Japanese filmmaker Shinji Aoyama is apparently miffed by Korean actor Bae Yong-joon moistening panties in his native land:
"I really want to say this," the director said, clearly exasperated. "To me, Japanese women who flock to see Yonsama (Korean actor Bae Yong-joon) are repulsive. When I see something so repulsive, whoever they are carrying on about, it makes me feel profoundly sick."
A friend of mine has said that the anti-Korean wave phenomenon is Japan is driven by classical "they’re stealing our women" sentiment. Who knows… he might be right.
(Hat tip to GI Korea)
Oh, and for more highlights from Korea-Japan Friendship Year 2005, be sure to check out James Card’s piece in the Asia Times.
(Hat tip to Lost Nomad)
56 Comments
“Bae Yong-joon moistening panties”
haaa, I don’t think Yon-sama’s girls panties get moist anymore; his fan’s are pretty much only old-women.
The younger guys like Byung-hun Lee tend to do the pantie moistening here. Yon-sama is just a sure seller to the obasan who have access to their husband’s bank account.
By “ode women” do you mean women in their thirties and forties, Darin?
Kushibo: late 30’s to 50’s yea. From people my age (22) obasan.
I think this is a good time to mention that Aoyama is not alone; the general opinion of Japanese people on their neighbors is indeed going down just as Japans neighbors’ opinion of them is falling too.
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/na.....Y01005.htm
However I do not agree that the reason is a result of the Hanryuu boom nor the “they’re stealing our women” sentiment, but the way that many Korean and Chinese people are lumping all Japanese together as one at the same time the same people get upset over many Japanese people lumping all Chinese or Korean people together as one. I also think, as does the article, that the riots in China have attributed to the already sad image of Chinese people in Japan, and too have the recent riots of Korean farmers in HK. Regardless of wether or not the Korean and Chinese people are right to be upset, or what they’re upset about, theyre going about it the complete wrong way. Every time Koreans or Chinese riot, the extreme right wing in Japan says, Look! Didnt I tell you, theyre animals! and more people say, I guess you were right.
http://www.imbermedia.net/user.....blog/?p=52
More on the “they’re stealing our women” part; well I don’t think that is attributing much to any anti-Korean sentiment, (sure you can go on 2ch and find all kindsa people that say it bothers them, but does it really, or are they just jumping on the wave? and more-so, they don’t seem to feel strong enough about it to use their real name, or write about it in a non-anonymous environment) it is definitely true that many Japanese women have a new tendency to look on Korean men in a much different light then they used to as a result of the hanryuu boom. But sadly, many women find out that the movies are just movies. Sure there are very nice and caring Korean men just like those in the movies, and there are many not so nice, not caring men from Korea, just like their are from any other country. Some of my friends have attempted relationships with Korean men and have failed miserably, saying they’re even bigger pigs then Japanese men, others have had very successful relationships.
Interestingly enough, according to a friend from Shang-hai, the general opinion of Korean men at least there is terrible. I remember one of his miserably failed relationships where he was dating a Korean girl for, about say, 1 week. He deliberately treated her badly because, “that’s the way Korean guys treat women, so I have to be like that or she’ll think something is wrong with me.” No matter how many times I tried to explain to him that “if that’s the case, then that’s why she’s interested in a goof like you, that you won’t treat her like that” it didn’t seem to get through to him before she called it quits. So he may be a goof, but the story at least shows his opinion of Korean men.
haaa, I don’t think Yon-sama’s girls panties get moist anymore; his fan’s are pretty much only old-women.
Oh c’mon, don’t diss older women. The plumbing still works, I’m sure…
Darin, Yonsama wishes they were 30-40… most are 60 yearold zainichi. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
But no doubt there are younger women, and some men that are wild for yonsama, right Kushibo?
Here is a interesting website for those interested in BJY. Kushibo, this should be useful for some one handed research.
http://www.joonsfamily.com/
Reminds me of a kind of church. A church to joon.
What’s going on here? Isn’t it supposed to be America that stupidly alienates everyone around them?
shingles: oh yes there are indeed 20 year old women that go crazy for yon-sama too, but their are also 20 year old women that went crazy for bill clinton as well. I’m trying to make one of those hated gross generalizations for the sake of simplification.
as for the zainichi, i have not data or anything to show, but as for the zainichi around me, many think of yon-sama as a ?????????yasaotoko).. a sweet and gentle WEAK scrawny little wimp sorry excuse of a man. basically the way people negatively feel about dicaprio.
