If this story is true–and it’s so fucked up that I have trouble believing it actually is–then it would qualify as the single most horrifying non-fatality-related thing I’ve ever read in a Korean paper.
So terrible it can’t be true, can it?
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Maybe the girl is mentally disturbed?
She’d almost have to be for that story to be true, right?
Some Korean girls at that age are sometimes totally clueless. They have what men want and they want to profit from their body; they enjoy sex as well. Yet, Korean society prohibit them from doing so.
The girl in this story wanted it. Obviously she is not a normal girl. She has no parental control whatsoever. She goes to a motel at 16? End of story.
What happened there and what ensued all sound like consensual sex to me. Now, she pretends that she is a victim. Why didn’t she scream and look angry? Instead, she gave a look of confusion and yearning (to have more sex). Three other men sensed what she was saying without saying and gave it to her.
She was asking for it.
A trailer park bunny, she was. Going around the neighborhood and giving men what they wanted. One day, she suddenly decided to report everyone to police, saying she had been drugged, enticed, coaxed, misled and otherwise compensated to having sex with them.
Four men at sixteen. Busy as a bee.
She is having fun, calling men “beasts”. A trailer park bunny, she was. As crude, earthy and smelly as any of Busan Texas street girls.
Let’s not waste our time on this hussy.
Robert, you as a Canadien, has to answer for this, http://www.dkbnews.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=headlinenews&no=6383
Very terrible. Very, very disturbing images. Canadiens are still in stone ages? Is money so important? Look at the seal escaping from slaughter in the last picture. Look at his eyes. For him, we are the beasts.
“Robert, you as a Canadien, has to answer for this”
Blogger extrodiinaire and an NHLer! Amazing!
In all serousness now…Sealing is a nasty nasty busniess. I think awareness will be the key for action in the future.
Oh and hi. Been lurking for quite some time now and finally decided to step up and make a comment. Why this post? I have no idea…..
Baduk, I’m from Long Island. Which is in New York. I’ve never even been to Canada. Or played for the Canadiens. Or the Islanders.
I was a Hartford Whalers fan, though. Like back when they had Ron Francis and Kevin Dineen. And Mike Liut.
Anyway, we Americans don’t club baby seals. We club people.
Oh, BTW, Baduk, I thought of you as I read this.
Robert,
I thought you were a Canadian(finally got the spelling right.
Where in Long Island? I went to StonyBrook for my grad degree(in Chemistry).
I’m from East Islip. South Shore. About 40 minutes away from Stony Brook. Used to like Port Jeff a lot.
In other words, Baduk, they “slipped her the sperms”, right?
“Some Korean girls at that age are sometimes totally clueless. They have what men want and they want to profit from their body; they enjoy sex as well. Yet, Korean society prohibit them from doing so.
The girl in this story wanted it. Obviously she is not a normal girl. She has no parental control whatsoever. She goes to a motel at 16? End of story.
What happened there and what ensued all sound like consensual sex to me. Now, she pretends that she is a victim. Why didn’t she scream and look angry? Instead, she gave a look of confusion and yearning (to have more sex). Three other men sensed what she was saying without saying and gave it to her.
She was asking for it.”
Wow. Am I reading this right? Are you serious?
This seems like the attitude of someone who passively condones rape.
or perhaps I have just been trolled…
Of course it’s true. Or maybe it’s not. But it could very well be true.
How many times have utterly young, innocent Korean women thrown themselves all over the shoulders of men twice their age?
It’s part of the culture.
Read Simon Winchester’s book “Walk Through The Land of Miracles.” Two young girls, barely 20 years old, show up at his hotel room and 3pm and start taking their clothes off. Of course, being the consummate “English gentlemen” he sends the discouraged girls packing.
Korean men raise the women to be submissive, fawning, and utterly incapable of self-defence, and so they are.
And Korean society raises millions of people with no common sense whatsover.
These are the most naive people on Earth!
I’m with Random on this one. Why the rush to convict the VICTIM here?
Baduk’s being right on Dr Hwang’s scam does not give him special powers or carte blanche to spew conjecture.
Yankabroad–I’m glad to see the art of making smug, sweeping cultural generalizations isn’t a monopoly of us right-wing nutjobs.
Slim,
C’mon. A sixteen year old girl goes to a motel? C’mon. There is no normal sixteen year old Korean girl who would do this.
Many of these shocking sex stories from Korean press, like a boyfriend’s father raping a girl, etc, etc( too sordid for me to mention), are concocted by reporters. A soft porn to sell papers.
If you actually meet this girl, you will know what kind of girl she is. A trailer park bunny.
An aspring hooker-wannbe.
You see bunch of them in slums of any big cities in the US. If the story was about a black teenager in Detroit, you will say, “C’mon, man”.
Busan has slum areas and lots of hookers. They have daughters, who will follow their mother’s profession.
The reporter writes about them as normal people. They are not. Would you call a drug-crazied hooker a normal person?
I see no mention of a motel anywhere… while I question her judgement in meeting strangers and getting drunk with them… Saying ‘She was asking for it.’ is morally reprehensible. That’s the equivalent of saying ‘she has a vagina and thus deserves to be raped’.
“Baduk’s being right on Dr Hwang’s scam does not give him special powers or carte blanche to spew conjecture. ”
BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL!
I SPEW … CONJECTURE!
Sorry, I couldn’t help it. That made me giggle when I read that.
random guy–About the motel, read the Korean-language report linked in Nomad’s comments. When she met the first guy, they were supposed to see a movie, but the guy instead told her that “they could watch a movie in a motel, too.” She was then “lured” back to a motel, and raped when he scared her by claiming he was a gangster.
This is probably what went down.
1) She advertized herself on the internet as “wonjogyoje”(a call-girl).
2) She had a customer. She may have gotten paid but that part was editted out by the reporter.
3) She goes to a pharmacy and lures the technician to the backroom saying “I have a secret to tell you”. She entices him to have sex. Later, her boyfriend extols money from the technician, the real victim.
4) She had another customer. But, this time, the customer did not pay and took her stuff.
5) So, she decided to report this to the police. On the way to the station, she had another customer, the taxi driver.
At the station, there was a reporter waiting. Korean newspaper reporters hang out at the police station to write about shocking expose about human conditions. Sex sells. When he saw this young girl walking in, he jumped at the chance. He wrote a semi-fiction form of a soft porn deleting details about what she had done. He “sanitizes” the story to show her as a “virgin” damaged by male lust. The readers eat this up, a free porn.
When I first read this story, it was only about the pharmacy technician raping her. Now, it has grown to involve another man and the taxi driver.
A serial porn writer at work.
I had a previous gf who was kind of a “psycho-magnet”. She was raped when she was 16, and then experienced a history of sexual assault/harassments. Not outright rape but stuff along the lines of a guy pinning her down and grabbing her tits or a manager asking for oral favors, etc. It really bothered me a lot but it helped me to understand such issues from a woman’s perspective.
She said that during the course of a sexual assault, she would just “mentally freeze”. Meaning unable to scream, yell, fight back and just doing stuff you would think a woman would normally do under such circumstance. The fear has a paralyzing effect.
I noticed that she had this wierd tendency to attract guys who would be scumbags. It happened ALL the time. There was a certain vibe she gave off, a carefree flirtatious nature, and a way of speaking and a sense of humor that was more on a guy’s wavelength. She was even kind of a nymphomaniac.
So she’s flirtatious and likes guys a lot. Scumbag probably see that as an open invitation to take advantage of her. But no matter how flirtatious or horny a woman is, no woman wants to be sexually harrassed, assaulted or raped. No woman ever “asks” for it.
She says she was raped. So, we have to automatically accept her words? Many women say “rape” when it was consensual. Ask Kobe Bryant.
Random guy, the korean article. http://news.naver.com/news/read.php?mode=LSD&office_id=020&article_id=0000339276§ion_id=102&menu_id=102
Robert, thanks for the clarification, I only skimmed through the English version.
Last summer, a younger friend of mine left with someone to go to a hotel to because he wanted to ‘talk’. Long story short, he took advantage of her. She was intoxicated and given the impairment of judgement, she believed him when he promised her nothing would happen.
1. Does this make her an aspiring hooker wannabe?
2. Does this justify her being raped?
3. Does the scenario described occur when girls are intimidated into having sex?
No. NO. and Yes.
Age and naivety go hand in hand. Granted, the girl in the news story showed poor judgement. However, I do not understand the need to cast negative aspersions on her character. The sentiment Baduk expresses on this issue (She’s a dirty girl and deserved it.) is not factually bound but even as an opinion it disgusts me.
