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	<title>Comments on: No Experiments, Please &#8212; We&#8217;re Scientists</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: luxbearer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/#comment-31761</link>
		<dc:creator>luxbearer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2627#comment-31761</guid>
		<description>"I transcribed most of Robert Laughlin’s white paper on how to transform KAIST into a “world-class science university” ™ to give those interested a better idea of what Laughlin was really up to."


Is there no English version from Dr. Laughlin himself?

What are those snips?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I transcribed most of Robert Laughlin’s white paper on how to transform KAIST into a “world-class science university” ™ to give those interested a better idea of what Laughlin was really up to.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is there no English version from Dr. Laughlin himself?</p>
<p>What are those snips?</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/#comment-31683</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 04:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2627#comment-31683</guid>
		<description>I agree with your second point, gbevers.

However, I differ on the first.  There can also be a Western arrogance as well.  Korean organizations are different from western ones in terms of social, political, historical and economic reasons. Many western outsiders charge into Korean situation like a bull in a china shop disregarding differences.

The case in point: many US Army generals come for three-year stay in Korea and want to change how Korean army is run.  Korean army has been there since 1945, but a smart-alek general from the US, who knows nothing about Korean theater, comes in and wants to make his mark.  WTF!

Many of them confuse Korean theater with an European situation that they are more familiar with.  So, they want to change Korean army.  And, they do not listen to Korean generals who has been at it for twenty years or more.  After three years, they are gone.  A new general comes and he wants to change everything back to the way it was.  WTF!

Arrogance is a universal disease.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your second point, gbevers.</p>
<p>However, I differ on the first.  There can also be a Western arrogance as well.  Korean organizations are different from western ones in terms of social, political, historical and economic reasons. Many western outsiders charge into Korean situation like a bull in a china shop disregarding differences.</p>
<p>The case in point: many US Army generals come for three-year stay in Korea and want to change how Korean army is run.  Korean army has been there since 1945, but a smart-alek general from the US, who knows nothing about Korean theater, comes in and wants to make his mark.  WTF!</p>
<p>Many of them confuse Korean theater with an European situation that they are more familiar with.  So, they want to change Korean army.  And, they do not listen to Korean generals who has been at it for twenty years or more.  After three years, they are gone.  A new general comes and he wants to change everything back to the way it was.  WTF!</p>
<p>Arrogance is a universal disease.</p>
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		<title>By: gbevers</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/#comment-31682</link>
		<dc:creator>gbevers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 03:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2627#comment-31682</guid>
		<description>Baduk said: "Koreans do not need an outsider to come in and tell them what to do. Koreans are smart...."

Gerry says: Baduk touches on one of the problems in Korea: Koreans think they are smarter than everyone else, and they are not usually shy about telling you. Of course, this arrogance leads to many costly mistakes that are covered up by spending even more money to make that square peg they bought fit into that round hole they bought it for. So if the president of a Korean company, or even the president of Korea, makes a bad decision, his or her underlings will spend and do what it takes to make that decision work, rather than admit that it was a bad decision. 

Koreans often go on instinct or think with their emotions, rather than their heads, and jump into something without considering the consequences. I think President Roh is the perfect example of a Korean making decisions based on emotions rather than planning. In Korea, things get done much more often by trial-and-error than by careful planning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baduk said: &#8220;Koreans do not need an outsider to come in and tell them what to do. Koreans are smart&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gerry says: Baduk touches on one of the problems in Korea: Koreans think they are smarter than everyone else, and they are not usually shy about telling you. Of course, this arrogance leads to many costly mistakes that are covered up by spending even more money to make that square peg they bought fit into that round hole they bought it for. So if the president of a Korean company, or even the president of Korea, makes a bad decision, his or her underlings will spend and do what it takes to make that decision work, rather than admit that it was a bad decision. </p>
<p>Koreans often go on instinct or think with their emotions, rather than their heads, and jump into something without considering the consequences. I think President Roh is the perfect example of a Korean making decisions based on emotions rather than planning. In Korea, things get done much more often by trial-and-error than by careful planning.</p>
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		<title>By: judge judy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/#comment-31666</link>
		<dc:creator>judge judy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 03:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2627#comment-31666</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Korean government hired this runt to smile at passers-by and eat his meals. Korean people wanted him to play Mickey Rooney. However, he turned out to a Napoleon. Bye, Bye!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

i think you hit the nail on the head baduk.  for all of his scientific and managerial skill, he forgot to find out who's really running the show and what their expectations are.  although a lot of his reforms would do well in improving the competitiveness of the organization and help to more clearly define what the objectives for student placement may be, the poor chap didn't do his homework on the korean organizational structure.  

