(starts wearing flamesuit on)

……so, anybody did get the number of that Irish girl?

I often don’t mind admitting when I’ve been a jerk or an idiot (when I realize it).

Like with the short comment I made about Lankov a couple of weeks ago. Marmot and others were right to beat me about the head with it, because I was an ass.

But, I don’t apologize for the two comments above about the ESL worker topic and how it plays out in the expat community.

Right or wrong (which will depend on who the reader is) I am convinced the reason was justified and actually proper given how many times I’ve listened to exactly that kind of nastiness or read it at places like Dave’s ESL Cafe or elsewhere.

It’s much the same with the GI and the history of the US-SK relationship in the expat community in Korea.

Why sugarcoat it? Why pretend that isn’t how everybody thinks and frequently talks about these topics.

Everything I wrote in those two comments are things I’ve heard many times in the expat community —– and not from just a bunch of bad people.

That level of thought is the norm.

One other point I wanted to make.

One of the frequent justifications for gloating over the abuse hakwon workers face is mentioning of how many illegal ESL instructors there are.

I can’t speak for the hakwon industry today, because I haven’t been around it in several years, but when I was in it for several years, that justification didn’t fit the few illegal workers I met.

In fact, the opposite seemed true.

The illegal workers were one of the few who seemed to have figured out how to work the system to their advantage.

One of the ones I met and got to know (a good guy) said he always asks expats who have been in country for more than a year why they still toil in hakwon hell rather than go illegal.

These guys do a lot of illegal private classes — which means much bigger money than what hakwon workers make.

They also often get paid up front for a month or two weeks or how ever much the student wants to pay, so they don’t have to worry about the bad hakwon habit of finding many deductions in your pay or withholding your pay — especially your last month’s pay and your required by law year end bonus (like Big Hominid mentioned).

And a couple of the illegals brought into hakwons I worked at did the same there. They forced the hakwons to pay them up front. Or, in another case when one got screwed around with for some of his pay, he started reading a newspaper for his class hours. — That is something I could never do. The students or their parents pay good money for those classes. It isn’t their fault (mainly) that hakwon owners are often bastards. — but a teacher who wants to teach is often caught between a rock and a hard place. Sometimes, it seems like the newspaper reader has figured it out right — if they are only going to give him a percentage of his pay, do a percentage of the work.

Best of all, if these illegal workers are doing hakwon hours, and the hakwons start playing with them, they can do what is virtually impossible — simply leave. Go to another place.

And if they get into something with one of the hakwon owner types who will call immigration or something like that, they can relocate to another city.

These few illegal teachers I met had their own apartments —- much better than the free one I used (but since it was free, I didn’t complain much).

And doing this illegal work, they were able to save up a good amount of cash and could afford to relocate at will or could take a small hit if they did lose some wages from a hakwon or private lesson person.

From my experience, the ESL workers that do fit much of what you hear in discussions like this one — who are doing a lot of the serious whining — are ones who tried to do it legally and follow the rules.

Maybe all of these people are idiots for having come to Korea to begin with given the reputation it has.

I still think it is a pile of shit to say they deserve it, and I think it should be stated that way.

But, if you want to call them idiots, it is no big deal to me.

But, I don’t think bringing in the fact there are so many illegal ESl workers ———– can be used as a justification for bashing the hakwon workers who get screwed.

The illegal workers take a much, much smaller beating from the hakwon owners, because they have figured out how to minimize the risks (and maximize the profits).

After Brendan sent me an email about the comment, I replied with most of what follows below.

I want to add the basic idea and what led it to pop into my mind while reading the orignial post.

Brendan’s title was cheeky and had STFU.

It reminded me of how Marmot recently said he had cleaned his language up for readers (and seems to have decided to journalisticize his thoughts too….again, just curious about that).

My point in using the vulgarity in the two comments was — why not type “Shut The Fuck Up” out?

Futher explanation to follow:

Here is the bulk of the email I sent Brendan:

If this conversation were done in public — like in a bar — it would not come off nearly as angry.

Much of it was making a small (or key) point —- that the ESL Instructor issue isn’t discussed in a vaccum.

