Comments on: Jesus, human rights and North Korea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/ Korea... in Blog Format Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:16:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: consolidating student loans http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/#comment-37248 consolidating student loans Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:14:19 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2473#comment-37248 <strong>consolidating student loans...</strong> consolidating student loans Caution: breathing may be hazardous to your health. ... consolidating student loans…

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]]> By: proxima http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/#comment-30919 proxima Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:36:07 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2473#comment-30919 baduk, On the NK human right issues, I'd rather agree with you. But dude, you look like war maniac or something when you talk about 'successful scenario'. No common people wants God da*n wars. baduk,

On the NK human right issues, I’d rather agree with you. But dude, you look like war maniac or something when you talk about ’successful scenario’. No common people wants God da*n wars.

]]> By: proxima http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/#comment-30917 proxima Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:21:20 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2473#comment-30917 Well, I think There's NO successful scenario for Korean citizens. SK's just not ready for taking over NK. There will be HUGE, devastating and tragedic economic problems after the freaking war. Well, I think There’s NO successful scenario for Korean citizens. SK’s just not ready for taking over NK. There will be HUGE, devastating and tragedic economic problems after the freaking war.

]]> By: baduk http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/#comment-29839 baduk Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:55:42 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2473#comment-29839 wills, That was when the Chinese were true believers in communism. Now, they have become somewhat pragmatic and secretive; they want to use NK to do their dirty work. If the US attacks NK, they will not enter the war per se, but rather want to stay away and supply NK and want to negotiate and get something in return. That "payment" could be Taiwan or more money. At this point of China's history, the Chinese are not stupid to fight the US. If, however, Japan or SK attacked NK, then China will definitely enter the war. The successful scenario is: 1)The US unilaterally bombs suspected NK sites. 2) SK protests but vows to attack NK if NK retaliates against SK. 3) NK may or may not attack SK. It will follow China's directive. China may tell NK to cool. China may start negotiating with the US. 4) If NK attacks, SK retaliates only in the same measure. However, there is more than 50% chance that NK will just sit and take it. wills,

That was when the Chinese were true believers in communism. Now, they have become somewhat pragmatic and secretive; they want to use NK to do their dirty work.

If the US attacks NK, they will not enter the war per se, but rather want to stay away and supply NK and want to negotiate and get something in return. That “payment” could be Taiwan or more money.

At this point of China’s history, the Chinese are not stupid to fight the US. If, however, Japan or SK attacked NK, then China will definitely enter the war.

The successful scenario is:
1)The US unilaterally bombs suspected NK sites.
2) SK protests but vows to attack NK if NK retaliates against SK.
3) NK may or may not attack SK. It will follow China’s directive. China may tell NK to cool. China may start negotiating with the US.
4) If NK attacks, SK retaliates only in the same measure. However, there is more than 50% chance that NK will just sit and take it.

]]> By: wills http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/#comment-29837 wills Mon, 27 Feb 2006 04:47:56 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2473#comment-29837 "??hina WILL go to war with the US if military action is taken against NK.??- bluejives No. Not at all. China will stay put. They are cowards. Lightweights." Look at history. When US invaded NK after liberating SK in the Korean war, the Chinese stepped in and pushed the US forces back. “??hina WILL go to war with the US if military action is taken against NK.??- bluejives

No. Not at all. China will stay put. They are cowards. Lightweights.”

Look at history. When US invaded NK after liberating SK in the Korean war, the Chinese stepped in and pushed the US forces back.

