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	<title>Comments on: The strange, strange world of Hwang Woo-suk</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Shin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/#comment-26243</link>
		<dc:creator>Shin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2005 21:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2189#comment-26243</guid>
		<description>an earlier comment: "being in the majority means they are right" - Actually this echoes something my dad told me once. 
There has been no Enlightenment period of deep rationalization in Korea, as it moved from an archaic feudal society to a pseudo-modern one more or less against its will. Ends-justifies-means is still the rule, I think.
I remember the Korean-American author of a book about Korean "Camp Towns" (small towns around US army bases populated with prostitutes) being lectured by a Korean reporter for writing about a negative aspect of Korea. The author's motive for writing the book was partly the fact that these towns are rarely if ever mentioned in the Korean press, usually hidden away, its unfortunate residents shunned. The reporter said "what do you think this will do for Korea's image?"
Korea could do with more ego-busting investigative journalism, and I am proud of the MBC reporters who broke the story. 
Though I am Korean, my first allegiance is to my intellect and freedom of thought. All my relatives, however, how hopelessly myopic.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>an earlier comment: &#8220;being in the majority means they are right&#8221; - Actually this echoes something my dad told me once.<br />
There has been no Enlightenment period of deep rationalization in Korea, as it moved from an archaic feudal society to a pseudo-modern one more or less against its will. Ends-justifies-means is still the rule, I think.<br />
I remember the Korean-American author of a book about Korean &#8220;Camp Towns&#8221; (small towns around US army bases populated with prostitutes) being lectured by a Korean reporter for writing about a negative aspect of Korea. The author&#8217;s motive for writing the book was partly the fact that these towns are rarely if ever mentioned in the Korean press, usually hidden away, its unfortunate residents shunned. The reporter said &#8220;what do you think this will do for Korea&#8217;s image?&#8221;<br />
Korea could do with more ego-busting investigative journalism, and I am proud of the MBC reporters who broke the story.<br />
Though I am Korean, my first allegiance is to my intellect and freedom of thought. All my relatives, however, how hopelessly myopic.</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/#comment-26242</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 07:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2189#comment-26242</guid>
		<description>There are some good and honest Koreans still.  Young professors in various Seoul National University(SNU) demanded that Hwang's result to be re-examined.  They are suspicious of DNA fingerprints and photos of stem cells published in the Science journal.  

About twenty of them from various science departments demanded the president of SNU to verify those data.  The old man suggested a possible committee to oversee scientific fraud but is adamant in his view that SNU should not get involved in Hwang's affair.

What a typical bureaucrat!  "Don't do nothing and you don't get hurt." is his motto.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some good and honest Koreans still.  Young professors in various Seoul National University(SNU) demanded that Hwang&#8217;s result to be re-examined.  They are suspicious of DNA fingerprints and photos of stem cells published in the Science journal.  </p>
<p>About twenty of them from various science departments demanded the president of SNU to verify those data.  The old man suggested a possible committee to oversee scientific fraud but is adamant in his view that SNU should not get involved in Hwang&#8217;s affair.</p>
<p>What a typical bureaucrat!  &#8220;Don&#8217;t do nothing and you don&#8217;t get hurt.&#8221; is his motto.</p>
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		<title>By: Mizar5</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/#comment-26241</link>
		<dc:creator>Mizar5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 16:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2189#comment-26241</guid>
		<description>XXX:"So how does this prove Hwang is a 'charlatan', as you've put it?"

It doesn't, and, for the second time, I did not put it that way. You apparently missed my response to you in which I corrected your misreading of my statement.

XXX: "That article says there should be a 'probe', it doesn't say they are absoultely sure he's a 'charlatan'." 

Yes, as is consistent with my own statements.     

XXX:"Doesn't this make you just as bad as those Koreans (whom you condemn) that jump to conclusions."

No, because I did not jump to conclusions.  But you have. Reread my posts and see why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>XXX:&#8221;So how does this prove Hwang is a &#8216;charlatan&#8217;, as you&#8217;ve put it?&#8221;</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t, and, for the second time, I did not put it that way. You apparently missed my response to you in which I corrected your misreading of my statement.</p>
<p>XXX: &#8220;That article says there should be a &#8216;probe&#8217;, it doesn&#8217;t say they are absoultely sure he&#8217;s a &#8216;charlatan&#8217;.&#8221; </p>
<p>Yes, as is consistent with my own statements.     </p>
<p>XXX:&#8221;Doesn&#8217;t this make you just as bad as those Koreans (whom you condemn) that jump to conclusions.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, because I did not jump to conclusions.  But you have. Reread my posts and see why.</p>
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		<title>By: XXX</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/#comment-26240</link>
		<dc:creator>XXX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2189#comment-26240</guid>
		<description>So how does this prove Hwang is a 'charlatan', as you've put it? That article says there should be a 'probe', it doesn't say they are absoultely sure he's a 'charlatan'. Doesn't this make you just as bad as those Koreans (whom you condemn) that jump to conclusions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how does this prove Hwang is a &#8216;charlatan&#8217;, as you&#8217;ve put it? That article says there should be a &#8216;probe&#8217;, it doesn&#8217;t say they are absoultely sure he&#8217;s a &#8216;charlatan&#8217;. Doesn&#8217;t this make you just as bad as those Koreans (whom you condemn) that jump to conclusions.</p>
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		<title>By: Mizar5</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/#comment-26239</link>
		<dc:creator>Mizar5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2189#comment-26239</guid>
		<description>From Seoul Times: 