I skimmed the comments fairly quickly, but I noticed in one where someone said your post was rather bitter or harsh or so on, and you came back saying that you were not slamming the ESL people as a whole and he should bother to read the comment more carefully.

It should be obvious from the amount of heat your post generated — on both sides — that the conversation isn’t without a very clear and well known background in the expat community.

That is why Ruminations in Korea had his blood start to boil —– thinking about the ESL instructors.

And why someone like me or Big Hominid and others took issue with it as a slam.

But, to the side issue about the language —— what I was trying to do was put the conversation in the proper context —–

For example —- You put in the title — STFU —

My point in being so bitter-sounding and liberal use of foul language was trying to make this point —

Why not write out “Shut the fuck up”?

That thought —- shut the fuck up — is EXACTLY the tone and manner in which this conversation takes place among the expats in person —

Most of the people heaping incredible amounts of abuse on the ESL people who complain or just on them in general.

And the amazing part is it is often other ESL instructors (especially 2nd year or later ones) who do the kicking while someone is down.

Or, in the minority, people like me who stuck it out in Korea for good reasons who nonetheless got ass-reamed a couple of times — who managed to not hate Korea or the large chunk of the Western expat community in Korea — the ESL instructors.

The reason I chose the language I did in the comments — and the reason at one moment I was putting in my own thoughts and the next mimicing someone else bashing the ESL instructors was —— that language fits how people think about the subject.

So, in this reply, I have chosen to omit pretty much all the harsh rhetoric and such that swirls around the topic.

It is nicer and is slightly closer to how I feel about the topic ——– because it is a hopeless mess with both sides so entrenched in their opinion and the opinions so strongly held —– if you pick at the scabs —————– it is better to never even bring the subject up.

Kind of like abortion. A topic I haven’t discussed with anybody since 11th grade. (And if you can find anyone who knows me well who can tell you which side of that DMZ I am on, I would be utterly amazed).

Anyway, I should have made a note explaining why I used the language I did in the comment.

I did a half-assed job of it with the stuff about Big Hominid.

And what I mean is —– most of the stuff I wrote on it is EXACTLY the kind of stuff you hear in the expat community that I was around.

The attack on Kyopos —– nothing I’ve ever said or thought about that group of expats — but boy have I heard in person and read plenty of it from other expats over the years.

I think Ruminiations in Korea had something about how most of the ESL instructors had unkept hair and wore ragged clothes and embarrased their fellow countrymen.

So, I mimiced the comments pointed at Big Hominid - who says similar things about himself —- but in a COMPLETLEY different way —– and with a completely different meaning.

And that was my point. Why write out a message like this very one I’m typing now — so generic and nice sounding — when the discussions on the topic at hand —- are 99% bitter and angry and heated - on both sides — with the majority loving to despise the ESL crew?

Why pretend the contempt isn’t there?

Or, probably more to a point, why be suprised when someone takes something like this as a slam at the ESL Instructors as a generic group of losers?

The same thing was done with the stuff in the comment about Big Hominid with the idea most male ESL instructors just came to get laid easily —– I like BIg Hominid’s sense of humor and love his art work —— but anybody who has been in Korea for any significant length of time and has listened to the people talk about the other expats (GIs or ESL Instructors primarily) would easily recognize how in a discussion of loser ESL instructors —– what makes Big Hominid’s blog very entertaining —– would be used to mock and belittle all ESL instructors as a group.

And the same people enjoying a good slam on the ESL losers would never stop to think that their buddy Big Hominid is one of those guys…..He’s one of the good ones…you see………….

That is what this discussion is all about.

It is slaming and kicking and nasty.

It has been going on for years.

And it isn’t going to change.

It’s a sewer.

And I don’t mean the hakwon industry.

That is a sewer too.

I mean this issue inside the pretty much isolated and often bitter Western expat community in Korea.

Go out with a bunch of them and mention GIs or ESL Losers — and watch the fireworks that must serve some purpose somehow……

You need to go to Mexico first and then learn how to swim, then, it would take only five minutes.

Maybe, this is why we have so many Illegals in this Country. Too much hassle.

