By BRENDON CARR
Marmot’s Hole Guest Blogger
An interesting tidbit in the Korean papers over the weekend: Microsoft’s latest quarterly filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (10-Q) (Microsoft Word file, naturally; 909KB) makes reference to the ongoing investigation of the Korea Fair Trade Commission (KFTC) of Microsoft’s alleged unfair product-tying practice of bundling Windows Media Player and Windows Messenger. And it looks a little bit like a threat from Uncle Bill:
The Korean Fair Trade Commission (”KFTC”) has been investigating whether our inclusion of streaming media technology or instant messenger technology in Windows, or the inclusion of Windows Media Services as an optional component of Windows Server, violates the Korean Fair Trade Law. The KFTC has been conducting hearings periodically since July 2005. The KFTC could enter a remedial order that could bar us from offering a version of Windows in Korea that included media or messenger technologies or bar us from offering Windows Server with Windows Media Services as an optional component. If the KFTC enters an order requiring Microsoft to remove code or redesign Windows uniquely for the Korean market, it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea unless the remedial order is stayed or overturned on appeal. (Emphasis added.)
Contrast the foregoing to the treatment of this same topic in Microsoft’s earlier FY2005 annual S.E.C. filing (10-K) (Microsoft Word file; 1.49MB). See if you can recognize the evolution of Microsoft’s thinking:
The Korean Fair Trade Commission (KFTC) is investigating whether we have violated Korean competition law by including Windows Media Player technologies in Windows, by including Windows Messenger in Windows, or by distributing Windows Media Services as an optional component of Windows Server.
Ouch. Keep it up, KFTC, no Windows Vista for you. If Microsoft pulls out of Korea, whose operating system will be pirated onto all those computers?
Would Microsoft really abandon the Korean market? Probably not (Uncle Bill did just open a US$30 million research center here), but it is interesting to note that at the same time Korea supposedly buys US$100 million a year from Microsoft (the same figure, by the way, Microsoft Korea claimed to a reporter in 1999, which doesn’t speak well of Korea as a “growth market” for the software industry), Australia and New Zealand together account for revenue of US$1.2 billion. Together, those countries’ GDPs are US$700 billion, while Korea’s is US$925 billion (according to the 2004 figures in the CIA World Factbook) — so the larger, tech-savvy economy buys just 8.5% the value of Microsoft software that the smaller one does. And Australia and New Zealand’s localization and support costs are a mite less, one may expect, since they are also English-speaking countries. Now, to be fair, those countries’ per-capita incomes are a lot higher, but isn’t it a little bit strange that their sales are 12 times greater?
129 Comments
Maybe Korea will be spured to develop its own operating system.
****
I’m sad to see Marmot allowing this guy as a guest blogger. He readily admits he’s got a grudge against Koreans. You can see it in the writing above.
Why don’t you ever allow a non-apologist Korean to be your guest?
Yes, it would be brilliant if Korea developed its own operating system. After all, Hangul (the word processing software) has done so much to enhance Korea’s IT reputation — I know I love getting .hwp files sent to me.
Sigh.
So where is the “grudge” in the above writing? All his facts are sourced. I don’t see much emotion or judgment, aside from thinking it is “strange” that Korea spends so little on Microsoft.
Anyhow, welcome to Marmot’s Hole, Mr. Carr. Nice to see you here. I’ll give you at least two weeks before I flood your email inbox with complaints about the lack of new posts. I know how much you enjoy that.
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/05.....123tid=219
100 million or 224 million?
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....80020.html
Comments at Slashdot run very heavily against Microsoft, which is not surprising given Slashdot’s “1337 h4×0r” readership. Me, I use a Mac and although I bought MS Office 2004 for the Mac (regrettably, it’s a pig), I use Safari, Mail.app, Nisus Writer, and Mesa3 for my daily software needs. So I’m not really much of a Microsoft customer although my OS/2-era dislike has softened. Still, I feel pretty sorry for Microsoft here.
PC shipments in Korea probably exceed 3.5 million per year. If, as its representative is quoted in the Korea Herald, Microsoft only sells US$100 million worth of software here — assuming that a Windows license can’t be had for less than W60,000 — even if we assume zero sales of MS Office and all other Microsoft products, the piracy rate for Windows must be in excess of 60%.
But sales from other Microsoft products can’t be zero, which probably pushes the Windows piracy rate higher. And there are mixed reports on Microsoft Korea’s revenue. This story from the International Herald Tribune in August indicates Korea revenue of W240 billion (US$235 million or so) for the preceding year. My guess is the US$100 million figure refers to software sales into the domestic market, with US$135 million going to software sales to Korean manufacturers of exported products.
Anyway, with a 90% market share in this IT powerhouse, US$100 million is a pretty poor return for an alleged monopolist. I thought a monopolist was supposed to make huge profits from its monopoly. Where are Microsoft’s huge profits from Korea?
i?m sad to see marmot allowing this guy as a guest blogger. he readily admits he?s got a grudge against koreans. you can see it in the writing above.
why don?t you ever allow a non-apologist korean to be your guest?
What the hell, I will support your bid to be a guest blogger, nulji. What do you say, marmot?
Let’s have nulji as the guest blogger, that’ll be a riot. But then again it could even get worse and have the guy above be one as well.
Let?s have nulji as the guest blogger, that?ll be a riot. But then again it could even get worse and have the guy above be one as well.
I am already blogging, so no thanks. Why dont you put yourself forward, kimbob? Then you can have everything you write analysed and criticised - its quite an experience.
Actually, I am thinking of starting up my own blog. The only thing that’s I’m afraid is that if I do start writing up a storm, nobody would read them and or nobody would care. I’d have to constantly think up a controversy to keep this all interesting. I’m a bit too lazy on that regard I guess. And how to advertise the blog?
Actually, I am thinking of starting up my own blog. The only thing that?s I?m afraid is that if I do start writing up a storm, nobody would read them and or nobody would care. I?d have to constantly think up a controversy to keep this all interesting. I?m a bit too lazy on that regard I guess. And how to advertise the blog?
You dont have to worry about being controversial. Virtually any opinion that you could possibly express will have die hard opponents, and die hard supporters. Even if you consider yourself middle of the road, some people will find the equivocation to be objectionable. As long as you are dealing with issues (like Korean issues, which are always firery), and not boring stuff like what your pet dog had for breakfast, you should get a following if you stick with it (regular posting).