I’m basing my sweeping generalization on tv footage of the people that greet him at the airport when he comes to japan, and by the age groups of women that hover at the yon-sama corner at the local bookstore
‘japan is diverse..’
i don’t care how ‘diverse’ japan is. as long as it’s leader visits a shrine where he pays homage to war criminals, the people of japan can forget about good relations with korea.
this is japan’s choice, not korea’s.
let me leave you with a list. may i tell you about it? you see, i’m really not too interested in digging up the dirt on the japanese, so even though i knew the japanese people conducted medical experiments on chinese and koreans, i never knew what kinds of things they did. the other day, i put in the word yasukuni on google and stumbled upon a website that talked about the experiments. here’s some examples:
1. cut off arms and reattached them to the opposite side.
2. cut off a person’s limbs one by one to see blood loss.
3. remove people’s stomachs and attach the esophogus to the intestines to see what would happens.
4. inject air bubbles into peoples blood stream to cause strokes.
5. burn people alive
the list went on but you get the picture. btw, the us let the people who performed these experiments get away with their crimes in exchange for the data.
and you want to talk about morality, ethics, it’s-an-internal-affair kind of thing, and disregard for human life?
Nulji, the experiments of Dr. Ishii and Unit 731 were indeed horrible, and maybe more people should know about it. But unless Dr. Ishii is enshrined in Yasukuni, that’s irrelevant to Korea-Japanese relations. If Korea were to be judged based on the deeds of its worst citizens in the same way you’re talking about Japan, Korea would be an international ??.
Are you sure this is completely Japan’s choice and not at least partially Koreas too? I know the saying “two wrongs don’t make a right” is wasted on China (http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9609/.....index.html) but I still like to believe that “forgive but don’t forget” wasn’t wasted on Korea. The one’s making a stink about the situation is indeed not Japan but Korea and China, regardless of wether or not it’s warranted. If we want to drag up the past and try and apply it to modern terms when there really is no connection, then I could easily bring up Vietnamese sex slaves in Korea, or I could bring up the way many Korean “soldiers” disguise themselves as farmers only to shoot real soldiers in the back. It’s fine to talk about the past in the context of the past, but to say things like “japs are neither french nor germansthey will never be a developed country and society. Why? They are like rapists who claim that their victims wanted itgot it?” http://times.hankooki.com/lpag.....611980.htm and “So what? Do you know another difference between [terrorists and kamikazi]. Islamic Terrorists didnt have sex slaves, but Kamikaze had.Most of the sex slaves were from Korea, Taiwan and China not from Japan. That is another difference. So I want to ask agian. So what? Dont kidding me.” http://english.ohmynews.com/ar.....ode=298190 and use it as an excuse to talk badly about someone, to try and punish someone who personally has committed no crime only makes the person you’re trying to insult’s hate towards yourself grow, all it does is produce people like me, 3rd person, no real connection to the issue, who have strong anti-Korean feelings. (Yes, I’ll admit it, I have strong anti-Korean feelings and it’s completely 100% a result of the way many Koreans are reacting in today’s world. I welcome all who try and convert me, in fact thats why I started hanging around on these blogs.) It’s completely counter-productive.
But more importantly, what does it have to do with yon-sama?
Japan has some problems but at least it doesn’t act like hucksters who use nationalism to make some fast money or a bunch of spoiled children who can’t stop throwing tantrums:
South Korean marketers got into the action with blatant ads that appealed to nationalism.
A maker of MP3 players, Reigncom, asked South Koreans not to buy Apple’s iPod because it was unpatriotic. KTF broadcast a commercial claiming its mobile phone service even reaches the far-off Dokdo. In a clever scheme, Daegu Bank created a “Dokdo branch bank” that only existed in cyberspace and quickly garnered $100,000 in deposits. A commercial by Daelim apartments depicted a cartoon where a giant South Korean robot-warrior rises out of the sea to thwart a Dokdo invasion by Japanese marauders portrayed as half-naked, buck-toothed goblins. Makers of computer games invented Dokdo battles; another was a crusade to conquer Tsushima Island that is controlled by the “Monkey Chief”, a character that resembled Koizumi.