Oh. I’m sure you could have done something different. You see, Korea has 5,000 years of history. You can’t come in here and bring your values. It is their culture. You should understand why the man said that about your mother. I’m sure you aggravated the sitaution to begin with.

And what the fuck are you doing in Korea anyway, you half a Kyopo. You went to Georgetwon, right? If you were much of anything, you’d have found a good job in the US. Obviously you couldn’t hack it there and now just do nothing but simper and whine and do a lot of things to be an embarrassment to mankind, much less Americans. I mean, look at all that childish stuff about oogling women. I bet your just like all those other Fonzy wantabees who come to Korea looking to get laid because you couldn’t get any back home because your too fat and dumpy and have bad hair and …..

blah blah blah blah….

(I’m sure Bighominid will understand my point —- I like your site — and I’m sure you’ve heard things very similar to this ———- well……geez……you’ve got it all in this thread…….)

Stick around Bighominid. Stay in Korea another 2 or 3 years ——- and you’ll learn to hate those people too….

One day you’ll find yourself talking about how the biggest complaint any of those losers have is the secretary not ordering lunch for them….

(I guess I haven’t gotten cynical enough —– I never got to where I hated those people….and I better stop while I’m still ahead….)

I stopped at CM’s comment at something like, “So, are you saying if people get screwed out of a contract, they shouldn’t complain?”

Yeah. That’s about it. That’s what I wanted to say on the blog (linked to as part of the Shut the Fuck Up crowd).

The amount of utter disdain — at times like this pretty much clear banal hatred — of the English language instructors from rich Western industrial nations is large - especially if you are American.

One of the most interesting aspects is how much of the hatred is found in that very same group. It is the “Gee. Everybody is an asshole, but me…” syndrome.

Maybe its biggest in the late first year and perhaps 2nd year ESL instructors, but it comes out regularly in the longer time expats — especially those who have either moved onto better things from the hakwon industry or the military or started out in a better situation.

The “shut the fuck” attitude describes it best. Go home and flip some burgers, loser. If you weren’t such a dumb fuck, you wouldn’t have come here — or more commonly — you would have found the right school or university and avoided that. It’s your own fault, ass. You put yourself in the situation, dickhead. Go crying back home to your mother, loser.

And God help you if you mention how people don’t throw heaping piles of abuse onto others abused — like some of the immigrants I met who lived in a shitty dorm in Songnam.

Wow. What an asswipe loser you must be. Stupid. Your white. Your from the US or Canada. You have a degree. You aren’t a sex slave. So shut the fuck up. If you weren’t such a loser just trying to get laid when you couldn’t buy a date back home, stupid, you wouldn’t have put yourself in that situation to begin with.

I really shouldn’t have even started typing this. It is a complete waste of time.

And this article (and the shut the fuck response generated by so many who have been in Korea a good while and have learned the good and the bad and the ugly —– and have decided the ESL teachers and others deserve even more rebuking than before they ever knew about Korea) —-

—– has hit at a time when my desire to listen has gotten pretty low.

There really is no point in putting up a site like http://www.usinkorea.org. I started it in 2002 out of desperation while back in Korea for some langauge study and research.

I guess I was a dumb fuck then too……right?

I knew what Korea was about. I was one of the ignorant burger flippers who stayed through all the shit for 4 years (because I found enough to make it worthwhile even though I never learned to hate the others who came).

In 2002, I knew all that, but like the loser some of us are, I came back, and had so much fun several times on public transportation…….

…I put myself in that situation too…..I knew what the subway and train stations could be like. I was just asking for it……

But, why keep it going now?

For about 2 weeks or so, I’ve hardly read the Korean papers. I haven’t blogged about Korea in awhile really.

And this stuff about the English instructor losers who deserved the buttfucking they got might do the trick…..

My wife has been wanting me to stop the anti-US / USFK stuff for some time.

Nobody in the US really cares. Why should they care? The college educated crowd usually thinks of soldiers about the same say yall think of ESL instructors in Korea…..bunch of losers and assholes who couldn’t get a real job —– bunch of white trailor trash and ghetto homeboys…….

…..It’s all a big waste of time….