If you want to see the result of Korea Times columnist Philip Dorsey Iglauer’s interview with yours truly, here it is. There are a couple of errors in it (i.e., I was NOT the dean of English at Kwangju U; I was just a garden variety English instructor), and some of it might require further explanation, but that’s what my comments section is for. So, if you’ve got a question for the Marmot concerning the history of the blog, blogging or the like, ask away.
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69 Comments
They were patriots once but no more? I’ll add this eggnog to my collection…
What kinda article was that?
The kind of article that used the word bitching in the actual text rather than just in a quote.
Robert’s comment about white men being a bastian of conservatism was most painful. I’m now going through ethnic identity issues.
I’m used to reading refereed journals, but that KT article made my head spin
Uncle Robert is only an “honorary” white man.
Dogbertt:
Are you trying to say he’s an inside out banana?
I enjoy the whole Marmot world very much. Not sure I’m entirely supportive, though, of the angle the writer (and also the Marmot) took in regard to the Korea / blogging community being right wing - selected quotes below:
“An explosion of Korea blogging by English-speaking and by-and-large **male and conservative** expatriates has occurred over the past four years.”
“But he agreed that one could certainly get the opinion that English-language Korea blogs are simply a collection of Korea-hating rants by **right-wing, white men**.”
“‘Our political sociology will automatically skew opinion rightward,’ he said in speculating on the apparent **right-wing bent among Korea blogs. ‘I have been here for 10 years. White men here are pretty much a **conservative bastion,**’ he said”.
I mean, I know that Flying Yangban is at GOPKOREA.blogs.com, and the GI blogs tend to be predictably Red State, in line with the demographic… However gotta wave the flag for the Left Wing White Males In Korea bit.
Actually having started writing this, I wanted to link to the one very left-wing expat blog in Korea to make the point, but now I can’t find it / can’t remember the name
any ideas anyone?
There’s a good left-wing angle in many of the NK blogs as well (modern left-wing rather than DPRK, which doesn’t qualify)…
Typical crap from this idiot. Robert, I’m sorry that you had to subject yourself to that type of treatment. His sorry excuse for an article doesn’t even come close to doing justice to the contributions this blog makes to the community. I mean, putting aside (momentarily) the amusing stupid foreigner tricks posts, or the links to cute korean babes (which i am most certainly NOT protesting), you do a lot of really good work for a lot of people with your translations. As you put it somewhere, it’s a window into the Korean press and society that we don’t get from the KT and KH. This ass didn’t even mention any of that or the great commentary that typically follows your “must reads”.
alright, now that i’ve got that off my chest, enough of the seriousness! more “definitely-not-work-safe” posts! (please)
Ironic that with as few NSW posts there are, the screenshot in the KT article was that of Lee, Pani
People are going to get the wrong (or is it right?) idea about the Hole.
All this time I’ve been part of the vast right-wing conspiracy?
I feel so duped.
Actually, what I tried to say is that a good many of the blogs in Korea might be conservative because a large portion of the Western expat community is American, white and male, with a large number of military and corporate types. Because of this demographic, you might see a disproportionately high volume of rightwing views being expressed. Of course, that’s not to say all the Korea blogs are run by raving conservatives. Of course, they’re not, and you could easily assembly a list of good Korea blogs run by guys of left-of-center political views, or blogs run by bloggers who are neither male nor white.
As for the explosion in blogs dedicated to bitching about Korea, well, yes, there has been an increase in number of English-language blogs that can, at times, be very critical of certain aspects of Korea. If you’re new to the Korea blogosphere and haven’t been following said blogs closely, they can come off as a bitch-fest, especially when you take into account the comment sections. My own feeling is that this is driven in large part by politics: Korea has been drifting leftward, and the Korea-U.S. alliance is going through a rough patch. There’s a whole lot of bitching about the United States among Korean netizens, and I guess it’s natural that American bloggers are going to bitch back. And most of those doing the bitching bitch not just for bitching’s sake, but because they want Korea to be “all it can be,” so to speak. Anyway, it’s an interesting contrast with some of the expat bloggers in Japan (or at least the ones I read), where there seems to be more sympathy and support for the direction in which Japan is heading. Another thing I should add (and I’m quoted in the article saying) is that bitching about Korea might be a sign that you’re starting to blend in; at the risk of making a very broad cultural generalization, Koreans are not exactly a happy-go-lucky minjok (given the country’s history, this is probably understandable), and the Korean media and netizens spend much of the energy bitching up a storm about the country.
