As you might imagine, Super Bowl MVP Hines Ward has become the object of the Korean media’s affection and a source of national pride–his name managed to become the No. 1 search word on at least one Korean Internet portal site. I don’t find this particularly odd, and at any rate, Ward’s story is truly inspirational. I know the Nomad and Cathartidae have commented on the media’s coverage of Mr. Ward, and Jodi sparked a pretty good discussion on Ward and what actually makes a Korean. Yes, there’s a lot of nationalist chest-thumping, but that doesn’t mean the media is totally oblivious to certain social realities. Point in case would be today’s edition of the JoongAng Ilbo (Korean), which ran a front page story this morning that analyzed the “Hines Ward Craze” and engaged in some rather sincere self-reflection over the hardships faced by mixed-race individuals in Korean society. It said:
There are also voices of reflection using the opportunity to call for the correction of mistaken perceptions of mixed-race individuals. It’s said that Ward experienced the hardship of ostracism from even Korean-American society because he was mixed-race. One netizen pointed out, “If Ward had continued to live in Korea, he would have been teased as a twigi (a Korean term of derision for mixed-race people) and would have been unable to properly attend school… We must end our society’s exclusionary ethnic nationalism that views mixed-race people through colored glasses.” There are even calls for us to learn the cultural inclusiveness of American society that made Ward’s success possible.
The secretary general of HiFamily.net, which is conducting a campaign to promote the rights of mixed-race Koreans, told the JoongAng he hoped the “Hines Ward Craze” would eventually lead to greater interest in the problems faced by mixed-race Koreans.
Meanwhile, Yonhap News (Korean) ran a lengthy piece today on how the media frenzy around Hines Ward’s story should focus attention on the realities faced by mixed-race Koreans. There are some 35,000 mixed-race individuals in Korea; 5,000 “Amerasians” born of Korean mothers and American military fathers, and 30,000 “Kosians” born of a Korean parent and a parent from another Asian nation. Historically, they can be divided into three “generations;” a first generation composed of GI-fathered Amerasians, a second generation that arose in the 1990s as more and more South and Southeast Asian men came to Korea in search of the “Korean Dream,” and a third generation born since 2000 of a rapidly increasing number of marriages between rural Korean fathers and Southeast Asian women.
According to the report, despite globalization and the appearance of mixed-race stars on TV (like Daniel Henny and Dennis Oh), attitudes concerning mixed-race Koreans are changing slowly in a society that puts primacy on ethnic purity. They are still treated much as “strangers” in many segments of society, with “first-generation” Amerasians born of African-American fathers suffering from particular hardship.
Mixed-race Koreans find it difficult to adjust to school, and hence find their educational opportunities limited. When they try to find jobs, they rank alongside the handicapped as the people companies would like to hire least. And there are differences even within the mixed-race community, with Koasians born of Korean fathers relatively better off thanks to things like better educational opportunities, while those born of foreign fathers like U.S. soldiers or migrant workers often experience more difficult economic circumstances.
Yonhap warned that with interest in Ward focusing more on his individual success story rather than on the problems faced by ordinary mixed-race Koreans unfairly treated in the society, such mixed-race people might feel yet again deprived. Lee Ji-yeong of the Pearl Buck Foundation told Yonhap:
“The problems faced by mixed-race Koreans won’t go away just because a couple of mixed-race entertainers grow popular or because people like Hines Ward gather attention… First the government must set proper policies, and then all people must take time to work together.”
A professor at SungKongHoe University warned that while interest in mixed-race stars was better than no interest at all, there was the danger that the minority of success stories might lead some to transfer responsibility for the failures from society onto the individuals.
141 Comments
As a white father of two mixed children (korean/canadian) I find this subject to be quite fascinating. Very interesting stuff from Jodi, too. Is it still difficult for mixed children to fit into a regular school here? I’ve been alright with the idea that they can go to a school here, but my wife is fairly insistent on taking them out of here when they reach elementary school age. Anyone with experience in this area, can you share your thoughts and opinions?
The simple fact is, if Hines Ward couldn’t catch footballs and run, and he came back to the “motherland” for a visit with his Korean mother, he would be treated just like every other mixed Korean/black:
Like a piece of shit, unworthy of a fair shake from people who refuse to see past his “dirty” heritage and would rather have their precious, pure, Korean daughters commit suicide than mix with the unclean.
Sure, Koreans will use Ward to fuel their master-race fantasies from afar. But ask them if they’d want him to be part of their families or a father to their grandchildren, and all that chest-thumping would turn to uncomfortable silence.
Maybe the Pearl Buck Foundation can set up a special screening of “Address Unknown” for Ward while he’s in Korea.
I don’t know if it’s so much of Koreans feeling that they are the master race, or if it’s more of ignorance? Working out here in the South of Jeolla, it occured to me that not many people have had even the slightest contact with a foreigner.
Instead of reaching out to find out more about the foreigner, many (as I have found), just choose to shy away and rather live with the stereotypes passed down to them through media and word of mouth…
Was asking my Korean girlfriend about the different standards of treatment to some of these kids of mixed parentage. The answer was simply “No such problem”. There simply is no awareness, or even the urge to find out the real situation!
I personally don’t think the things will go on and get all cheery-happy anytime soon. But news of some (though small) sprouting of awareness and realisation of how shitty children of mixed-parentage have it, is certainly welcome in my books.
The simple fact is, if Hines Ward couldn?? catch footballs and run, and he came back to the ??otherland??for a visit with his Korean mother, he would be treated just like every other mixed Korean/black:
Like a piece of shit, unworthy of a fair shake from people who refuse to see past his ??irty??heritage and would rather have their precious, pure, Korean daughters commit suicide than mix with the unclean.
Sure, Koreans will use Ward to fuel their master-race fantasies from afar. But ask them if they?? want him to be part of their families or a father to their grandchildren, and all that chest-thumping would turn to uncomfortable silence.
Maybe the Pearl Buck Foundation can set up a special screening of ??ddress Unknown??for Ward while he?? in Korea.
============================================
iheartblueballs is completely right on the money. Even with but an inkling of Korean blood, those who make it big are instantly feted as “?????” Those who don’t are just (according to a racist Korean acquaintance of mine) “??? ??? ??”
