A Seoul National University panel looking into the Hwang Woo-suk fiasco announced Thursday that DNA analysis confirmed that five stem cells Hwang claimed could be developed into patient-specific stem cells did not match their donors:
Patient-specific stem cells that South Korean scientist Hwang Woo-suk claimed to have made never existed, a South Korean academic panel said Thursday.
The nine-member panel at Seoul National University told a news conference that it has reached the conclusion after finding that DNAs of five stem cell samples, which Hwang claimed were capable of developing into patient-specific stem cells, didn’t match those of their donors.
Hwang, a veterinary professor at the state-run university, resigned a week ago after he was found to have lied about what was hailed as breakthrough advances in cloning patient-tailored stem cells, a feat that scientists say could help find treatment for incurable diseases such as diabetes and Alzheimer’s.
Hwang apologized but insisted that a DNA test of five stem cell samples in storage at his lab would prove that he indeed had the technology to make patient-tailored stem cells.
After a series of DNA tests, the school panel said on Thursday that the five five stem cell lines were confirmed to be stem cells extracted from a fertilized egg created by Mizmedi Hospital, which had collaborated with Hwang’s research team.
Unless Hwang can prove, as he claims, that some nefarious figures switched his cloned stem cells, it’s time to stick a fork in his career (although I’m sure he’ll eventually find a lucrative position working for some private research institute).
Sphere: Related Content
48 Comments
So much for the core technology claims. And in the immortal words of Proky the Pig, That’s all folks.
So much for the core technology claims. And in the immortal words of Proky the Pig, That’s all folks.
Hmmm… I don’t know. The 2004 study has yet to be disproven, though it certain deserves copious amounts of supsicion.
And Snuppy, apparently, may still be legit.
So if 2004 was legit and so was Snuppy, or even just Snuppy, Hwang’s shady ethics are countered by actual success in difficult cloning tasks.
What would that mean? His academic career is over, over, over, over. Over easy, overies, ??, overblown, over.
But if he has had those successes, I think some corp, may Evil GloboCorp Consolidated, Ltd., is going to snatch him up, pay him millions (of dollars, not those fruity worth-nothing won), and have him develop patentable processes for them.
Ah, but it was the alleged patient-tailored stem cells technology that constituted something really unique, wasn’t it? Other people already have the basic cloning tech. So at best, he’s left with the refinement thereof, if any, involved in cloning a dog - if he did clone a dog.
And his cloning of the dog remains to be proven. My wife read the Korean reports and said that these preliminary results are based upon cells that Hwang had provided. The proof will be in testing further using cells gathered by the team investigating Hwang’s work.
I have my doubts.
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
I can’t think of any angrier people right now than the Koreans with spinal cord injuries etc. that had total faith in him. Poor buggers, he really abused their trust. The Brits and others in the West/Japan are basically saying a herd of flying pink Snuppy’s won’t mean jack shit to his reputation which is totally unsalvageable.That said I think they’d better put the guy on a suicide watch - I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
What, no-one suspects SNU and all of Korea is trying to cover up for Hwang? Amazing.
One of the most tragic things I have witnessed so far regarding the entire Hwang Hoax was a news clip aired a few days ago on TV featuring a Western father, who I presume had brought his handicapped daughter all the way to Korea to thank firsthand the Great Scientist of Hope himself. The clip also showed her giving the beaming Hwang a peck on his cheek.
Kimbob: “What, no-one suspects SNU and all of Korea is trying to cover up for Hwang? Amazing.”
Indeed it is amazing but perhaps the cover which protected SNU was blown from the moment Schatten distanced himself. Although this is a massive letdown for people who had pinned their hopes on the *ahem* “scientist” one good thing has come out of this, we won’t have to listen to chopsticks comments for a little while (or will we…?). What a joke, the guy had the nerve to insinuate foreigners are not so hard working.
abc, that IS mighty tragic for sure. Wonder if KAL will give THEM a free ticket?
Is SNU a major university in Korea?