Nobody deserves to be raped.
Just think about Kobe. A girl comes into his room and freely takes off her clothes and begging for it. A young white ass. He took it.
She asked for several millions. He refused to pay.
She cried “Rrrape”.
Unsophisticated white people were mad. “I don’t care how great a basketball player Kobe is. He has no right to go around raping white women”, etc, etc.
Kobe paid dearly.
Baduk, please
What happened between a groupie and a NBA star is different from a 16 year old girl and a guy she met from the internet. Completely different.
random guy,
1) Do you admit that there are sixteen year old hookers in Korea?
2) Do you know any of Korean reporters who write these “human interest stories”?
3) What sells newspapers? Who pays these reporters?
You do the math.
I do not know of any NORMAL sixteen year old Korean girl who will step into a motel. This is a no-no. A big No-No in Korea. Similar to a teenager going to a gay bar in the US. Even if he says he only went there for a drink.
The difference between you and me are that I know Korean society better. At least, I think I do.
bluejives,
I have brought in Kobe story to illustrate the point that some women and white folks were “biased”. As soon as they heard about Kobe, they assumed the worst and shouting “Kill Kobe, the nigger who raped a white virgin”.
The same thing here. You guys are all assuming the sixteen year old girl in the story is “a virgin” and “raped” as she says. What gives you the right to ASSUME this? Just because the newspaper says?
I do not believe everything I read in the paper. I rather look for clues. “Motel” was a clue. “Cell phone”, “computer chat”, “her friend threatening the pharm tech”, etc… I come to the conclusion that she was a hooker.
I am about 90% confident about this.
Baduk,
1. Are there 16 year old girls who fall into prostitution? Yes. Is this the case here? I don’t know.. but you seem to jump at the opportunity to call it that.
2. Personally or in general? While Korean Journalism is sensationalist at times… I don’t think they go out of their way to go the Geraldo route all the time.
3. News. Graphic news. Stuff that people, like yourself, can read and shake their heads in derision at… these poor souls who obviously lead sinful lives and deserve anything coming at them.
What is NORMAL for you? For the sake of argument, let’s say she is a prostitute who is scheming to take money from all these johns. Do you really think she’d go to the cops with this mess and then publicize it that she puts out?
I think you’d like to think you know Korean society better than I do, but honestly, when’s the last time you lived in Korea for an extended period of time? When you were stationed for a year down in Chinhae?
Stereotyping, we all do in our heads.
If she was a black teenager in Detroit, you would have read the story in different light. The problem is that you have an image of this sixteen year old Korean girl in your head – a innocent, baby-like, vulnerable, little girl who is lost in the world.
If you meet her, she could have thick lip stick and a skirt so short that it barely covers her ass(no panties). Then, you start equating her to the Detroit teen.
You ASSUME the stereotype and you end up with a wrong conclusion.
I do it too.
If she was a black teenager in Detroit, I still wouldn’t assume that she was a teenage prostitute.
Are you implying that all black girls from Detroit who make rape allegations are really just hookers who got ripped off by their johns?
Your mind works in mysterious ways.
I don’t make any assumptions in these matters. On the other hand, you’ve made quite a few in this case…
ie. “If you meet her, she could have thick lip stick and a skirt so short that it barely covers her ass(no panties).”
A person’s clothing or accoutrements does not dictate anything. Girls in Korea wear short skirts. Are you saying they are all prostitutes or want to get laid 24/7? Get a dose of reality guy. You insult a large percentage of Korean girls with these antiquated values based on dress and appearance.
random guy,
You are giving too much credibility to Korean newspapers. Nobody is arrested. Nobody will be. No charges will be filed.
This story is a fiction to begin with. As I said, no NORMAL teenager girl steps into a motel in Korea. Just ask around. Just learn about Korea.
These stories are just soft porn concocted by newspaper reporters to boost the circulation. Because a self-respecting Korean “gentleman” cannot buy a men’s magazine and bring to his house, he reads these stories and vicariously lives through the characters in the story. As the pharm tech who took the advantage of the girl. Or, even as her friend who threatens the pharm tech and extols the money.
A soft porn feeding masses of middle-aged men who need a shocking story like this to get going. Korean newspapers have been doing this ever since the start. Yellow journalism sells papers and brings money.
Sex sells.
“부산 북부경찰서는 2일 청소년 성보호법 위반 혐의 등으로 택시 운전사 정 씨와 오락실 종업원 김 씨에 대해 구속영장을 신청하고 이 씨는 수배했다. 최 씨도 공갈혐의로 불구속 입건됐다. 약국 종업원 박 씨는 송 양 측과 합의하고 송 양이 고소를 취하해 풀려났다.”
The police has filed the charges. Not for a rape but for having sex with a minor.(Doesn’t this give you a clue?)
The pharm tech made a deal with Miss Song and got released? WTF! This tells me that there was no rape. Not even sex. If he had sex with Song in any form, then he would come under the “having sex with a minor”.
It only points to the conclusion that the pharm tech did not do anything. The hooker’s boyfriend wanted to blackmail the tech, probably because the tech has a steady, well-paying job. The part about him raping the teen is a fabrication. A total fiction!
This story examplifies Korean newspaper and media in general; fly-by-night reporters exciting readers by writing a porn.
You said it yourself…
“I noticed that she had this wierd tendency to attract guys who would be scumbags. It happened ALL the time.”
- bluejives on HIS previous girlfriend.
Sorry, but am I the only one who connects the dots?
(I would never call you a scumbag — certainly not when you seem willing to do so yourself)
Based on what the Korean report said, I don’t think that she was the best kind of person. She was only 16 but went out with 26 year old man! Although she hardly knew the man, she went to the motel room with him. She told her story to the older men, who she had no clue they really were. Those men took advantage of her mentally disturbing situation and eventually assaulted her. She seemed immature and even idiotic.
It might be right (like Baduk said) that she may not be “normal sixteen year old Korean girl” by any means. However, no matter what she is or who she is, rape is a serious crime, which could leave the life-time trauma to the victim (as BJ points out). That being said, the rapist and the men (who assaulted her) should be prosecuted and serve their time in jail. End of story.
Why does it matter whether or not she was a “normal sixteen year old Korean girl”? Does this mean that those women who fall outside the boundary of “noraml” deserve to be raped? What should a “normal sixteen year old Korean girl” be like any way? Says who and on what standards? Hasn’t anyone heard of, “no means no”? So fucking clueless is Baduk, not the girl. “no NORMAL teenager girl steps into a motel in Korea. Just ask around. Just learn about Korea.” What the fuck do you know about korea?? Whether the rapes happened in Korea, US, Africa or any other place in the world, knwoing about Korea does not give anyone the right to patronize the teenage girl. Regardless of whether the story is true or not (I grant that Korean media may have sensationalized the incidence by embellishing it to sell papers), it is disturbing, frustrating and deplorable to read comments like those made by baduk. Can we thinking human beings do better than that?
I applaud baduk for being the only one here courageous enough to tell the truth about that little floozified tartlet. The rest of you feminista panzies have no sympathy for the so-called “rapists” in this story, and it’s obviously a product of you being brainwashed by western culture. If you had been paying attention in Confucian class, you would know that a woman who says no is like a tree that refuses to fall. You keep on chopping and chopping and groping and forcing until that tree falls. It’s the Korean way.
By definition, the tree is asking to be chopped down and assaulted just by existing in the same environment as a healthy, virulent Korean lumberjack. When that underage hooker sent the first email to the 25-year old man on line, she was asking for it. When she went to the pharmacy and talked to the pharmacist, she was asking for it. When she went to the bar and drank, she was asking for it. And finally when she got in the taxi, she was asking for it. Clearly, by virtue of a simple conversation with all the above men, she was asking to be raped. Why the police are involved in this is beyond comprehension for me and my pal baduk.
And while we’re on the topic, what’s with all the Korean animosity toward Japan? Wasn’t Korea in 1910 pretty much like that little 16-year old slut? She was flaunting her short Korean skirt and no panties all over Asia, just asking for a big, manly Japan to take it to a motel and uh…occupy it.
Obviously Korea was not a “normal” country anyway. She goes trying to trade and interact with Japan, and then pretends she is a victim when Japan takes what is rightfully his? Why didn’t Korea scream and look angry? Instead she gave a look of confusion and yearning (to have more invasions).
A trailer park bunny, she was. Going around Asia and giving any King what they wanted. One day, she suddenly decided to report everyone to the UN, saying she had been drugged, enticed, coaxed, misled and otherwise compensated to being invaded by them.