The United States military even got sucked into the issue though its position is neutral about Dokdo. Jang Sung-min, a former lawmaker, reasoned that the US recognized Dokdo as South Korean territory because Operation Foal Eagle, the annual US-South Korea joint military exercise, took place near Dokdo waters.
Another historical issue was renewed over Japanese textbooks, a long-standing argument between South Korea and Japan. The main flare-up was related to the Dokdo issue when a new edition for middle schools stated that the Dokdo islets are Japanese territory under international law whereas the previous edition stated Japan merely had historical claims to the islets. Another contentious issue was the lack of reference to “comfort women” and forced laborers.
Japanese students may be kept intentionally ignorant of their forefathers wartime atrocities, but South Korean educators fanned the embers of old grievances.
In South Korean classrooms, all levels were taught in special classes about South Korea’s sovereign rights over Dokdo with lesson plans supplied by the Korea Federation of Teachers’ Associations. The Gyeonggi English Program in Korea, modeled after the Japan Exchange and Teaching program, lectured foreign English teachers about South Korea’s rights to Dokdo, regardless of their apathy on the issue.
The most disturbing images of the year were drawings on exhibit at Gyulhyeon Station on the Incheon subway line. The crayon sketches from the students of Gyeyang Middle School depicted the Japanese islands either awash in flames or getting bombed, stabbed or stomped.
Warlike South Korean stickmen attacked bloodied Japanese stickmen; skulls and crossbones and burning flags were prominent motifs, along with the words “Kill! Die!” as well as some foul language. Photos of the exhibit were taken by a Canadian expatriate and posted online. The photos drew thousands of hits and much commentary. Shortly after the buzz on the web, the pictures were removed from the public eye.
from the Asia Times
I’ve often thought Japan’s anti-Korea Wave wave has something to do with jealousy, a feeling among Japanese men that something is being taken from them.
You have hidden feelings of superiority towards Korea, this gross guy Bae comes along and induces thousands of Japanese woman to fly to Korea in search of something similar… that’s gotta hurt.
Thousands of Japanese woman fly to Korea in search of something similar…and don’t find it… that’s gotta hurt…hahahahaha
A friend of mine has said that the anti-Korean wave phenomenon is Japan is driven by classical “they’re stealing our women” sentiment.
That’s the same reason why Canadian English teachers became a menace to society in 2005, I believe…
The Korean film A MOMENT TO REMEMBER (Nae maeum sokeuro jiugae) (a remake of a Japanese film, strangely) just set the record for most successful Korean film ever in Japan, with around $26 million. No Bae Yong-joon in sight.
Did Aoyama make any comments about Korean films in general, or was he just complaining about Bae?
I’m not so sure they really do go to Korea in search of finding Yon-sama or someone similar though. As I mentioned before my Japanese friends that took a liking to Korean men only to find out that they’re really the same as anyone else all do it in the comfort of Japan where there is no shortage of Korean people.
Instead, I think they go to see the actual location where their beloved soap operas come from. I compare it to the Lord of the Rings fad. After lord of the rings, and probably still today, many people flocked to New Zealand, not looking to find a village of little people, (I haven’t seen more then the first hour of the first movie like 5 times, I’ve tried to watch, but I just find it so boring and can’t go on) but to see the scenery, the country that they were introduced to by the movie.
However, when talking about Korea, people see Korea in a movie, say, “I wanna go check that out” and then go. They find it’s a really nice country, with lots of cool culture and things like that, just those pesky Korean people that threaten their lives (I have a Japanese friend who works in Seoul, he’s had his life threatened no less than twice solely for being Japanese) or actually do kill them (last month a Japanese man was beat to death in a hotel in Korea, presumably for being Japanese). I know of 4 Japanese people in my group of friends that have gone to Korea, none have returned. Why? I can’t be sure, but I speculate that all this anti-Japanese stuff, as well as the Japanese government warning that if you go to Korea, don’t let anyone know that you’re Japanese because it’s not safe isn’t helping.
And I can’t blame them, if I was Japanese I would be afraid to go to Korea too, according to all media in the world, they will attack anything and everything violently. Heck, I’m even afraid to go to to visit my friend before he gets transfered back to Tokyo. He and I would be like killing two birds with one stone, an American speaking Japanese to a Japanese government employee.