Once you do that, you start getting trolls, and you start to realise that you are not the paragon of free speech you thought you were BECAUSE TROLLS ARE DESTROYING YOUR BLOG!, and you have to get rid of them. Then you write up a FAQ page, decide how to deal with trolling, and cope with all kinds of things you didnt expect to deal with or anticipate.
Anyway, I blog really takes a lot of loving care, and it helps if you actually have some firm opinions on things, and have a certain philosophy for your blogging. Blogging is a relatively new thing, and I find myself increasingly reading blogs, especially because bloggers are not forced to occupy the so called ‘middle ground’ like the MSM, the MSM hardly taking into account the merits of the individual arguments.
Blogs are advertised largely through linking from other blogs. These larger blogs with a good readership will link to you if you write something of interest, and generally a good number of people will click through. If you started a blog, perhaps Marmot could let his readership know that long time commmenter kimbob had started a blog and link to it (although he will not link mine - if you look at the his blog list, it contains virtually every Korea related blog, and mine is conspicuously absent. Alas!).
Mine is quite a successful blog, so taking a look at it may give you some ideas (although you would hardly agree with the content). But getting ideas from a blog is one thing, trying to copy another bloggers style is another. To succeed you will need to develop your own style - trying to be another marmot will not only not work, but you will be one of 20 other bloggers failing to do exactly the same thing.
I hope you found the above helpful. I am looking forward to reading your blog, should you make it.
Ouch. Keep it up, KFTC, no Windows Vista for you.
all major korean montor manufacturers are betting on larger screen development and manufacturing in 16:9 aspect ratio for two main reasons: digital tv (hdtv) and the longhorn/vista operating system. if you talk to any of the chaebols about the next five year development cycles for monitors you’ll find out quickly that vista is one of the most important drivers for their screens.
although it’s seemingly threatening language, MS is pretty adept as using their lawyers for just such situations, and it doesn’t surprise me in the least.
it’s a weird relationship between korea and MS. the wireless innovation center set up here has helped the government a bit in terms of actually putting together a global rd strategic alliance, but we all know that MS is still trying to crack the cell phone OS market.
i think this will probably play out with both parties realizing that they really need each other and a mediation in order to save face.
but then again, i thought that people would abandon hangul97 due to compatibility issues and i still get hwp files once in a while. maybe we’ll see a hangulvista a year after the MS vista release…
What I find interesting is what the KFTC did in regards to an Apple Computer/Samsung deal that was being developed. Apple killed the deal — at a loss of 1.3 billion taxable dollars to Korea — because the chief of the KFTC threatened to investigate the price offered by Samsung to Apple so as to make sure Samsung was not “fixing” the price. I can only wonder about such actions and their wisdom. I would like to read more about these guys if I could find such.
I use a Mac too and do not like MS very much either and for many reasons.
P.S. Nulji, you are simply wrong about Mr. Carr. Why don’t you go outside and find Waldo — you know, the Korea-hater with the striped shirt?
I agree with Nulji. Brendon has not been impartial in his comments. This article again has a tone of accusation. That is typical of his anti-Korean attitude.
Marmot, I do not want to see the extremes(pro- or anti-Koreans) writing at your board. I like to a fair representation of the situation.
In responding to Brendon’s almost racial attack on Koreans, I would like to reply that many Koreans I know still use Win95, Win2000 and WinMe. They are very frugal when it comes to spending money for software.
And, Microsoft is just a corporation which does business in Korea. I do not think all Americans should automatically become spokesmen for this “particular” corporation. Canadiens and the French inclusive.
I don’t know if I like having Mr. Carr as a guest blogger. I’m no Nulji, but do we really want to see Carr become co-opted by the sinister MSM (main-stream marmot)? I come to the Marmot’s Hole for two reasons. The regular news as reported by the rodent and for the comments. Sometimes I wish the Marmot would hang farther out on the limb and drop us some more commentary, but I see that it’s really not his job or what he wants to do. He runs a great site and I don’t want to quibble with him on that. It would be unfortunate, however, to watch the waygook lawyer’s wicked-sweet(anyone from NH?) comments slowly transmute into traditional and objective reporting. He has a talent hammering the likes of Nulji and I’d be sad to see that go.
I’ll give him a chance, and his first outing seems to be a spot on piece, but here’s to hoping we don’t lose this eminent member of our House of Commons to the formal world of Peerage.
I might add that Korean Fair Trade Commission is not doing anything that many states in the US and the EU have not done. KFTC is just following the precedence.
Microsoft Corp has not taken this radical steps to threaten these groups. Why sigle out Koreans?
Maybe too many Brendons and his kind working at Microsoft.
What do you mean by “watch yourself”? That is not suggested in the article.
If Microsoft pulls out of Korea, the company just lose a market and will make less money. The company stock will plummet.
Koreans will adjust and go Apple. Koreans own Apple hardware.
Brendon just like to say it himself, “Watch out Koreans, you will get it”. I think he is a racist.
Well, Uncle Bill himself has spoken. I guess that renders any speculation on this issue moot, eh?
baduk,
until you begin to justify some of your statements, I see no need to respond to them. For example:
“Many anti-Korean attitude stems from racism like Brendon is doing.”
I personally have not once found this to be the case. How do you justify such a generalization?
“His motive is clear. An American company is being attacked and he must protect it. Why this attitude? Because he is an American. Very understandable, yet not right.”
Why not just admit you suspect his motive and ask him about it rather than attribute your own interpretations to his words? My point is that as long as you continue to speak in terms of us vs them, your accusations are simply accusations and not serious commentary.
“You don?t know what you talking about. Racism exists everywhere. I have been in the receiving end many times. I may have dished out a few…And, Did I tell you about a Chinese beaten to death in a bar in Detroit, just because he was a Chinese? Racism is everywhere.”
Are you looking for sympathy or rationalizations? Or, perhaps both? Racism only exists everywhere when it is in the eye of the beholder.
Hey, just follow my reasoning and substitute “Samsung” where you see “Microsoft” and think about if Brendon would take the same position.
If not, why not?
You are not above racism. You are just a banana, “looks yellow outside but white inside”. Just like my mother who takes the side of the Japanese whenever she sees an argument on Korea/Japan, you ALWAYS takes the side of America on Korea/America differences.
Americans have a name for a person like you.
And, I am not speaking in terms of “us vs. them” as you wrongly accuse, I am just damning Brendon’s cheap attempt in bashing Koreans in favor of an American company, using wrong figures and illogical comparisons.