MJ–In due fairness to the guy, I’m NOT an easy interview. I have a tendency to ramble quite a bit, and it’s got to be a bitch trying to figure out what the hell I actually said. Anyway, he seems like a nice enough fellow: didn’t meet him, but sounded nice enough over the phone.
Even knowing that the editorial space of the Korea Times is riddled with more shit than a cow pasture, I can’t read anything by that particular KT writer without vomit welling up in my throat from all his stupid writings.
I don’t think Korean leftists are really liberal in any of the very important senses of the word. What’s liberal about jingoism, North Korea adulation, media censorship and knee-jerk anti-Americanism?
Iglauer could have checked the side panel of the Marmot and logged onto a dozen blogs and sampled their flavors. If he were looking for left-of-center bloggers or moderates with a general though not uncritical sympathy toward Korea, how about Kushibo or Oranckay for starters?
Regardless of the demographic, blogs in general are bitchfests and generally a forum for those to spew without fear of reprisal (semi)anonymously.
that was a hack job of an article. poor guy’s gotta learn to seque or at the very least introduce, support and close his points. i mean really, what were those friggin’ points?
Again, in fairness to the guy, I’m not the ideal interview candidate, and he’s writing for a hardcopy publication. It ain’t easy trying to include everything within a set word count.
random guy — fair point, and to add to it, a lot of the blogs (at least the ones I tend to read) are political in nature, and political blogs anywhere in the world are going to take on a decidely negative tone. Nature of the beast, I guess.
Ah, amateur night!
I was really looking forward to that, but what a terrible article. Forget that nonsense about you not being an ideal interview candidate — how does someone like that get a job writing published articles?
“It ticked off 3,000 daily…” It made that many people angry?
“Instantapundit”?? Sheesh, google would have told you how to spell that one right.
Using “bitching” in an article? Once, quoting you, maybe (although a real editor would have scratched that out). But notice that the author used it twice, once on his own and once quoting you.
“Koehler said he and his ilk”?? Beyond the ugly wording of that, what kind of article refers to the interviewees compatriots as “ilk”?
Not to mention the error of you being a university Dean and the absurd “Ex-patriot” comment already noted. Gimme a break.
“It ticked off 3,000 daily…”
I thought he meant that as a counter, but I can see how it could be read as ‘angered.’
Sure, that’s what he meant. Journalism 101 would have told him to avoid that kind of confusing phrasing (not to mention it’s unnatural language).
I have a feeling he has the same credentials as the average hakwon teacher
that guy from migukin, you know, the one who bought a minor a bottle of soju, is less horrible than that Iglauer guy
When I joined this blog about two years ago, comments were much more confrontational; there were two clear sides, one pro- and the other anti-Korean. There were some severe languages tossed back and forth. And, lots of name-calling and smear tactics. I sort of miss those days. Nah!
Things have toned down quite a bit since. This blog is more presentable to everyone, including some Koreans who can read English. Less angry and more informative.
“He said he is afraid of his site being swamped by netizens because he or someone posting on his site could say something to incur the wrath of Korean netizens.” - Depending on who becomes the next President of Korea, this blog may continue its gentle path or it may turn back into an angry anti-government gathering. As you are afraid, one commentor may break some secrets about government or about the US-Korea relationship. That may be a good thing. This blog may operate like a Radio “Free Korea” where people from all nations fight against lies spread by the government. Many freedom-loving Koreans may turn to this blog to get “true” information. That day may come.
I see that I wasn’t the only one to find the use of the word “bitching” in a newspaper article. I read past it and had to go back and read it again just to make sure I saw that correctly.
The funniest Korean bitching I’ve heard (and I paraphrase):
Korean democracy is like a boat stuck on a big rock. Everyone’s rowing, but the boat is going nowhere.
it’ll be great to get the exposure-specifically more of the korean demographic in here. maybe even some government officials…
i just don’t want anyone knocking on my door with questions about a president no meets philly fanatic avatar…
“Dogbertt:
Are you trying to say he’s an inside out banana?”
No, Dogbertt is saying that Robert is a sell-out to White Pride.
Well, I absolutely gave up on reading the KH, and days like this with the KT just make me groan. No offense to you, Robert – I’ve sung your praises on the blog before – but dean of the English Department at Kwangju University? Didn’t something give him pause when he was writing that?
What does it take to get a job as a writer at one of the newspapers here, both in terms of an applicant’s credentials and the vetting process that they’re put through?
Another error you missed, which seems to reinforce the right-wing slant:
Not the most popular blog in the world, hasn’t been for some time, and isn’t even in the current top 10. Daily Kos takes that title (unless you count Fark as a blog), with almost 5x the traffic as Instadunce.