Haisan, according to the linked article his comments appear to be directed only at Yon-sama. I’m currently looking for something about it in the Japanese media, but am not having any luck.
When will Koreans go to trial for what they did during the Korean war to Allied UN forces in the Korean war. It seems only fair that the world looks at the murder and torture of Allied UN forces during the Korean war by Koreans.
Nulji throws his troll comments up and forgets that Korean were also class A war criminals that were hung for their crimes. Koreans faught willingly for the japanese and were the most barbaric of any axis POW guards.
Nulji, Koreans were hung by the same courts that hung Japanese and yet, Koreans even today are not aware of this fact.
Allied powers faught against the Japanese and Koreans during WW2 and Allied powers with the UN faught against Koreans during the Korean war. Not enought Koreans have been brought to justice.
here are some Korean war photos.
http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/S.....photos.htm
Nulji,
here is your ‘blood’ murdered.
http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/smallarms/mrdrciv.htm
just because you are more interestd in learing about japanese murderers, dont forget that your ‘blood’ has done just as good a job at it.
I continue to maintain the position that instead of this film maker complaining about Bae Yong-joon why doesn’t he make better movies? This guy just sounds like he is jealous of Bae. For the record I can’t believe I’m defending Bae Yong-joon, but this Aoyama guy just seems like a whiner and is trying to play to Japanese nationalism instead of making better movies.
Sore losers.
Well I do agree that Aoyama is indeed being a whiner, I don’t think he’s trying to strip up nationalism. And even if he is, it isn’t working — I can’t find a single thing about it in the Japanese media.
But lets not forgot that Japan has a right-wing, and that this is a good thing. As long as Japan has a right-wing, that means that nationalism is considered a bad thing, where as in Korea for example, there is no right-wing, the norm is to be extremely nationalistic.
Korea has no one to blame but itself if it feels that nearly three times it’s original demands in settlement money aren’t enough. If the Korean government had wanted to, it could have given lots of the settlement money to the individuals that suffered, but choose not to. Regardless of it not being necessary by the settlement, the Japanese government continued to aid in the creation of private funds for individuals that suffered at Imperial Japans hand.
Author Takeuchi Mutsuhiro in his book ???????????????????????????80 believes that the reason the settlement between Korea and Japan denies Koreans the right to seek further compensation is because allowing so would also allow for former Japanese living in the Korea’s to sue for their own personal belongings that were either stolen by individuals directly after the war, or simply left behind, as well as their property that suddenly became not theirs over night. As a result, Korea would owe the people of Japan an estimated 8,000,000,000,000yen (yes, that’s 8 trillion .. roughly 68 billion usd).
I forgot to mention that the 8trillion yen is in todays money terms..
“believes that the reason the settlement between Korea and Japan denies Koreans the right to seek further compensation is because allowing so would also allow for former Japanese living in the Korea’s to sue for their own personal belongings that were either stolen by individuals directly after the war, or simply left behind, as well as their property that suddenly became not theirs over night.”
LOL. Is that the kind of crap that they believe over there? Oh how thoughtful and generous of them. It’s like the thief throwing his bag full of stolen goodies while fleeing in panick, then accusing the owner of the house for ’stealing’ his bag.
Well, regardless of the morality behind it, and regardless if people would try and sue for their property or not, the reality of the matter is that if it was decided that one side on an individual level could seek damages, the other side could too. Now I don’t think many people would try and seek compensation for the land as it really wasn’t theirs in the first place, but technically they would be able to.
I also looked for his source after posting that and found it, an article in the sankei paper, however it has since been archived or taken offline for whatever reason by sankei (I never understood why news papers delete articles, but many, many seem to) but there are still copies of it in it’s full floating around. I grabbed it and put it up here : http://www.imbermedia.net/user.....blog/?p=55 still in japanese.
upon reading the actual article, it says the total amount left in the whole korean peninsula was aprox 16trillion yen, and at half in each current country. if there was compensation for property damage included in the san fransico accord, it would mean that north korea would owe japan 5-6 trillion yen more then Japan would pay out. included in this number is buldings built for the japanese government and military (many are still used today, for example in the south isn’t the seoul town hall built by the japanese) as well as roads, schools, sea ports, and more famously the “enosuihou” (that’s a guess on the japanese reading.. no idea what the current north korean name is) dam, which even till this day is the largest electricity producing dam in the world (china’s trying to change that of course).