And, I am one of “them”. I am an American.
I guess the Microsoft’s strategy and the bluffing are used to make maximum money in Korea. Why shouldn’t they? The company is in Korea to do just that. The company is, after all, a money-making venture.
What I do not like is a “Rah, Rah boy” like Brendon here to use that to bash Koreans. And, show moral superiority of his kind.
I loathe that.
Baduk - I really think you are hallucinating on this one. There is no “bashing” in the parent post (”… and it looks like a little bit of a threat” is what Carr said… hardly extreme language). Throwing around a serious word like racist is irresponsible and simply wrong. Carr is just raising the issue of piracy in Korea, which has long been and continues to be a serious issue.
To Elgin - The Apple-Samsung “story”, about the cancelled chip plant, appears to have been a non-story. Reuters picked up a second-rate publication’s article and ran it without any fact-checking. Samsung denies any agreement ever existed, saying that preliminary talks with Apple died off early on quite some time ago. I have seen no facts that might back up the original story (such as an announcement of any Apple-Samsung agreement to build a chip factory). This was just a lot of reporters carelessly recycling the same gossip.
Why does he raise that issue in this particular article? The Microsoft is being investigated for possible fraudulent business practices, which the company acknowledged and had paid billions dollars to many states in the US and Europe.
When Korea bring this “legitimate” complaint and ask Bill to pay, suddenly a racist like Brendon bring the piracy issue. A tit for a tat?
Every time a Korean woman gets raped by a U.S. citizen then the US newspapers may allowed to bring Korean prostitutes situation in the US? A tit for a tat?
carr’s no racist!
well, yes he is…
‘he has a talent for hammering people like nulji…’
the only time brenden and i have posted directly too each other happened about a month ago. that’s when he tried to justify black hatred towards koreans. look it up because that showed the REAL breden.
marmot, why not let on bevers on too?
‘his post (above) is not racist!’
well, yes it is…
‘if microsoft pulls out of korea, whose operating system will the koreans pirate?’ brekden
in other words, all koreans steal just like all white guys are child molesters, closet homos, and/or serial killers.
you understand now? why is marmot allowing an open bigot to be a guest blogger on this form?
I knew right away that an extremist like Brendon will not make a good quote. In the heat of accusation, he would twist the facts.
His quotation “Korea..buys..$100 million” is not correct. What MS spokesperson said was “Microsoft Corp. has invested over $1 billion in the Korean market so far and every year, Korean companies buy more than $100 million of our products.”
In other words, the Korean companies alone buys $100 million MS products. This does not include any Korean consumer purchases of windows, offices, words and X-box.
I agree that the total sales were $100 million in 1999. Now it is more, probably a lot more. Korea has recently cleaned up their act regarding piracy.
And, here we have an extremist quoting incorrect figure to diss Koreans. A typical yellow journalism.
And, this trick of bringing up the smud to diffuse any consideration of the merit of the original news is called “a spin”. Brendon used it brilliantly here.
There is a parallel between what the MS person said and what some in this block believes.
“Microsoft Corp. has invested over $1 billion in the Korean market so far and every year, Korean companies buy more than $100 million of our products”
When I first read it, I though MS invested $1 billion to Korea every year. This is a trick. “every year” is in odd spot in the sentence. The word, “more” is funny too. How much more?
Why stick that $1 billion figure before saying $100 million. Brendon may believe “we have done so much for Korea and see what these people do!”
But, Brendon, let’s just examine what “investment” truly is. Is it in dollars? Direct subsidy? The truth is that no MS investors will like to see Bill giving money away for nothing.
My guess is that at least a part of (substantial part of) it was in the form of “surplus MS products” that can not be sold in any other market and collecting dust in warehouse. MS found the good place to unload its “refuse”.
The same is true in the US- Korea relationship. Korea just bought outdated F-15s that Boeing could not sell anywhere else at good price. Many Koreans suggested that Korea buy French fighters or even Russian fighters. But, it was Boeing in the end.
Student radicals insist the US is soaking so much money out of Korea. Some US hotheads like Brendon insist Korea is being heavily subsidized. Who is right? I believe the truth is in the middle.
It’s so easy to throw around the word ‘racist’ that the word has lost the impact it once had. So he’s a racist? So what? Who hasn’t been accused of being a ‘racist’?
To be fair baduk, Microsoft’s total sale in Korea at the end of June 2004, came out to be $220 million, over twice the 1999 sales but still not even one percent of total world sales of Microsoft. It’s mentioned here.
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....80020.html
It seems the problem is with the FTC and their heavy handed tactics that treats business as the enemy. Let’s look at their not so flattering record other than the latest Microsoft probe:
1) 08/15/2005 - FTC investigates HP, Epson, Samsung for price fixing.
2) 08/09/2005 - FTC investigates Intel for their rebate practices.
3) 07/24/2005 - FTC investigates Doosan, Samsung, Hyundai, LG, SK, and 33 chaebols for illegal subsidaries.
4) 07/21/2005 - FTC slaps price controls on Hite and Jinro.
5) 04/29/2005 - FTC sends out harassing questionairs to subscribers of conservative papers of Chosun, Joong Ang, and Dong Ah, asking and scaring the subscribers with questions of did the newspapers do anything to illegally attract their readership.
Virtually no company, foreign or domestic have been left alone by these self righteous bullies. If they keep up their harassments of businesses, it will only quicken the rate of businesses and jobs, moving out of Korea and setting up shop in China where the government is welcoming businesses.
Brendon’s second quote is also under suspect. His articles claims
“Sales generated by the Microsoft Business Solutions (MBS) division — which markets products like Axapta, Navision, Great Plains and CRM software — grew 22 percent in FY05 on the year earlier, Cox said. ?This business could grow substantially more than 20 percent per year,?? he said. Microsoft?s services and tools business in Aust/NZ also grew 17 percent, he said.”
Looks like Microsoft is doing many things in Australia.In Korea with its Hangul writing system, Microsoft products are not easy to adapt. Have your heard MBS division doing anything in Korea?
Comparing apples and oranges and making accusation..Very typical.
Kimbob,
In US, people are suspicious of big businesses and their getting away with breaking laws. Have you heard “antitrust laws”? People want fair business practices where big players are treated equal to small players.
This action against MS started on the behalf of a Korean company that manifactures a media player. I think small fish need to survive in the market as well.