10,000 invasions at sixteen. Busy as a bee.
Korea was having fun, calling China and Japan “beasts”. A trailer park bunny, she was. As crude, earthy and smelly as any of Busan Texas street girls.
Let’s not waste our time on this Korean hussy, are you with me baduk?
Many of these shocking invasion stories from Korean press, are concocted by reporters. A soft porn to sell papers. Korea wanted to be invaded by its neighbors, and anyone believing Korea was a “victim” of any aggression by its neighbors needs to know the truth from baduk.
She wanted it.
Sorry dda, I missed your post. Great minds think alike and all….
Baduk wrote:
I do not believe everything I read in the paper. I rather look for clues. “Motel” was a clue. “Cell phone”, “computer chat”, “her friend threatening the pharm tech”, etc… I come to the conclusion that she was a hooker.
Another “clue” is that she is sixteen years old…probably fifteen in actual age. Yeah, there’s a good chance that she might be a screwed-up person to begin with, but SHE’S ONLY FIFTEEN and that’s exactly why we have sex-with-minors laws to protect people who are too young and immature to know enough about how to take care of themselves in the world yet. Baduk, you are exhibiting the classic distortion of neo-Confucianism whereby the woman is to blame for anything bad (at least of this nature) that happens to her. What about the predators who were knowingly seeking sex with a fifteen-year-old (whether by force or even consensually, as you suggest)?
Teenagers, particularly those without proper adult guidance, are walking zones of naïvete. They are tractable and some are overly trusting; in other words, they can put too much faith in the words of more savvy people and end up in situations they didn’t want. That doesn’t mean “they asked for it,” it means that the other person engineered it.
It’s entirely possible your version is right: by your mind going toward, “Oh, this girl is probably selling it on the Internet,” you may have unlocked the story. But when I read it, my mind went toward, “Yeah, with the sexual predators running around, this makes sense.” Maybe I’m being manipulated by the press (you are right about some of the things they do).
badukduk said
“This story is a fiction to begin with. As I said, no NORMAL teenager girl steps into a motel in Korea. Just ask around. Just learn about Korea.”
yeah, this kind of girls exist only in Kim Ki-duk’s mind.
iloveblueballs, that was pretty good.
slim wrote:
Ha ha, let’s all have a good laugh at Bluejives expense.
But more seriously, connecting the dots like that, if that is your final answer, is a tad overly simplistic, especially because “scumbag” is not the kind of personality emanating from Bleujives.
From that story—if it’s true, since Baduk has me questioning everything I read now—I gather that Bluejives is someone who likes to rescue people. Save them. Or at least that was the case with this girl.
I only wonder where the girl’s partents were during all this. I wish the girl had parents who were more concerned with her.
R. Elgin, ditto my friend.
You guys are assuming that she is an average girl, misled but still not a wakco. I think she is.
Why don’t you extend the same degree of understanding for those men? The pharmacy technician, for example. Do you think it is a normal behavior for a pharmacy tech to rape a customer who came to buy a pill? Why don’t you give him a chance to explain?
Just because this girl says he raped her, you are ASSuming that he raped her. The guy was never given a chance to explain himself.
He made a deal with the girl and she dropped the charges? Don’t you smell something? Was that a rape in the first place?
You know what I think, this is another Hwang. The reporter or the girl made up the sensational story about her getting raped and then raped again when she went to a pharmacy. What a men’s magazine confession story!
The reporter wanted a story to print. But, now it has gone national. Everybody is outraged and people want names:the name of the pharmacy and the name of the tech. People are afraid that the same thing may happen to their daughters when they go to the pharmacy.
The reporter now has to supply details. So, he lied even more. He made a cock-and-bull stories about how she got raped again by another older man and the cab driver. And, how her boyfriend started to blackmail the tech.
Meanwhile, the tech is released from all wrongdoing. Therefore, the reporter cannot release the name of the person or the pharmacy. The perfect cover up by confusion. He float other shocking rape stories and details so that the pharmacy could be forgotten.
I smell heavy fabrication. Don’t you?
Watch the movie, “Disclosure”, if you have not. Women frequently use “rape” as a weapon.
Again, I must say that your mental picture of this girl, who had sex with four men and her friend engaged in blackmail, could be totally on the left field. These days, girls grow up fast. At sixteen, she may be thinking like a 32 year old biachi.
iloveblueballs, heh. i must be tired cause i almost took you seriously for a second. Here I was thinking.. ‘What a jackass.’ Oops!
It’s funny how a singular occurrence in a movie equates to ‘frequently’.
i think it’s wise for people to truly question whether or not this is true and to what extent that it is.
if everything really did happen as reported, then you seriously do have to wonder how much of it happened because of something this girl failed to do as far as protecting herself from getting into such situations over and over again in the timespace that is reported.
i would agree with the notion that middle and high school girls are probably ignorant of the intentions of older men and sex, but i do know there is a proportion of them who have used this combination, along with their youthfulness, to get money, clothes or designer purses.
we can’t rule out the possibility that this is one such girl based on the fact that she found herself in such situations as many times as she did–it certainly makes me wonder and she loses some credibility in my eyes.
i’m not saying the investigation should be dropped, but i saying we need to remember all this in the process.
a similar situation happened in my part of the upper Midwest USA about a year ago when a university student staged her own disappearance and claimed she was attacked, bound and gagged. it didn’t take long for police to find out what really happened and needless to say, she was commited to a pysch ward shortly after her confession.
Baduk wrote:
You guys are assuming that she is an average girl, misled but still not a wakco. I think she is.
God forbid anything were to happen to your daughter, your granddaughter, your niece, etc., but if it did, I hope in the aftermath they don’t encounter someone like you.
Why don’t you extend the same degree of understanding for those men?
Baduk, even if you’re right, these are men who knowingly had sex with a minor. How much understanding do they deserve? They’re either rapists or commiters of sexual assault, or they seek underage girls to have sex with.
The pharmacy technician, for example. Do you think it is a normal behavior for a pharmacy tech to rape a customer who came to buy a pill? Why don’t you give him a chance to explain?
Do you think it’s normal behavior for a pharmacy tech to engage in sex with minors? Either way, Baduk, they are people who sought to take advantage of this girl—whether she’s a normal girl, a lonely girl, a mentally ill girl, a confused girl, or a slut. She’s underage and therefore the law protects her.
He made a deal with the girl and she dropped the charges? Don’t you smell something? Was that a rape in the first place?
The friend extorting money from her can exacerbate that. One side dropping the charges against another can also mean charges dropped against you.
You know what I think, this is another Hwang. The reporter or the girl made up the sensational story about her getting raped and then raped again when she went to a pharmacy. What a men’s magazine confession story!
Maybe you need to read fewer of these magazines. You’re starting to see sluts everywhere.
The reporter wanted a story to print. But, now it has gone national. Everybody is outraged and people want names:the name of the pharmacy and the name of the tech. People are afraid that the same thing may happen to their daughters when they go to the pharmacy.
The reporter now has to supply details. So, he lied even more. He made a cock-and-bull stories about how she got raped again by another older man and the cab driver. And, how her boyfriend started to blackmail the tech.
So he’s Korea’s Jason Blair. Or one of Korea’s Jason Blairs. Maybe you’re right. But until it turns out that Dolly is fake, I’m going to take your prognostications with a grain of salt. Even if you are right that this girl was doing something consentual, it’s still a serious crime what the men did.
I smell heavy fabrication. Don’t you?
I smell bourbon.
Jodi, I agree that caution needs to be taken in any investigation. That is the job of the police, after all. But here Baduk has already decided pretty much that that’s what it is, with no evidence other than his speculation and charges being dropped against the pharm guy.
As I have said several times now, even if it turns out this girl did willingly consent and she made up the story later, the fact remains that these several men engaged in sex with a minor. There are laws against that for a reason.
When you hear a grown man having a sex with a sixteen year old girl, you automatically assume that the man is a predator. I am just questioning if that ASSumption is a correct one.
We do not know this girl. She may have done this many times before. She drinks a lot for a regular sixteen year old. She frequently passes out and that was the reason she got raped the third and the fourth time.
All I am asking is to have an open mind till all details come in. Don’t jump the gun based on your prejudice. For me, I found that her story has too many holes to be trusted. Motel, pharmacy tech, $540 stolen, her boyfriend, cab driver, the reporter switching details, etc..
Conflicting reports are coming in. The original article only mentioned the motel raping and the pharm tech. The second article mentions the third and the fourth rapes and her making a deal not to press charges against the tech. A new article that I have read states that the tech is still charged.