Koreans pat themselves on the back for being so international about accepting those of mixed heritage yet they export thousands of orphans to Western nations every year. When these kids, many of which are of mixed heritage, come of age they’ll receive one of the two types of treatment received above.
I happen to know quite a few foreigners who are married to Korean women in Seoul, and the way their wives are treated makes me retch. One of my friend’s wives was called a “fucking slut” by the security guard in her apartment for an entire year. I don’t why she never sued that racist sack of shit.
I will be marrying a Korean woman myself pretty soon, but am thinking about raising my children as “just Americans” because I don’t want them to be disappointed with Korea should they ever come back.
Snow, listen to your wife. In all my years in Korea, I didn’t know a single mixed couple who kept their children in a public school for more than a few months. Many were idealistic (or ignorant) like yourself and tried, but the constant ridicule and wangtta treatment (from both kids AND teachers) had them running to international schools or back to their home countries in no time.
The reason your wife is hesitant to put your kids through the Korean school system is because she went through it, and knows what kind of hell your kids would be in for. Trust her and don’t use your kids as guinea pigs for your own lofty ideals.
What is the name of that female, older rock singer?
I don’t know a whole lot about her, but what I do makes be believe she is someone who should be championed by the Korean media as a mixed race Korean. She is a true Korean. She was raised in the nation and culture. She was also an orphan. She also has one hell of a singing voice. And what I know about her comes from the bits and pieces I’ve caught over the years of her doing charity work for orphanages. I’ve seen enough of those over the years that it seems like she is doing it from the heart and not some brief flirt with the idea or some publicity stunt. I also saw where she was part of the concert to promote NK Human Rights the week of the conference.
That is someone for Korea to admire.
Here’s our story. I hope it provides some wisdom to others in a similiar situation.
We’ve just moved back to Australia after several years in Korea with our two young Korean/Aussie kids. We exposed our kids to all that is positive about being there and have extracted them before the negative begins. My son aged 5 speaks Korean fluently. Unfortunately, he was being called Dung-kae in the bathhouse. He thought it was funny as all heck and became his new favourite word. Although for much longer my wife was tired of the ‘nice’ comments about how cute [different] they looked. It’s easy to see that when the voyers are kids in a school yard, the comments will have a very different tone.
Regarding non-Korean school options. Who wants to pay $10-15k US per kid per year for an international school? Not me.
In the end, I’m extremely pleased with the outcome of our stay in Korea. Our eldest kid speaks Korean at home and with all our Korean friends in Australia. They’ve both developed close bonds with their Korean cousins, aunts/uncles and grandparents.
We will consider living there again once the kids have developed their own identity in a positive cultural environment. They are treated just as Korean here as their ‘regular’ Korean playmates. I suspect they will feel similiarly awkward upon returning to Korea as regular Korean- American kids do.
The Koreans I know seem ignorant at worst, not maliciously racist. They simply fail to recognise the damage their ignorance can cause. My hat goes off to all the organisations in Korea which support children of mixed race. I too can’t see Korea getting any better soon and feel very fortunate that my kids have better alternatives.
Regarding non-Korean school options. Who wants to pay $10-15k US per kid per year for an international school? Not me.
It should not be this way. If mixed-race kids or non-Korean kids cannot feel secure in the public school system, then the public school system should be doing something about this. After all, the parents of these kids are also tax-paying residents.
Yeah, some will say they don’t care, but I think the problem is a lack of awareness of the problem. Those who realize that less-than-100% Korean kids can easily get ostracized or abused believe that sending those kids to international schools is an option. What they don’t realize is the incredible expense or the fact that some of the schools don’t allow in just any applicant with foreign citizenship.
I and a few people I have talked to have long thought that it would be good for lower-income international residents (i.e., those not earning what would be six-digit salaries back in the US, or the equivalent in other countries) to pool their resources and make a “charter school” of sorts. Hiring a few credentialed professional teachers and getting space would not be that hard to accomplish. Certainly there are already a lot of parents “home schooling” their kids here simply because they can’t afford international school tuition.
I’m not married and I have no kids, but were I to return to Korea after my PhD studies are over, I would certainly want to get involved in setting something like this up.
What is the name of that female, older rock singer?
?????/a>.
I don?? know a whole lot about her, but what I do makes be believe she is someone who should be championed by the Korean media as a mixed race Korean.
She is.
Please excuse my countrymen. Korea may be technologically advanced but culturally it is stuck at 1920s’ America. Koreans, kids and grownups alike, relish the experience of putting down other people with different background, skin colors or with disability. Call it racism if you will. This attitude is definitely a part of Korean lifestyle.
Harsh environment gives rise to harsh men - men who like to show off their fitness to the world of survival. Koreans have been living under harsh circumstances before and ever since Korean War. They do not have room in their minds for minor issues like fair treatment of foreigners.
What is necessary is a national emergency of some sort and change of attitude ensuing from the event. America has gone through such experience in 1960s. And, the lesson is still continuing and expanding even to this day.
Korea needs a historical lesson of this kind. It should have learned the lesson during Korean War, with the help it got from other nations, but has forgotten the lesson since then. NorKs and Commies in the South insist that Korea should continue to live as hermits. Commies, after all, are just backward isolationists who insist on terminating contacts with all foreigners.
I believe the Chinese and the Japanese share this trait of extreme isolationism. Koreans even look at these Asian brothers to be “foreigners”, who are not to be mixed with.
A very bad attitude to have in this time of “global economy”.
Korea needs to change and change fast in this arena. Yet, the change of national attitude will only come when there is strong impetus to change. I do not see it happening soon.
Get ready for more food for reflection: My morning Washington Post (Feb
tells me that Amerie, “an Army brat of Korean and African heritage who finished high school in Alaska” is up for two Grammys tonight.
Maybe Korea can become a hub of miscegenation, with a special role for the evil Dr Hwang in creating interesting mixes.
baduk, 1920’s America hanged blacks, it was against law for visible minorities to marry whites. 1920’s America, it was normal to call blacks ‘niggers’, ‘negroes’, and it was normal to call Chinese as ‘chinaman’. 1920’s America was all white all through and through and it was very dangerous for racially different people who were often killed on a whim of the mob. It was only the 1960’s - only 40 years ago that the racial minority were even allowed to vote. It wasn’t long ago now. Now we see the holier than thou attitude from the same crowd whose parents and grandparents who acted far worse than any worst Korean that they could imagine. 1920’s America? Give me a break baduk.
