The overseas F-22 would cost only a bit more than the current F-2 they’re building, so why not? The Japanese could put the aircraft to good use as a China deterrent. Plus, they could easily take out Korea’s F-15Ks based on Cheju-do of they had to.
I wouldn’t let the technology go to anybody until somebody else is right on the threshold of reproducing it. Say, if France were going to produce a stealth plane in near future, I’d sell, but not until something like that happens. Or, until the science of radar and other air defense technology caught up.
It is nothing against the Japanese. I just wouldn’t risk the technology as long as it is cutting edge and ahead of everybody else by a wide margin.
On 2nd thought —- I would also factor in if there are cutting edge technologies in other defense areas we are working with the Japanese on and the price they want for helping with the costs and technology is selling some version of the F-22. For example, I seem to remember hearing a couple of years ago that Japan and the US were working on a, if I remember correctly, laser device that could knock out incoming artillery. I don’t remember if it were laser technology, but it was for anti-artillery. If we had technology like that in the works with Japan —- something that could revolutionize other aspects of war fighting — like anti-ballistic missile systems — then I could compromise on stealth technology.
Japan should buy, buy and buy weapons to counter China. If Japan gets mighty strong and Koreans see they cannot beat Japan but face certain defeat, Koreans will join Japan’s side.
The old adage of “Can’t beat ‘em? Join ‘em.” works here.
Korea as a small player will side with the stronger of the two. Afer all, Koreans do not want to die for a losing side.
I would be surprised if the US actually goes through with this considering the tension in the area, especially with Korea. Maybe if they sold it to both. I also agree with the concern over technology being sold to China.
I wouldn’t want to sell it to either, unless it is going to hurt major joint research efforts with Japan on missile defense and any other system that could add as much weight to the positive as the negative of having the technology for the plane leak out of Japan —- or if France or another nation is on the threshold of getting the technology anyway.
Neither South Korea nor Japan has any urgent need to replace their fighter fleet. The F15K can remain reliable for for the ROKAF for the next decade or two, especially with the new APG-63(V)2 AESA upgrade. Japan’s F15J will continue to secure Jpn’s airspace for sometime also.
The South Korean navy already has it eyes set on the F-35B/C; but they’re not in any rush to get them. The ROKAF has interest in acquiring F35A and F-22/A, but hasn’t made any moves at this time.
“The overseas F-22 would cost only a bit more than the current F-2 they??e building, so why not? The Japanese could put the aircraft to good use as a China deterrent. Plus, they could easily take out Korea?? F-15Ks based on Cheju-do of they had to.”
F-22 is a air superiority fighter, not a fighter-bomber. F-35 would be perfect for that task.
FYI, that is also the reason why ROK chose F15K over the Rafael. People assumed that the ROKAF chose F15K because of US pressure, that is just not the case, the general public are just ignorant of what the ROKAF is looking for and are mixing up what kind of roles the Rafale and F15K plays in. The Korean air force right from the start wanted a fighter-bomber; Rafale is technically superior to the F15K in air-to-air combat, but its just a pure plane-killer and plus it would have brought a lot of uncertainties to the air force, most Korea’s weapons are US made and F15E certified. Although, Dassault has promised full weapons integration, many of the senior officers has their doubts that Rafale can fly as efficiently (since there’s no telling how the american weapons will effect the plane’s aerodynamics). F15K’s massive 25,000 pound payload and use wide variety of ammunitions such as the JDAMS and SLAM-ER missiles, is just the kind of thing they were looking for in case of NK bombardament.
“I wonder if it is the avionics that come with such a plane that make it so formidable a weapon . . .”
Its the AESA radar and the low radar cross section that is the highlight of the plane. Its RCS on radar is equal to a metal marble. It can detect and kill any plane in the world before being detected. The British Defense Evaluation and Research Agency conducted a simulation of the F-22 and other planes against the Su-27. Based on their research F-22 had the highest kill ratio of any plane (10 Su-27 killed versus 1 F-22), more then double the kill ratio of its closest competitor (European Typhoon).
For dogfighting, it has nozzel vectoring technology to match the manueverability of Su-37s. But speed and manueverability, isn’t that important in today’s engagements. There is only so much G-force and human body can take.
we’re back to this one? ok. Japan and US have been intimately involved in the production of this aircraft. pratt and whitney is still a closed-inhouse company but lockheed martin sub-contracts to japanese companies extensively and this is no exception. per article 9 of their constitution they cannot utilize that development for economic gain without going through the parent company but nonetheless they have knowledge of the technology.
with that said I that YManchun is right on the money that Japan has no strategic interest in purchasing 22s. The Joint Fighter F-35s are right around the corner and offer more flexibility and more cutting edge techno. I’m not sure why globalsecurity.org doesn’t list it but Japan operates 2 squadrons of F-16s procured through a late 80s early 90s deal. The F-22 is the replacement for F-16s not F-15s and Japan has no need for air superiority fighters.
of course lockheed martin and pratt and whitney will try to sell to whoever, so if someone bites, tata…if they have their way they’ll sell Mr. Smith or Mr. Kim a bird if the price is right.
15 Comments
The overseas F-22 would cost only a bit more than the current F-2 they’re building, so why not? The Japanese could put the aircraft to good use as a China deterrent. Plus, they could easily take out Korea’s F-15Ks based on Cheju-do of they had to.