I have the strong feeling that when you get the whole story, if ever, you will find out that she is not what you imagined.
Kushibo, just wondering, but what is the age of consent in Korea? (without parental permission of course)
I read somewhere it was 15, but I found that hard to believe.
When you hear a grown man having a sex with a sixteen year old girl,
You mean like through the wall at the yogwan?
you automatically assume that the man is a predator. I am just questioning if that ASSumption is a correct one.
First off, sixteen in Korea is fifteen in reality. A man who is willingly seeking to have sex with a fifteen-year-old girl is a statutory rapist by definition. Yes, a predator of sorts.
We do not know this girl. She may have done this many times before. She drinks a lot for a regular sixteen year old. She frequently passes out and that was the reason she got raped the third and the fourth time.
Even if all this is true, does this excuse the actions of the men who engaged in statutory rape, having sex with a minor? They, the adults, are the ones who are legally required, and whom society expects, to know better.
All I am asking is to have an open mind till all details come in. Don’t jump the gun based on your prejudice. For me, I found that her story has too many holes to be trusted. Motel, pharmacy tech, $540 stolen, her boyfriend, cab driver, the reporter switching details, etc..
Baduk, I’m have kept an open mind and acknowledged that it’s possible your side is correct. But even in that case, are these men victims? Hell, no.
I have the strong feeling that when you get the whole story, if ever, you will find out that she is not what you imagined.
I have imagined that there could be all kinds of things up with this girl, and I think it’s likely one of them will be true. But for the men, whether they forced themselves on the girl or she consented, they are either rapists or statutory rapists who had sex with a minor.
Baduk, if you don’t get that, you should put down the pornographic true crime mags: if some fifteen-year-old asks Mr. Baduk to have sex with her, and you do, and you get arrested, no court will buy the story that she seduced you with her charms and you couldn’t resist. You can: the thought that she is underage should be setting off alarm bells in your head. Why didn’t it with these men?
Kushibo,
You are assuming that she wears a badge that reads “I am sixteen years old. Don’t have sex with me.”
And, for your information, when a Korean newspaper writes about anyone’s age, “만으로” applies. What I mean is that Korean official age is the same age system that Americans use.
She “says” she was raped or had sex with these men. That is all we know.
Kushibo, just wondering, but what is the age of consent in Korea? (without parental permission of course)
I read somewhere it was 15, but I found that hard to believe.
I’m not a lawyer, but I play one on TV. I believe the consent age is 19, though I’m not certain. It may be lower, or may have been lower in the past.
Also, I’m not entirely sure I’m using the term “statutory rape” in a legally correct way. Brendon’s a lawyer, he might know.
“She “says” she was raped or had sex with these men. That is all we know.”
Then where do you get the three pages of fiction you just posted over the past several hours?
Yonhap news agency which reported this news already have moved it out of the front page. I am of the opinion if this were a reliable story they would have kept it in the front page longer.
I had bad experiences with Yonhap before. One of their ground breaking news during the Hwang debacle turned out to be a baseless fabrication. Their top news story that SNU absolved Hwang of any wrongdoing was a lie written by their reporter.
You are assuming that she wears a badge that reads “I am sixteen years old. Don’t have sex with me.”
That’s why, whenever you have sex with strangers, especially young-looking strangers, you should ask how old they are. You should know that, since judging by your intimate knowledge of how teenage girls engage in sex with adult men, you probably engage in this practice a lot.
And, for your information, when a Korean newspaper writes about anyone’s age, “만으로” applies. What I mean is that Korean official age is the same age system that Americans use.
Every time I’ve been in the newspaper (I run a crime syndicate and I get written up a lot) and they list my age, it has always been “Korean age.” I hate that.
She “says” she was raped or had sex with these men. That is all we know.
And either way it was illegal and a bad thing to do. No sympathy for Mr. Viagra.
Baduk wrote:
Yonhap news agency which reported this news already have moved it out of the front page.
Because it is more important than the national railway strike.
I am of the opinion if this were a reliable story they would have kept it in the front page longer.
This is a country of nearly 50 million people. Other news happens. Maybe you have been reading the true crime mags too much and this really is what you think is important or all that happens in Korea.
I had bad experiences with Yonhap before. One of their ground breaking news during the Hwang debacle turned out to be a baseless fabrication. Their top news story that SNU absolved Hwang of any wrongdoing was a lie written by their reporter.
Yes, it is possible that the entire report is fabricated. They can go check it out with the police in Pusan quite easily. But, the story not still being on the front page some 24 hours later is not necessarily a sign of that.
Some of the comments here are more unbelievable than the initial story. It’s not a matter of whether the teenager was “asking for it” or not, or how ostensibly grown men should be understood in their behavior. Korea, like Japan, fetishizes schoolgirls and underage women, which is a huge blight on both societies. It’s really past due for Korea to get with the program and protect its youth.
The S.K. government is less than useless in education and enforcement. What is the Ministry of Gender Equality doing? It has a Women’s Rights Promotion Bureau that supposedly protects women in prostitution and deals with domestic violence and sexual crimes, but I’ve never seen any evidence of this. Likewise law enforcement here, which is a farce–the “crackdowns” on prostitution that target one or two areas when there are scores of red light districts in the country.
Korean women are done an injustice in this society, and stories like this are too common.
Michael…shhhhhhhhhhhhh. As Bluejives taught me recently, all whiteys pointing out any of the painful realities regarding the status of women in modern Korean society are just “parasitic opportunists” whose deep-seated inferiority complex compels them to malign and bash the noble Korean male.
In addition, you’re obviously repeating such criticisms only because it “makes you look better to your Korean spouse” and because you are sorely lacking “intrinsic merits” and you need to bash strangers to compensate for that fact.
BJ would also ask that you please drop the act Michael. Your statement about the fetishization of schoolgirls and treatment of women has nothing to do with your genuine concern for Korean females. Your sweeping generalizations about Korean men and Korean society are only an attempt for you to buttress your own superiority-inferiority complex, and are an insult to BJ’s father and Korean men everywhere.
Finally, don’t be too surprised if Koreans grow sick and tired of you and your waeguk-nom tactics of telling the truth. By speaking openly about the status and treatment of Korean women, you are only making yourself a target for more hatred by Koreans. Please let all your loser expat friends know this as well, so they’re not tempted to make the same mistake.
Bluejives, did I miss anything? Or did that about cover it? I want to make sure Michael is learnt real good so he won’t make the mistake of talking about Korean gender issues again without your express permission.
LMFAO–brilliant, iheartblueballs.
Can we please try to make points without attacking particular commenters.
That goes for everyone.
Bluejives seems like an intelligent guy and has a sense of humor, I think he might even laugh at iheartblueballs’ comment, since it wasn’t really meanspirited.
I think you’re a little too indulgent when people attack you, Robert, but that’s just my opinion.
It’s encouraging to see that most commenters do not share the misogynist/chauvinist attitude towards rape victims.
I apologize if anyone construed my post as an attack on a particular commenter. Perhaps it was because I was simply quoting said commenter’s words right back to him.
Let BJ have it. There are other fora on the Web where he goes after us “crackers” with no holds barred. He presents himself as relatively tame and reasonable here, although you can see how difficult it is for him to hide his contempt.
Dogbert wrote of Bluejives:
He presents himself as relatively tame and reasonable here, although you can see how difficult it is for him to hide his contempt.
And this makes him different from half the other commenters in the Korea-related blogosphere how? (I mean, besides the object of the contempt.)
In fairness to Baduk, this news story does seem contrived and far-fetched. Also, people who don’t use common sense are putting themselves at more risk for crimes.
But Baduk’s use of phrases like “trailer park bunny” and “She was asking for it” is too sexist.
Thanks, Mi Hwa, for the first vote of confidence that I could be right about this story. I truly appreciate it especially coming from a female.
I had to use those phrases because most commentors automatically assumed the girl is “a virgin raped” and I had to bring analogy in the Western world to balance the view. Incidentally, you left out “a black teenager in Detroit” which can be construed as racist and sexist comment.
iheartblueballs,
“all whiteys pointing out any of the painful realities regarding the status of women in modern Korean society are just “parasitic opportunists” whose deep-seated inferiority complex compels them to malign and bash the noble Korean male.”
Great stuff. I loved it. “compels”,”parasitic”,”inferiority”, “bash”,”noble”..
At the same time, you must admit that there are a few whiteys doing exactly that. Not you, but there are some out there. As a KoreanAmerican, I do get this type of “ulterior motive” challenges from other Koreans or even from other KAs. Koreans like to read between the lines. Sometimes, they overdo it.