What is the basis of Koreans feelings that they are superior to whites? I would really like to know.
If it is just “pure blood”, should I accept that a pureblood greyhound with a long and impeccable pedigree is my superior? Of course not.
Yes, Cm, I am more holy than Koreans today when it comes to race issues.
We might view South Korea in a less harsh light if we consider the infanticide or forced abortion that would be the fate of mixed race child in North Korea.
I don’t know dude. Last time I checked, Robert Jenkins’s two grown daughters seemed to be alive and well.
No need to apologize, Baduk, for our fellow countrymen’s behavior. Because if you are gonna apologize for the mistreatment of mixed-race offspring in Korea, or in an abstract generalization sense, the mistreatment of anyone who just happens to be “different”, then you would need to apologize for the whole of humanity. I don’t know of any nation where minorities aren’t treated badly in some way, and that includes the good ole US of A, the land of freedom, equality, and all that jazz. Cultural chauvinism, bigotry, and prejudice are an inevitable part of human nature and Koreans are no exceptions.
I’d like to submit my own Jaemi-Kyopo’s POV. I can relate to the plight of mixed race children in Korea because when I was growing in the US, I had to endure my share of *chink* ridicule from schoolmate, apathy/non-understanding of teachers, etc. I’m sure you know how it is without me going into all the gory details.
My parents understood what was happening. They taught me that because I looked Asian, I would never be fully accepted as 100% American, no matter how well I spoke English or how long I’ve lived here. When push came to shove, I had to throw down my things and fight, sometimes literally, for dignity and respect, instead of just taking it for granted. I had to work several times harder than an average American in order to achieve parity or get ahead. My parents’s advice was cold, realistic, and practical.
Contrast this to the whiny, belly-aching, moan-fest of expats that’s already going on. It is my general impression that expats, especially the white ones, make very poor minorities. There is something about the whites’s sense of entitlement that leads them to believe that they are automatically privileged to rights, even when they are in another country, instead of having to fight and struggle for rights like all other kinds of minorities have had to do. My parents never played the race card. They didnt talk about setting up “special” schools, or pulling their kids out and sheltering them in a more “friendly” environment. They said to me: son, you will stay in that hostile environment that you are in and you will learn to survive, goddamit.
“I don?? know dude. Last time I checked, Robert Jenkins?? two grown daughters seemed to be alive and well.”
They were (relatively) cossetted foreigners, whose American and Japanese parents didn’t commit the sin of mixing Korean blood.
What’s even more ridiculous is that Kyopos are criticized harshly too. Though not as bad as mixed races, Kyopos are still treated as outsiders by many Koreans. I hear a lot of bad stories from my friends who went to Korea during vacations. Personally, I never experienced much hardships when I lived in Korea from Kindergarten to 2nd grade. All the neighborhood kids knew me as the ‘American Kid’ which made me pretty popular, plus I used to attend Seoul International School.
Koreans need to pull their head out of their ass and start becoming more tolerant. They claim to be world-class and part of the global community but that’s just flies out the damn window if they become ignorant bastards. All that claim of the “pure Korean blood” is an understatement. Besides the migrations from China and Mongolia, the established Korean Kingdoms were still conquered and occupied by Chinese, Mongol Hordes and Japanese.
‘in sun yi is an orphan…’
i don’t believe in sun yi is an orphan; i beleive she’s one of those children whose father just up and left. funny how none of you speak about the issue of western fathers not taking care of the children they make.
‘now we see the hollier than thou attitude from the same crowd whose parents and grandparents committed some of the worst racial atrocities…’
got that right but the expat doesn’t want to think about that since it’s inconvenient. the fact of the matter is, when it comes to racial hatred and the like, white folk take the cake. they just don’t like to admit that; it gets in the way of their whining about the ‘atrocities’ of korean racism.
‘there is something about whites’ sense of entitlement…’
i’ve always said that the expat thinks he’s special simply because he’s white. i’m glad others can see this.
‘koreans don’t see mxed race children as korean…’
perhaps they don’t see them as korean since they’re not korean. is a half white child white? the australien who posted above speaks as if his children are korean, isn’t he doing the same thing koreans do in that he doesn’t see his chlidren as white just as koreans do not see a mixed race child as korean?
and the 64,000 dollar question:
how many of you expats see halle berry as a white chick?
that’s what i thought.
Nulji has such a gift for debate degradation that he would have to be invented if he didn’t exist, if only to prove that things can ALWAYS go further downhill.
OK, but you see, the utter lack of empirical substantiation to your proctologically originated assertion leaves lots of nagging doubt. Tell you what, why don’t you offer yourself to the cause of further researching this thought experiment, emigrate to North Korea, find a nice North Korean lady, impregnate her and have a child, and let us know how it goes. Good luck and godspeed.
all talk of korea being “world class” and “part of the global community” can be boiled down to one thing at this point: korea buys lots of raw resources, builds things with them and sells them globally. that’s the end of their global involvement. there is no global mindset nor experience with foreign culture in a real sense. don’t expect to get gold from lead.
I don?? know if it?? so much of Koreans feeling that they are the master race, or if it?? more of ignorance?
The Koreans I know seem ignorant at worst, not maliciously racist.
I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but all racism is rooted in ignorance. Modern day Korea is not a sub-Saharan African village getting its first look at a white man. To the contrary, it bills itself as the Hub of Asia, the IT Capital of the World, and a leading host city for international events like the Olympics and the World Cup, among other boasts of globalization.
The Korean mindset is fully aware of the outside world and the myriad of inferior ethnicities inherent within. It’s not as if Korean parents are telling their sons and daughters to only marry Koreans because they “lack enough information” about other ethnicities to make an informed decision. And continually rationalizing and apologizing for that mindset with claims of ignorance doesn’t help anyone, least of all Koreans.
1. What do economic terms have to do with identity politics?
2. Which is better or worse?
Billing oneself as the “Hub of Asia”, “IT capital”, etc. and failing at “multicultural sensitivity”
OR
Billing oneself as “The Beacon of Freedom”, “Land of Equality and Home of the Brave”, etc. and failing at “multicultural sensitivity”?