“It’s like the thief throwing his bag full of stolen goodies while fleeing in panick, then accusing the owner of the house for ’stealing’ his bag.”
not entirely I don’t think. don’t confuse the common people with the military. for example my girlfriends grandmother was in what is now n. korea during japanese occupation times. she was a teacher. she did nothing wrong correct? she hurt no one. yet almost the day after the war was over, her house was completely robbed and burnt to the ground, her most precious possession, a kimono that has been in her family basically since as long as her family has been in existence , was torched right before her eyes. sure she was in japanese occupied chosen, and she was japanese, but she didn’t really do anything wrong either right? however due to moral issues, i don’t think she would try and sue for her belongings either, but it would be legal if it was made so the korean side could as well.
now i have no idea if this was actually considered at the time of agreements directly after ww2, or in 1965 when s. korea and japan normalized relations, but it is possible.
for example my girlfriends grandmother was in what is now n. korea during japanese occupation times. she was a teacher. she did nothing wrong correct? she hurt no one. yet almost the day after the war was over, her house was completely robbed and burnt to the ground, her most precious possession, a kimono that has been in her family basically since as long as her family has been in existence , was torched right before her eyes. sure she was in japanese occupied chosen, and she was japanese, but she didn’t really do anything wrong either right? however due to moral issues, i don’t think she would try and sue for her belongings either, but it would be legal if it was made so the korean side could as well.
I feel for your grandmother’s situation. There were many Japanese who were in Korea and Taiwan with noble intent, often as teachers and other “helping” professions.
But the question would be: who to sue? The 1965 Japan-ROK agreement would have little to do with this case, since that was in North Korea.
But more important is the question of who did the torching? Korean civilians? Russian occupiers? Korean communists attached to the Soviet occupiers?
That it may well have been the Russians doing the looting isn’t mere idle speculation. Here’s a snippet from the October 8, 1945, edition of Time Magazine:The Russians are businesslike in occupying what was enemy territory.
Their attitude toward civilians is: “Give us what we want and keep the hell out of our way.” They brought fine weapons but few supplies, and they are living off the country. That probably stimulates the impression of widespread looting. Optimists say the Russians are rough because they don’t intend to stay. Pessimists say the Americans will throw up the game and pull out, leaving all the Orient to the Russians.
oh yes defiantly, who would she sue is an issue to complicate things. that comment was in response to “It’s like the thief throwing his bag full of stolen goodies while fleeing in panick, then accusing the owner of the house for ’stealing’ his bag”, to show that that isn’t always the case.
“But the question would be: who to sue? ”
i like to use the same logic back the opposite way though. who would the koreans demand payment from today ? the current japanese government did no crime. why should they have to pay for it? the current japanese people did no crime, but their taxes would have to pay for it. if korean people were allowed to seek compensation against the current japanese people, then the japanese people are also allowed to seek compensation from the current korean people.
as for the people that raided her home, their political association is not known, but they were korean. but lastly, she’s not my grandmother, but my girlfriends grandmother. i’m of pure dutch decent, so technically my distant relatives were sex slaves too.
while she may not be able to claim compensation if s. korea and japan had included individual claims in the agreement, she represents an example of what has happened, and there are more people like her throughout the whole peninsula, both north and south.
Darin wrote:
“But the question would be: who to sue? ”
i like to use the same logic back the opposite way though. who would the koreans demand payment from today ? the current japanese government did no crime. why should they have to pay for it?
I find that to be a cop-out. Post-imperial Japan was not created from the soil on up; the government inherited all that was there before, including liabilities and responsibilities.
If it were otherwise, why would Japan and South Korea be negotiating in the early 1960s in the first place?
the current japanese people did no crime, but their taxes would have to pay for it.
Taxes often pay for things that we don’t necessarily support, use, or want. That’s an empty argument. Taxes are a main source of revenue for governments, and they are used to pay for government liabilities, etc.
if korean people were allowed to seek compensation against the current japanese people, then the japanese people are also allowed to seek compensation from the current korean people.
And then other Koreans could seek compensation against those Japanese seeking compensation who were sitting on illegitimately obtained land and resources.
as for the people that raided her home, their political association is not known, but they were korean.