MS quitting Korea will be great for Korea’s tech future.
Korean companies will immediately find a large market with no dominant player. SamSung can come up with an operating system that seamlessly connets to internet through cell phone docking station.
This “phone computer” will be new the product. In fact, the Windows operating system is an obsolete product when the internet is available ubiquitously and one can connect to it anywhere 24/7. Seoul may become ubiqutous soon.
A computer(or a phone) can be just a dumb terminal to connect to the web. Anything and everything will be done in the web in the future. Do you hear footsteps of Google Inc?
Of course, the other player is Linux. Korea has been in coalition with Japan and China to develop Asia’s own operating system. With the population size of 1/4 of all humans on earth, thanks to China, using this Linux operating system, MS will slowly lose its customer base. It may even go bankrupt.
Finally all MS-haters (I am not one) will have their day in the sun.
Korea is the epitome of corporate integrity. I would never imagine that a Korean would allow himself to profit at someone else’s expense.
Baduk may be right that the meaning of “Korean companies buy US$100 million” could be that business-to-business sales account for that figure, and consumer sales some unspecified balance (US$135 million, the balance left over from the IHT story’s figure?).
But Microsoft’s Fiscal Year 2005 gross revenue was US$39.788 billion, according to the company’s 10-K. Let’s compare that gross revenue to the higher figure of US$235 million we’ve seen attributed to Microsoft’s Korea business — my math says Microsoft’s Korea revenue accounts for about six tenths of one percent of the gross.
On a cold cost-benefit analysis, where Microsoft incurs high costs to localize and test its software for the Korean market which uses a unique language marketable nowhere else in the world (Belgium is a small market but at least its language is French; Korea compares more like Greece or Czech Republic), one might ask the question: Does Korea need Microsoft more than Microsoft needs Korea?
baduk,
you really woke up with your panties in a knot this morning, and it seems that you’ve got the axe to grind against carr for some reason. although i agree the microsoft wording is ambiguous, the FTC’s recent witchhunts are definitely not.
it would behoove you to take a deep breath and relax a little before you start your conspiracy theories about guest bloggers being racists.
Baduk bleats:I might add that Korean Fair Trade Commission is not doing anything that many states in the US and the EU have not done. KFTC is just following the precedence.
Microsoft Corp has not taken this radical steps to threaten these groups. Why single out Koreans?
First of all, baduk, ask yourself: What’s different between the United States and European markets, and the Korean market? Why would Microsoft be able to consider even mooting the idea of walking away from the Korean market, when it would not be possible to walk away from the US market (I believe that Microsoft indeed did make exactly the same “threat” about delayed Windows releases to the EU a few years ago)?
My idea is that if you’re only 0.6% of the worldwide revenues of the company, maybe you don’t get to order the company around as much as you might like — especially if you’re completely and utterly dependent on the company’s stuff.
If Microsoft pulls out of Korea, the company just lose a market and will make less money. The company stock will plummet.
Koreans will adjust and go Apple. Koreans own Apple hardware.
Awesome! But where will the pirated copy of Starcraft for Mac come from?
Delusional behaviour
“If the KFTC enters an order requiring Microsoft to remove code or redesign Windows uniquely for the Korean market, it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea unless the remedial order is…
Completely and utterly? Stop kidding yourself.
Koreans with Win95,98,2000 and Me can do without the XP or next generation windows for next 10 years. Meanwhile, Korea will develop a better operating system with Linux.
This type of American haughtiness is what irks Koreans. Why just admit to the fact that if Microsoft exits then Apple, Red Hat(Linux), X-window, IBM(Linux),HP(Linux) will fill the void? What is this nonsense about “completely and utterly”?
You do not know as much about computer operating systems as I do. So, next time get your story (and figures) correct and do not harrass Koreans for some fictional wrongdoings unless you have some solid evidences. Because if you continue this line of argument, then you are a Nazi. Remember the Jews are stealing money from Germany?
Someone wrote that every argument ends up calling each other a racist and a Nazi. I guess I fit the mold.
Awesome! But where will the pirated copy of Starcraft for Mac come from?
Same CD: Blizzard bundles Win Mac apps on the same CD
Have you used a Korean MS Windows? It is slow and error-prone. MS has not spent enough money and manpower to make it work right.
And, Korean MS windows are more expensive than MS windows anywhere else. I guess Bill wants to recoup the investment he made in Korea, but Korean MS Windows and Offices are too expensive. Many Koreans still use Windows95 and 98s. Some use Apple computers.
The correct way to do things is to hire enough Korean programmers to fix the problem. However, MS is too busy announcing new products and new operating system to expand enough resources in Korea to fix the problem.
Baduk is correct about the Korean Windows. But then again why would anyone spend the money and manpower when the market, riddled with piracy, is so small? Not that Microsoft products are that great, secure, and reliable in the first place.
I’ve always wanted to switch to Mac, but I’ve always been leery of what kind of content that I can run on a Mac. The new OS based on Linux will have that same problem - people being leery of what software they can run on. It’s easier to develop an OS, but it’s a whole different ball game developing content.
Microsoft can leave Korea, but that will only further strengthen more pirating without the revenue that Microsoft is getting now. It will also maybe a blessing in diguise for Korea, forcing the country to wean off the Microsoft bandwagon into something better. Korea could be the new test bed where an entire country moves over to a Linux- based OS. If successful, it could be a shining role model for the rest of the world. It will probably and thankfully end the cooperation between Samsung and Microsoft where Samsung PDA’s and cellphones use Microsoft operating system (which I think is a terrible ideal - like I’d love to see my PDA getting infected with viruses).
The only negative for Korea that I see is that it just makes Korea look bad to the world. It reinforces the belief that Korea is a hard place to do business. The amount of loss in foreign investment will be inmeasurable.
korean windows is more expensive because it’s retailed by a korean company that sets the prices for it. it’s my understanding that the price from redmond to the korean distributor is standard. clearly a case of koreans overcharging koreans. is that racist, baduk, or is it just what the market will bear?
as for buggy OSs, MS sucks in any language, and their server technology is worse. hence, their own servers run apache.
Thanks “haisan” for the information about the Apple/Samsung deal. I was wondering about such.
Post #36 is true enough. One major problem all software developers have in the Korean market is bootlegging on a massive scale. Everyone wants but no one wants to pay.