“Indeed it is amazing but perhaps the cover which protected SNU was blown from the moment Schatten distanced himself.”
Did Schatten’s distancing himself expose the $50,000 bribe attempt? Did Schatten’s distancing himself expose Hwang’s threats and blackmail attempt of Kim Sun Jong? Did Schatten’s distancing himself expose all the extra goodies around Hwang? As much as it should be a lesson in humility for Korea, one thing that SNU should be given credit for is their unbiased investigation. The same investigation that is going to tear up their school’s international reputation and bring down Korea’s national hero. I don’t think not too many people here were expecting that this could happen in Korea. One of the things that irks me that it’s very easy for people to criticize (much of it deserved), but are very stingy when it comes to acknowledging that somethings are improving and are going in the right direction.
Sure, Snooze deserves some credit for apparently getting it right in confirming that the horse had left the barn; but let’s face it, the institution and its luminaries weren’t the ones who first raised the alarm. That honor belongs to MBC and whoever dropped a dime to them. The fact seems to be that while many had SNU apparently had serious doubts about Hwang for quite some time, they didn’t.
I think it’s a bit harsh on SNU to accuse them of turning a blind eye. That implies they knew what Hwang was up to and deliberately did nothing. It’s unlikely anyone outside of Hwang’s research group knew what he was up to. Even among those in his research group, working in his lab, most of them would be working on small, separate parts of the research. There would likely be few people who had sufficient knowledge of the whole picture to put 2 and 2 together.
As for those in Hwang’s lab who did know, it’s not easy to be a whistle blower. If you blow the whistle and you’re wrong, you can kiss your career goodbye. Even if you’re right, you may find yourself facing a struggle to get people to believe you, especially when the man in question is a “national hero”.
So what was the $40 million (some reports say $60 million) in gov’t funds spent on–kimchi? The prosecutors should follow the money…the payment Schatten got and the $30,000 Hwang’s associates gave to Kim Seon-jong for “stress” might be a sign of how generous Hwang was with the taxpayers’ money.
Some people in the Science Ministry should do the right thing too and resign.
Have a look at how the Esteemed Korea Times attempts to blame Big Nose for the whole fiasco.
http://times.hankooki.com/lpag.....411780.htm
So, after 1500 eggs, there is nothing to show for. Absolutely nothing.
This is what happens in science sometimes. Just like those people who wanted to make gold from other elements, you can mix, heat, cool, add other chemicals for centuries, and nothing works. Absolutely nothing.
It is about time to abandon this nuclear-transferred stem cell idea. Hwangs Inc. have tried and tried, and finally had to lie. Then, since nobody stopped them, they kept on lying. Till now.
Kimchipig,
Well, actually the Science journal should share some blame. There was a hidden agenda by the AAAS in publishing Hwang’s articles in a hurry.
These biologists are mad at Pres. Bush’s prohibition on embryonic stem cell research in the US. For them, Hwang represented a Sputnik. They wanted Bush to know that other countries would soon pass the US in this arena. They published Hwang’s lies with minimum fact checking.
This agenda resulted in Koreans getting fooled. Women damaged their bodies by getting injected with chemicals and producing twenty eggs at a shot! They became laboratory chickens.
These women should be allowed to sue the Science journal. If they can prove the hidden agenda and gross mismanagement in the Science journal, they may able to win hefty monetary judgment against the journal.
Bush may even hire the lawyers for these women.
Baduk, if there was a hidden agenda it would be very difficult to prove, I would think. Donald Kennedy, the editor at Science, said:
I think I would not have chosen different reviewers or different editors, had I to do it over again. We’ve had three cases of rather well thought-of experiments in my time as editor-in-chief of Science that turned out to be fraudulent. And in each case, I’ve had to try to point out to people that the peer review system is extremely good at detecting error or false reasoning or unjustified conclusions drawn from the data.
It is not good at detecting very cleverly constructed fraud committed by very, very capable scientists, which Dr. Hwang was and is.
It seems very plausible that Science was taken in by Hwang just like the Korean gov’t and people. Whether they had ulterior motives or not, that would be hard to prove in court.