Very likely Korean communists, I would suspect, and probably with the blessing of the Russian authorities then, judging from what I’ve read.
But again, that was North Korea. The Americans were generally much better behaved, but that didn’t stop some Koreans in the south from getting at some particularly loathsome administrators, and probably a few innocents as well.
but lastly, she’s not my grandmother, but my girlfriends grandmother. i’m of pure dutch decent, so technically my distant relatives were sex slaves too.
The Dutch women who came forth in the 1990s, on television, probably gave a lot of strength to the Koreans, Chinese, Filipinas, and others who finally told their stories.
“And then other Koreans could seek compensation against those Japanese seeking compensation who were sitting on illegitimately obtained land and resources.”
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/.....ooperation
they already have and got their payment for it as well.
grr .. long url
http://tinyurl.com/8k8eb
they already have and got their payment for it as well.
No. The non-democratic government of the time got their payment.
And that’s a big problem, morally at least, with the issue as it stands.
Both sides, arguably, were acting in bad faith.
“No. The non-democratic government of the time got their payment.
And that’s a big problem, morally at least, with the issue as it stands.”
so japan has to pay the previous corrupt government AND then pay the current corrupt government too? the korean government of the time misused the money, that’s not japans problem. the korean government of the time got nearly 3 times what it asked for, it could have used some of the extra free money to pay individuals for their suffering, instead it built a road and made it’s corrupt friends rich too.
but what does this have to do with japan? why should japan have to pay twice? the money has been given, and it was misused by the korean government. once the people knew this, they tried to sue the korean side, and lost. rather then saying “damn, our government is corrupt” they try and get more free money from japan, kill an innocent man in a hotel, destroy property, attack police etc etc etc… and then talk about how the japanese side is wrong.
japan fulfilled it’s part of the law decided by GHQ, it has no more responsibility to anyone. i think japan should be making more of a stink about this. every time korea makes a scene, japan simply says “look at the law”.. then korea makes more of a stink, gets more media coverage, only their side of the story is told. if the world were to see both sides, i believe the world would think more along the lines of, “well, i guess laws are meaningless to korea”
non democratic government? Park Chung-hee was not labeled a dictator until 1972. he was a national hero in 1965 when he got all this money… why is it that every leader in korea is labeled a hero during their time, and then a crook afterwards? this national hero thing is really causing problems for korea….
“Very likely Korean communists, I would suspect, and probably with the blessing of the Russian authorities then, judging from what I’ve read.”
Does that mean that because they were communist koreans, not any other kind of korean that they’re not responsible for their actions? Or that North Korea doesn’t inherit the blame for what was previously done? Wouldn’t that also mean that any crimes done by fascist japanese would not be the problem of the current japanese? if rules are to be made, they need to be applied to both sides. So that would mean that Japan owes nothing to north korea then?
You know, two wrongs don’t make a right.
Kushibo has hijacked another thread. Now the dabate is on if japan has paid out enough money in 1965 or not.
The answer is they did.
Now back to the anti-korean wave. This is just a sigh that the wave has hit its crest. I think the ‘korean wave’ will be more mainstream in the future.
Kushibo has hijacked another thread. Now the dabate is on if japan has paid out enough money in 1965 or not.
No, Shingles/Dingleberries/whoever, that was Darin. And you know what? It was a natural and appropriate segue.
The answer is they did.
Did they pay some money? Absolutely.
Did they pay it to the right people? Probably not.
Did they pay enough money? That’s debatable, too.
Do Korean victims have any legal recourse in Japan? Maybe not.
Now back to the anti-korean wave. This is just a sigh that the wave has hit its crest. I think the ‘korean wave’ will be more mainstream in the future.
If it’s able to go mainstream and stay there, the former wave will probably still be referred to as a wave, mostly out of habit and ease of use.
“Very likely Korean communists, I would suspect, and probably with the blessing of the Russian authorities then, judging from what I’ve read.”
Does that mean that because they were communist koreans, not any other kind of korean that they’re not responsible for their actions?
No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. The communists had styled themselves as “freedom fighters” who were justified in using violence against any Japanese or collaborator with Japan, in whatever capacity, whereas many (but not all) of their ideological opponents sought independence through other means.
Or that North Korea doesn’t inherit the blame for what was previously done?
