Comments on: Schatten demanded 50% of stem cell patent shares: JoongAng Ilbo http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/ Korea... in Blog Format Sun, 6 Jul 2008 22:36:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: juan http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/#comment-26005 juan Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:30:16 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2177#comment-26005 Sorry about the link above, this link might work: <a href="http://news.sbs.co.kr/sbsnews_NewsDetail.jhtml?news_id=N1000033798" rel="nofollow">http://news.sbs.co.kr/sbsnews_NewsDetail.jhtml?news_id=N1000033798</a> Sorry about the link above, this link might work:

http://news.sbs.co.kr/sbsnews_.....1000033798

]]> By: juan http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/#comment-26004 juan Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:28:56 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2177#comment-26004 The next MBC PD report will be a blast to watch. This may turn into Science Mag. vs. MBC PD Report. <a href="http://news.naver.com/hotissue/read.php?hotissue_id=554&hotissue_item_id=18751&office_id=055&article_id=0000058716&section_id=8" rel="nofollow">http://news.naver.com/hotissue/read.php?hotissue_id=554&hotissue_item_id=18751&office_id=055&article_id=0000058716&section_id=8</a> Sorry but the newslink of the Science Magazine editor interview is in Korean since SBS News did it. But to summarize it in short: "The value of the paper has been tarnished by the uncovered issues...... but there is no possiblity of the results being a sham," and that "Science will continue its cooperation with Dr. Hwang.... but the fact that he lied about the egg procurements is the burden that Dr. Hwang will have to carry into the future. The next MBC PD report will be a blast to watch.

This may turn into Science Mag. vs. MBC PD Report. http://news.naver.com/hotissue.....ction_id=8

Sorry but the newslink of the Science Magazine editor interview is in Korean since SBS News did it.
But to summarize it in short:
“The value of the paper has been tarnished by the uncovered issues…… but there is no possiblity of the results being a sham,” and that “Science will continue its cooperation with Dr. Hwang…. but the fact that he lied about the egg procurements is the burden that Dr. Hwang will have to carry into the future.

]]> By: juan http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/#comment-26003 juan Thu, 01 Dec 2005 00:47:44 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2177#comment-26003 Marmot, I think its a little late but I think it's Schatten not Shatten. Correct me if I'm wrong. Marmot, I think its a little late but I think it’s Schatten not Shatten. Correct me if I’m wrong.

]]> By: juan http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/#comment-26002 juan Thu, 01 Dec 2005 00:08:02 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2177#comment-26002 I applaud MBC PD Reports FIRST show. But on this second one? I agree with Kushibo that MBC needs to be scrutinized on this one. They may be carrying things too far. Lets wait and see. I applaud MBC PD Reports FIRST show.

But on this second one? I agree with Kushibo that MBC needs to be scrutinized on this one. They may be carrying things too far. Lets wait and see.

]]> By: Kushibo http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/#comment-26001 Kushibo Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:35:37 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2177#comment-26001 This makes me wonder a couple things. First, if the procedures and results were a sham, why would they dispatch people to other universities outside the country to reproduce the results? Dr. Schatten himself, after breaking off ties with Dr. Hwang over the procurement of the eggs, still said the science was, to his knowledge, reliable. I'm not sure if he changed that. Also, I think that scrutiny of the MBC report is in order. I'm reminded of CBS's expose of Bush's military record right before the election. Even if they got the story right (still a possibility) the documents were almost certainly bogus. If MBC PD Report (I think that's the official title, but I'm not sure) built their case on innuendo and people pointing fingers at others to save their own skin, I'm not so sure how much I would believe it. Finally, if Hwang turns out to be a big charlatan, I think that the major blow to Korea's scientific credibility will turn out to be a good thing: it will be a wake-up call for a lot of people to change the way things are done. A lot of soul-searching will happen. Not unlike what Brendon Carr asserted with his Galapagos Island analogy. This makes me wonder a couple things. First, if the procedures and results were a sham, why would they dispatch people to other universities outside the country to reproduce the results? Dr. Schatten himself, after breaking off ties with Dr. Hwang over the procurement of the eggs, still said the science was, to his knowledge, reliable. I’m not sure if he changed that.

Also, I think that scrutiny of the MBC report is in order. I’m reminded of CBS’s expose of Bush’s military record right before the election. Even if they got the story right (still a possibility) the documents were almost certainly bogus. If MBC PD Report (I think that’s the official title, but I’m not sure) built their case on innuendo and people pointing fingers at others to save their own skin, I’m not so sure how much I would believe it.

