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	<title>Comments on: Hillary slams S. Korea&#8217;s &#8216;historical amnesia&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: usinkorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/#comment-24970</link>
		<dc:creator>usinkorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2096#comment-24970</guid>
		<description>"Personally, I don?€™t think the ?€œhistorical amnesia?€? is quite as important as the refusal on the part of some in the United States to realize that as South Korea grows and becomes less dependent on its Cold War patron, it may begin defining its national interests in ways than don?€™t necessarily coincide with Washington?€™s."

Well, if you................ahhhh.......what's the point?.....

For the past couple of weeks, I've been half-way out the door with Korea-related items and voicing opinion on the internet altogether, and this might finally get me to shut it.

There is no hope in turning the tide in Korea's thinking.  It is too deep and too supported by pillars of the community
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Personally, I don?€™t think the ?€œhistorical amnesia?€? is quite as important as the refusal on the part of some in the United States to realize that as South Korea grows and becomes less dependent on its Cold War patron, it may begin defining its national interests in ways than don?€™t necessarily coincide with Washington?€™s.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, if you&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.ahhhh&#8230;&#8230;.what&#8217;s the point?&#8230;..</p>
<p>For the past couple of weeks, I&#8217;ve been half-way out the door with Korea-related items and voicing opinion on the internet altogether, and this might finally get me to shut it.</p>
<p>There is no hope in turning the tide in Korea&#8217;s thinking.  It is too deep and too supported by pillars of the community</p>
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		<title>By: Gwangjupig</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/#comment-24969</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwangjupig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2096#comment-24969</guid>
		<description>It's about time that American politicians draw the line and speak their mind. In my 10 years of experience in Korea, I have found that many times the Koreans are looking to Americans(or whoever it is they are dealing with)for what is appropiate behavior. If left to their own device, Koreans will go for the juggler, as they do with eachother in traffic, or in lines at the bank or at bus terminals(or any other point of onslaught). Because of the hierarchical nature of Korean history, the general population of Koreans are so used to being told what to do that when given the freedom of choice, their sense of protocol is under developed and will go at whatever it is they desire like a catholic virgin in heat. If you are on the receiving end of this phenomenon, then a little guidance is neccesary. For example, in my classes because I give the students latitude to make many of their own choices(pretty normal from where I come), students will pull anything and everything all the time. When I calm them down and point out that it's not appropriate behavior and that if they tried this kind of behavior with their Korean teachers, what do you think would happen? they usually feel terrible and start apologizing and realigning their approach. In a democracy as young as this and for a people so used to all or nothing, a little schooling from their brothers and sisters is useful.  Thank you Hillary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s about time that American politicians draw the line and speak their mind. In my 10 years of experience in Korea, I have found that many times the Koreans are looking to Americans(or whoever it is they are dealing with)for what is appropiate behavior. If left to their own device, Koreans will go for the juggler, as they do with eachother in traffic, or in lines at the bank or at bus terminals(or any other point of onslaught). Because of the hierarchical nature of Korean history, the general population of Koreans are so used to being told what to do that when given the freedom of choice, their sense of protocol is under developed and will go at whatever it is they desire like a catholic virgin in heat. If you are on the receiving end of this phenomenon, then a little guidance is neccesary. For example, in my classes because I give the students latitude to make many of their own choices(pretty normal from where I come), students will pull anything and everything all the time. When I calm them down and point out that it&#8217;s not appropriate behavior and that if they tried this kind of behavior with their Korean teachers, what do you think would happen? they usually feel terrible and start apologizing and realigning their approach. In a democracy as young as this and for a people so used to all or nothing, a little schooling from their brothers and sisters is useful.  Thank you Hillary.</p>
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		<title>By: oranckay</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/#comment-24968</link>
		<dc:creator>oranckay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2096#comment-24968</guid>
		<description>WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ IS NOT A SCIENTIFIC SURVEY:

However, in have met a quite a few internationals who wish Koreans would remember all the wonderful things the US has done for them in the past but wish they wouldn't dwell on all the bad things done to them by the Japanese and the dictatorships.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ IS NOT A SCIENTIFIC SURVEY:</p>
<p>However, in have met a quite a few internationals who wish Koreans would remember all the wonderful things the US has done for them in the past but wish they wouldn&#8217;t dwell on all the bad things done to them by the Japanese and the dictatorships.</p>
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		<title>By: The Marmot</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/#comment-24967</link>
		<dc:creator>The Marmot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2096#comment-24967</guid>
		<description>I'm not characterizing the nonsense spouted by some on the radical South Korean left as a "redefinition of Korea's national interests."  And if anyone thinks I am encouraging the United States to continue to offer its protective services to South Korea while Seoul undermines U.S. foreign policy initiatives in the region, let me state categorically that I believe U.S. ground forces should be withdrawn and the alliance redefined to reflect the changes in the interests/capabilities of the parties involved.