Check out Alexa or TTBL for the facts.
This craptacular piece from the KT, along with the shittastic one from the Joongang last week, only serve to reinforce why Korean blogs are so popular: The writing and reporting in the English language rags in Korea is so incredibly awful — both from Koreans and from whitey “journalists” plucked from hagwons — that K-blogs are the only decent source of relevant information and analysis.
“Bitching is in keeping with the local culture,” he said. Truer words were never spoken.
Slim totally nailed why ostensible leftists (hate that word, but whatever) like myself sound so conservative vis-a-vis Korean politics–the so-called “progressives” of Korea are some of the most narrow-minded, jingoistic idiots I’ve ever met (and I have in fact met several of them).
I’m praising the Bush administration for fecks sake! Only because Amb. Vershbow, Jay Lefkowitz, et al are taking a laudable stand on N. Korea, while the pretend leftists in Korea dodge the issues or actually support Kim Jongil’s regime, which is disgusting.
Mr. Marmot is the Costco of the Korean Blogosphere: bitching in bulk sizes, and specials you can’t get elsewhere because the locals don’t stock it
If he were looking for left-of-center bloggers or moderates with a general though not uncritical sympathy toward Korea, how about Kushibo or Oranckay for starters?
Ever since I started calling my blog Monster Island, a lot of people have stayed away. I think they’re afraid.
But it’s just a name.
michael said
“I’m praising the Bush administration for fecks sake! Only because Amb. Vershbow, Jay Lefkowitz, et al are taking a laudable stand on N. Korea, while the pretend leftists in Korea dodge the issues or actually support Kim Jongil’s regime, which is disgusting.”
Watch the NK issue take a back seat as the bush hawks condition the americans for a war with Iran.
dogbertt wrote:
Uncle Robert is only an “honorary” white man.
Dogbertt, what exactly do you mean by this?
Kushibo,
I think one reason fewer people are visiting your site is because the first post they see when they visit is the “Ask Kushibo” post. That may be quickly glancing at that post and assuming that you have not updated your site since their last visit. Maybe you should consider offering your services with a link in your Monster Island discription? They can follow the link to your post and ask their questions there.
Gerry, I do appreciate your advice, but actually I was being sarcastic. My blog is humming along at the same measly 100 hits per day that I usually get, both pre- and post-name addition.
I did leave a note at the top of the “Ask Kushibo” link, though, telling people to scroll down for current posts, because I was concerned that people might do as you suggested some might.
In general, except for those trying to find links to “nude Koreans,” most of the people visiting my website are of the habit of scrolling down to see what’s there.
A lot of people head in there through Marmot’s Blog Aggregator anyway, so they would bypass the “Ask Kushibo” post altogether.
Ah, how richly nuanced. Perhaps Uncle Robert’s status as an ‘honorary’ white man is due to his new “understanding” of extremist anti American leftist Koreans. It is one thing to spend time in another country getting to know the culture and the language, another to go native.
My new new “understanding” of extremist anti-American leftist Koreans?
Shakuhachi, I really would like to hear what Dogbertt meant, without the editorializing of others.
“sympathetic” was the word I was looking for.
I know what you meant, shakuhachi. And where did I express sympathy for extremist anti-American leftist Koreans?
I was not addressing you, nor responding to you comment, so you can take your superior attitude and shove it somewhere that is unmentionable on this blog.
Look here for some assistance.
I was not addressing you, nor responding to you comment, so you can take your superior attitude and shove it somewhere that is unmentionable on this blog.
Perhaps “editorializing” was not the best word choice.
I simply was stating that since Dogbertt offered this comment without prompting from anyone else, I really wanted to hear what he means before you (or The Marmot or JYCE or anyone else) answered it in his stead.
My apologies for the poor word choice and for assuming you were answering the question I had asked two comments earlier.
Robert, when you spoke about ‘Korean liberals’, which are the same people protesting outside bases, right?
No, I wasn’t. I’d hardly refer to neo-fascist reunificationistas as either liberal or progressive.
It’s nothing new to see the comments from bashers regardless of national on any blogs and news site. If you go to Amercian site there’s A-basher, same to Japanse site and to Chinese…
It’s also true that most Korean related blogs are bashing-oriented.
Still, in my opinion, it’s great opportunity for me and for other Korean to see all kinds of perspectives on different issues.