MBC Quest for Truth Foiled in Harsh Attack
Patriotic Locals, Conservative Dailies Bar Investigation
 
MBC's "PD Notebook" says it will lend eyes and ears to social wrongdoings and to voices of the poor and suffering people as an honest witness of our time.   

A local network TV's efforts to reveal "possible" ethical problems or even Prof. Hwang's tampering with research data now appear foiled as the MBC TV opted for public apology for their own breach in journalistic code of ethics in its pursuit for truth.

Faced with mounting criticism or, some might say, a "ruthless" attack from "patriotic" South Korean netizens, MBC apologized Dec. 4, 2005 to the public for coercing one of the involved researchers to confess details about its investigation.

The official apology was made amid increasing pressure and attack from the Big Three conservative dailies as well as nationalistic netizens (highly active internet citizens). As a result, advertisers have boycotted MBC's investigative news program "PD Notebook," and now the broadcaster itself. All but one out of a dozen sponsored ads were withdrawn as a sign of strong protest.

It looks like MBC was attacked by conservative dailies and patriotic locals when the broadcaster tried to "attack" Prof. Hwang Woo-Suk of the Seoul National University, the world's pioneer in the stem cell research.

When MBC's "PD Notebook," similar to "60 Minutes" of America's CBS, began its investigative piece into ethical questions raised by foreign media and journals including Science and Nature, it came under immediate cross-fire from the Big Three dailies and netizens desperate to "protect," South Korea's first would-be scientist to be applauded with Novel medical prize.

Yet, MBC's scrutiny of possible data tampering and the ethics behind Prof. Hwang's stem cell research, should get credit when most of the nation's media went all out with nothing but praise for Hwang's achievement.

Media Today, a local journal dealing with issues with media and the media industry, praised MBC's efforts to reveal the truth or confirm Hwang's achievement.

It said that the "PD Notebook" journalists' efforts were based on their firm belief and perseverance needed for investigative journalism.

It pointed out that MBC was the only media outlet to attempt to fulfill its duty of investigative journalism in its quest for the truth.

Actually, Prof. Hwang's outstanding achievements have never been checked or confirmed by any local media. But on the international stage Prof. Hwang's performances were questioned by the international media and scientific journals on the ethical issues in the research process.

In particular, Prof. Hwang received a tremendous amount of funding from the South Korean government for his research which obviously comes out of the tax payer's pocket.

Earlier this year the South Korean government announced it would contribute 24.5 billion won (nearly 23.7 million US dollars) to Prof. Hwang for his study and his research facilities.

From this perspective, it is natural that media try to probe into the questions raised by the international media. There is a social need to check and confirm Hwang's research from the ethical aspect, Media Today argued.

MBC's "PD Notebook" had long been studying the possibility that Prof. Hwang's achievements were exagerated.