Thank you, Jodi. This is one of the more intelligent and RELEVANT statements that were made in this thread.
I think this is what Baduk was trying to say himself, except unfortunately, he included a lot of statements which can be construed as sexist.
Predictably, in discussions where gender relation issues are involved, males would tend to express a male-centric POV (the girl was “asking” for it) while females would tend to express a female-centric POV (the girl is a “victim”). Both attempt to shift the blame for the incident upon the other gender. When each side stubbornly insist on adhering to a POV that is naturally aligned with their own gender, it tends to breed cynicism, suspicion, and miscommunication.
Ideally, males must try comprehend such issues from a female perspective. Likewise, females must try to comprehend the issues from a male perspective. Any simpleton can argue from a basis which naturally fits their own gender. It is a selfish approach. But it takes a higher intellectual effort for a female to put herself in a male’s shoes and vice versa. It is more refreshing and that way. It allows us all to put down our guards and avoid all the usual “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” types of communication problems.
Just like in our Korean drinking custom, where you never pour your own drink, but you pour the drink of your partner, and your partner pours your drink (the Confucian principle of Reciprocity), it is my hope that Korean society would take that sort of approach in inter-gender dialogue as they navigate through issues of gender equality.
Blueballs, you seem to have forgotten the time where you gushed like a giddy little schoolgirl over something like this. Here, let me refresh your memory:
It seems pretty painfully obvious what your agenda is. You’re not an impartial advocate of genuine gender equality in Korea. You’re just an expat refugee from Western Feminism who is in Korea to promote Joy Luck Club Feminism and the idea that expats such as yourself are the White Knights in Shining Armor who is here to save the Asian woman from oppressive Asian patriarchy. I think there’s a huge difference.
The news article about the rape contains other wild and tragic stories:
Moral standards seem to be declining in Korea.
I was just thinking that in the past, such incidents were far less common or practically unheard of. Before, Korea was a much more communal society. As Korea becomes much more individualistic, materialistic, and selfish society, people’s sense of moral decency, shared values, and goodwill toward’s a fellow neighbor is bound to suffer. Divorce is now sky-high, another ill which was far less common before. Korea just experienced its first case of a serial killer not too long ago. This is the price Korea pays for rushing headlong in the name of material progress. Koreans really need to start re-examining their values and think about where they are headed.
Mihwa wrote:
In fairness to Baduk, this news story does seem contrived and far-fetched.
In fairness to Baduk’s critics, he thinks that Dolly the sheep is contrived and far-fetched.
Also, people who don’t use common sense are putting themselves at more risk for crimes.
Yes, but she’s FIFTEEN YEARS OLD! The law protects her because she’s not expected to have common sense! She’s not allowed to vote, not allowed to drive, not allowed to live on her own, etc., etc., because the law assumes she’s too immature and too inexperienced in the real world to make weighty decisions on her own. What the hell kind of people would, if Baduk is correct about what she was doing, would willingly get themselves sexually involved in someone in her situation?
But Baduk’s use of phrases like “trailer park bunny” and “She was asking for it” is too sexist.
If he was using them as “performance art,” it may be more forgivable, but I fear he may actually think that way.
By the way, in this comment, where I suggested that Baduk himself may get involved with teenage girls in th is way, I was being ironical: I was trying to demonstrate that someone could look at Baduk and easily jump to outrageous conclusions. Since no one called me on it, I thought I should set the record straight: I don’t have any reason to believe Baduk is such a person.
Funny stuff bj. The reality is that I’ve never met any white males in Korea looking to be knights in shining armor, nor did I care to be one when I was there. What you don’t seem to realize, is that because the modern Korean man sets the bar so low in terms of ideas of gender roles, freedom, and decision-making power accorded their wives…any average Joe Schmo white-bread who has an inkling of equality and respects his girlfriend/wife as a person rather than a chef/maid/spermbank…comes out looking like that knight just by default. Who needs to put any effort into wearing the white armor when Korean men do all the work for us?
Mihwa wrote:
A 55-year-old man was arrested for trying to rape a 90-year-old woman in Seoul.
…
reports about a taxi driver who raped more than 100 women over eight years
Moral standards seem to be declining in Korea.
Moral standards? How about policing standards? Maybe they’re not so much declining as much as they have just been residing in the basement for years and years to begin with.
How can one person rape 100 women over eight years…well, I guess one a month might not provide enough evidence for the police to go on, but for the same thing to happen for eight years… geez?
I was just thinking that in the past, such incidents were far less common or practically unheard of.
Oh, boo hoo. You didn’t blog in the past, is what it was. While you were off in Joisey doing securities work, the world of Korea was chugging along, and the supochu shinmun were reporting all this tabloid stuff without your awareness.
Things happened in the past, but a lot of it didn’t see the light of day. Things like marital unhappiness, which only now is translating into divorce, or serial rape or serial murder, which newspapers are freer to talk about.
Before, Korea was a much more communal society. As Korea becomes much more individualistic, materialistic, and selfish society, people’s sense of moral decency, shared values, and goodwill toward’s a fellow neighbor is bound to suffer.
Oh, boo hoo. Korea has long had elements of individualistism. The in-group/out-group thing is a form of aggregate individualism, with one-person or one-family individualism just being a smaller in-group than before.
Materialism? Are you suggesting that this was a new thing that the yangban never had heard of until the time of the forced treaties or when World War II ended?
Selfish? Neo-confucianism was all about thinking of one’s own self and oneself’s immediate social ties within a greater hierarchy. Inherently selfish.
Divorce is now sky-high, another ill which was far less common before.
Divorce is not the ill, but the cure. People have been stuck in loveless, unhappy, sometimes even violent marriage, because of social propriety. Now that the stigma is eroding, the truth really shall set them free.
Korea just experienced its first case of a serial killer not too long ago.
Huh? Where did you get that? Korea has had serial killers for centuries! I have been living in Korea for the most part since I was a teenager, and I know for a fact that there was at least one serial killer, in Hwasŏng County, Kyŏnggi-do Province, terrorizing the local populace in the 1990s. The buzz then reminded me of when we had the Night Stalker in SoCal in the 1980s. [By the way, in checking for a link on this, I read in the Donga Ilbo article that Korea has a statute of limitations on murder, something I found rather dismaying.]
And then there is the horrific case of Crown Prince Sado, the son of King Yŏngjo (who reigned from 1724 to 1776), who was known to be running around killing people but who, because of neo-Confucian propriety, all but the king were powerless to do anything aobut.
Yes, he was a violent serial killer, nearly two and a half centuries ago. We know this stuff because of the shillok (detailed daily records of royal goings-on). In fact, we even have a quote from the man: “It relieves my pent-up anger to kill people or animals when I am feeling depressed or on edge.”
There are a number of books on the man, including a couple in English, and it’s easy to tell that Prince Sado was quite mentally ill, but there he was, killing people right and left. Perhaps Korea’s oldest recorded example of a serial killer.
This is the price Korea pays for rushing headlong in the name of material progress. Koreans really need to start re-examining their values and think about where they are headed.
Marriages in Korea have long been about aggrandizing family fortunes or bettering economic circumstnaces. I agree that Korea has gone through break-neck changes and that leads to myriad social problems, but it’s not all about materialism. Take out that element, and you’d still have divorce, violence against women, other crime, etc.
iheartblueballs wrote:
Funny stuff bj. The reality is that I’ve never met any white males in Korea looking to be knights in shining armor,
Well, I don’t know if they were looking to be, but I know quite a few who ended up playing that role. Of course, many Korean men themselves end up playing that role, too.
What you don’t seem to realize, is that because the modern Korean man sets the bar so low in terms of ideas of gender roles, freedom, and decision-making power accorded their wives…
So we’re fighting stereotypes with stereotypes now, eh?
Even in the dark days of distorted neo-Confucianistic sexism, Korean wives not just wielded, but were expected to wield, considerable decision-making power in the home. The stereotype of the breadwinning husband giving up his entire “paycheck” to his wife, who divvies it out among various household responsibilities and gives her husband an allowance, stems from a long-established modern tradition. I used to think that was just a sham rationalization for sexism in Korea, but I soon saw that the power of the housewife was strong indeed.
At any rate, it appears that your idea of “the modern Korean man” who “sets the bar so low” is from the early 1990s or earlier. There are still plenty of people like that, of course, but a forward-thinking woman can find plenty of forward-thinking men, too.
any average Joe Schmo white-bread who has an inkling of equality and respects his girlfriend/wife as a person rather than a chef/maid/spermbank…comes out looking like that knight just by default. Who needs to put any effort into wearing the white armor when Korean men do all the work for us?