]]> By: baduk http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/#comment-29798 baduk Sat, 25 Feb 2006 06:00:07 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2473#comment-29798 The person like Kim Tae Jin, who spreads the Good News to the North Koreans, is doing more for Korea and its people than some psuedo-intellectuals who insist we should not anger KJI and his benefactors, the Chinese. F*** 'em. I will join Kim and spread Gospels of Jesus Christ to my Northern breathren till they become free. Free to talk, free to use internet and learn the outside world. Neo-Commies are angry whenever they hear Park ChungHee's dictatorship brought prosperity to Korea. They insist that it was a dark time of imprisonment, censorship and lack of freedom. Well, how come you guys are condoning KJI who is doing exactly the same thing and even more? Or, you say is "love KJI to prevent a war"? Coward. With the money he is getting from the South, KJI is solidifying his grip on NKs and buying more weapons, tanks and planes. Keep paying him so that he will be happy? WTF! The person like Kim Tae Jin, who spreads the Good News to the North Koreans, is doing more for Korea and its people than some psuedo-intellectuals who insist we should not anger KJI and his benefactors, the Chinese.

F*** ‘em.

I will join Kim and spread Gospels of Jesus Christ to my Northern breathren till they become free. Free to talk, free to use internet and learn the outside world.

Neo-Commies are angry whenever they hear Park ChungHee’s dictatorship brought prosperity to Korea. They insist that it was a dark time of imprisonment, censorship and lack of freedom.

Well, how come you guys are condoning KJI who is doing exactly the same thing and even more? Or, you say is “love KJI to prevent a war”? Coward. With the money he is getting from the South, KJI is solidifying his grip on NKs and buying more weapons, tanks and planes.

Keep paying him so that he will be happy? WTF!

]]> By: baduk http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/#comment-29796 baduk Sat, 25 Feb 2006 05:42:52 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2473#comment-29796 "China WILL go to war with the US if military action is taken against NK." - bluejives No. Not at all. China will stay put. They are cowards. Lightweights. "The human rights situation in NK, as emotionally compelling as it may be, is not a justifiable rationale for jeopardizing the security and welfare of SK or precipating a major regional conflict with China."-bluejives So what do you suggest? Just imagine that it does not happen. Kowtow to the Chinese and embrace (and support) KJI? Rho and your kind(neo-Commies) are on the way out. Those who fought so bravely against the dictators like Park and Chun suddenly did 180 degree and now say "love KJI"? Totally ridiculous and greedy. Yes, you guys are selling SK out to China. “China WILL go to war with the US if military action is taken against NK.” - bluejives

No. Not at all. China will stay put. They are cowards. Lightweights.

“The human rights situation in NK, as emotionally compelling as it may be, is not a justifiable rationale for jeopardizing the security and welfare of SK or precipating a major regional conflict with China.”-bluejives

So what do you suggest? Just imagine that it does not happen. Kowtow to the Chinese and embrace (and support) KJI? Rho and your kind(neo-Commies) are on the way out.

Those who fought so bravely against the dictators like Park and Chun suddenly did 180 degree and now say “love KJI”? Totally ridiculous and greedy. Yes, you guys are selling SK out to China.

]]> By: bluejives http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/#comment-29789 bluejives Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:55:26 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2473#comment-29789 And no, sudden regime change via outright military action for the sole sake of human rights in NK is not an option. It is foolhardy and ill-conceived. The human rights situation in NK, as emotionally compelling as it may be, is not a justifiable rationale for jeopardizing the security and welfare of SK or precipating a major regional conflict with China. China WILL go to war with the US if military action is taken against NK. And no, sudden regime change via outright military action for the sole sake of human rights in NK is not an option. It is foolhardy and ill-conceived. The human rights situation in NK, as emotionally compelling as it may be, is not a justifiable rationale for jeopardizing the security and welfare of SK or precipating a major regional conflict with China. China WILL go to war with the US if military action is taken against NK.

