Comments on: Koizumi blames Beijing, Seoul for worsening ties

By: Darin

Darin — Sat, 07 Jan 2006 01:20:17 +0000

Katz, both governments are going to be group together on a topic they are both acting the same way about.

“Don’t you agree that we don’t have anything in common?”
No.. Korea and China have almost everything in common. Just like Korea and Japan do, and Japan and China do. People are so similar, that’s why they always fight with each-other. Just like Europe.

By: Katz

Katz — Sat, 07 Jan 2006 01:06:08 +0000

I hate when people include Korea with Chinese. Don’t you agree that we don’t have anything in common?

By: Mi-Hwa

Mi-Hwa — Fri, 06 Jan 2006 23:23:48 +0000

Chinese and Korean governments will never accept the Yasukuni visits. According to a poll, almost half of the Japanese people are also against their government leaders visiting Yasukuni. Koizumi and others like him are damaging Japan’s standing in Asia. The Japanese are shooting themselves in the foot because of the visits. Last year, there was a big backlash against Japanese businesses and consulates in China. Japan is going to become more isolated and unpopular in Asia. It will be their loss.

By: Michael

Michael — Fri, 06 Jan 2006 01:04:40 +0000

Kushibo, golden made a comparison involving Hitler–classic Godwin’s Law.
http://www.answers.com/godwin’s%20law

Anyway, on the OP, there’s plenty of blame to go around for the diplomatic strains. Koizumi knows full well that the yasakuni shrine represents an ideologically loaded view that exculpates Japan from its wartime aggression. The current Korean gov’t, for its part, has been childish and amateur in its relations with Japan, like this recent stunt:
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....20023.html
And China is, as always, in no position to criticize Japanese imperialism or treatment of its neighbors.

By: Darin

Darin — Fri, 06 Jan 2006 01:04:38 +0000

But are we talking about Hitler? Nope.

Criticize Korea, people scream that Japan is worse (so that makes it okay?).

Talk about Yasukuni, people scream how bad it would be if people made a shrine for Hitler (except this isn’t a shrine for Hitler, or any other one person, but for every human being that has ever died through war in the history of time.)

All that’s missing in this argument is some America bashing and we’ve got all the irrelevant basses covered.

By: kushibo

kushibo — Fri, 06 Jan 2006 00:31:21 +0000

Golden has referenced Hitler–according to Godwin’s Law, he/she has lost the argument. (By invoking Godwin’s Law I hereby give up all attempts to end this thread….)

Um… Godwin’s lie doesn’t (or at least shouldn’t) apply when we’re talking about things directly related to Hitler. That would include Hitler’s allies (e.g., the Yasukuni-14), Stalin (whether Stalin or Hitler was worse), or people such as Hitler’s barber.

If someone posits that Hitler’s hairdresser was gay, does that person automatically lose the argument because they mentioned that Herr Johannes was Hitler’s barber? What if we discuss whether Schindler’s List was Spielberg’s greatest film? Do I automatically lose my argument because I mentioned Hitler in the context of a movie about Nazi atrocities, or for that matter an issue about Hitler’s allies?

Anyway, my thoughts on this matter are here (I posted this before Marmot put this up), and I link this only because at the bottom they include non-rhetorical questions I’d like the answers to.

By: Darin

Darin — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 23:19:49 +0000

golden: Really not surprised by your lack of attempt to understand.
This is not a shrine to hitler, nor is it a shrine to the war criminals. It is a shrine to those who died due to war. Also, as I mentioned before but you clearly didn’t read, there is no good or evil in the Shinto religion. A dead person is a dead person, and that dead person is to be enshrined as a ‘kami’. A major problem with this issue is Japan is the only country that has the Shinto religion, and seemingly Shinto is the only religion with these beliefs. When these beliefs are translated into English, or compared to christian religions so that others can understand, there is no option but to translate the word ‘kami’ into god. But they’re not really gods, more like spirits that must never be forgotten. The opposite is also true. The concept of a christian god is very difficult for a Japanese person who speaks Japanese natively to understand. I’ve attended a few church services here and although I am not a devout, or any for that matter, christian, I did grow up in a christian home, my grandfather is a paster, and I went to a christian college with mandatory religious studies courses, and to me, the christianity practiced in Japan isn’t really christianity. It’s something else. Christianity seemly can not be understood by a ‘Japanese’ mind. I’m not the only one to think so. If you’re interested, I can look up the English names and translations of some literature about it. In the same way, Shinto is something that can not be understood by a ‘christian’ mind. I don’t consider myself christian, yet I still can’t fully comprehend all that is Shintoism.

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 23:11:37 +0000

Golden has referenced Hitler–according to Godwin’s Law, he/she has lost the argument. (By invoking Godwin’s Law I hereby give up all attempts to end this thread….)

By: golden

golden — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 22:57:06 +0000

Darin my dear,

Really love your logic, if there was to be a Nazi shrine for Hitler, it would be a fine and respectable idea as long as it also enshrined the Nazi collaborators from occupied Poland, France and Ukraine.

And if the new German Chancellor was to visit the Hitler shrine, it would be “truly amazing” too, as long as she prayed for peace in the Hitler Shrine.

By: jodi

jodi — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 22:35:43 +0000

I think the poor relations which have resulted from these shrine visits are a little ridiculous but I think Japan does have a right to be annoyed at China and South Korea’s protests regarding Yasukuni.

It seems to be, as Koizumi said himself, a domestic issue that should not involve China and Korea. Despite the unfavorable relations among the three countries, Japan is not closing off ties with its neighbors–it is the exact opposite that is happening.

If one is to blame the lack of diplomacy in NE Asia on one side, it would be shortsighted to blame Japan and more accurate to point fingers at the nations which have chosen to cease communication with Tokyo in childish protest to Yasukuni.

It’s unfortunate because North Korea is still a common concern for all three countries.