“Have a look at how the Esteemed Korea Times attempts to blame Big Nose for the whole fiasco.”
Interesting. Here’s a NYT article discussing peer review and the journals’ responsibilities.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12.....clone.html
Sam,
Thank you for the reference. It has been on-going problem for these scientific journals. They do not have ability to detect frauds; they just print the report in the believe-it-or-not fashion.
However, they give false impression of reliability by asserting their “peer-review” system works. Only when the push comes to shove, then they admit the system is less than perfect.
Well, that is an understatement. As shown in the Hwangs case, any scientist with minimum background in the subject can go right through, with fake pictures that even college undergraduates can catch.
A better system of “accountability” is desperately needed. The Cornell university is the only one which set up a system where a third party checks the laboratory notebooks before submitting an article to scientific journals.
This is not an significant improvement but at least a start. If I have my way, I will require every author to personally certify under possible prison sentence that the results are reliable.
With this way professors can no longer use “I didn’t know” defense. Too many liars are using that as the defense, while keeping their university posts and high paying jobs. Cloning research has gone to liars ever since Wilmut got away with his Dolly lie.
Michael,
I know it will be difficult. However, some old-fashioned bigots work in these traditional journals. If one digs deep, one may able to find e-mail communications that incriminate some of them. They must have cut corners.
Otherwise, how did those pictures get through? Did anybody look at them before publishing at all? Gross negligence.
These scientific journals are getting fat. They are becoming like commercial magazines, with large subscription list. If offered with sizeable money, one of the insiders may speak up.
Considerable amount of bias exist in these scientific journals, in order to cater to their readers and sell magazines (the scientific journal is basically subscription-based magazine).
For example, if I were to write a scientific article favoring “creation” as opposed to evolution with all the necessary data and clear scientific reasoning, the journals will reject it. The readers have strong bias in favor of evolution and they are not interested in reading about creationism. In addition, many scientists make living on teaching and perpetuating the lie and the article will threaten their very existence. In other words, the subject of the article is not PC.
The religious persecution of scientific ideas is still prevalent. Only the name of religion is changed. The leading religion nowadays is the Church of Evolution.
At this point I don’t want to beat a dead stem cell into the ground, but this L.A. Times story is interesting on speculating why Hwang might have pursued his scam, and it covers the science journals Baduk criticizes:
http://www.latimes.com/news/sc.....-headlines
By the way–2006 is the Year of the Dog. But that dog is probably not Snuppy….
Kimbob: “I don’t think not too many people here were expecting that this could happen in Korea. One of the things that irks me that it’s very easy for people to criticize (much of it deserved), but are very stingy when it comes to acknowledging that somethings are improving and are going in the right direction.”
Fair enough. Within Korea my credit would go to BRIC moreso than SNU as they had even less to gain and were also threatened by Roh’s bunch. Good for them. Even though I’m surprised they announced this I stick by my earlier assertion, any validation of any of Hwang’s ‘work’ must be verified internationally. That’s a no-brainer at this point.
Korea Times article via Kimchipig. “Experts here [South Korea] say Science may have to share the burden of criticism since the journal had printed the fraudulent article without fully examining its authenticity….Domestic embryologists assume Science might want to retain the attention-grabbing research results even at the risk of its time-honored tradition of assuring accuracy through prudent examination.
Wow, just when you think the jokers might have learned something, here we go again. What the esteemed “expert” fails to recognize is that Science and other journals work on the [in hindsight false] assumption that scientists’ works are submitted in good faith - with their work being more important than freaders’ faith. Sure Science should learn from this but I think its ironic the Korean scientist now lambasts the journal for its supposed “attention-grabbing” proclivities. Isn’t Hwang’s (& Co.) ego and lust for the spotlight what got him into this mess? When in doubt, point to big-nose. I’m like, man.
Baduk, just wondering if you are also against non-embryonic stem cell research?