]]> By: bluejives http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/#comment-29788 bluejives Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:48:13 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2473#comment-29788 Improvement of human rights is a compelling cause but the socio-political reality of nation development dictates that genuine human rights can only be sustained within a civic society equipped with institutions that uphold constitutional liberty, such as a free press, a system of checks and balances, non-arbitrary and impartial justice system, and democratic elections. That can only be brought about in turn by a process of economic reform within a liberal authoritarian regime. The modern history of South Korea itself is living proof of this order of process. China is another example of a former hardcore regime, which turned liberal authoritarian in recent times, undergoing massive economic reform and consequential growth. In the future, China's political development route will converge with that of South Korea. There are other example as well, Ukraine also comes to mind. This needs to be kept in mind when dealing with a nation like NK. This is why I believe SK's conditional engagement, for all its faults and blemishes, is the "right thing to do". Economic reform first, followed by political liberalization, which in turn settles the human rights issue. But emphasize human rights rights, especially with a nation like NK, is akin to forcing a square peg through a round hole and ultimately you get neither human rights nor political reform nor economic reform but just alot of mutual hostilty and stalemate. This is what the Jesus Freaks dont comprehend in their zeal. Improvement of human rights is a compelling cause but the socio-political reality of nation development dictates that genuine human rights can only be sustained within a civic society equipped with institutions that uphold constitutional liberty, such as a free press, a system of checks and balances, non-arbitrary and impartial justice system, and democratic elections. That can only be brought about in turn by a process of economic reform within a liberal authoritarian regime. The modern history of South Korea itself is living proof of this order of process. China is another example of a former hardcore regime, which turned liberal authoritarian in recent times, undergoing massive economic reform and consequential growth. In the future, China’s political development route will converge with that of South Korea. There are other example as well, Ukraine also comes to mind. This needs to be kept in mind when dealing with a nation like NK. This is why I believe SK’s conditional engagement, for all its faults and blemishes, is the “right thing to do”. Economic reform first, followed by political liberalization, which in turn settles the human rights issue. But emphasize human rights rights, especially with a nation like NK, is akin to forcing a square peg through a round hole and ultimately you get neither human rights nor political reform nor economic reform but just alot of mutual hostilty and stalemate. This is what the Jesus Freaks dont comprehend in their zeal.

]]> By: NKay? :: Jesus of Pyongyang :: February :: 2006 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/02/24/jesus-human-rights-and-north-korea/#comment-29780 NKay? :: Jesus of Pyongyang :: February :: 2006 Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:30:06 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/?p=2473#comment-29780 [...] (via. The Ex-Marmot) A look at North Korean human rights from a Korean Christian worldview. SEOUL After spending 18 months illegally in China in the mid-1980’s and converting to Christianity, Kim Tae Jin was locked up for four years in North Korea’s infamous prison camp No. 15 at Yodok.   He fled the North a few years after his release and found his way in 2001 to South Korea, where he is co-chairman of NK Gulag, a private group that focuses on human rights in North Korea. While securing those rights is an important goal, for Kim, 50, it comes second to a far more consequential one: evangelizing in North Korea.   "God never ordered us to fight for human rights, but he ordered us to spread the word to the end of the earth," Kim said, adding that the group’s leaders were North Korean converts to Christianity.   Their faith, he said, buttressed their political work. "Because we are North Koreans and Christians, we feel responsible for leading the fight for better conditions in North Korea." [...] [...] (via. The Ex-Marmot) A look at North Korean human rights from a Korean Christian worldview. SEOUL After spending 18 months illegally in China in the mid-1980’s and converting to Christianity, Kim Tae Jin was locked up for four years in North Korea’s infamous prison camp No. 15 at Yodok.   He fled the North a few years after his release and found his way in 2001 to South Korea, where he is co-chairman of NK Gulag, a private group that focuses on human rights in North Korea. While securing those rights is an important goal, for Kim, 50, it comes second to a far more consequential one: evangelizing in North Korea.   "God never ordered us to fight for human rights, but he ordered us to spread the word to the end of the earth," Kim said, adding that the group’s leaders were North Korean converts to Christianity.   Their faith, he said, buttressed their political work. "Because we are North Koreans and Christians, we feel responsible for leading the fight for better conditions in North Korea." [...]

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