I wouldn’t let the technology go to anybody until somebody else is right on the threshold of reproducing it. Say, if France were going to produce a stealth plane in near future, I’d sell, but not until something like that happens. Or, until the science of radar and other air defense technology caught up.
It is nothing against the Japanese. I just wouldn’t risk the technology as long as it is cutting edge and ahead of everybody else by a wide margin.
On 2nd thought —- I would also factor in if there are cutting edge technologies in other defense areas we are working with the Japanese on and the price they want for helping with the costs and technology is selling some version of the F-22. For example, I seem to remember hearing a couple of years ago that Japan and the US were working on a, if I remember correctly, laser device that could knock out incoming artillery. I don’t remember if it were laser technology, but it was for anti-artillery. If we had technology like that in the works with Japan —- something that could revolutionize other aspects of war fighting — like anti-ballistic missile systems — then I could compromise on stealth technology.
Japan should buy, buy and buy weapons to counter China. If Japan gets mighty strong and Koreans see they cannot beat Japan but face certain defeat, Koreans will join Japan’s side.
The old adage of “Can’t beat ‘em? Join ‘em.” works here.
Korea as a small player will side with the stronger of the two. Afer all, Koreans do not want to die for a losing side.
I would be surprised if the US actually goes through with this considering the tension in the area, especially with Korea. Maybe if they sold it to both. I also agree with the concern over technology being sold to China.
With the present administration, Korea is looked upon as a potential enemy.
I wonder if it is the avionics that come with such a plane that make it so formidable a weapon . . .
Selling it to Korea would be an amazingly bad move.
Selling it to either is a bad move.
Sell to Japan and make some money. $140 million per plane and maintenance and spare parts. Not a chicken feed.
Korea just has to make up its mind, or face destruction.
I wouldn’t want to sell it to either, unless it is going to hurt major joint research efforts with Japan on missile defense and any other system that could add as much weight to the positive as the negative of having the technology for the plane leak out of Japan —- or if France or another nation is on the threshold of getting the technology anyway.
Neither South Korea nor Japan has any urgent need to replace their fighter fleet. The F15K can remain reliable for for the ROKAF for the next decade or two, especially with the new APG-63(V)2 AESA upgrade. Japan’s F15J will continue to secure Jpn’s airspace for sometime also.
The South Korean navy already has it eyes set on the F-35B/C; but they’re not in any rush to get them. The ROKAF has interest in acquiring F35A and F-22/A, but hasn’t made any moves at this time.
“The overseas F-22 would cost only a bit more than the current F-2 they??e building, so why not? The Japanese could put the aircraft to good use as a China deterrent. Plus, they could easily take out Korea?? F-15Ks based on Cheju-do of they had to.”
F-22 is a air superiority fighter, not a fighter-bomber. F-35 would be perfect for that task.
FYI, that is also the reason why ROK chose F15K over the Rafael. People assumed that the ROKAF chose F15K because of US pressure, that is just not the case, the general public are just ignorant of what the ROKAF is looking for and are mixing up what kind of roles the Rafale and F15K plays in. The Korean air force right from the start wanted a fighter-bomber; Rafale is technically superior to the F15K in air-to-air combat, but its just a pure plane-killer and plus it would have brought a lot of uncertainties to the air force, most Korea’s weapons are US made and F15E certified. Although, Dassault has promised full weapons integration, many of the senior officers has their doubts that Rafale can fly as efficiently (since there’s no telling how the american weapons will effect the plane’s aerodynamics). F15K’s massive 25,000 pound payload and use wide variety of ammunitions such as the JDAMS and SLAM-ER missiles, is just the kind of thing they were looking for in case of NK bombardament.
“I wonder if it is the avionics that come with such a plane that make it so formidable a weapon . . .”
Its the AESA radar and the low radar cross section that is the highlight of the plane. Its RCS on radar is equal to a metal marble. It can detect and kill any plane in the world before being detected. The British Defense Evaluation and Research Agency conducted a simulation of the F-22 and other planes against the Su-27. Based on their research F-22 had the highest kill ratio of any plane (10 Su-27 killed versus 1 F-22), more then double the kill ratio of its closest competitor (European Typhoon).
For dogfighting, it has nozzel vectoring technology to match the manueverability of Su-37s. But speed and manueverability, isn’t that important in today’s engagements. There is only so much G-force and human body can take.
BTW this is just to get word around before the F-22 actual acquisition program is launched.
The age of the dogfight is over. With fire and forget you don’t need to be in harms way
we’re back to this one? ok. Japan and US have been intimately involved in the production of this aircraft. pratt and whitney is still a closed-inhouse company but lockheed martin sub-contracts to japanese companies extensively and this is no exception. per article 9 of their constitution they cannot utilize that development for economic gain without going through the parent company but nonetheless they have knowledge of the technology.
with that said I that YManchun is right on the money that Japan has no strategic interest in purchasing 22s. The Joint Fighter F-35s are right around the corner and offer more flexibility and more cutting edge techno. I’m not sure why globalsecurity.org doesn’t list it but Japan operates 2 squadrons of F-16s procured through a late 80s early 90s deal. The F-22 is the replacement for F-16s not F-15s and Japan has no need for air superiority fighters.
of course lockheed martin and pratt and whitney will try to sell to whoever, so if someone bites, tata…if they have their way they’ll sell Mr. Smith or Mr. Kim a bird if the price is right.