I’ve seen brand-new computers that had bootlegged OS and software installed on it from the people that sold it. I even had bootleg on my Mac, which I promptly erased. Right now, I can not find any Korean word processing software (Word does not count) for the Mac because no one will develop such since there is no money in it and not just because there are few Macs in Korea. The software developer in Korea has to deal with bootlegging, which kills profit and the incentive for developing for the market here or improving what software is here (Windows?).
Perhaps if the government here would really go after bootlegging and the gross ethical indifference many here have towards intellectual property, MS and others would develop more made-for-Korea software. I see absolutely no effort on the part of anyone to fill any the “void” in Korea though I recently found one OSX developer in Kangnam.
Baduk can join Nulji in looking for Waldo outside as well.
Anyone who knows Mr. Carr knows that he speaks highly of Korea with great frequency. He has a long and respectible history in Korea. Just because Korea does many things well does not mean the country is without problems, and IP piracy and the FTC are serious issues here. Accusations by the Grusome Twosome (Baduk and Nulji) are simply ignorant.
Right now, I can not find any Korean word processing software (Word does not count) for the Mac because no one will develop such since there is no money in it and not just because there are few Macs in Korea.
Nisus Writer Express, a Cocoa application, is excellent with handling Korean although the program’s interface is all in English. Besides the interface, all that it lacks is an HWP import filter. Generally its Word filter is pretty good.
Office 2004 for the Mac is a fine piece of software, in my humble and Mac-using opinion. Works great with hangul and all sorts of Asia scripts.
In a weird way, though, piracy has been a great boon to Korea. Because Koreans don’t buy packaged games, gaming companies have had to develop Internet games, where revenues come from time connected or subscriptions instead of the software on your computer. This is evidently the model of the future, as most gaming companies are following Korea’s lead as fast as they can. Same thing with music piracy, which has accelerated Korea’s move toward downloaded and streamed music services.
nulji, about “racism”, read “Blink” and take the “Implicit Association Test”. What you’ll find is that the phenomenon of “white racism” is actually an unconscious tendency to compare oneself unfavorably agianst whites. In other words, “white racism” is not perpetrated by whites - who are usually quite liberal and fair-minded about race - but by non-whites, who are overly sensitive by virtue of unconsciously identifying themselves as inferior to whites. as superior. So instead of slandering this this Brendon fellow, look within for the roots of racism.
Second, “anti-Korean” is not the equivalent of “racist”. We Koreans are seldom reticent about criticizing non-Koreans but we bristle at the criticism of others. Face it, there is much here to criticize, and until we learn to accept criticism of non-Koreans without becoming defensive and showering our critics with curses and accusations of unfairness, it is we who are the racists, not them.
Haisan,
Give me some example of Mr. Carr speaking highly of Korea (with great frequency?). If you cannot, you may be an altered ego of Mr. Carr himself.
KFTC is doing the right thing in standing up for Korean people’s rights. Mr.Carr countered it by bringing in piracy issue, which to me is an attempt to diffuse the original issue.
He can bring up the piracy issue in some other post but attaching it right after the story and using illogical comparison make me think that he is biased.
I don’t like anti-Korean illogic just as much as pro-Korean illogic.
mizar5,
You don’t know what you talking about. Racism exists everywhere. I have been in the receiving end many times. I may have dished out a few.
Why do you think Brendon is so hyped about defending Microsoft? Do you think he would apply the same ferver if Samsung Corp. is in Microsoft’s shoes? (Some Chinese phone companies have copied Samsung design.) Not at all.
And, Did I tell you about a Chinese beaten to death in a bar in Detroit, just because he was a Chinese? Racism is everywhere.
Mizar5,
Many anti-Korean attitude stems from racism like Brendon is doing. When he realizes that Microsoft corp is in “weak position”, he immediately counters it by blaming Korean counterfeiters as if that alleviates Microsoft’s sins. ( I do not think giving the media player is a big sin, however. I have benefitted from it.)
His motive is clear. An American company is being attacked and he must protect it. Why this attitude? Because he is an American. Very understandable, yet not right.
Not right.
Baduk - That is a much better post. I still think you are wrong, but at least you clearly stated your case without slandering anyone.
The point of Carr’s post was not the merits of the FTC investigation of Microsoft, but Microsoft’s “little bit of a threat” to pull out of Korea if they really disliked the terms of business here. The piracy connection was made in a partial answer to the question “Would MS pull out of Korea?” Seems logical enough to me.
As for Mr. Carr and Korea, I have talked to him several times, so I know first hand how he feels. Plus he is frequently quoted in Western news sources about Korean news, especially legal and IP stories.
OK,haisan. I will take your word for Mr. Carr. And, I did miss the connection of why he started to talk about the software piracy. I would have been much happier if he concentrated on why Microsoft was accused and what MS’s next move might be.
His title was inflammatory as well.
Oranckay - Do we blog readers need to pass the collection plate to keep you on the Web? Because we probably would.
Anyhow, I do believe the MIC has been trying to wean Koreans off of using pure Microsoft standards for a while now, encouraging the use of more open standards. Like a lot of countries, though, lazy Web programmers tend to use Microsoft shortcuts instead of using “proper”, open-platform HTML.
(Apologies to any computer-literate folk out there if my jargon is off, but I think you know what I mean).
baduk,
i was being serious when i said you woke up with your panties in a knot today. you need to relax a bit and take a second look at carr’s post. i just can’t understand why you think he’s trying to protect an american company from the KFTC investigation.
“just the facts ma’am.”
Racism is a part of every human being. It comes from “herd instinct” which is a fundamental human psychology building block. Unless somebody is from outer space, he has a pre-formed opinions about a group of people, like you favor “white people”.
Americans are only 65% white(including Indian half breeds) right now. There are 15% black Americans and about 20% Hispanic Americans. And, about 1 to 2 percent Asian Americans. Within 20 years, white Ameicans will be less than the sum of non-white Americans.
Americans today are diverse group as well. Republicans and Democrates. The rich and the poor. More outlandish racists like skull heads and new Alyan nation are Americans as well. The Southerners are more of ignorant racists, while Easterners are learned racists. In general, Westerners are less of racists.
I am an American citizen and I will fight for the US interests. Do you know some KoreanAmericans died in 9/11 attack and KA soldiers in Iraq are dying for America as we speak?
I do not necessarily support Brendon’s ideas of Americans supporting American companies in Korea. Some big businesses are stealing from Americans as well as Koreans. This is exactly how Americans are called “Yankees”(unfair salesmen=thieves). KFTC only wants 5% of revenue (5% of 220 mil=10 mil). A chicken feed. MS is just sore about losing the case against the Real Network.