The article wasn’t too bad, all things considered. I’ve met the reporter and he’s a nice enough guy. I’m a bit envious of his job, of course. The only thing that startled me a bit was the use of “bitch” in the article. You simply never use that word in a “family” newspaper.
But then, I buy underage kids soju.
What do I know about family?
I still think A-sa~~ is a cool concept for a blog, even though no one reads it anymore. Not a lot of “blovels” out there, now are there?
Hansaram, don’t know what you consider “bashing,” but if you want an extremely insightful blog on Korean society that doesn’t pull punches, check out Scribblings of the Metropolitician–Mr. Marmot has him linked here.
That’s truly sad.
Why is it sad, dogbertt?
He’s working at a daily. I totally love my job current job — for many reasons — but it’d be cool to work a daily newspaper. Even if it was the KT.
who invented this “shelton” character. obviously, someone has just been inserting him to stir the pot a bit.
Shelton: if the article is any indication, I’m sure you could walk into a job writing for the KT. So could my 8 year old neice.
Although if you want to do the paper a favor, you might want to apply for a position as editor or fact-checker — that’s clearly where they’re most seriously lacking.
yes!
go Shelton!
(I’m not being sarcastic here)
It is sad because these writers are by and large not professional journalists, but rather moonlighting hogwon employees or wannabe academics who became interested in writing psuedo-academic pieces on Korea when they married Korean women. It should be the easiest thing in the world for you to get the same gig, especially since you supposedly do have some small-town newspaper experience.
Shelton: in all seriousness, did you read my first comment? The writing, choice of words, fact-checking, editing, and everything about this article was awful awful awful.
English-language newspapers in Korea have a relatively small audience, yet they are continually at odds with the non-Korean market segment. Bad writing, unsubstantiated claims, editorializing of non-editorial work - you name it, and they’re frequently found to be doing it.
Curzon — I can’t argue with you. You’re right. If you read what I wrote carefully, you’ll see you could drive a freight train through my postive statement. wink
While I would really like to work for any of the dailies here….I like my current job too much and I have too many opportunities with them. I guess I need to get off my butt and start trying to freelance for them or something.
Must - resist - urge…
Shelton: Are you claiming that your aforementioned desires of working at the KT were said in jest? If so, I’d recommend you “up” your sarcasm.
Nope. Not a jest. But I think I could make that paper better by working there.
I never said I had a small ego.
I envision a three-way race between Miller, Iglauer, and Bumgarner for a Pulitzer next year.
The Igaluer piece is way off the mark in assuming most bloggers here are necessarily conservative white men although it would be very easy to dismiss negative comments about Korean society if this were in fact the case. But things aren’t always so cut and dry.
Like terrorism and porn, living in Korea can create common consensus regardless of previous or current political leanings. I’ve read just as many slams on Korea from lefties as right-wingers and over a beer a lot of tree-hugger types will voice the exact same frustrations as the WASP set.
It would be convenient to dismiss these ‘bashers’ as burger-flippers-cum-English-teachers, ‘ignorant’ GIs, or trailer-trash naturally insensitive to other cultures, but most just don’t fit into those neat little slots. I’m of the Left, have traveled to over sixty countries, lived in five and enjoyed all of them.
Koreans can be a friendly bunch, but at the same time this is the only society where the degree of nationalism and often bizarre superiority/inferiority complex have driven me to vent from time to time on boards such as this one.
Mook, you’re my long-lost brother
It’s one of those things about Korea that aggravate me to no end, as I said in the “Why Koreans have their doubts about anti-NK protests” post–whereas I often admire the left in other parts of the world, the Korean left mindset with the over-the-top nationalism and “often bizarre superiority/inferiority complex” just makes the conservatives here look better by comparison.
maybe your father ’slipped a sperm’
I hear with you, mate. This place has shattered my previous conceptions of cultural relativism and forced me to realize that youth does not always equate with a progressive outlook. Incredibly, the old Koreans who lived under extreme state censorship tend to be more open-minded than the 20s crowd who have a world of information at their fingertips. Here, and only here, I often tell myself Don’t trust anyone under 30 - and that’s kinda sad.
Random guy, my dad was part of the Viking horde, raping and pillaging–alright, drinking Bud and napping, but in his mind he was doing the Swedish Bikini Team…or was that me….
Random Guy, did your parents have any children that lived?
Damn, where’s that Smiley when you need it!
hee hee
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[...] The bad news is that Kaesong-made goods look to be headed toward acceptance into the ASEAN FTA. This comes via Philip Dorsey Iglauer, who has made himself infamous both for awful reporting and awful analysis, so you’ve been warned. [...]