No, I’m not saying that at all. In fact, there were almost certainly a few Japanese killed in cold blood by the Russian and Korean communists, and if they are still alive they should be brought to justice (though if North Korea ever becomes free, the justice line is going to snake for miles behind the theater).
Wouldn’t that also mean that any crimes done by fascist japanese would not be the problem of the current japanese?
No. The Communists in the north are not off the hook and neither is Japan.
if rules are to be made, they need to be applied to both sides. So that would mean that Japan owes nothing to north korea then?
You know, two wrongs don’t make a right.
In the aggregate, what imperial Japan did to northern Korea was far more egregious than in the aftermath. But all murderers should face justice.
But, ahem, the 1965 agreement is about South Korea and Japan, not North Korea.
Okay good, so we agree that both sides needed to be treated the same.. I figured you didn’t mean it the way I interpreted it, but just wanted to be safe.
“Did they pay it to the right people? Probably not.”
Who should they have paid it to if the Korean Government was not the right people?
“Did they pay enough money? That’s debatable, too.”
They paid nearly three times the amount they were asked for. How much did they pay? Well, 3 million us dollars of free “we’re sorry money”, 2 million dollars in compensation, and over three million dollars in low interest private loans. Does it sound like a lot of money? Well, that’s all in 1965 money. Plus, in 1965, South Koreas TOTAL national budget was 3.5 million usd. overnight, they became 4 times the country they used to be. At the time, Japan had 18 million USD in foreign currency reserves. Japan gave nearly half of all the money it had directly to south korea. But South Korea is not the only country that wanted money to. do we need to dig up how much money China got too? People always compare how much Germany did to how much Japan did. Can someone give me some numbers for how much Germany gave and how much Germany had? I’m guessing that if germany gave away a larger sum then japan, on a percentage base japan gave more then germany. remember, japan had been fighting a long time and Japan did not get rich in it’s conquers, it got VERY poor. Japan invested all it’s money into Korea and other lands it conquered hoping for a payoff later. I’m not justifying, as it was clearly done not for the people of Korea but for the people of Japan, but the strategy was much different from that of Germany.
lastly, I don’t think I hijacked the post, I think Nulji did, I just didn’t let him get away with it, and Kushibo is doing the same to me, not letting me get away with saying only one side of the story — it’s a good thing, getting both sides of the story.
Oh personally, I like it when Kushibo “hijacks” posts. His comments are filled with facts and good opinions that only make everyone around him smarter, regardless of if I agree with them or not.
‘unless he’s enshrined at yasukuni, dr ishi is irrelevant…’
the prime minister of japan pays homage to the war criminals who created the situation for ishi. what he did IS relevant because of that. further, talking about ishi helps to illustrate the japanese and their atrocious behavior towards the chinese and koreans. it also shows how morally bankrupt so many westerners are when they try to defend those who keep them company.
kzumis pays homage to the men who created dr ishi. he is most relevant.
japan has a realization and a choice to make:
1. westerners cannot help japan here since it does not matter what westerners think. the koreans and chinese are really offended by your prime minister paying homage to war criminals. if you don’t stop your leader from visiting the shrine, japan will be further isolated in the world as both china and korea become wealthier. is that really beneficial for japan? there can be no good relations with korea until kzumi stops visiting evil.
2. the choice is yours.
‘and maybe more people should know about him (ishi).’
MAYBE?
… anyways… i translated the article from the sankei newspaper that says how much was left by japan in each of the koreas. it uses numbers determined by america in 1945, so it’s not like japan is increasing the numbers.
it also is written at a time (2002/9) when the talks about normalizing relations with N. Korea and Japan were in full swing, so it’s purpose is to show why japan is pushing not for compensation, but for cooperative economic developments just like what happened when relations between japan and south korea were normalized. it’s justification for such is that if n. korea was to claim compensation, then japan also could do it, and the amount japan could claim would be much much larger then that north korea could claim. it’s speculated by takeuchi mutsuhiro that the same was true for south korea but it’s not touched on in this particular article.
here it is:
http://www.imbermedia.net/user.....blog/?p=56
“there can be no good relations with korea until kzumi stops visiting evil.”
nulji: are you familiar with ??? (Chinreisha). be careful what you call evil, in effect you’re calling anyone who’s ever died in a war evil.
http://www.imbermedia.net/user.....blog/?p=15
regardless, that is a pretty selfish/childish argument don’t you think? “this is what I want and until I get it i’m going to throw a temper tantrum!!” does japan, or anyone for that matter really want good relations with that korea? I certainly don’t.
fortunately for korea, good people like Kushibo are also fighting on koreas side, hopefully for the sake of everyone, the numbers of people like him are greater then you.
personally i see an unprovoked attack from korea on japan in 2011.. when i say unprovoked, i mean first to fire shots. to me visiting a shrine and praying for peace doesn’t count as provoking.