Meanwhile, Brendon’s kind uses the chance to trash Koreans. Just substitute “Samsung” for “Microsoft” and think about it yourself.
I’d like to say it’s great to see Brendon here. I respect Marmot’s right to blog about what interests him, so having a respectable chap like Brendon cover business issues fills a void. I hope this continues.
The KFTC seems to be getting a bit big for its britches. The market here is simply not nearly as big as the EU, so Uncle Bill doesn’t have to bend over backwards for it. I’m no huge fan of Microsoft but them playing hardball would certainly do a lot of companies a favor. This government is sending out anti-business and anti-wealth (anti-property, anyway) signals loud and clear. The question is how much damage will happen before sanity returns in two years (as a foreign investor I have to be optimistic the next administration will be pro-business).
the most wired country in the world
In %, not in numbers, by any stretch of imagination.
judge judy,
Obviously you did not read my comments. Too busy repeating your limp joke about my pants? I have never said “Brendon is trying to protect MS from KFTC”. I just didn’t like his tune of justifying that MS can get back at Koreans for illegally copying Windows.
I did not see his logic at first. It was too much like some yellow journalism I once read that brought up Korean prostitutes problem in the States when a prostitute was killed by a G.I. in Korea. Instead of writing about the incident, the newspaper diffuse the hideous crime by talking about a general problem in the US. I guess to some racists that makes perfect sense.
After the race riot in L.A., many journalists tried to pin the riot on Korean/Black relationship instead of correcting the white/black problem. Blacks were mad at white cops getting freed after senselessly beating a black. However, many racist journalists tried to put a spin to the story. They insisted Blacks burned Korean stores because Black people hated Korean shop owners. The truth was that they were mad at “white” ruling class and willing to destroy anything they can find. Things got much better after the riot.
mizar5,
Do you know it was only fifty years ago that the US discriminate people based on skin color? Black people could not go to the white-only restaurant. They could not use white bathrooms.
You will feel like this white person who got kicked out of Japanese bath for being a non-Japanese.
One day, a black lady, who is a Christian, just refused to give up the seat to a white person. She got pushed off from the bus and arrested.
Black people got angry and refused to ride the bus. They marched to Washington. Rev. King said ” I have a dream…where people will not judged by skin color…”. Things got better.
However, racism is still rampant in American society. Yellow journalism, like Brendon’s here, still sells papers. A possible black presidential candidate refused to run fearing the possibilty of assassination.
Racism is everywhere.
blacks and koreans in urban US do not get along well at all, and there is a lot of hatred between the two for a multitude of reasons. blacks and jews also have a similar distrust and hatred between them for some of the same and some different reasons. i know this first hand having lived in richmond, california and new york city. korean shopowners in the LA riots took the brunt of both the white/black race wars as well as pent up hatred for korean shopowners.
baduk,
my point is that i think you went overboard on your interpretation of carr’s point and were more interested in name calling and trying to make analogies that aren’t clearly and don’t seem relevant.
Overboard, maybe.
1) He quoted a wrong figure, $100 million instead of $230 million.
2) He made an illogical comparison, between Korea and Australia.
3) He went on to say “Koreans are stealing money from MS, and thus from America”.
I have been reading Carr’s writing almost 6 months now. He NEVER wrote anything good about Koreans. He was always on the side of Americans, sometimes even to being illogical.
I like to be fair and logical. If a Korean used the tone that Brendon took about SamSung getting slapped with $1 billion fine on “price fixing” by the US government, you would automatically call that Korean overboard.
Racism is everywhere.
So, after this massive subterfuge of Baduk’s, I would still ask: Does MS want to really pull out of Korea and is the KFTC position really a reasonable position to argue?
P.S. I started using MarinerWrite and it handles Hangul quite well but sometimes bombs on Korean RTF files. Office for OSX is quite mediocre and disappointing. I’m hoping it will improve but . . .
thnking about using marinerwrite. i also don’t enjoy us MS on the mac too much. how long have you been using it?
Go Han-Linux! (or whatever…)
i think brenden is a racist because that’s what he is. that’s got nothing to do with how i veiw myself. i assume breden is white, but he could be black for all i know. his race is not germaine here; his comments justifying black hatred towards koreans are. go and read the comments yourself. don’t remember where they were exactly but about two months ago on a thread with many posts. oh, i remember, it dealt with katrina and korea’s response to it. the hateful comments he made on that thread demonstrate the real breden car.
‘he’s says nice things about koreans.’
that’s why i was all the more shocked reading his comments.
***
well judy, you’re ready to slam koreans at the drop of a hat, but when it comes to others slamming korea, you’re fair and balanced. does your chin touch the ground?
***
‘i might blog..’ kimbob
and i will certainly be there. i don’t care how you feel about me, kimbob; i like you
and that goes for you too, vc.
***
‘baduk…’
baduk not so nutty afterall. he’s just ecclectic.
Elgin, what don’t you like about Office for OSX? I think it works great… almost never crashes, does all I want and more. Certainly every review I have said calls it much better that MS Office for Windows. I guess graphics on Excel be a pain, but I don’t use those much, so I don’t really notice.
I?d like to say it?s great to see Brendon here. I respect Marmot?s right to blog about what interests him, so having a respectable chap like Brendon cover business issues fills a void. I hope this continues.
The early returns are not great. Sixty-some-odd comments and looks like half of them are about how rascally ol’ Brendon is or is not a racist sumbitch instead of the actual topic. Let’s assume for the sake of argument that I am, in fact, demonstrably a racist sumbitch. So what? Does that discovery make any dent in the issue at hand? Which is — let me remind folks who may have forgotten — that according to its S.E.C. filing Microsoft may be at a decision point as to whether the Korean market is “worth it” or not.
For guys like baduk, who seem to believe that the sun rises and sets around Korea (and that any criticism not uttered by them is racially-driven), the answer is “Obviously.” But a harder analysis of the problem would have to take into account the minuscule level of revenue derived from the Korean market. And that requires one to consider why the level of revenue is so surprisingly low (i.e. piracy, and the government’s determination to do nothing about piracy so long as it’s foreign companies being harmed).