"Prof. Hwang's research should be probed when there are questions or doubts about the authenticity of his research performances," Media Today quoted an a MBC official as saying, "Truth is more important than national interests</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Seoul Times: </p>
<p>MBC Quest for Truth Foiled in Harsh Attack<br />
Patriotic Locals, Conservative Dailies Bar Investigation</p>
<p>MBC&#8217;s &#8220;PD Notebook&#8221; says it will lend eyes and ears to social wrongdoings and to voices of the poor and suffering people as an honest witness of our time.   </p>
<p>A local network TV&#8217;s efforts to reveal &#8220;possible&#8221; ethical problems or even Prof. Hwang&#8217;s tampering with research data now appear foiled as the MBC TV opted for public apology for their own breach in journalistic code of ethics in its pursuit for truth.</p>
<p>Faced with mounting criticism or, some might say, a &#8220;ruthless&#8221; attack from &#8220;patriotic&#8221; South Korean netizens, MBC apologized Dec. 4, 2005 to the public for coercing one of the involved researchers to confess details about its investigation.</p>
<p>The official apology was made amid increasing pressure and attack from the Big Three conservative dailies as well as nationalistic netizens (highly active internet citizens). As a result, advertisers have boycotted MBC&#8217;s investigative news program &#8220;PD Notebook,&#8221; and now the broadcaster itself. All but one out of a dozen sponsored ads were withdrawn as a sign of strong protest.</p>
<p>It looks like MBC was attacked by conservative dailies and patriotic locals when the broadcaster tried to &#8220;attack&#8221; Prof. Hwang Woo-Suk of the Seoul National University, the world&#8217;s pioneer in the stem cell research.</p>
<p>When MBC&#8217;s &#8220;PD Notebook,&#8221; similar to &#8220;60 Minutes&#8221; of America&#8217;s CBS, began its investigative piece into ethical questions raised by foreign media and journals including Science and Nature, it came under immediate cross-fire from the Big Three dailies and netizens desperate to &#8220;protect,&#8221; South Korea&#8217;s first would-be scientist to be applauded with Novel medical prize.</p>
<p>Yet, MBC&#8217;s scrutiny of possible data tampering and the ethics behind Prof. Hwang&#8217;s stem cell research, should get credit when most of the nation&#8217;s media went all out with nothing but praise for Hwang&#8217;s achievement.</p>
<p>Media Today, a local journal dealing with issues with media and the media industry, praised MBC&#8217;s efforts to reveal the truth or confirm Hwang&#8217;s achievement.</p>
<p>It said that the &#8220;PD Notebook&#8221; journalists&#8217; efforts were based on their firm belief and perseverance needed for investigative journalism.</p>
<p>It pointed out that MBC was the only media outlet to attempt to fulfill its duty of investigative journalism in its quest for the truth.</p>
<p>Actually, Prof. Hwang&#8217;s outstanding achievements have never been checked or confirmed by any local media. But on the international stage Prof. Hwang&#8217;s performances were questioned by the international media and scientific journals on the ethical issues in the research process.</p>
<p>In particular, Prof. Hwang received a tremendous amount of funding from the South Korean government for his research which obviously comes out of the tax payer&#8217;s pocket.</p>
<p>Earlier this year the South Korean government announced it would contribute 24.5 billion won (nearly 23.7 million US dollars) to Prof. Hwang for his study and his research facilities.</p>
<p>From this perspective, it is natural that media try to probe into the questions raised by the international media. There is a social need to check and confirm Hwang&#8217;s research from the ethical aspect, Media Today argued.</p>
<p>MBC&#8217;s &#8220;PD Notebook&#8221; had long been studying the possibility that Prof. Hwang&#8217;s achievements were exagerated.</p>
<p>&#8220;Prof. Hwang&#8217;s research should be probed when there are questions or doubts about the authenticity of his research performances,&#8221; Media Today quoted an a MBC official as saying, &#8220;Truth is more important than national interests</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/#comment-26238</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2189#comment-26238</guid>
		<description>This chopstick theory is so funny.  I have heard it about 20 years ago when I was stationed in Korea.  Some Adjussi told me that Koreans are very dextrous because of constant use of chopsticks.

Does it make sense?  The Chinese, the Japanese and all Asian nations use chopsticks.  What is this nonsense about Koreans with chopsticks?  Obviously these Adjussis have never been outside of Korea and have no idea that other countries do use chopsticks too.  All Asians do!  

"Frogs in a well" describes Koreans to the tee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This chopstick theory is so funny.  I have heard it about 20 years ago when I was stationed in Korea.  Some Adjussi told me that Koreans are very dextrous because of constant use of chopsticks.</p>
<p>Does it make sense?  The Chinese, the Japanese and all Asian nations use chopsticks.  What is this nonsense about Koreans with chopsticks?  Obviously these Adjussis have never been outside of Korea and have no idea that other countries do use chopsticks too.  All Asians do!  </p>
<p>&#8220;Frogs in a well&#8221; describes Koreans to the tee.</p>
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		<title>By: Mizar5</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/#comment-26237</link>
		<dc:creator>Mizar5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 07:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2189#comment-26237</guid>
		<description>Kushibo: "Mizar5, I wanted to respond to this properly but I can't find where this is from. Do you have a link to the comment? Marmot's keeps freezing up when I search for "monolithic.""

Kusibo, I like you. A lot. You're argumentative but intelligent. Irascible, but not unreasonable. Mostly, you speak your mind, and unlike most, you do have a mind worth speaking. Finally, you challenge me. Thanks. Therefore, I apologize if I attributed someone else's quote to you. That was lazy, hasty and foolish.

XXX: "Isn't calling him a "charlatan" going too far? After all, no one has yet proven all of Hwang's works are lies, as you are claiming it is - based on what?"

I didn't call him a charlatan. I said that we Koreans are willing to make a hero of even a charlatan. And we are simply not sure that he isn't one yet. That bespeaks desparation and lack of ethics. That's my point.