Finally, if Hwang turns out to be a big charlatan, I think that the major blow to Korea’s scientific credibility will turn out to be a good thing: it will be a wake-up call for a lot of people to change the way things are done. A lot of soul-searching will happen. Not unlike what Brendon Carr asserted with his Galapagos Island analogy.

]]> By: Michael http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/#comment-26000 Michael Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:01:01 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2177#comment-26000 Oranckay, somebody is claiming Hwang's research results are a sham: <a href="http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200511/200511280025.html" rel="nofollow">http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200511/200511280025.html</a> They even plan to air the show without commercials if all advertisers bail: <a href="http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200511/200511280027.html" rel="nofollow">http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200511/200511280027.html</a> That would indicate the program producers are confident they have some damning evidence about Hwang's research. First, that would be a shame for science in Korea, if true. Second, the PD Diary crew should be lauded for real investigative journalism, if they do it right (it would be ironic if they were unethical in developing the story). Real journalism is a rarity in S.K. Oranckay, somebody is claiming Hwang’s research results are a sham:
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....80025.html

They even plan to air the show without commercials if all advertisers bail:
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....80027.html

That would indicate the program producers are confident they have some damning evidence about Hwang’s research. First, that would be a shame for science in Korea, if true. Second, the PD Diary crew should be lauded for real investigative journalism, if they do it right (it would be ironic if they were unethical in developing the story). Real journalism is a rarity in S.K.

]]> By: nulji http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/#comment-25999 nulji Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:42:17 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2177#comment-25999 'a complete laughing stock...' kimbob one must wonder if dr hwang would do such a thing knowing what it would do to korea. ‘a complete laughing stock…’ kimbob

one must wonder if dr hwang would do such a thing knowing what it would do to korea.

]]> By: baduk http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/#comment-25998 baduk Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:19:38 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2177#comment-25998 This is how an article gets published in Scientific journals. 1) An article is submitted to the journal. 2) It goes to a committee of knowledgeable scientists(usually two or three) in that particular area. 3) They comment on the article. They do not have resources to repeat the experiments. They just look over writing and see all necessary work was done. 4)They recommend the article for publication. Schatten probably was the one who read and approved Hwang's work. There has been no verification of any kind. Not even to today. MBC got a Hwang's stem cell and found it be the same as one of other stem cell line(made with a sperm and an ovum) kept by Rho Sungil. In other words, Hwang's cell was not what it was reported to be(a nuclear transfer). This is how an article gets published in Scientific journals.
1) An article is submitted to the journal.
2) It goes to a committee of knowledgeable scientists(usually two or three) in that particular area.
3) They comment on the article. They do not have resources to repeat the experiments. They just look over writing and see all necessary work was done.
4)They recommend the article for publication.

Schatten probably was the one who read and approved Hwang’s work. There has been no verification of any kind. Not even to today.

MBC got a Hwang’s stem cell and found it be the same as one of other stem cell line(made with a sperm and an ovum) kept by Rho Sungil. In other words, Hwang’s cell was not what it was reported to be(a nuclear transfer).

]]> By: oranckay http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/#comment-25997 oranckay Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:06:55 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2177#comment-25997 Kimbob says: "MBC PD Diary is working on a story that they claim Hwang's research results are a sham" Not true. No one has suggested there are holes in the actual research. I have a question of more immediate importance for the kind of person that would be reading this blog, maybe someone knows the answer.... The English language JoongAng daily didn't do that same story in English at all, right? Which is why Marmot translated most of it? IF true (and I'm not sure), what does that tell you about JoongAng Daily? Kimbob says: “MBC PD Diary is working on a story that they claim Hwang’s research results are a sham”

Not true. No one has suggested there are holes in the actual research.

I have a question of more immediate importance for the kind of person that would be reading this blog, maybe someone knows the answer….

The English language JoongAng daily didn’t do that same story in English at all, right? Which is why Marmot translated most of it? IF true (and I’m not sure), what does that tell you about JoongAng Daily?

]]> By: juan http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/11/29/shatten-demanded-50-of-stem-cell-patent-shares-joongang-ilbo/#comment-25996 juan Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:01:22 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2177#comment-25996 Sorry Kimbob, my you wasn't directed to you, it was directed to poeple in general. And as I told baduk about the story, lets wait and see. ;-) Sorry Kimbob, my you wasn’t directed to you, it was directed to poeple in general. And as I told baduk about the story, lets wait and see. ;-)

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