It’s not just Microsoft. Anyone whose business is the sale of packaged software as a product and not as a service (i.e., Electronic Arts, Atari, Adobe, Quark, probably Autodesk but I don’t really know) has a tremendous problem with the level of consumer piracy here. And it’s not just these guys, it’s the enterprise software vendors too (they usually get ripped off by their distributors who sell “demo” keys to Korean customers, which is an easier problem of fraud). As a foreign lawyer in private practice, I have heard the stories from foreign software vendors so many times I know the words and music by heart.
Racism is a part of every human being. It comes from ?herd instinct?? which is a fundamental human psychology building block. Unless somebody is from outer space, he has a pre-formed opinions about a group of people, like you favor ?white people??.
No, baduk, racism is not a fundamental human trait. The fundamental human trait of reason causes them to rise above instict. And I do not favor “white people” any more than you do. In fact, the demonstrated anger you feel towards them suggests the opposite - that you indeed feel inferior to them. Take the Implicit Association Test for yourself: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/
Your “banana” insult doesn’t intimidate me. I wear your “banana” as a badge of honor. I understand that the skin color is merely surface appearance, and that my true substance is white, which is not a color at all but all colors combined. I am therefore much too rich and multifaceted to get fixated on color. This is why I am indeed above racism, contrary to your assertion.
“However, racism is still rampant in American” society.
No, baduk, race is no longer an overiding issue in America. Americans of all backgrounds rose up against racism en masse and now racism is NO LONGER RAMPANT in American society. Have you heard of the “Freedom Riders”? The “Underground Express”? America made greater strides in integration of peoples of disparate backgrounds than any other nation.
Yet, a small minority of insecure people want to keep race an issue. That’s because these small-hearted people use race to excuse their insecurities. It is easier for them to curse others than to improve themselves and eisier to blame society than accept responsibility for themselves. They pull the white racism card whenever someone disagrees with them, even against successful people like me.
There is nothing Brendon has written here than can credibly be attributed to racism. You mention a a “tone of accusation” and throw around other innuendos and misquotes, but the bottom line is that you disapprove of a perspective on the story that runs contrary to the knee-jerk anti-American rhetoric the Korean media routinely publish.
His comparisons with Australia are not illogical but well taken. Korea needs MS more than MS needs Korea. And MS has indeed said “watch yourself” in response. Why? because it feels that it is in a position of advantage, which is what the article portrays.
Stop reading racial issues into this. Strawman arguments only dilute your on-topic arguments - I have seen just one of these - that a small player needs protection. Let’s hear more about this small player. And about how this player can promote himself without resorting to overt protectionism.
Today in the afternoon I had the occasion to visit the Apple Experience Center in the COEX Mall. They had a very surprising piece of software on offer: Quark XPress 6.5K. For those who don’t recall, Quark XPress version 4.1K (from 2001) was the last Korean-language version on offer, and Korea didn’t get a 5.0 release at all. Some of the folks at Quark with whom I’ve discussed the issue have darkly joked about their distributor Incube Tech (who some of us may remember as a villain from its other incarnation as Elex Computer) selling just one copy of Quark 4.1K here.
Anyway, if Incube Tech has taken on the job of localizing the product, we can get some insight into how much more expensive it may be to localize and support software for Korea than for other markets: The Apple Experience Center has new licenses of XPress 6.5K for the bargain price of just W2,500,000, but the English-language Quark XPress 6.5 is only US$945 list price (introductory priced at US$699). If you buy the 2001 Quark XPress 4.1K product it’s a bargain at “just” W2,000,000.
In some sense, it looks like the software vendors are driven by Korea’s rampant and unchecked piracy problem to the million-dollar glass of lemonade (”I just have to sell one!”) approach. Wouldn’t the few suckers who do purchase software legally here be better served by the lower prices which would come from effective enforcement of laws?
Another problem with Quark updates is that most Korean publishers are still using OS9 and old machines (I’ve seen newspapers still using G3s in the design department). MS is made very backwards compatible (which creates huge problems, in security and elsewhere), while Apple is much less so. Apple has had huge problems trying to get publishers to modernize their machines, and therefore modernizing their software. Which I believe is part of the reason it was nearly giving away the OSX Panther update.
But overcharging for perceived upmarket brands is a strange problem in Korea. To choose a much more important example, Guiness beer is much more expensive here than it is in Japan. I was told the local distributor was going to be changed to someone who did not overcharge so much, but I don’t know what happened.
Not that there’s a Guiness piracy problem that I am aware of…
Anyhow, less than a year ago, I had one of the government offices in charge of IP protection tell me that they did not think there was a piracy problem in Korea, and the pirated stuff available at Yongsan is no different than the guys selling things out of the backs of vans in New York City.
Haisan, take a look at some of the reviews to get a small ideal of what problems there are. Word is bloated and has been slow, thus I switched to MarinerWrite. I find that RTF files often are mangled when imported from other version of Word in Windows into Word on the Mac. Excel is still good for me though:
MS Office 2004 reviews
Judge, I’ve used MarinerWrite for about a year and it works well but Hangul RTF files can cause bombs on occasion. I often have to take ascii files instead and clean them up to clear out the characters that do not map in Mac-land.
I’m also not suprised that Quark is selling at 2,000 bucks here. Those Quark guys are real *jerks* and have alienated so many users into using Adobe Indesign back in the states and in Europe. I don’t think many use Indesign here because the image bureaus are not really set up to handle the output very well. There is *plenty* of bootleg Quark 3.31K in circulation right now and is the tool of choice, still.
I would love to see a more robust investment in Linux for Korea or just OSX, which is so superior to Windows that I could only wave goodbye to MS over here.
“Anyhow, less than a year ago, I had one of the government offices in charge of IP protection tell me that they did not think there was a piracy problem in Korea, and the pirated stuff available at Yongsan is no different than the guys selling things out of the backs of vans in New York City.”
Yeah, Mr. ROKGOV official, there’s no difference between openly selling pirated software from a storefront and hawking it surreptiously out of a van momentarily parked in the street. Long Live the NE Asian Hub! BTW, how are the efforts to enforce Korean IP rights in China going?
Haisan wrote:
“To choose a much more important example, Guiness beer is much more expensive here than it is in Japan.”
Important only if you like Guiness. A much more important question to me would be what the price of good imported lager is.
Baduk,
Most of the time I?m onboard with your comment, but this time it seems to me you?re going a bit overboard with the racist accusations. Of course I haven?t been following Carr?s other posts (haven?t even heard of him to be honest), so can?t speak to the alleged preponderance of writings, but this post is just?? true.