The last thing you want is an artificial culture of Political Correctness to enter into the Korean consciousness. I’d rather deal with a blatent bigot who is unapologetic and unafraid to speak his mind than a stealth racist who hides under a facade of well-versed fake PCness.
You gotta laugh when an average expat in Korea bills himself a Crusader of Equality. Where the hell were you guys back home?
Finally, I’d like to share some nuggets of wisdom that I’ve heard from many white people whenever minorities start whining and playing the race card:
1. “Just lighten up and deal with it”
2. “Well if you dont like it here then go back to your own country”
Hope that helps.
“I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but all racism is rooted in ignorance.”
You follow this with valid points. However, it?? a fallacy to say that all ignorance is racism.
My in-laws feared a couple of things, out of ignorance.
1. They heard that divorce rates among western societies are very high and their daughter may be abandoned on a foreign shore, beyond their help. This was the case with Ward’s mother.
2. Foreigners can’t speak Korean, so how can they get to know me or my family and hence build a strong/trusting relationship?
3. They also didn’t know that, she has better rights and opportunity to education and employment in Australia than in Korea. I assume, Hines?? mother didn’t return to Korea after she gained custody of her son, not just because of the better opportunities for her him, but for her too. However, I know very little about the US.
These points of ignorance lead them to fear the worst when their daughter brings home Johnny English to meet the Faukers. And before all the flamers jump out, this case is isolated to our unique circumstance. It would no doubt be different if I were of pure Pakistani blood, instead of just 12.5%.
My experience to date leads me to feel it?? less an issue of blood than one of language and culture. But that’s a whole ‘nutha can of worms.
If Hines Ward couldn’t catch a football, what would he be doing today? An executive at a multi national conglomerate? Yeah right. How much better off would he be if he was still living in Korea? At least in Korea, he wouldn’t get addicted to crack, get shot, nor get arrested by police and his head pounded into a window just for being a black. Yes Korea has its problems. But it never pretended that it wants, nor claims it’s a beacon of multicultralism. That’s the biggest difference.
I think a lot of people in this board need to get off the high horse that they ride on. Many visible minorities would disagree that you have achieved racial equality and end to prejudice. Ironically it was colonialism and western greed that improved the lives of non whites. For instance, it was American greed that brought in the slaves from Africa. Subsequently it was the African Americans and their struggles which improved the situation for the immigrants who followed them. It was people like Dr.Martin Luther King who were the heroes, not some white guy from Minnesota who used to flip burgers at home, and who is now teaching English at a hagwon earning 2 million won a month. I mean if you want to see what it would have looked like if western countries didn’t end up prosperous by exploiting colonialism, just look at Eastern Europe. Suddenly it doesn’t look so racially progressive does it? I mean the white guys didn’t just one day sat up and said “holy shit what we’re doing is racism, we have to stop and change”. Something must have happened to forced them to change for the better. If Whites think so terribly of Koreans as racist assholes, then they can do something about it. They could do the same things the minorities did in America - protest and fight for what is right. But I doubt this will ever happen for these reasons:
1) Most foreigners are transitory, most have no interest in putting down roots in Korea. The first problems they encounter (which they never ecountered before at home), they can’t take it and just leave to go back home. Pampered and spoilt, not being used to be a racial minority, they’re good at whining but can’t protest to the right group because they can’t speak the local language nor have the interest to communicate with the locals. Just flaming them ad nauseam, or preaching to the same choir is the easiest copout. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, they can’t handle it.
2) They like the discrimination that favors them. Positive discrimination that gives them preferential treatment because of their race. They like it and don’t want to see that dissappear. Have you ever seen a white guy complain about why they got that job in the first place (because he’s white and speaks own language that he was born with)? Nope.
And dogbert, you’re the one to talk. You’re the same dude who were defending racial riots in Australia. This question is right back at you. What makes you think whites are superior to everyone else?
“better opportunities for her him”??
WTF? As soon as she arrvied, she had her kid taken away from her because the court said she couldn’t speak the language and that she wasn’t going to hold a job. If that’s not racism, what is? She worked her ass off washing dishes and cleaning bathrooms. Oh great opportunity that Korea didn’t have. Wow I’m impressed. In other words she didn’t whine, cry and give up saying the world is cruel then go home in a huff and a puff. Instead she pulled herself up by her own bootstraps. American society didn’t give her nothing, she created her own opportunity. Like I said, if Ward didn’t catch a football for a living, there’s a chance that he could have ended up being on crack, or be just one of one million African Americans in prison.
Not me. Rather, I see her as a damn fine woman. Usually No. 2 on my list after Monica Bellucci. Just something about Italian chicks. Probably has to do with being raised on Long Island.
Sorry for that completely irrelevant aside. I’ll let you get back to your conversation.
Bluejives–It is interesting to note that the stories linked above (and the JoongAng did another front page piece on the subject this morning, which I’ll probably translate and link later) focused on the stories of mixed-race Koreans rather than those of expat children, many of whom do live rather privledged existences (i.e., opportunities and the money to go to foreign school, etc.). The mixed-race entertainers that have recently grown famous are, by and large, cases in point–U.S. citizens (with tenuous commands of Korean at best) with white fathers. The point being, I wouldn’t want to lump expat kids into this discussion, since the circumstances they face is quite different from those faced by, say, abandoned GI kids or the children of guestworkers.
Bingo
That is correct Robert. The so called racism in Korea in reality more resembles discrimination based on economic class. It has little to do with Koreans supposedly believing they are the master race, as claimed by many here.
“As soon as she arrvied, she had her kid taken away from her because the court said she couldn?? speak the language and that she wasn?? going to hold a job.”
You seem to be selectively picking arguements rather than picking the point.
1. I don’t see the racism in the court’s decision. It’s an economic reality. Then when she proved otherwise, she was able to keep him. No doubt, there are many other issues in his story, but racist courts?, I think not.
2. My (very non-white) Korean wife is the one who wanted to get out of the country. It is she who felt the racism.
You floggers are quick to make personal attacks based on limited facts.
3. Has anyone got the stats on the number of Koreans leaving there motherland as compared to Westerners gaining Korean citizenship? It is not just us ‘whitey wimps’ bugging out of the ROK.
cm–I wouldn’t necessarily go that far, either. Race is a major factor–most Korean discussion of this subject I’ve read readily admits to such. I.e., you can be born poor and still have a fighting chance of making a living, but if you’re born poor and of mixed-race, you can forget about it. Granted, it has little to do with Koreans believing that they are a “master race,” but rather because the society has traditionally placed high value on ethnic purity. Obviously, if you’re socio-economically privledged, you can beat the system, especially if you’re transitory, in which case you’re not really part of the system. Not permanently, anyway.