I think that for some people at least, it’s not that they DON’T see the women as any more than the chef/maid/spermbank, but that they know that all they have to do is be at least a little more outwardly gentlemanly than a typical Korean salaryman, and they can go places.
But hey, that’s not all “Whiteys” either. There are some very decent people on both sides, and some jackasses you wouldn’t want within 100 miles of your sister, and it’s really just ridiculous to be arguing this with stereotypes.
If a wife is a chef/maid/spermbank, then I guess a husband is just a paycheck/handyman/sperm donor. Many wives rarely get to see their husbands anyways.
“I had to use those phrases because most commentors automatically assumed the girl is “a virgin raped” and I had to bring analogy in the Western world to balance the view. Incidentally, you left out “a black teenager in Detroit” which can be construed as racist and sexist comment. ”
(wonder if wordpress accepts html)
Baduk, I honestly don’t know if you believe the things you say or merely say them to try and ‘make your point’. But it irks me to hear you say we assume things about the victim such as her being a virgin or you assuming she is some teenage prostitute. The ‘facts’ in this case are few and far between and to extrapolate everything that you have from the scant information available is somewhat ludicrous and extremely judgemental.
What is, however, glaringly obvious is your contempt for someone who claims to have been raped.. immediately pinning her down as a whore and a liar.
The events as you describe are possible but unless more is known, you can’t logically jump to the conclusion that because ‘motel’ ‘cellphone’ ‘internet chat’ and ‘stolen money’ were mentioned that one is a prostitute. Hell, who in this forum does not have a cell phone or have not IM’d anyone ever?
Kushibo mentioned it before, and although he meant it in a satirical way…
” At the station, there was a reporter waiting. Korean newspaper reporters hang out at the police station to write about shocking expose about human conditions. Sex sells. When he saw this young girl walking in, he jumped at the chance. He wrote a semi-fiction form of a soft porn deleting details about what she had done. He “sanitizes” the story to show her as a “virgin” damaged by male lust. The readers eat this up, a free porn
When you wrote this… I thought to myself… it’s people like you who eat these kind of stories up and serves to liven up your otherwise dull day.
In the end, it doesn’t matter who’s right and who’s wrong. It just seems that if you saw a girl laying in the street in a short skirt, bruised and bleeding.. instead of helping her out or asking what the matter was… I have this image of you spitting on her and calling her a dirty whore telling her she deserved and wanted it.
Nothing tells me how you’d react otherwise.
oops, guess i left out a /b after …free porn. apologies.
The whole thing sounds fishy to me.
I once covered a story where a young white woman said she was dating the black dude on trial. She said that she had sex with the dude all the time for a like a year, but each time he did it, he raped her. Now, this is a small Southern town, so I think her statements were an effort at a little face-saving, I fear.
Anyway.
In Korea, I once was on the subway talking to a cute Canadian girl. She said she had only been in Korea about a week, but she was going home the next day. She said she had been in a taxi a few days earlier when the taxi driver essentially kidnapped her and tried to sexually assalt her in a field. When he was unsuccessful he left her in the field and took off.
Shelton, the whole thing sounds fishy to you based on the testimony of a White woman in the South about her year-long sexual connection with a Black man?
The woman in the Pusan case was only fifteen, according to reports did not go back to the person she claimed committed rape, did not have a relationship for one year, was not concerned about violating racial taboos (though yes to sexual taboos, if it was consentual sex and not coercion), etc., etc.
While a lot of details need to be filled in, how does that story in the small Southern town make this story sound fishy?
Anyway, to beat the drum again, the girl is fifteen. Assuming the “young white woman” in your story was not underage and under the age of consent, that alone makes it entirely different from that case.
The case of the Canadian woman might seem more relevant. Though I hope they’re few and far between, some taxi drivers have been known to do some highly questionable things such as that, to women with whom they thought they could get away with it. A vulnerable teenager already in trouble is an easy mark.
Random guy,
“What is, however, glaringly obvious is your contempt for someone who claims to have been raped.. immediately pinning her down as a whore and a liar.”
I did not say anything like that. You are extrapolating to absurdity. Bending, stretching and assuming. Totally unfair!
I only commented on this particular case. A sixteen year old girl goes to a motel? End of story. She is an easy girl, a whore or a whore-wannabe.
Korea is different from western countries.
Another thing.
A sixteen year old girl “drink”s till she passes out, so that a man can rape her? End of story! She is a whore.
You guys are all applying some of your prejudices about rape. But, for this case, they do not apply. She is a junior call girl.
I think you just proved my point twice over Baduk.
because someone drowns their sorrows in alcohol and passes out does not make them a whore or a whore-wannabe. jeesh. are you calling any female who passes out from over-drinking or exhaustion and gets molsted/raped a whore?
That’s what I mean by ‘your contempt for soneone who claims to have been raped’.
You guys are all applying some of your prejudices about rape.
Baduk, you have the worst prejudice towards rape victims. In the court of law, it doesn’t matter how promiscuous a rape victim is – a rape is a rape. The only thing that matters is evidence.
A woman is responsible for her action.
If a man drinks a lot and passes out in the street and loses his wallet, he is to blame. If a woman passes out in the arms of a stranger, she is not blameless.
Mi Hwa, how do you prove a rape when there was no struggle, no scream, and no visit to a hospital? Just because a woman says it was a rape, the morning after? Whole lot of men will end up in jail.
I am talking about the evidence. What is the evidence of rape, other than her statements? In the US court, the past behavior patterns of the victim do enter into the decision, because they are facts.
Shelton Bumgarner brought a good point. Is it a rape just because a woman says it is? Shouldn’t we look at evidences?
In the US, about twenty years ago, a half-naked woman entered a man’s locker room and she did not scream when a sex act was committed. Was it a rape? She says it was. The court decided that it was not.
Let’s just think about the following episode.
A(male) and B(female) have known each other for sometime. They go out for drinking. B got so drunk and could not walk. She asked A to take her to a motel so that she could sleep it off.
At a motel, B holds on to A as she falls asleep. A and B have sex while half-sleeping.
In the morning, B accuse A for a rape.
In the eyes of most Korean people, the fact that they went to a motel together will clear A of rape. I think the same would be true in the US court as well.
A woman entering a motel room with a man should know what that means. And, all women do.
“A woman is responsible for her action.
If a man drinks a lot and passes out in the street and loses his wallet, he is to blame. If a woman passes out in the arms of a stranger, she is not blameless.
….
she is responsible for her actions and yes, she drank excessively.
does that mean she invited someone to take advantage of her and rape her? I bet you believe that if a woman wears skimpy clothes she is a slut. Regardless of what state she was in… she if she did not give consent, she was raped. If a man passes out from drinking and someone takes his wallet, does that mean that wasn’t theft?
Random guy,
What constitutes consent? It differs in different countries. A waitress in a host bar walks out with a customer. They have sex in the dark corners of a street. She says she never gave a consent. Is it a rape?
Most Koreans will say no. Judging from her job and the fact they left the bar together.
In the US, it may be a rape.
Different countries have different lifestyles. The fact this girl entered a motel clearly shows that she was asking for it. And, it is so abnormal for a clerk to rape a customer. It just does not happen in Korean society. A pharmacy is a local spot. Everybody knows who works there and where he lives. The cab drivers are known to be wild bunch and they may rape a drunken female passengers. But, not the store clerks.
Baduk wrote:
A woman is responsible for her action.
But an underage girl, not quite. You’re either defending physical rapists or statutory rapists, Baduk.
As for legal-age women, yes, they are responsible for their own actions. Were this a woman of legal age, it would be a different matter, since as it now stands ANY SEX with the 15-year-old is ILLEGAL. If she were of legal age, then one could talk about personal responsibility more, although the case with the taxi driver was not in a motel, and it was on the way to the police station.
At any rate, it’s irrelevant, because as a minor, she is not responsible for her actions. She is not an adult, and her actions should not be treated as if she is an adult. This is how predatorial people work: they find the insecurities, immature points, etc., of the immature child and prey on that.
Baduk, she is a child. That is why, even if it really is true that she consented, it is still rape.
If a man drinks a lot and passes out in the street and loses his wallet, he is to blame. If a woman passes out in the arms of a stranger, she is not blameless.
If a man drinks a lot and passes out on the street and someone steals his wallet, the fact that he was drunk is no defense for the thief.
Mi Hwa, how do you prove a rape when there was no struggle, no scream, and no visit to a hospital? Just because a woman says it was a rape, the morning after?