He may not be a complete fraud in terms of the research. But he is without doubt a charlatan as a human being, since he covered up his knowledge of the pay-for-ova scheme. As well as his mention of that ludicrous and embarrassing chopsticks theory intimating Korean superiority. Add to this his play for publicity, including the stupid comment about defending a "national property" from foreign scavangers and now his fake illness. He has done more damage to Korean science than anyone. Good riddance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kushibo: &#8220;Mizar5, I wanted to respond to this properly but I can&#8217;t find where this is from. Do you have a link to the comment? Marmot&#8217;s keeps freezing up when I search for &#8220;monolithic.&#8221;"</p>
<p>Kusibo, I like you. A lot. You&#8217;re argumentative but intelligent. Irascible, but not unreasonable. Mostly, you speak your mind, and unlike most, you do have a mind worth speaking. Finally, you challenge me. Thanks. Therefore, I apologize if I attributed someone else&#8217;s quote to you. That was lazy, hasty and foolish.</p>
<p>XXX: &#8220;Isn&#8217;t calling him a &#8220;charlatan&#8221; going too far? After all, no one has yet proven all of Hwang&#8217;s works are lies, as you are claiming it is - based on what?&#8221;</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t call him a charlatan. I said that we Koreans are willing to make a hero of even a charlatan. And we are simply not sure that he isn&#8217;t one yet. That bespeaks desparation and lack of ethics. That&#8217;s my point.</p>
<p>He may not be a complete fraud in terms of the research. But he is without doubt a charlatan as a human being, since he covered up his knowledge of the pay-for-ova scheme. As well as his mention of that ludicrous and embarrassing chopsticks theory intimating Korean superiority. Add to this his play for publicity, including the stupid comment about defending a &#8220;national property&#8221; from foreign scavangers and now his fake illness. He has done more damage to Korean science than anyone. Good riddance.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/#comment-26236</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 06:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2189#comment-26236</guid>
		<description>I really don't mean to make light of the situation, but it has degenerated into farce anyway, with the usual cast of "angry netizens" and the candlight rally bullshit. I wondered about the hurry to crown Hwang the king of Korean science, though, especially by the gov't. Throwing taxpayer money at a guy whose research has barely begun (if it is even legitimate at all) just seems too typically "ppali ppali" in the way that Korea rushes to the international stage and trips on its own feet trying to get there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t mean to make light of the situation, but it has degenerated into farce anyway, with the usual cast of &#8220;angry netizens&#8221; and the candlight rally bullshit. I wondered about the hurry to crown Hwang the king of Korean science, though, especially by the gov&#8217;t. Throwing taxpayer money at a guy whose research has barely begun (if it is even legitimate at all) just seems too typically &#8220;ppali ppali&#8221; in the way that Korea rushes to the international stage and trips on its own feet trying to get there.</p>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/#comment-26235</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 06:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2189#comment-26235</guid>
		<description>Michael, I love your comments.

Hwang knew how to play the media from the getgo.  He is not a typical scientist with a heavy-rimmed eyeglass.  He is more like a politician. He is into power and money and wanted to be the dean of the SNU Vetenarian school right after he "invented" human cloning. If I were in the forefront of science like that, I would be in the lab 24/7 to make another great discovery.

He frequently bragged that his research will bring more money than Samsung in three years.  Meanwhile, he is soaking up all health-related research money in Korea.  All tax money.  Many bio-related scientists in DaeJun are mad at Hwang for literally stopping all other research in Korea but his own.

Violin?  It maybe playing outside the hospital where Hwang's lemmings gathered with candles.  Why candlelight? Maybe they are mourning for his death(or his exile) in advance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, I love your comments.</p>
<p>Hwang knew how to play the media from the getgo.  He is not a typical scientist with a heavy-rimmed eyeglass.  He is more like a politician. He is into power and money and wanted to be the dean of the SNU Vetenarian school right after he &#8220;invented&#8221; human cloning. If I were in the forefront of science like that, I would be in the lab 24/7 to make another great discovery.</p>
<p>He frequently bragged that his research will bring more money than Samsung in three years.  Meanwhile, he is soaking up all health-related research money in Korea.  All tax money.  Many bio-related scientists in DaeJun are mad at Hwang for literally stopping all other research in Korea but his own.</p>
<p>Violin?  It maybe playing outside the hospital where Hwang&#8217;s lemmings gathered with candles.  Why candlelight? Maybe they are mourning for his death(or his exile) in advance.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/12/03/the-strange-strange-world-of-hwang-woo-suk/#comment-26234</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 05:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2189#comment-26234</guid>
		<description>This is a great photo of Hwang in a hospital bed:

&lt;a href="http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200512/200512070014.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200512/200512070014.html&lt;/a&gt;

Not shaving was a good touch. I hear violins!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great photo of Hwang in a hospital bed:</p>
<p><a href="http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200512/200512070014.html" rel="nofollow">http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....70014.html</a></p>
<p>Not shaving was a good touch. I hear violins!</p>
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