Probably in these pages somewhere but I’m too lazy today to look it up.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00705.html
“Unfortunately, the damage Hwang did can’t be undone,” said Robert Lanza of Advanced Cell Technology in Worcester, Mass., a company that had been racing to make the first customized stem cells but found its venture capital cut off when the Korean team announced its success. “It can’t be undone for us, and it can’t be undone for the thousands of people who may die in the future because this research has been unnecessarily held up while [Hwang] played his games and traveled around the world like a rock star.”
dream of korea, hope of the world.
The different between the KOrea times and the NY times is this:
http://times.hankooki.com/lpag.....411780.htm
Experts here (korea) say Science may have to share the burden of criticism since the journal had printed the fraudulent article without fully examining its authenticity.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12.....clone.html
“A question both journals have considered is that of whether their editors and reviewers should have caught the errors in Dr. Hwang’s papers before publication. But as in past cases of fraud, the journals’ editors and other scientists assert that their system depends basically on trust and that reviewers can check only whether a report’s conclusions follow from the data presented. ”
The first is using the usual innuendo, and out right blame shifting of the Korean jourlism school and the second is reflection and explation.
The NYT
Your site is very informative. Any update on the Pitt. researcher who wanted directorship? What is his status? Why did he chose to co-author the Science article? What has he gained since that article? These and other such questions are not answered.
Also, will future ethics courses/units use the Case of Woo-Suk and Gerald as what not to do in scientific research? Will the NYT Ethicist use that as an example.
Guest
Michael,
Thank you for the good article. In the article,
she said, ” What’s puzzlingis if they really did intentionally deceive, how did they think they were going to get away with it?”
Well, they do get away. I will write the sequence of events in this case. The investigation about Hwang’s case had about three places where it came to a dead end. In other words, it is very difficult to catch fraud, especially biological fraud. The lying party can always use “superior lab technique” as their defense.
Daehan Migug,
I have no objection to non-embryonic stem cell research. I am not Jehovah’s witness. However, I must say that these biological research companies use too much “unsubstantiated” projections.
Guest,
Schatten is under investigation as well. The result will come out on Jan. U of Pitts will just hand-slap him, unless the Science pushes the university. I do not see it. Science magazine is not blameless.
Scientists in general want to hide these things from public. It is similar to a military scandal; the generals have much to lose by making it public. Damage control sets in. Scientists do the same. We are not any better than other human endeavors, music, art, business, politics, etc. We, scientists, have mouths to feed, mortage to pay and wants to take expensive vacation once in a while. Don’t put us in pedestal and persecute us when we go wrong.
But, I still hate Hwang’s kind.
This sort of news is sad. There were plans to make books for children. Why?
http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=51964
I have a new book title:
Scientist as Celebrity: The Case of Woo-Suk and Gerald
From the Korea TImes, today: “Hope for successful New Year: A worker starts a day at the control tower of the Korea Space Center, the nations first space center scheduled to be completed by the end of 2006 at Kohung, South Cholla Province. The space center, expected to send a satellite into space in 2007, may help overcome the credibility problem caused by Hwang Woo-suks stem cell scandal. ”
Yeah of course, because sending a satellite into space or man to the moon for that matter, will be such a groundbreaking technological event in 2006 that the world will wonder how those dynamic Koreans did it (hint, with more than a little help from Lockheed Martin, Boeing, NASA, the Russians, ESA etc.) and thereby forget all about the credibility problem epitomized by Clonegate. Do the writers of this pap fail to see their very words are part of the national “credibility problem” ?
Baduk, glad to hear you are not opposed to other forms of stem cell research. But saying
“… many scientists make living on teaching and perpetuating the lie [of evolution, correct?] and the article will threaten their very existence.”
is unverifiable. How do we know evolution is a lie, or that ideas such as intelligent design, creationism and evolution are necessarily incompatible? As I wasn’t there in the beginning I know jack squat.
More questions.
- Why did Woo-Suk contact Gerald? Was Gerald the first US researcher that agreed to co-author the Science paper? Did someone turn down? Etc.