Obviously Japanese wouldn’t have the courage to sue.
“further, talking about ishi helps to illustrate the japanese and their atrocious behavior towards the chinese and koreans.”
AND Allied POW’s/captured civilians.
“it also shows how morally bankrupt so many westerners are when they try to defend those who keep them company.”
I personally agree with that, but then again, it is our right as those who actually defeated Japan in WWII.
“westerners cannot help japan here since it does not matter what westerners think.”
Contrary to what might be taught in Korean schools, Westerners also bore losses caused by Japan at that time.
Contrary to what might be taught in Korean schools, Westerners also bore losses caused by Japan at that time.
Even the Chonkyojo (leftist Teachers Union) textbook refers to the ??? liberating Korea.
personally i see an unprovoked attack from korea on japan in 2011.. when i say unprovoked, i mean first to fire shots. to me visiting a shrine and praying for peace doesn’t count as provoking.
It’s oddly comforting to me that the many basement living shut-ins who believe in black helicopters and Timothy Mcveigh have their eager counterpart in Japan. It proves the fundamental and underlying unity of humanity regardless of the geographic and cultural distances that separate us.
“‘Contrary to what might be taught in Korean schools, Westerners also bore losses caused by Japan at that time.’
Even the Chonkyojo (leftist Teachers Union) textbook refers to the ??? liberating Korea.”
Delightful.
Nulji must have just been a poor student then.
shingles: “When will Koreans go to trial for what they did during the Korean war to Allied UN forces in the Korean war. It seems only fair that the world looks at the murder and torture of Allied UN forces during the Korean war by Koreans.”
Good point. If and when such trial happens, Allied veterans should demand a SINCERE apology.
Kushibo: “Even the Chonkyojo (leftist Teachers Union) textbook refers to the ??? liberating Korea.”
Beginning in 1974, Korean history textbooks began emphasizing the role of the Korean provisional government in regaining independence from Japan, while de-emphasizing the role of Allied forces in defeating Japan. http://www.ngoworld.pe.kr/bbs/.....&no=45
Since then, the issue has been whether to emphasize the role of the Independence Army at the expense of the provisional government or vice versa. Either way, Korean revisionism on this issue is firmly entrenched. Something to keep in mind the next time complaints about Japanese textbooks come up.
I had a long all encompassing comment written out to JYCE, but I’ll just ignore his personal attack and move on. JYCE, if you would like to send me hate mail directly, go to my web site (http://www.imbermedia.net) and use the form please.
Kushibo:
“”Did they pay it to the right people? Probably not.”"
So, who should the Japanese government have paid the settlement too in 1965 if the Korean government wasn’t the right people?
Woo-hoo!
“Obviously Japanese wouldn’t have the courage to sue.”
eeee, that all depends on how you look at it. Perhaps courage is required to sue in American culture, but in Japan suing, requires stupidity, lack of self-respect, and all-around bad people skills. The Japanese would tend to look at sue happy America, and say, what a bunch of idiots.
I agree that most Japanese people would not sue, but not because they have no courage, but because they look down on suing, just as they due rioting. Cultural differences often cause for big misunderstandings on both sides.
Darin, you need to wipe off your chin, there is some of Kushibo load on it.
Ah yes, the true maturity level shows through. Kushibo, is this really even a cause worth fighting for? Join the dark side, with your help we’ll be unstoppable. Hehe.
“Ah yes, the true maturity level shows through.”
Darin,
Steve Kim is not a Korean. He is one of the personas of Dingles, Shingles, Takeshima
I’m so confused… So who’s side is he on then? (I assumed he was on Kushibo’s side — never really considered nationality/race.)
Does that mean he’s on my ’side’? Doh! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot huh.
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