I don’t mean to slag on Korean society for this issue. Obviously, it’s not alone in dealing with race, and moreover, it’s relatively new at it. And moreover, there’s growing awareness of the problem–there was a commercial campaign last year, and Hines Ward seems to be sparking a lot of media self-reflection.
I believe you’re confusing me with someone else. However, I think white Australians had a right to be upset when out of the goodness of their hearts they offer a place to live to refugee Arabs who then repay that kindness by targetting underage white women for rape and murder.
Mastered manned flight…check
Conquered space…check
Mapped the oceans…check
Internal combustion engine…check
Harnessed electricity…check
Radio and telegraphic communication…check
And so on.
What gives Koreans the right to look down on such achievement, which indeed has shaped the world Koreans themselves live in?
And for anyone who thinks only white expats “whine”, feel free to visit http:\\www.thefighting44s.com where Asian-Americans, including bluejives, hold a daily hate-fest.
I guess at this point it, it would be rude of me to ask that the discussion move back on topic. I don’t need another racial flame war.
How many of the people posting on the atrocities of Korean Racism are English teachers with no proper teaching degrees? On one hand, people think that racism is bad cos they are being called names but on the other hand they seem to forget that the same racism has given them jobs. You might wanna talk to Black and Brown guys who are more qualified to teach, but never stand a chance of getting a job in Korea, about racism here.
To be frank, Korea might be one of the most racist?? country out there but to say other countries don?? suffer from it, is ignorance. In Korea, you are probably looked down upon if you are not pure Korean but atleast you are not spat on or given the finger. Every single person is prejudiced. So I believe every country has its problem with racism in its own way. In Seoul, a white person might have more advantages that a brown. In Middle East, a brown guy may get more than a black person. In South Africa, a black person might get more than a White.
Dogbertt,
?? think white Australians had a right to be upset when out of the goodness of their hearts they offer a place to live to refugee Arabs who then repay that kindness by targetting underage white women for rape and murder.??n
So whites were really kind to aborigines when they snatched their land? How do you define nationality? What if a 1st gen Arab Australian targets white women? C??on, Australia is worse for colored people than any other place in the world.
Mastered manned flight??ASA has more Indian and Chinese ethnicity engineers than they have ??hite??engineers.
Mapped the oceans??ow are Spanish and Portuguese ??hite?? Or are they white just cos they are Europeans.
There are great inventions, advancements in every field done by great people and not just ??hites??and to make it look like that ??hites??are a superior race reaps of Racism.
“OK, but you see, the utter lack of empirical substantiation to your proctologically originated assertion leaves lots of nagging doubt.”
I’m sorry if you are being nagged by doubt, but you could have simply admitted that the rarified and bizarre case of defector “talento” Charles Jenkins and his kidnapped wife was about as relevant as Nulji “proctologically originating” his Halle Berry analogy — and then you could have removed that nagging doubt by looking looking into refugee testimony about the fate of North Korean talbukja women who have the misfortune of being returned to North Korea from China pregnant.
If you are indeed a “news junkie”, you need a more dependable dealer.
Just wanted to point out that the American Revolution was the beginning of the end of slavery in what is now the USA.
I think the North Koreans are quite open about what they think about sullying the bloodlines.
If Australia is so bad for ‘colored people’, then why do non-whites keep trying to come here, even illegally? It is funny how people can call Australia the worst while waiting in line for a visa.
I’m not saying that whites are better than Koreans. I’m asking why Koreans, to a man, believe that they are better than other races. So far, it all seems to come down to “pure blood”, which, as I point out, is great in a greyhound, but still does not make it my superior.
BTW, I know it does not fit into the kyopo Weltanschauung, but I for one am not only not an Engrishi teacher, I am dependent upon Koreans for my daily bread, so no, Korean racism has not given me a job.
That should read “not dependent”.
Korean people are being confronted by their own ignorance. On the one hand they want to feel proud of Hines, while also harbouring anti-black and anti- mixed race sentiment.
Like the US, Australia has a poor racial track record, including the infamous white Australia policy which lasted until the 1970’s. In fact, most of the human rights and equal opportunity legislation was enacted after 1975. I’m no law buff, but ..
Racial Discrim. Act 1975
Sexual Discrim. Act 1984
Disability Discrim. Act 1992
Human Rights and Equal Opp. Act 1986
[sourced from the Weekend Australian]
All nations/societies are somewhere on a continuum of enlightenment. Some even slip back a notch.
It takes public demonstration to influence the law. This should decrease overt racism, but it takes a lot longer for society to stamp out the covert discrimination. Ethnic Asian and Arab people in Australia certainly do suffer overt and covert racism. Anyone remember Pauline Hanson and the One Nation party? Classic.
What is it going to take to improve the lot for these kids?
- improved rights for labor workers; visas, social services..leads to job security for the fathers
- legalise prostitution; decrease loan sharking, so mothers of mixed children can get off the game, if they wish
I am not saying Englsih teachers are bad or its a bad job or anything like that. I am saying that for lots of English teachers,their only qualiication is that they are white. That is a sort of rasicm. I work in Korea but it doesnt mean that I am dependent on Koreans for my daily food. My company is just as dependent on my work.
Immigration has nothing to do with a countrys level of racism. People have other things to worry about like survival, food and rasicm is pretty bottom down the list for any person. So number of people standing in a line for a Visa doesnt depend on Racism levels.
BTW Aus belonged to aborgines before England decided to setup a penal colony on its shore. Aus like any other country belongs to its citizens, irrespective of whether that person is white ,black or 1st generation brown kid.
Nothing to do with it, huh? So how many Jews were lining up to go to Germany in the 1930’s?
Taking shakuhachi’s argument then:
If Korea is such a hell on earth, why is it that there are so many that want to come so badly? The number is exponentially growing every year, and if Korea one day finally has an immigration policy, I’d probably would have to say that the lineup outside the Korean consulate in the Phillipines will be much longer. If Korea is the only racist country on earth, and people are deathly afraid of Korean racism, why would there be anybody who wants to enter Korea? Shouldn’t they stay away?
well did u see japaneese lining up to go to US in the 1940s?