- What exactly happen in the 20-month partnership? Details are missing. Why is a Woo-Suk collaborator (Kim) now at Pitt? Did Hwang encourage this, or did Kim wanted to get out and work with Gerald?
There are so many human factor issues there and the press is focusing on DNA tests. I think one of the US papers should focus on such questions.
Guest
I am flattered by all the discussion that my comment caused. However, today was my seventh wedding anniversary. We have some excellent local seafood washed down with some equally excellent Chardonny.
That is what life is all about.
Happy New Year
Mr and Mrs Kimchipig
And the Piglets
Daehan Migug,
You are right. I have a religious bias against Evolution, especially about the part where all living organisms on earth started from one super cell. I rather think we are designed by an intelligent being. Carl Sagan used to say, “there are billions and billions stars” and he implied that they are billions and billions of intelligent creatures in universe. Why is it so ridiculous to consider the possibility of some “Super Being” designing all creatures on earth? I believe these evolutionists are very biased to the extent of being dishonest.
Guest,
This Hwang incident has so many twists and turns that many Koreans still believe that there is a conspiracy aimed against Hwang. I am not one of them; that SOB got what he deserved.
1)Why did Woo-Suk contact Gerald?
Hwang wanted to get some international recognition and Schatten fit the bill.
2) Was Gerald the first US researcher that agreed to co-author the Science paper?
I believe there was somebody else for 2004 paper. It is not important.
3) What exactly happen in the 20-month partnership?
Schatten made frequent trips to Hwang’s lab and authored 2005 paper for Hwang. He was THE last author; he assumed the position of guaranteeing the integrity of the paper. He was not just one of the twenty five co-authors of the paper; he was THE MAIN author. Why he decided to take over is not clear. There is a rumor that he wanted fifty percent of all money Hwang’s research will produce.
I personally believe he knew about the lying but wanted to profit from it. Go back and read previous Marmot postings and what I have written.
4) Why is a Woo-Suk collaborator (Kim) now at Pitt? Did Hwang encourage this, or did Kim wanted to get out and work with Gerald?
The part about Kim is still not clearly understood. As you have pointed out, the reason for his joining Schatten lab is not clear. As far as I know, Kim wanted this.
Kim is a “fabrication specialist”. He fixed the pictures under Hwang’s command. Hwang actually TOLD Kim to make eleven cell pictures out of two cells.
When the MBC reporters approached and threatened him, he confessed the fabrication. This was the biggest break for the investigative reporters.
I am not convinced exactly why he did it. Many Koreans think this is where the conspiracy started. I think that is a possibility. Maybe Kim was angry at Hwang for demanding him to commit crime, instead of gently nudging him.
Happy New Year to Kimchipig and his family, DaeHanMigug, Guest, Marmot, Kushibo, Kimbob, Nomad, Gerry Bevers, and many others whose name I cannot remember at this moment!
‘koreans have a credibilty problem…’
1. iraq has weapons of mass destruction.
2. the iraqis will greet the american soldier as liberator.
3. this will be a cakewalk
4. we do not torture.
5. we do not secretly abduct people.
6. we adhere to the constitution.
korea got a scientist who lied, america’s got a president who lies. which is worse? 30,000 people dead because of george bush and the he-man brigade*. how many people have died because of hwang?
korea basher’s logic is to see the hwang situation as one that might bring about the destruction of korea. but destruction it will not bring.
let me make a prediction for the korea basher to remember:
korea will be a big player in the world of science within ten years. i know, you’re laughing. just like you did so many other times. we know how right you’ve been, don’t we, korea basher?
* he-men in the he-man brigade are those who talk tough without doing any of the tough. example: the guys who talk shit about 3,000 korean soldiers in iraq while they sit in seoul. oh, the irony.
lastly:
‘microsoft to korea: watch yourself.’
‘korea to microsoft: f**k off!
Nulji:
“1. iraq has weapons of mass destruction.
2. the iraqis will greet the american soldier as liberator.
3. this will be a cakewalk
4. we do not torture.
5. we do not secretly abduct people.