You can?t really argue that Korea isn?t a piracy Mecca (that?s not saying other places ? like China ? aren?t? worse, just that Korea is really, really bad in this dept). This summer at Yongsan market I could see DVDs for every movie in theaters, besides all the bootleg CDs. I?m not sure I know anyone, aside from one brother-in-law, in Korea with a *legal* copy of Windows.
Sure Korean Windows costs more, but this could be due to the fact that it has to be re-worked for a foreign language, or even to Korean taxation (that?s an educated guess, based on the fact that the vast majority of Korean electronics products can be purchased for far less outside Korea than inside due to taxation from within).
As far as the $100 million dollar statement in the post ? it was right out of a Korea Herald article, so I don?t see how that is somehow a point to be used against him.
Finally, I thinks the whole topic is a non-news item. MS may delay the into of Longhorn in Korea if the Korean govt puts up some roadblocks, but it will get there. MS is like any other company in that the smell the money.
Happy Halloween.
What I did not like was the logic behind Brendon’s thinking. That since IP is not respected in Korea so Korean anti-trust(or fair trading) laws needs not to be obeyed.
This is a fine attitude for a foreigner to have in Korea.
The problem is that you guys are trying to enforce American law (IP) in Korea. Just imagine you are a Japanese in the South in 1950s. He would get on the bus but then he would be told to go sit a “colored ” section. He could complain but that was the law in the south.
The first step is the first step of AA meeting. First, admit you are a racist(” Hello, my name is Brendon Carr and I am a racist. I was told from my childhood that Asians are inferior race. They like to cheat, steal and disobey the law.”)…That’s where we should all start.
For your edification,
ARTIST: Rodgers and Hammerstein
TITLE: You’ve Got to Be Carefully Taught
Lyrics and Chords
[South Pacific]
[ G = ; C#dim7 = ]
You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear
You’ve got to be taught from year to year
It’s got to be drummed in your dear little ear
You’ve got to be carefully taught
/ G - D9 - / / / G Am7 G - /
You’ve got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made
And people whose skin is a different shade
You’ve got to be carefully taught
You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late
Before you are six or seven or eight
To hate all the people your relatives hate
You’ve got to be carefully taught
You’ve got to be carefully taught
It is a similar situation where a G.I. gets arrested in Incheon airport for possession of a marijuana. Then Korean reporter named Ga Bosic writes about the rampant drug problem in the US and editorializes the story into another anti-American campaign.
He even suggest that Koreans make an example out of this soldiers to “punish” those evil druggies.
Any American reading this story will be outraged. Just one story and yet he brings in entire damnation of America and use it to his purpose of anti-Americanism.
He can write facts. Like over 80% Americans tried Marijuana one time or other and some 30% of Americans use it regularly. All facts. Yet, you will be outraged. Because of his tone of damnation of American culture.
read the friggin’ post, or take your lithium. one or the other you haven’t done.
I worked at a university for a few years. Every year the university would be checked by someone about what software ALL computers (including ones in professors? offices) had running on them to make sure there was no pirated copies. It was suppose to be a surprise check but every year they knew exactly when it was going to happen and made sure to take off the pirated copies a week before they ever came. I’m sure Microsoft would love to know about stuff like this.
Yeah, I still don’t see the facts as making him a racist. I’ve been called that enough times that I wonder if people even know what it means. Let’s put out the definition just for clarity;
1.) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2.) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
One can go as far as saying/believing that Korea’s (or East Asia’s, or whatever) social/cultural systems generally contribute to piracy and IP theft, and still not get into the realm of racism. One could say everything in Korea sucks (and be wrong), and blame it on the culture rather than the race, and not be a “racist.” I think that word is far, far overused and misused.
Blaming it on culture or social intuitions does NOT imply racism. Very specific events in the East/West shaped what happed (plagues, wars, inventions, rulers, weather, etc.), creating different paths, and different systems. You can take individuals from any Eastern/Western civilization, let them grow up in the other, and they will be like anyone else from the society they grew up in. For culture/society type issues, it?s environment not DNA that matters.
On the facts; the stats you list of locoweed are a bit on the high side. Also the population stats are somewhat off (Caucasian 69%, Asian 4%, Black 12%, Latino 14%, etc.).
And for the record, I like a lot of things about Korea, and I dislike a lot of things about it as well. I’ve had far more positive experiences than run-ins with pan-mi freaks, enjoy many Korean products, defended Korean positions, hell, I even majored in Korean Studies. And while I also think the down-on-Korea-all-the-time posters get old, it just does not have to be racism.
Baduk, I’m writing this for your benefit because you appear to lag the rest of the world in terms of racial awareness.
Your numerous misunderstandings about how Americans perceive race point to a personal problem.
For instance, nobody in America was told from childhood that Asians are an inferior race, as you assert. That’s absurd. Second, why assume Americans would be outraged at a “tone of damnation of American culture”? Don’t you see that you are attributing your own cultural sensitivity to others, just as you are attributing your own racism to others.
Oh, the Rogers and Hammerstein song was cute. That it was written by Americans shows how well they have overcome the issue of race that you are still struggling with. I wish you would apply its lessons to yourself and find peace. You are an indignation junkie. You savor your sense of racial inferiority and wear it on your sleeve as a badge of honor. I’ll have no part with it. I have never associated with crybabies who still live in the past. You crave racism, so you see it wherever you look.
Now, back to the issue at hand. Bredon is not calling for a violation of Korean law as a retaliation against Koreans’ violations of intellectual property rights. This is another strawman argument.
First of all piracy is wrong, period. This is not a matter of trying to enforce American law on Korea, but a matter of getting Korea to play fair,
And second, the KFTC is investigating whether theinclusion of streaming media, IM or Windows Media Services as optional components of Windows Server violates the Korean Fair Trade Law. The jury is still out so hold your misplaced idignation in check. The KFTC can make the right decision or a stupid decision, and MS will act accordingly. It’s all about business, and has nothing to do with racism, imperialism or international conspiracy.
Mizar5,
“nobody in America was told from childhood that Asians are an inferior race, as you assert” ..Nobody? Wuhahaha..
“the Rogers and Hammerstein song was cute. That it was written by Americans shows how well they have overcome the issue of race that you are still struggling with.”
It was written by Jewish Americans who saw their share of Racism. “Have overcome”? I doubt it. Especially when you guys still defending Brendon