Jew is not a race,its a religion.
Actually, that is not my argument since I am not bothered too much by Korean ‘racism’, which is more like hyper-ethnocentrism more than anything.
If people are coming to Korea then it is probably because the benefits far outwiegh the disadvantages. itend said that Australia is the worst country on earth for racism towards non-whites, and I disagreed by pointing out that people were disproving him by voting with their feet. I did not bring up any comparisons to Korea, so I dont know why you are making them in relation to my argument.
I am an Australian from SE Asian background (first generation migrant) and I can think of many worse countries for minority to live in, and honestly Korea is high on that list. This is especially true for mixed race people, mixed race children in Australia are generally accepted as ‘one of us’ by both sides. I have nothing against the Koreans, in fact I really like the country and I would love to visit it again for holiday, but I think Koreans still have an awful lot to work on in this issue.
Sure there are racist rednecks here (just like in any countries), but they are in the minority and most whites I know condemn the racist riots in Sydney. I don’t buy Dogbert’s defence of them, a handful of Arabs rapists and a few thugs on the beach does not mean the whole community deserve to be targeted. The actions of those morons in Sydney are unjustifiable in civilised world.
I thought Ward hadn’t been back to Korea since he was a baby, but it seems he was here in 1998?
“Since he was young, he always got along well with the other Korean and Vietnamese kids. It seems like he does have some pride in his Korean blood. But we’ve also been hurt as Koreans. When Hines was in high school, there was an inter-school friendship match for the Korean students. Since he was good at baseball, a school invited him to play. But after the game, when the kids went out to eat, the person who put together the event only took the Korean kids, leaving Hines behind (Ward is of mixed parentage, his father an African-American). After that I told Hines to never hang out with Korean kids. Yet when we went to Korea in ‘98, even Korean people who looked educated spat when we walked by. Koreans judge others based on their appearance and their age. Those kinds of Koreans think that they are so special?? (his mother)
dogbertt,
The way in which you ascribe all of the last century’s major innovations to white people requires a bit more thought. None of these advances would not have been possible without solid grounding in mathematics, astronomy, and navigation provided by the Chinese and Arabs provided for the many centuries prior.
bluejives,
It does seem that white expats, because they experience so little (or no) discrimination in their home countries, are like fish out of water when they land on foreign shores. I’ve been denied housing in Korea because I’m a foreigner, but I’ve also been subjected to things so much worse for the 23 years that I lived in the U.S. that I usually quickly forget unpleasant things like this when they happen to me in Korea. In contrast, one of my white expat friends had a major reaction to being ignored by Koreans even when he spoke in passable Korean because they “couldn’t deal with his foreign accent.” That experience shocked him so much he didn’t say a word for three days. I sympathized with him but also inwardly felt, “Dude, you ain’t experienced shit. This is just the tip of the iceberg, homeboy.” It wasn’t as if he had gotten the shit knocked out of him, been subjected to racial slurs on every occasion, or roughed up by the police for no reason–things most minorities are quite familiar with in America.
usinkorea,
Forgot the old Korean singer, dude. Tell Robert Harley and Lee what’s-his-face (the old foreigner who keeps changing his name) to stand up and say something about Korea’s double standard towards those of mixed heritage.
Conquered space??heck
My Asian relatives and friends at NASA since the days of Apollo and the Space Shuttle and their Black colleagues would probably say, “Whoa, wait a minute.”
This is a really stupid discussion.
Robert the Marmot has pointed out Korean-Koreans who are using Hines Ward as a way to educate the public on the plight of non-famous mixed-race Koreans and a bunch of people are talking about how Koreans are just using Hines Ward “to fuel their master-race fantasies from afar.” Did you even bother reading what Robert the Marmot wrote?
One other thing: it’s always really ridiculous for members of the majority in Country A to tell people in the majority of Country B how much worse minorities in Country B have it than minorities in Country A (or how much better minorities in Country A have it than minorities in Country B).
Very few ethnic Koreans have any clue what it’s like to be living in Korea as a mixed-race or completely non-Korean person; similarly, very few White Americans (or Canadians, Australians, etc.) have any idea what it’s like to be non-White in the U.S. (or some other home countries).
Since so many seem to have missed it, I’m going to highlight something from the Marmot’s post above:
That was on the front page of the Korean-language edition of the Joongang Ilbo.
(Third time’s a charm. I’ll take 2 minutes in the box as punishment.)
Look what comes out of the woodwork when faced with the contradiction of Hines Ward. Strawmen, misdirection, fingerpointing at the West, and tales of racism to tug at the heart strings. Before I get to those, here is the central issue with Ward and the fascination of the Korean media and people with his success (in a magnificent run-on sentence):
It is not only ridiculous, but patently offensive and hypocritical to see articles in the Korean media raving about Ward and his Koreanness, while quoting Kims on the street saying how proud they are of Ward and his accomplishments, when the very simple and undeniable fact is that the overwhelming majority of Korean people are absolutely ASHAMED of mixed-ethnicity people of Ward?? heritage. Under normal circumstances without having known about his success, the average Korean turns down their nose at mixed Koreans like Ward, subjecting he and others like him to ridicule, abuse, and prejudice at every turn. To now hold him up as an exemplary Korean while regularly and openly denigrating thousands of others exactly like him without the football resume is ??for lack of a better term ??fucking horseshit.
If any of you defenders of the faith would like to deal with that contradiction, open up, because I haven?? seen a single post dealing with THAT contradiction yet.
Now for the other strawmen and misdirection.
If Korea is such a hell on earth.
No one claimed Korea is a hell on earth, not once. It is possible to point out the hypocrisy and racism of Korea without resorting to that extreme. Strawman exposed.
If Korea is the only racist country on earth, and people are deathly afraid of Korean racism, why would there be anybody who wants to enter Korea?
Show me one person that claimed that Korea is the only racist country on earth. After you fail at that, show me one person that claimed that they are deathly afraid of Korean racism. After you fail there, strike two more strawmen off your list.