6. we adhere to the constitution.
korea got a scientist who lied, america’s got a president who lies. which is worse? 30,000 people dead because of george bush and the he-man brigade*. how many people have died because of hwang? ”
I believe the discussion is about credibility in academia, Hwang specifically. If you want to extend the parameters to include politics, government, xenophobia etc. there’s room for SK in there too. I agree with you on this - Bush is obviously a lot worse than Hwang, is probably the worst president in US history and war criminal to boot. That said, Hwang is not off the hook. Lanza suggests many sick people will continue to suffer due to the research time wasted while Hwang cavorted around the world “acting like a rock star.” He certainly exploited peoples’ hopes.
Nulji: “let me make a prediction for the korea basher to remember: korea will be a big player in the world of science within ten years. i know, you’re laughing. just like you did so many other times. we know how right you’ve been, don’t we, korea basher? ”
Nulji you keep blubbering on and on about “Korea bashers” and how Korea is going to laugh at the world so lets put a few things in perspective. There are already lots of “big player” nations in science. It’s not like Korea will be the only nation to join the science club. India, Eastern Europe, China and hopefully African, Latin and Middle Eastern nations too will eventually make more contributions to science. Great, that’s a day to look forward to because a truly global effort is required to solve problems of poverty and environment.
But please stop with this ‘Korea World Leader, Better Than Everyone Else” rubbish. Its really old and you should be at least a little embarrassed to say it in light of recent events. I think a lot of foreigners in SK are just sick to death of hearing this claptrap. (Thankfully most outside don’t have to.)
Step back a bit and take a look at the really big picture for a minute. Yes, Korea has and will continue to contribute to science, make products and file patents. But if you really this will magically put Korea on par with, or above the scale and scope of other countries’ (US, Japan, UK, France, Russia, etc.) truly groundbreaking scientific achievements within your lifetime, well, dream on my friend. The numbers are simply stacked too much against you.
Your high school students seem to do well but you’ve got very few if any universities of top world rank, same for your research institutes. There are reasons for this which posters on this blog have mentioned already. It has just one multinational, Samsung (60% foreign owned) in the Fortune Top 100. In addition you’ve got a ways to go before you can catch nations like Pakistan, Argentina or Hungary in science Nobels. Regarding the big boys it would take about fifty or sixty Korean science Nobels to catch a SINGLE western university like Cambridge or Harvard. In other words, not…gonna…happen in your lifetime. The Japanese and Chinese economies dwarf your own and the Indians, who are very very good at science, soon will too. Other Asian nations like Vietnam, Thailand and Malaysia are stepping in the ring so don’t look down on or underestimate them, either.
Korea is fine, it makes things, some of them quite good just like many other countries do. But in the end its just another country which needs the cooperation and goodwill of other countries to develop. It will take more than a new cell phone or a tv (none of which were invented in SK) to elevate you to the scientific throne you - Nulji - desperately seek. You’re standing on the shoulders of giants but seem ignorant of your own scientific stature.
Korea, like any nation did not develop to the worlds’ 11th largest economy in isolation due to some miracle of racial superiority. You must have a short memory as you forget where you would be today, scientifically and economically, without the foreigners you seem to hate so much.
Nulji: “korea basher’s logic is to see the hwang situation as one that might bring about the destruction of korea. but destruction it will not bring.”
Uh, who’s talking about the destruction of Korea?! Hate to shatter your delusions but aren’t “Korea Bashers” (evil foreigners) the ones who generally SAVED your nation from 1) Japanese domination 2) North Korean/Chinese domination, 3) Chaebol mismanagement of your own economy 4) God-knows what else.
Baduk: “Happy New Year to Kimchipig and his family, DaeHanMigug, Guest, Marmot, Kushibo, Kimbob, Nomad, Gerry Bevers, and many others whose name I cannot remember at this moment!”
Same back at you, mate. Have a good one.
Baduk: “I rather think we are designed by an intelligent being. Carl Sagan used to say, “there are billions and billions stars” and he implied that they are billions and billions of intelligent creatures in universe. Why is it so ridiculous to consider the possibility of some “Super Being” designing all creatures on earth?”