That having been said, the decision whether to stick a fork in the alliance, so to speak, needs to be made with a cool-headed realism, not because so-and-so said a statue of such-and-such should be pulled down or because Korean college kids say stupid things about the United States.  Yes, Sen. Clinton is right when she says many South Koreans suffer from "historical amnesia," but that's neither here nor there.  You don't make foreign policy decisions based on your partner's interpretation of the history of the bilateral relationship.  You make them based on what's in your national interests.  Yes, anti-Americanism in Korea annoys me.  But frankly, Koreans could be in the street waving American flags and whistling "God Bless America" out their assholes and I'd still be calling for U.S. troops to come home.  What gets me about Sen. Clinton's statement is she says the alliance is in trouble, but then she goes and cites "historical amnesia" on the part of Koreans.  I'm sorry, but rather than talk about all the great things the U.S. has done for Korea in the past (great arguments for why the alliance WAS necessary, emphasis on the past tense), she needs to explain -- both to Koreans and the U.S. public -- why the U.S. alliance is so crucial to both parties in the here and NOW.  Telling the Korean public it should play along with U.S. policy initiatives vis-a-vis China, for instance, because Washington saved South Korea during the Korean War and played an instrumental role in its socio-economic development is just not going to fly anymore.  And to be honest, I have no idea how the U.S. public accepts Washington subsidizing South Korea's defense when Seoul is more than capable of defending itself and the nation's geopolitical importance is not what it was during the Cold War.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not characterizing the nonsense spouted by some on the radical South Korean left as a &#8220;redefinition of Korea&#8217;s national interests.&#8221;  And if anyone thinks I am encouraging the United States to continue to offer its protective services to South Korea while Seoul undermines U.S. foreign policy initiatives in the region, let me state categorically that I believe U.S. ground forces should be withdrawn and the alliance redefined to reflect the changes in the interests/capabilities of the parties involved.</p>
<p>That having been said, the decision whether to stick a fork in the alliance, so to speak, needs to be made with a cool-headed realism, not because so-and-so said a statue of such-and-such should be pulled down or because Korean college kids say stupid things about the United States.  Yes, Sen. Clinton is right when she says many South Koreans suffer from &#8220;historical amnesia,&#8221; but that&#8217;s neither here nor there.  You don&#8217;t make foreign policy decisions based on your partner&#8217;s interpretation of the history of the bilateral relationship.  You make them based on what&#8217;s in your national interests.  Yes, anti-Americanism in Korea annoys me.  But frankly, Koreans could be in the street waving American flags and whistling &#8220;God Bless America&#8221; out their assholes and I&#8217;d still be calling for U.S. troops to come home.  What gets me about Sen. Clinton&#8217;s statement is she says the alliance is in trouble, but then she goes and cites &#8220;historical amnesia&#8221; on the part of Koreans.  I&#8217;m sorry, but rather than talk about all the great things the U.S. has done for Korea in the past (great arguments for why the alliance WAS necessary, emphasis on the past tense), she needs to explain &#8212; both to Koreans and the U.S. public &#8212; why the U.S. alliance is so crucial to both parties in the here and NOW.  Telling the Korean public it should play along with U.S. policy initiatives vis-a-vis China, for instance, because Washington saved South Korea during the Korean War and played an instrumental role in its socio-economic development is just not going to fly anymore.  And to be honest, I have no idea how the U.S. public accepts Washington subsidizing South Korea&#8217;s defense when Seoul is more than capable of defending itself and the nation&#8217;s geopolitical importance is not what it was during the Cold War.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/#comment-24966</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2096#comment-24966</guid>
		<description>Gillian, I respect your authentic Korean experiences while teaching in a provincial high school, but I beg to differ that Korean high school textbooks teach that the US started the Korean War.  I have right in front of me a 2005 high school Korean history textbook.  On page 351, it describes very clearly how Kim Il-Sung set up a government in the north and then made provisions for war before launching an attack on June 25, 1950 to bring the south under the authority of the north's Communist party.  In this section, there is very little information about American participation; rather, the text focuses on the role of former president Rhee Syngman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gillian, I respect your authentic Korean experiences while teaching in a provincial high school, but I beg to differ that Korean high school textbooks teach that the US started the Korean War.  I have right in front of me a 2005 high school Korean history textbook.  On page 351, it describes very clearly how Kim Il-Sung set up a government in the north and then made provisions for war before launching an attack on June 25, 1950 to bring the south under the authority of the north&#8217;s Communist party.  In this section, there is very little information about American participation; rather, the text focuses on the role of former president Rhee Syngman.</p>
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		<title>By: kimbob</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/#comment-24965</link>
		<dc:creator>kimbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2096#comment-24965</guid>
		<description>And all this isn't helped by the fact that about 60% of all vegetables consumed by Korea comes from China. There is no such thing as a "Korean kimchi". If the cabbage didn't come from China, the garlic, the chillie powder, or the some of the other 20 ingredients that's needed to form the batch of kimchi would have come from China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And all this isn&#8217;t helped by the fact that about 60% of all vegetables consumed by Korea comes from China. There is no such thing as a &#8220;Korean kimchi&#8221;. If the cabbage didn&#8217;t come from China, the garlic, the chillie powder, or the some of the other 20 ingredients that&#8217;s needed to form the batch of kimchi would have come from China.</p>
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		<title>By: kimbob</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/#comment-24964</link>
		<dc:creator>kimbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2096#comment-24964</guid>
		<description>"Korea?€™s tactic of correcting trade imbalances by scaring Koreans away from Chinese fish and kimchi."