however, perhaps he doesn't really care about that.  he was hired to work on reform and came at 'em with his guns blazing.  in the US, this is par for the course-how points are defined before a collaborative effort to work on them occurs.  but a bureaucratic, government-backed, confucist-based socialist organization doesn't often work like that.  he was the fly in the ointment.  i doubt that he cares too much that korea was not ready to look hard at their research even though they ask for outside help reforming.  the only way outside reform works is if it's forced down someone's throat here (e.g. IMF constraints post financial crisis).  in the end, he did his stint, accomplished what was originally asked for and will leave to bigger and better adventures i'm sure.

most of his points in the article make sense to me, although they need refinement.  even increasing the arts would be great.  most people my age that had even a dabbling in science read Gödel, Escher, Bach and the like to increase the awareness of the interplay between the arts and sciences.  the philosophy and history of science clearly show a linkage between arts and sciences.  the one major point that is challenging in his proposal is mapping revenue directly to specific research tracks.  this is not a very tenable position as many breakthroughs were not being looked for when they were found.  however, successful research labs can accomplish this less explicitly through the leaders of various research areas.  

in the end, laughlin's out.  although i'm not too familiar with all that was going on down there, i get that there was a sense of demonization after jealousy that he spent so much time and money travelling to conferences and such.  sadly, we'll never have an answer to how productive he may have been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Korean government hired this runt to smile at passers-by and eat his meals. Korean people wanted him to play Mickey Rooney. However, he turned out to a Napoleon. Bye, Bye!</p></blockquote>
<p>i think you hit the nail on the head baduk.  for all of his scientific and managerial skill, he forgot to find out who&#8217;s really running the show and what their expectations are.  although a lot of his reforms would do well in improving the competitiveness of the organization and help to more clearly define what the objectives for student placement may be, the poor chap didn&#8217;t do his homework on the korean organizational structure.  </p>
<p>however, perhaps he doesn&#8217;t really care about that.  he was hired to work on reform and came at &#8216;em with his guns blazing.  in the US, this is par for the course-how points are defined before a collaborative effort to work on them occurs.  but a bureaucratic, government-backed, confucist-based socialist organization doesn&#8217;t often work like that.  he was the fly in the ointment.  i doubt that he cares too much that korea was not ready to look hard at their research even though they ask for outside help reforming.  the only way outside reform works is if it&#8217;s forced down someone&#8217;s throat here (e.g. IMF constraints post financial crisis).  in the end, he did his stint, accomplished what was originally asked for and will leave to bigger and better adventures i&#8217;m sure.</p>
<p>most of his points in the article make sense to me, although they need refinement.  even increasing the arts would be great.  most people my age that had even a dabbling in science read Gödel, Escher, Bach and the like to increase the awareness of the interplay between the arts and sciences.  the philosophy and history of science clearly show a linkage between arts and sciences.  the one major point that is challenging in his proposal is mapping revenue directly to specific research tracks.  this is not a very tenable position as many breakthroughs were not being looked for when they were found.  however, successful research labs can accomplish this less explicitly through the leaders of various research areas.  </p>
<p>in the end, laughlin&#8217;s out.  although i&#8217;m not too familiar with all that was going on down there, i get that there was a sense of demonization after jealousy that he spent so much time and money travelling to conferences and such.  sadly, we&#8217;ll never have an answer to how productive he may have been.</p>
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		<title>By: R. Elgin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/#comment-31664</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Elgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 02:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2627#comment-31664</guid>
		<description>Actually, I must agree with "bluejives" in that Samsung and LG should be pouring money into KAIST instead of politics since their future business would more likely benefit.  When China gets really big in the technology sector, where would a Korean scientist go to earn good money: Korea or China?  