Racism exists in every country on earth, and pointing out racism in Korea is not a de facto argument that zero racism exists in the West. Simple minds follow that logic because they don?? want to face the real argument. That real argument is in the degree, the penetration, the level to which it is socially acceptable, and the amount of effort that is put into eliminating racism. Pointing to racism in the US or in the West is not an answer, it is an avoidance technique for a guilty conscience. On all 4 counts, Korea lags far behind the average Western country. The degree is higher, the penetration is deeper, it is far more socially acceptable, and there is very little effort put into eliminating/decreasing it.
I?? rather deal with a blatent bigot who is unapologetic and unafraid to speak his mind than a stealth racist who hides under a facade of well-versed fake PCness.
And I would rather have a culture that attempts to deal with racism, even if there are failures and some well-versed fake PCness, because there are also many successes and improvements resulting from the effort which will make it a more tolerant society in the long run??than I would like an entire culture of blatant bigots who are unapologetic, unafraid, and absolutely unmotivated and unwilling to attempt to change their bigotry for the sole reason that being prejudiced and racist is seen as completely normal and there is little or no effort put into change.
1. ??ust lighten up and deal with it??r
2. ??ell if you dont like it here then go back to your own country??/I>
Or you could sue, because there are laws and protections put in place to deal with the problem. You know, one of those side-effects of that ??ell-versed fake Pcness??that you were so ready to criticize, but which do not exist in Korea. Once again, degree.
Hope that helps.
After that I told Hines to never hang out with Korean kids. Yet when we went to Korea in ??8, even Korean people who looked educated spat when we walked by. Koreans judge others based on their appearance and their age. Those kinds of Koreans think that they are so special??
It sounds like Ward?? mother knows the prejudices of Koreans all too well, and she will very likely get a kick out of watching the same ignorant douchebags who spat at the presence of her son a few years back, now fawn over him because he?? become a checkmark in the column of international Korean athletic superiority.
Yes Ms. Ward, they may have looked educated, but unfortunately they were educated to be unapologetic, unafraid bigots.
Just as bluejives wants it.
iheartblueballs, you’re a real spoilsport
Ward’s success has had the knock-on effect of making mixed-race children a media topic and bringing some introspection, like in this Chosun cartoon.
It’s a start, but as iheartblueballs was saying, the next step is to institute laws and protections so that Ward’s example doesn’t go for naught.
Even if I were to accept that, funny we were the ones able to revolutionize the world with them, but fine.
No one has yet answered my question, which is: “What is the basis for Koreans’ belief in their race’s/ethnic group’s/nation’s supremacy?”
Kushibo, you really do like to portray yourself as the Zelig of our age, don’t you?
OK, answer me this: on the one hand, we have posters claiming that the U.S. pre-1964 was a horribly racist place, where minorities couldn’t get a fair shake. How then could there have been any significant number of Asians and blacks doing essential work on the Apollo program?
Or let’s take Sputnik? How many non-white scientists worked on that?
Spin, spin, spin, spin…
it doesn’t make it superior as it is a different species…
however, you do point to something interesting albeit controversial. we could be dealing with a vicious cycle within a race of peoples.
purebred animals are known to have both physical and mental disorders on account of overbreeding. anyone who’s ever spent time around thoroughbreds or dalmations will have first hand experience of this.
if we were to look at the limited gene pool within the korean race there is what may be similar (obviously, a geneticist could speak to similarities and differences between the korean gene pool and other limited gene pools). perhaps there is then a causation (as the correlation is already implied) between the homogeneity of the race and the belief in superiority (or insecurity). the cycle is thus a genetic cause for fear of breeding with other races which reinforces the genetic basis ad nauseum. structure->function->structure->function…
Kushibo, you really do like to portray yourself as the Zelig of our age, don?? you?
What? I’ve had non-WASPy family in the United States for a long time. What of it?
OK, answer me this: on the one hand, we have posters claiming that the U.S. pre-1964 was a horribly racist place, where minorities couldn?? get a fair shake.
Hey, I didn’t make that claim. I would never have suggested no minority member could ever get a fair shake. Obviously there were exceptions, though those exceptions don’t mean a majority of minority members had everything coming up roses.
How then could there have been any significant number of Asians and blacks doing essential work on the Apollo program?
I don’t know. But I do know some, and I know a lot more who worked on the Space Shuttle and GPS, etc.
And they would certainly take exception to this American success being labeled a White accomplishment.
ah, but korean women don’t really seem to care too much about mixed children unless it upsets men (from the husband on down to the spittin’ shopkeeper). would that be attributable to confucianism, a genetic predispostion only in men or something else?
Kusibo says:
Attay boy, Korea; way to go!
It?? a start, but as iheartblueballs was saying, the next step is to institute laws and protections so that Ward?? example doesn?? go for naught.
Yeah, let’s do that, just like in the West. I’m sure everyone on this blog would absolutely agree with that.
Just what kind of laws are you suggesting?
OK, Kushibo, I’ll just swallow your claims whole. Now, can you answer my question?
Robert the Marmot has pointed out Korean-Koreans who are using Hines Ward as a way to educate the public on the plight of non-famous mixed-race Koreans and a bunch of people are talking about how Koreans are just using Hines Ward ??o fuel their master-race fantasies from afar.??Did you even bother reading what Robert the Marmot wrote?
I applaud those few who are trying to educate the public, and at the same time I’m not nearly naive enough to believe that it will have any real impact. The prejudices are deeply ingrained and more importantly, socially acceptable. For every cartoon like the one Michael linked to, I could show you a hundred showing blacks with bones through their noses. The reality is that the Korean view of blacks (both African and African-American) is shameful and pathetic. Anyone with any experience in Korea can’t deny that fact and keep a straight face. If it makes you uncomfortable that I point out the contradiction and hypocrisy of societal prejudice on one hand and claims of pride when it’s convenient and feeds the Korean superiority complex on the other, tough. Hines Ward proves it.
As for the master-race fantasy comment that you and several other people have questioned, I stand by it. It doesn’t mean that Koreans are the next Nazis bent on world domination. But it does mean that the national obsession with world number ones is most dominant when it comes to athletics. And that obsession includes media highlighting and public adoration of any successful athlete throughout the world who has even a speck of Korean blood.
Front-paging Hines Ward or Michelle Wie is the Korean equivalent of giving the nation continuous updates and assurances that regardless of where they may live, those athlete are dominating because they are Korean.
I’ve traveled a lot, and I have never seen a country so obsessed with the successes, rankings, and medal counts of its people on a global scale. Name the arena and the obsession is there.