Baduk, do you know anybody who was raped or sexually assaulted? Having dealt with a rather horrible situation involving a cousin in college who was sexually assaulted by her church counselor, let me tell you that it doesn’t always play out that way. Shock, shame, embarrassment, fear, etc., are all factors that pull people away from that scenario.
But of course, the Bible says in Deuteronomy that women who are raped in the city are to be stoned to death along with their rapist (women raped in the countryside are not stoned to death) for the same reason that they could scream. Never mind that some people just freeze up when something horrible happens to them, they must have been secretly wanting it, right, Baduk?
Whole lot of men will end up in jail.
Well then a whole lot of men had better stop having sex with underage strangers, eh?
I am talking about the evidence. What is the evidence of rape, other than her statements?
Her age: it’s statutory rape, even if it’s “consentual.”
In the US court, the past behavior patterns of the victim do enter into the decision, because they are facts.
Not the sexual history of the woman (it’s not supposed to anyway) because the crime is the act of the man, not the alleged promiscuity of the woman.
But at any rate, she is underage, therefore, even if it’s consentual, it’s statutory rape. These men, if they acknowledge sex at all, all violated the law by at least that much.
Shelton Bumgarner brought a good point. Is it a rape just because a woman says it is? Shouldn’t we look at evidences?
Shelton Bumgarner brought up an irrelevant case to this one.
In the US, about twenty years ago, a half-naked woman entered a man’s locker room and she did not scream when a sex act was committed. Was it a rape? She says it was. The court decided that it was not.
Was she fifteen? What does this have to do with it?
Baduk wrote:
What constitutes consent? It differs in different countries.
Baduk, get this through you’re thick skull: consent is irrelevant in this issue because a woman not of statutory age cannot give consent. They broke the law; it’s only a question of what type of rape they committed.
Kushibo,
You are biased on this topic. You lost the balance and therefore you are not thinking objectively.
“Having dealt with a rather horrible situation involving a cousin in college who was sexually assaulted by her church counselor, let me tell you that it doesn’t always play out that way. Shock, shame, embarrassment, fear, etc., are all factors that pull people away from that scenario(no scream, no struggle and no hospital visit).”
Are you advocating that we just take any women’s word and convict the man involved? Even the motel scenario that I mentioned?
About this particular case: I am not arguing that it is a statutory rape. Yet, one of the report I read says that the clerk made reconciliation with the girl’s party and released. What reconciliation? Does it mean that he did not commit the crime? It made me question as to whether there was a sexual act between the clerk and the girl in the first place. If not, who made up the story? The reporter or the girl?
She added on additional rapes committed by an acquaintance and a cab driver. Both incidences involved heavy drinking on her part. Her behavior, sixteen year old girl drinking till she passes out, made me question her veracity. These additional rape stories are hints given by the reporter or the newspaper that the whole story is unreliable.
I think the whole story is a fabrication. There was no rape committed by the pharmacy tech. The other three “alleged” rapes are all smoke-screens to confuse the readers.
You are biased on this topic. You lost the balance and therefore you are not thinking objectively.
Coming from you, Baduk, I wear that as a badge of honor.
Are you advocating that we just take any women’s word and convict the man involved? Even the motel scenario that I mentioned?
No, I’m not advocating any such thing. In fact, I have acknowledged several times now that the scenario you described may in fact turn out to be the truth, or not far from it. But if these men do/did in fact admit to having had sex with this fifteen-year-old, even if consentual, they have seriously violated the law and they are not deserving of your “understanding.”
You keep referring to her as a woman, and she is not. Not in the legal sense, anyway.
from http://womensissues.about.com/cs/rap1/a/aarapeshieldlaw.htm
Argument Against the Rape Shield Law:
Much has changed since the Rape Shield Law was introduced in 1970. Pre-marital sex has become more common. Sexual views are discussed openly between men and women. Due to this and the increasing awareness of rape, there are some people who believe that the Rape Shield Law is no longer necessary and should be repealed. Some of these people believe that the rape shield law keeps an accused rapist from receiving a fair trial and that the laws are discriminatory against men.
In a 1993 case in Wisconsin, a man was convicted of raping a 15-year-old girl – but the case was later overturned by the U.S. District Court because the girl had previously filed false rape allegations. In the original trial the defense attorney wanted to use this information but the judge ruled that the line of questioning would be prejudicial.
In another trial, sportscaster Marv Albert was accused of assault and battery during a sexual encounter. His mistress had a history of falsely accusing men of assault and rape, but this information was denied entry into the trial.
In The News:
The Kobe Bryant Case: According to The Detroit Free Press – The rape shield law is intended to limit testimony about an accuser’s sexual and psychological history. Yet potential jurors are being bombarded with articles about the woman’s drug overdose, her hospitalization for mental health reasons, and Internet gossip about the kind of woman who would enter an athlete’s hotel room at midnight.
Assault on Rape Shield Law Puts Victims at Risk: According to The Forensic Nurse – “No” may no longer mean “No” in cases of sexual assault in New Jersey, if a victim has had a prior relationship with her assailant.
Baduk, in light of your professed faith, don’t you think you should be asking yourself “What would Jesus do (or write on this blog)? Do you think HE would be labeling this GIRL a whore and a liar? Or do you think he would call to task the ADULTS who made use of her?
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you…
Matthew 21:32 (New International Version)
Put down that stone Baduk 씨…
The blame for this may be pinned on “Westernization”. The high incidence of May December statutory rapes really must be blamed on Viagra, don’t you think?
Ever notice how the media keeps running stories blaming the increased incidenc of diseases like diabetes and cancer on “Westernized diet” – hmm…nobody ever questions how many Koreans actually do eat a Westernized diet – to my knowledge, it’s still pretty much rice and kimchi along with excessive alcohol and smoking. If the Westernized diet is to blame, I suppose it’s those vitamin supplements and meats prolonging life expectancy long enough for diseases of aging to take effect…
Alright, I have nothing important to add to this thread. I kind of like the story though. It’s kind of cute.
Yeosu.be.there
I am glad about your comment. Yet, my life experience taught me that there are some people and practices that we Christians must abhor. This girl is such a case. She does not deserve our attention.
There are some people in this world who engage in sins so dark they are not worth talking about. God has given over them to Satan.
Having empathy about these degenerate people and insist on having to embrace them, only we Christians lose our message and make us condone sins. I have been consistant in writing that this “garbage”(the girl) does not deserve good people’s attention.
If she repents her ways and becomes a creature of God that she should be, then she deserves our attention. As long as she walks into a motel with a man and passes out from heavy drinking, talking about her actions only wastes our time.
Then, the discussion generally has evolved to laws and prejudices about rape. I did comment on those subjects. Some of us got heated up during discussion, but overall I have learned a lot.
It has been productive discussion.
Many people who came in late did not read my comments carefully but just read what other people assumed me to be saying and wrote about my “shortcomings”. I wish they read my comments first hand, in stead of reading other people’s commentaries on what I have wrote.
Don’t join the lynching mob. Make your own decision. Be an original thinker.
As I wrote several times before, many who read the newspaper story automatically ASSumed that she is an average high school girl who got into trouble.
I wanted to present a different view, especially accentuating the difference between Korea and the western society. In the process of doing that, I got called with names. Some wanted to continue “dick match”(who’s dick is bigger?) from other discussion topics and were desperated to prove that they were better thinkers than me. Others had strong bias about men accused of rape. As soon as I wrote the my take on the girl, they hammered me for badmouthing a victim.
All understandable. All expected reactions.
Since I am the only one (it seemed to me) writing about the girl herself, I wrote more accusations about her actions. Others wrote about evil men and the victimhood of raped woman. Like a broken record, we wasted our time on this garbage story, which I think is a fabrication.
But, I have learned about “Rape Shield” law and how a woman can use it to prosecute an innocent man to jail. That is what I have learned.
A new knowledge and I have improved on my writing skill. It has been a productive discussion.
There are some people in this world who engage in sins so dark they are not worth talking about.
You call yourself a Christian, but your words here are not at all Christ-like.
As a fellow Christian, I am horrified—I mean that sincerely, I am horrified—by some of the things you say. God does not hand over any living soul to Satan.
If everything you speculate about this girl is true, she needs and deserves Christ-like help, not puritanical Confucian scorn.
You are a Pharisee, sir.
As for the rape shield law, you are obfuscating this situation by making it out to be something it is not. She is not an adult woman with multiple sex partners who suddenly cried rape; she is an underage girl of fifteen years who is protected by statutory rape laws because even if she consents (and you have nothing other than your prejudicial speculation that she did), the law righfully recognizes that there is an utterly uneven playing field in terms of knowledge, maturity, experience, etc., by which legal adults can take tremendous advantage and have undue and dangerous influence over minors. This is why sex with a minor is illegal and automatically has serious consequences.