It’s not ridiculous but I can only say I don’t know. Its the old faith vs science thing but too often it seems they are unnecessarily at odds. Well….at least we have Sagan in common, an open mind if ever there was one.
Nulji, I hate to disapoint you but the real problem with Korea is that many Korean men are irrational, pathological liars and such is the reason why many bash Korea. More decent honesty would go a long way in improving Korea for everyone.
I’m sorry but I’ve just seen too much after seven years of dealing with the conniving nonsense that passes for business in Korea. Complain about Bush all you want but your complaints have no merit in comparison to such.
If these Biology-textbook-clenching evolutionists at least acknowledge that there is a chance that we could have been designed by a foreign being, that would be a progress.
However, these evolutionists are very religious, very dogmatic. They do not want to include any possibility other than the status quo. For them, no other theory than what we know now is acceptable!
What a bunch of hypocrites! Mathematical probability suggests that there is at least 50% chance that we have been designed by a foreign being or beings. An honest person would see this right away.
However, these bigots say that there is no evidence and therefore they cannot accept the intelligent design.
Christians have been saying the same thing. Since there is no “missing link” between the monkey and the man, evolution can not be admitted. So, now these so-called unbiased scientists are using the same excuse as the Christians? What we do not see don’t exist?
With mathematical and theoretical calculations, we trust that there could be billions and billions of planets like earth. Then, it is a certainty that many have travelled to the earth. Why can’t biologists see this? Why can’t they accept from mathematical probability that the intelligent design has just much merit as their “random beginning” theory.
“We do not yet have an evidence” just don’t cut it. It is not logical. I can only point to their lifestyle as the real reason for this hypocracy. These biologists are not scientists at all. They are religious zealots.
By the way, I do not believe the aliens designed creatures on earth. I trust it is the Supreme Being who created THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE has made the Earth and creatures.
So, you have on the bottom layer biologists who only look at the Earth. Then, you have in the layer above them space scientists who consider only the possibility of alien visitors. Finally, you have on the top layer Christians who look at THE CAUSE of it all.
Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Nulji, you’ve been served.
bu-bye
“What a bunch of hypocrites! Mathematical probability suggests that there is at least 50% chance that we have been designed by a foreign being or beings. An honest person would see this right away.”
Umm, just because it’s a new year doesn’t mean you should skip your medication…
A friend of mine emailed me this gem from last fall:
“Dexterity Enables Korean Lady Golfers to Dominate US LPGA”
http://times.hankooki.com/lpag.....111650.htm
Now granted it’s the KT, which publishes howlers like this regularly, but when I read Nulji’s post above what struck me is that no one bashes Korea and Koreans as much as Koreans do. Rather than make outrageous claims and empty boasts, why not appreciate your real achievements?
Here’s another good article for Baduk and anyone else interested in what (real) scientists believe:
“What scientists believe but can’t prove . . .”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/a.....99,00.html
John Brockman’s site: http://www.edge.org is very interesting as well.
What a showdown this has been for the most revered scientists…and a crash of hope for long-awaited breakthrough in Science. I guess the questions asked by “Guest” are pretty legitimate… I have also quoted on “Gerry Schatten To Be Sacked” and I persist with the statement that Gerry is not innocent in this case. He in fact is an intellectual “scientist” (??) who got undue credit in Hwang papers and now is regreting because of the whole scandal. Too late!!.. Gerry!
2 Trackbacks
Dr. Hwang, Meet Mencius
Not much more to add to the Hwang Woo-Suk stem cell disaster that The Marmot has not already covered. In a way, though, the whole thing illustrates just how simple and straightforward Chinese philosophy really is. Take this passage
U.S.A.: Hub of Apathy
Well Im back amongst the living. My 9-hour days officially ended today (14 hours with only 9 actual working hours). Of course the course of my new schedule still covers a 14-hour spread, but at least my work hours have decreased to 6.
The news is …