I predict that the future of Korean technology is going to be assimulated by the Chinese; the king and the clown -- part VI . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I must agree with &#8220;bluejives&#8221; in that Samsung and LG should be pouring money into KAIST instead of politics since their future business would more likely benefit.  When China gets really big in the technology sector, where would a Korean scientist go to earn good money: Korea or China?  </p>
<p>I predict that the future of Korean technology is going to be assimulated by the Chinese; the king and the clown &#8212; part VI . . .</p>
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		<title>By: baker</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/#comment-31639</link>
		<dc:creator>baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2627#comment-31639</guid>
		<description>foreigners in korea are assets to be tolerated only when useful and then discarded. if there were a korean who could have done what he did he never would have been here.

what did he do?
 he brought the nobel name. they have it now and they will use it years after hes gone.
 his high profile secured a fat government grant. 
what he did wrong:
 try and do anything else. 

you dont have to try hard to immagine the horror of a foreinger distributing korean gov. funds to koreans based on anthing except korean/confucian order of age, status etc.

he has served his purpose, now he's gone</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>foreigners in korea are assets to be tolerated only when useful and then discarded. if there were a korean who could have done what he did he never would have been here.</p>
<p>what did he do?<br />
 he brought the nobel name. they have it now and they will use it years after hes gone.<br />
 his high profile secured a fat government grant.<br />
what he did wrong:<br />
 try and do anything else. </p>
<p>you dont have to try hard to immagine the horror of a foreinger distributing korean gov. funds to koreans based on anthing except korean/confucian order of age, status etc.</p>
<p>he has served his purpose, now he&#8217;s gone</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/#comment-31634</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2627#comment-31634</guid>
		<description>Prof. Lauglin was selected because he received a Nobel prize.  Koreans are big on credentials, not necessarily on abilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof. Lauglin was selected because he received a Nobel prize.  Koreans are big on credentials, not necessarily on abilities.</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/#comment-31631</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2627#comment-31631</guid>
		<description>That is what they say but what they really wanted was a Nobel prize winner who will play along.

Koreans do not need an outsider to come in and tell them what to do.  Koreans are smart; KAIST has been there for decades and it will be there after this Laughlin guy leaves.

What people say and what people really want are two different things.  One thing they do not want is an American "FKIA" to come and order them around.  

If this Lauglin guy knew how to work with Koreans, he could have accomplished a lot more in reforming the university.  Always start with small steps.  Do not rock the boat, especially in Government organizations- too many entrenched interest groups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is what they say but what they really wanted was a Nobel prize winner who will play along.</p>
<p>Koreans do not need an outsider to come in and tell them what to do.  Koreans are smart; KAIST has been there for decades and it will be there after this Laughlin guy leaves.</p>
<p>What people say and what people really want are two different things.  One thing they do not want is an American &#8220;FKIA&#8221; to come and order them around.  </p>
<p>If this Lauglin guy knew how to work with Koreans, he could have accomplished a lot more in reforming the university.  Always start with small steps.  Do not rock the boat, especially in Government organizations- too many entrenched interest groups.</p>
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		<title>By: Haisan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/#comment-31629</link>
		<dc:creator>Haisan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2627#comment-31629</guid>
		<description>Baduk - You are forgetting one important point -- the university and MOST recruited Laughlin for the expressed purpose of reforming the university.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baduk - You are forgetting one important point &#8212; the university and MOST recruited Laughlin for the expressed purpose of reforming the university.</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/30/no-experiments-please-were-scientists/#comment-31611</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2627#comment-31611</guid>
		<description>dda,

Have you seen anything done logically in Korea?  There are hidden agendas and entrenched interest groups and political payoffs/gratuities/appointments and regionalism.

Just play along.  Korea is a bizzarro world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dda,</p>
<p>Have you seen anything done logically in Korea?  There are hidden agendas and entrenched interest groups and political payoffs/gratuities/appointments and regionalism.</p>
<p>Just play along.  Korea is a bizzarro world.</p>
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