Why do you fail to address the actions of the men who, apparently, willingly had sex with an underage girl? Why do you say we should give them understanding?
Your prejudices, sir, have infected even your faith. You are in trouble spiritually. Go and talk with your moksanim and see what he has to say about your views.
Kushibo,
The guy who pretend to be a servant of Jesus and raped your cousin does not deserve your attention or your love. Some people have gone too far for us to waste our time.
This girl is such a case. Constantly drinking and having sex.
Jesus does not love everyone in the world. Only repentant sinners. Only those who hear him and obey his commands.
Your catholic theology and my protestantism are slightly different. Some of Paul’s letters were very stern. Are you saying he was not a Christian? Did he lack love?
There is difference between loving someone and condoning sins. Let’s call a garbage a garbage, because she stinks.
Baduk,
You fail to note that Paul’s stern letters were to the CHURCHES (and Christians) in Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, etc. I imagine Paul might have a few choice words for you as well.
“For God so loved the world…,” hmm; I wonder what John meant by this?
Were I Christian, I’d pray for you Baduk.
Impressive Bible knowledge, Mr. Yeosu. There’s clearly hope for you yet.
Awhile back I read about homes for unwed mothers in Korea, and wondered about the stats for teen pregnancy in Korea; searching for them led me to articles on various related topics, like sex ed., teen prostitution, etc.
One of the articles I found may provide an answer to questions above about the age of consent. A Korea Times article from July 2001 talks about a case where 5 men were acquitted of prostitution with a runaway 15-year-old girl because, by giving her a place to sleep, or giving her bus fare, the judge determined they had not paid her enough for it to constitute payment for sex. The reason they were not charged for having sex with a minor?
” Under related laws, those who have sex with minors younger than 13 should be punished, regardless of whether the minors agreed or whether there was a financial deal.
However, having sex with minors aged 13 or older, which does not involve financial deals, is not punishable if the minor consents.”
Acknowledging the legal loophole, a judge, who asked not to be named, said related laws should be revised to set detailed and stricter criteria for underage prostitution.”
I wonder of that age of consent dates back to 1948? At any rate, I don’t know that it’s been revised since 2001. The only laws I’ve learned about on the books are the Youth Protection Law, from 1997 (which punished bar owners, etc, who hired minors, and tried to keep kids away from ‘bad areas’), and the Sexual Protection of Minors Act of 2000, which punished “statutory rape and prostitution. It also punish[ed] those who offer any kind of material reward in exchange for sexual relations with minors under 19″ (and put the names and addresses of those who were convicted of buying sex from minors on a police website). I guess statutory rape just applied to those under 13?
This is the only English language article I’ve found that mentions this (other than looking at ‘age of consent’ sites and wikipedia articles, which all list Korea as 13 years old). I’ve never come across information about revisions to the law since 2000 that would have changed the age of consent, even though it’s commonly thought to be 19. Perhaps those employed in the field of law would have a better idea.
Suffice to say, according to the Korea Times, as of 2001 the age of consent was 13.
She is clearly a juvenile delinquent. There is no reason for discussing her sordid affairs any longer.
Do I love her? Yes. But, instead of condoning her actions and I will set her straight. I will apply a tough love.
1) I will place her in an environment (junior reformatory) so that she cannot go on drinking. Alcohol is a form of drug. For a teenage girl, it is very potent form of drug which is being sold in the broad daylight.
2) I will find a counseller who will keep a close eye on her and introduce her into a right surrounding.
3) Her parents, if any, should be involved.
4) She should attend school regularly and set goals for herself.
Blaming men does not help. There will always be men who will entertain her type. She must reform.
Till she changes her ways, I will call her names and be tough on her, instead of condoning her actions. Jesus would do the same, I believe.
I heard that Bill Cosby got into trouble with black people for saying the same thing I am saying.
I wonder if he got called “a pharisee” and “a non-Christian”.
You cannot call men evil when a woman puts out, in much the same way that black people cannot call white people evil when their teenagers do drugs and engage in high school sex.
The victim is not a victim in these cases.
this story reminds me of a Mongolian joke:
2 female frogs meet on the path, Frog #1says: how are you how r things going? Frog#2says:a horrible thing happened to me,the day before yesterday I was walking around a lake that’s on the other side and all the male frogs of that lake raped me.Yesterday I was walking around the area and they raped me again!
Frog#1:Oh my god what a horrible thing, Hope you’re ok! So where are you going now?
Frog#2:Well,I guess I’m just heading to that lake again…….
You cannot call men evil when a woman puts out
However, men who rape underage girls are sex offenders and child molesters. I wouldn’t want them living in my neighborhood. They should all live near Baduk, since he thinks that nothing’s wrong with them.
Perhaps Deacon Baduk misunderstands the root of “predator.” It’s prey (as in prey upon), not pray.
(Didn’t Deacon Baduk play for the Rams long ago?)
your mum,
Thanks for the words of encouragement. Where would I be if even my Mum gave up on me?
MiHwa,
You quoted me out of context. You should include this;”Blaming men does not help. There will always be men who will entertain her type. She must reform.”
Those men are scums but, with high hormone’s urging, some innocent young men can fall prey to the opposite sex as well in the same way that poor people will steal from a drunk lying on the street. Both parties involved are bad. However, the whole thing started with a junior behaving erratically.
There was another story like this on the paper. http://www.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/20060308/060100000020060308163456K3.html
New story is more reliable (no cock-and-bull about a pharmacy technician, Yonhap may have put this mediocre story in the front page to cover up for the previous fiction) and typical of what is happening in Korean society. A junior high school deliquent with no parental control running wild and an old predator looking for a score. I think the real solution is to hold motel owners responsible. If any underaged child gets into a room with a possible sexual partner, the owner goes to jail. Period. He should be responsible for who are in the rooms.
And, I think all elementary, junior and high school female should be taught about dangers of rape and required to carry Mace as protection. The teacher should check this fact everyday.
Yesterday, a high school kid, after watching some X-rated material from internet, raped a 3rd grade elementary school student living in the same apartment. She happened to get on to the wrong elevator, the one with the oversexed boy. He took her to the top of the building and raped her.
In olden days of Korea, all women are required to carry a small dagger, to fend off possible rape and also to commit suicide if “dirtied”. In much the same spirit, Korean government must furnish a small size Mace with an official stamp to every female child, elementary school and up.
And, any man of any age who had a sexual contact with an underaged female should be “neutered” in an official facility.
Mace? That’s just what everyone needs – to feel more fearful.
And, any man of any age who had a sexual contact with an underaged female should be “neutered” in an official facility.
1. Should a 19 year-old be neutered for having sex with an 18 year old? One of the problems with rigid age of consent laws (as opposed to those that allow for sex within a range of 2-4 years) is that people are considered criminals for having sex with someone a year or two younger. Oh, and worth remembering is that ‘underaged’ differs from country to country.
2. Neutering and especially physical conditioning which makes them feel physically ill if they experience ‘corrected’ desires I think are, as a society, pretty barbaric punishments to inflict on people(the conditioning, especially). If they’re that dangerous, keep them in prison.
As for punishing motel owners, a friend saw a case on TV in which a man and a 15 year old girl had sex in a motel room which the owner had been nice enough to hide a ‘Molka’ in. When the video turned up on the internet, the Motel owner was charged for filming and for allowing a 15 year old enter the motel. The man wasn’t charged; whether it’s because the video was inadmissable as evidence (i have no idea about rules for evidence in Korea’s legal system) or because the age of consent is actually still 13, I have no idea.
In olden days of Korea, all women are required to carry a small dagger, to fend off possible rape and also to commit suicide if “dirtied”. In much the same spirit, Korean government must furnish a small size Mace with an official stamp to every female child, elementary school and up.
And in the spirit of the ancient ways, if a woman of today somehow ends up getting “dirtied” despite such protection, she should be expected to mace herself.
I read this morning the definite Korean law about the statutory rape:
1) Having sex with a child less or equal to thirteen, even if mutually agreed, is illegal: http://www.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/20060309/060300000020060309172613K2.html
2) The rape of a person older than thirteen can be treated as if it is a battery. Koreans start calling the rape(강간)with a new name, the sexual battery(성폭력)a few years ago. The injuring party can pay restitution, usually monetary but in some cases the promise of marriage, and be reconciled to the injured party.
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