When you factor in the cultural obsession with purity of blood, the acceptance of racism in general in the society and media, and the general opposition to mixed-race marriages, the conclusion that most Koreans believe themselves to be a superior (i.e. master) race to all others…and lap up media stories confirming it to them with trophies and awards and medals…isn’t a difficult one to draw.
Celebrating Hines Ward is just another confirmation and reassurance for Koreans who believe their blood makes them inherently superior. Just like celebrating Michelle Wie. Or Sandra Oh. Or Sarah Chang. Or Joseph Hahn. Or Harry Kim. Or Chang Rae Lee. Or Jeanette Lee. Or John Yoo. Or Rick Yune. Or Soon Yi Previn. Sorry, that last one slipped.
Under Korean law, because his father was not Korean, and hence (as I once heard a professor at Seoul National explain in justification of the law!) his blood isn’t “pure”, Ward could not have been registered as a “Korean” - not just a K. citizen - if his mother had chosen to do so.
Makes the current celebration of his Koreaness by the Sudeten Germans Koreans more than a little distasteful
This was the case as of a few years ago. I have no idea whether the law has been changed, perhaps in connection with the recent modification of the hoju system.
I’m sure Ward will be polite when he’s here, but I’ll be very surprised (as well as disappointed) if he gives the local racists any joy.
“Yet when we went to Korea in ??8, even Korean people who looked educated spat when we walked by.”
Ouch. Welcome to Korea, Mr. Hines. I expect you will get a much better reception this time, now that you’re famous.
Very few ethnic Koreans have any clue what it?? like to be living in Korea as a mixed-race or completely non-Korean person; similarly, very few White Americans (or Canadians, Australians, etc.) have any idea what it?? like to be non-White in the U.S. (or some other home countries).
Absolutely false comparison. The first part is correct, that very few ethnic Koreans have a clue, and the second is simply your attempt to make the two cultures guilty of the same degree of racial ignorance and intolerance when in fact there is a huge gap in awareness of minorities between the average Korean and the average Westerner.
The fact is that the integration of large numbers of ethnic groups into Western countries has resulted in very LARGE numbers of white Americans (or Canadians or Australians) having a good idea of what it’s like to be a non-white in their respective countries. They have an idea because minorities have become their neighbors, friends, co-workers, schoolmates, teammates and relatives. They are integrated into Western cultures and societies, and those minorities have made their experiences (both the good and bad) known to whites everywhere.
To equate the level of Korean awareness of minorities (where their country is 98% homogenous) to the Western level (where the level of non-whites in America will soon be 50%), makes you look not only absolutely foolish, but unbelievably ignorant of the realities of each.
The reason that race relations in Western countries have continuously improved over the last 100 years is precisely because of the growing integration and the increasing awareness among whites that it brings. Western countries still have plenty of room for improvement, but your equation is laughable, as if the average Korean has as much interaction on a daily basis with minorities as the average Westerner. Come on man, really, your kneejerk apologista routine better have more ammo than that.
Whether it will have any real impact has yet to be seen, but to be fair, it’s more than a few–I’m reading similar pieces in several major papers.
Robert said: “it has little to do with Koreans believing that they are a ??aster race,??but rather because the society has traditionally placed high value on ethnic purity”
Isn’t ethnic purity and the master race concept pretty much one and the same? When you use the word “pure” to describe yourself, aren’t you implying that others are ‘impure’ and therefore less than or inferior to you? And if HE is inferior, than I must be…. superior!
Lets look at another group of people some of you might know who are very obsessed with racial purity: neo-Nazi’s. Keeping pure white bloodlines is a big ranting point for them. Would you say, Robert, that they just place a ‘high value on ethnic purity’ as a justification for them? I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m baiting you, I’m not, but I don’t think you thought that sentence over enough.
i think the sentiment was “pure race” working towards “master race.”
Absolutely false comparison.
Good, because it’s not a comparison. Forget the whole part about Korea: does a typical White person in the United States really know what it’s like to be Black, Asian, Hispanic, or Native in the United States?
It?? a start, but as iheartblueballs was saying, the next step is to institute laws and protections so that Ward?? example doesn?? go for naught.
I don’t about laws, but a commission does exist. Now some of us just have to make use of it:
You can make a complaint to the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) on cases as follows
- In case human rights under the provisions of Article 10 through 22 are violated by state agencies, local governments, detention or correctional facilities while such entities perform their duties.
- In case there exists a discriminatory act of any violation of the right of equality by a juristic person, organization or private individual. That is, without any reasonable grounds, in case a person is unlawfully discriminated by gender, religion, disability, age, social status, regional, national or ethnic origin, physical condition such as physical features, marital status, pregnancy or delivery, family status, race, skin color, thought or political opinion, criminal record of which effective term of the punishment has expired, sexual orientation, or medical history.
??How to make a complaint
- By phone: Dial 1331 (Seoul and Kyong-gi region) or 02-1331 (Other regions)
- By mail / visiting: Address: Human Rights Counseling Center, National Human Rights Commission, 7th Floor Geumsegi Bldg, 16 Euljiro 1-ga, Jung-gu, Seoul, Korea, 100-842
- By fax: 82-2-2125-9829
- By e-mail:hoso@humanrights.go.kr
OK, answer me this: on the one hand, we have posters claiming that the U.S. pre-1964 was a horribly racist place, where minorities couldn?? get a fair shake.
–Hey, I didn?? make that claim. I would never have suggested no minority member could ever get a fair shake. Obviously there were exceptions, though those exceptions don?? mean a majority of minority members had everything coming up roses.
How then could there have been any significant number of Asians and blacks doing essential work on the Apollo program?
–I don?? know. But I do know some, and I know a lot more who worked on the Space Shuttle and GPS, etc.
And they would certainly take exception to this American success being labeled a White accomplishment.
The U.S. pre-1964 was a horribly racist place. That’s when my father immigrated to the U.S., graduated from two Ivy league universities in engineering, and was lucky to get one job after submitting over 100 resumes. His memories of that period include white people telling the “Chinaman” to “kowtow,” being refused service at the local barbershop, and his bosses trying steal his intellectual property rights because they thought they could pull one over the “foreigner.” Although he was fired from his first job for dubious reasons, another company&#