Comments on: No discrimination here http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/ Korea... in Blog Format Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:50:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: sanshinseon http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/#comment-30552 sanshinseon Mon, 13 Mar 2006 04:32:13 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2557#comment-30552 Me neither; despite all the years of visa-difficulties i've never really been tempted to exchange my US citizenship for Korean; i guess I'd rather be able to vote against guys like Bush than be able to vote against guys like Roh :-) > What about Robert Halley and that German bloke who appears on TV dramas from time to time? Aren’t they Korean citizens? Yes they are. It's a difficult process but possible. A few of my friends are white American guys who became Korean citizens years ago; they started out here as Peace Corps volunteers in the 1960s and just decided to stay for the long-run. Difficult decision to make i suppose, and the US Embassy strongly discourages it, but for some people it's what works for them. Hyeon-gak Seunim, Korea's most famous foreign Buddhist monk and by now a man of some influence, has tried for years to get a true-permanent-residency visa, with some legal VIPs backing him, but even he can't get the bureaucrats to grant him one... Me neither; despite all the years of visa-difficulties i’ve never really been tempted to exchange my US citizenship for Korean; i guess I’d rather be able to vote against guys like Bush than be able to vote against guys like Roh :-)

> What about Robert Halley and that German bloke who appears on TV dramas from time to time? Aren’t they Korean citizens?

Yes they are. It’s a difficult process but possible. A few of my friends are white American guys who became Korean citizens years ago; they started out here as Peace Corps volunteers in the 1960s and just decided to stay for the long-run. Difficult decision to make i suppose, and the US Embassy strongly discourages it, but for some people it’s what works for them.

Hyeon-gak Seunim, Korea’s most famous foreign Buddhist monk and by now a man of some influence, has tried for years to get a true-permanent-residency visa, with some legal VIPs backing him, but even he can’t get the bureaucrats to grant him one…

]]> By: dda http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/#comment-30541 dda Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:16:29 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2557#comment-30541 Korean citizenship and permanent residency are not the same thing, but the former serve[d/s] as the latter for a few determined Westerners – and a lot more anonymous Joes and Janes]. In the absence of a permanent residency, many of the people took up the citizenship to avoid having to renew the "Alien Card" every year, to be able to buy land – until not so long ago it wasn't exactly easy for foreigners – pay fewer taxes [in the case of "entertainers"], etc... But giving up one's citizenship for another is not something I'd do. Korean citizenship and permanent residency are not the same thing, but the former serve[d/s] as the latter for a few determined Westerners – and a lot more anonymous Joes and Janes]. In the absence of a permanent residency, many of the people took up the citizenship to avoid having to renew the “Alien Card” every year, to be able to buy land – until not so long ago it wasn’t exactly easy for foreigners – pay fewer taxes [in the case of "entertainers"], etc…

But giving up one’s citizenship for another is not something I’d do.

]]> By: your mum http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/#comment-30523 your mum Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:20:27 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2557#comment-30523 What about Robert Halley and that German bloke who appears on TV dramas from time to time? Aren't they Korean citizens? What about Robert Halley and that German bloke who appears on TV dramas from time to time? Aren’t they Korean citizens?

]]> By: sanshinseon http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/#comment-30520 sanshinseon Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:11:49 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2557#comment-30520 As implied or said by several above, there are several "Catch-22" provisions in granting those true-permanent-residency visas, and it's not accidental. The Korean government really has no intention of giving them to anyone except women who marry Korean men and the Chinese who were born here but still retain Taiwanese citizenship (mostly not by their choice). The LAWS as published in the official books clearly permits it for many of us, but the "catches" come in in the immigration official's administrative interpretation of those laws, in which they are free to be quite creative (a Confucian tradition). Xenophobia and non-globalization continue to be the rule. I've attempted to get such a true-permanent-residency visa several times, but even though I've been here for 21 years and have plenty income, No Dice. As implied or said by several above, there are several “Catch-22″ provisions in granting those true-permanent-residency visas, and it’s not accidental. The Korean government really has no intention of giving them to anyone except women who marry Korean men and the Chinese who were born here but still retain Taiwanese citizenship (mostly not by their choice).

The LAWS as published in the official books clearly permits it for many of us, but the “catches” come in in the immigration official’s administrative interpretation of those laws, in which they are free to be quite creative (a Confucian tradition). Xenophobia and non-globalization continue to be the rule.

I’ve attempted to get such a true-permanent-residency visa several times, but even though I’ve been here for 21 years and have plenty income, No Dice.

]]> By: Mizar5 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/#comment-30512 Mizar5 Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:51:09 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2557#comment-30512 Funny but all the news exposes on "international marriages" are saying that foreign brides often have their passports confiscated by the husband's family to prevent them from running away. Once their visas expire they are here illegally. Here in Korea, they also forfeit the rights to their own children. What a great prize Korean citizenship is! Funny but all the news exposes on “international marriages” are saying that foreign brides often have their passports confiscated by the husband’s family to prevent them from running away. Once their visas expire they are here illegally. Here in Korea, they also forfeit the rights to their own children. What a great prize Korean citizenship is!

