting crosswalk&amp;mdash.  If motorists are used to that arrangement&mdash;and why wouldn&#8217;t they be?&mdash;then they may instinctively behave at this intersection in the same way as they would at other signals.</p>
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		<title>By: kushibo</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/#comment-32500</link>
		<dc:creator>kushibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 11:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2679#comment-32500</guid>
		<description>I have noticed the non-delayed lights at many intersections. It is a hazard for impatient pedestrians, especially children, who march out into the street as soon as they get a green WALK signal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have noticed the non-delayed lights at many intersections. It is a hazard for impatient pedestrians, especially children, who march out into the street as soon as they get a green WALK signal.</p>
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		<title>By: Valor</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/04/07/beware-of-motorcycles/#comment-32499</link>
		<dc:creator>Valor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 11:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2679#comment-32499</guid>
		<description>In terms of how the green arrow "shows up", You will notice that the RED light is clearly on at the same time as the green arrow. That would not be the case if the green light for cross traffic had already take effect.  As for the taxi, I never noticed what happened to the taxi, but I relooked the video clip, and it appears the taxi made a rather wide left turn into the far right lane of traffic headed towards Itaewon.  Maybe he did that to stop, or maybe he was just moving over to the far right lane to head out towards Banpo Bridge.  I dunno.  One problem here at this intersection as I see it . . .the light is not a delayed light when changing.  By that, I mean that, unlike we do in the states nowadays, this light, when changing to red in one direction, immediately triggers a green for cross traffic, rather than using a built-in 5 second delay.  Had the light delay function been incorporated, perhaps the accident could have been avoided.  However, having lived here for 12 years, in all probability, the typical Korean AND American driver would then proceed to factor in the delay and run the red light with even more abandon due to a "perceived" fudge factor!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In terms of how the green arrow &#8220;shows up&#8221;, You will notice that the RED light is clearly on at the same time as the green arrow. That would not be the case if the green light for cross traffic had already take effect.  As for the taxi, I never noticed what happened to the taxi, but I relooked the video clip, and it appears the taxi made a rather wide left turn into the far right lane of traffic headed towards Itaewon.  Maybe he did that to stop, or maybe he was just moving over to the far right lane to head out towards Banpo Bridge.  I dunno.  One problem here at this intersection as I see it . . .the light is not a delayed light when changing.  By that, I mean that, unlike we do in the states nowadays, this light, when changing to red in one direction, immediately triggers a green for cross traffic, rather than using a built-in 5 second delay.  Had the light delay function been incorporated, perhaps the accident could have been avoided.  However, having lived here for 12 years, in all probability, the typical Korean AND American driver would then proceed to factor in the delay and run the red light with even more abandon due to a &#8220;perceived&#8221; fudge factor!</p>
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