]]> By: dda http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/#comment-30506 dda Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:07:30 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2557#comment-30506 60 million seems a bit high – but would be a could discrimination tool to keep the EFLers out – as it represents 5 million per month [although after taxes you'll prolly get only around 4...], and not too many salaried Koreans earn this much. Usually, foreign expats [as opposed to locally hired] make this much or [much] more, so this could be a sign. Setting the bar this high would be effectively discriminative. Well, I am interested in finding out – not for me, I've spent enough time in Korea to last me a lifetime – how this F5 thing works out. Direct experience – as opposed to I heard that..., I read that... since we know that theory and practice in Korea don't mix too well – would be enlightning. 60 million seems a bit high – but would be a could discrimination tool to keep the EFLers out – as it represents 5 million per month [although after taxes you'll prolly get only around 4...], and not too many salaried Koreans earn this much. Usually, foreign expats [as opposed to locally hired] make this much or [much] more, so this could be a sign. Setting the bar this high would be effectively discriminative.

Well, I am interested in finding out – not for me, I’ve spent enough time in Korea to last me a lifetime – how this F5 thing works out. Direct experience – as opposed to I heard that…, I read that… since we know that theory and practice in Korea don’t mix too well – would be enlightning.

]]> By: gbevers http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/#comment-30502 gbevers Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:21:49 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2557#comment-30502 MJ, The law is very vague and confusing, as usual, but I wonder if you might be confusing two categories of people who are elligible for premanent residency (F5 visa)? I have read that there is one category of people with certain types of college degrees who can apply for an F5 visa after living in Korea for three years if they satisfy certain income requirements designated by the Minister of Justice. However, there is another group of people with D7 to E7 visas who can apply for an F5 after living in Korea for five years. Though an income requirement was specifically mentioned for the first group, the wording for the second group was vague, saying only that they had to be able to support themselves and their dependents. So I wonder if the 60-million-plus salary was only meant for the 3-year-residency group? Personally, I have never heard of an E2 visa holder making 60 million won a year. I certainly do not. MJ,

The law is very vague and confusing, as usual, but I wonder if you might be confusing two categories of people who are elligible for premanent residency (F5 visa)?

I have read that there is one category of people with certain types of college degrees who can apply for an F5 visa after living in Korea for three years if they satisfy certain income requirements designated by the Minister of Justice. However, there is another group of people with D7 to E7 visas who can apply for an F5 after living in Korea for five years. Though an income requirement was specifically mentioned for the first group, the wording for the second group was vague, saying only that they had to be able to support themselves and their dependents. So I wonder if the 60-million-plus salary was only meant for the 3-year-residency group? Personally, I have never heard of an E2 visa holder making 60 million won a year. I certainly do not.

]]> By: hardyandtiny http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/#comment-30496 hardyandtiny Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:46:51 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2557#comment-30496 All foreigners should be given porn site ID numbers. All foreigners should be given porn site ID numbers.

]]> By: MJ http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/#comment-30495 MJ Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:45:22 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2557#comment-30495 permanent residence DOES exist BUT, they've set the bar quite high. i believe you have to be in the country for a period of no less than 5 years (used to be 6) and be earning a substantial amount of money (60 mil. plus, i think). also, you have to be with the same company for the whole period. i.e. if you've been in the country for 5 years but switched jobs at the 4.5 year mark, forget it. you start from zero again. my friend had this experience. speaking as a person married to a korean national, i can say that the government HAS made things better for us. anyone with an F2 visa is free to work without filing paperwork at immigration. have to give the immigration people kudos for that. but... i guess the kudos should stop there. immigration is still messed up, as we all know........ never heard of the F5 before. what's that? permanent residence DOES exist BUT, they’ve set the bar quite high. i believe you have to be in the country for a period of no less than 5 years (used to be 6) and be earning a substantial amount of money (60 mil. plus, i think). also, you have to be with the same company for the whole period. i.e. if you’ve been in the country for 5 years but switched jobs at the 4.5 year mark, forget it. you start from zero again. my friend had this experience.

speaking as a person married to a korean national, i can say that the government HAS made things better for us. anyone with an F2 visa is free to work without filing paperwork at immigration. have to give the immigration people kudos for that.

but… i guess the kudos should stop there. immigration is still messed up, as we all know…….. never heard of the F5 before. what’s that?

]]> By: gbevers http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/03/11/no-discrimination-here/#comment-30486 gbevers Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:14:48 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2557#comment-30486 <blockquote>The ministry also said that under current immigration laws, a foreign national can be hired without any constraints and those that have lived more than two years in the country are eligible to apply for permanent residency status.</blockquote> Since when are foreign nationals permitted to apply for permanent residency status after two years of residence? Does that mean foreign nationals married to Koreans, specially, foreign national women married to Korean men? No restraints on hiring foreign nationals? Com'on!

The ministry also said that under current immigration laws, a foreign national can be hired without any constraints and those that have lived more than two years in the country are eligible to apply for permanent residency status.

Since when are foreign nationals permitted to apply for permanent residency status after two years of residence? Does that mean foreign nationals married to Koreans, specially, foreign national women married to Korean men? No restraints on hiring foreign nationals? Com’on!

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