This part is wrong I believe. There really is a crisis with food labeling, food safety and food inspection in S. Korea where the entire system is about to collapse due to woefully underfunded and undermanned government department. That's why one day they come up with a study that says one thing, but then next day they say the completely different thing - a sign of disarray and confusion that spreads and exasperates consumer doubt and fear. There was even a sudden death of one overworked civil worker handling the food crisis - he litterally dropped dead from exhaustion.   

China itself is well known to extremely dangerous levels of poor food safety beyond just problems with food hygene .  Babies have died because of fake milk formulas.  People have died drinking fake alcohol. People have died from eating poisoned dumplings. SARS and bird flu (all directly related to livestock and meat hygene) came from China but the Chinese government kept them hushed up until it spread beyond control.  And  It's not some cheap tactic to trade barrier. 

I'm just repeating what the Korean media is saying with the following. 
The only reason why countries like Japan and the US don't have these kinds of problems with Chinese food imports is that these countries have very stringent food inspection, handling, quality, and safety requirements. Korea, on the other hand, do not. Not only that, Korean greed makes Korean food importers to do business only with Chinese suppliers who only look for cheapest of the cheapest Chinese products - damned the quality and damned the safety.  Plus, Japanese and Americans have strict guidelines that Chinese firms must abide by. There are no such guidelines that Korea has given to Chinese firms. The outcome is the predictable and the inevitable.


.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Korea?€™s tactic of correcting trade imbalances by scaring Koreans away from Chinese fish and kimchi.&#8221;</p>
<p>This part is wrong I believe. There really is a crisis with food labeling, food safety and food inspection in S. Korea where the entire system is about to collapse due to woefully underfunded and undermanned government department. That&#8217;s why one day they come up with a study that says one thing, but then next day they say the completely different thing - a sign of disarray and confusion that spreads and exasperates consumer doubt and fear. There was even a sudden death of one overworked civil worker handling the food crisis - he litterally dropped dead from exhaustion.   </p>
<p>China itself is well known to extremely dangerous levels of poor food safety beyond just problems with food hygene .  Babies have died because of fake milk formulas.  People have died drinking fake alcohol. People have died from eating poisoned dumplings. SARS and bird flu (all directly related to livestock and meat hygene) came from China but the Chinese government kept them hushed up until it spread beyond control.  And  It&#8217;s not some cheap tactic to trade barrier. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m just repeating what the Korean media is saying with the following.<br />
The only reason why countries like Japan and the US don&#8217;t have these kinds of problems with Chinese food imports is that these countries have very stringent food inspection, handling, quality, and safety requirements. Korea, on the other hand, do not. Not only that, Korean greed makes Korean food importers to do business only with Chinese suppliers who only look for cheapest of the cheapest Chinese products - damned the quality and damned the safety.  Plus, Japanese and Americans have strict guidelines that Chinese firms must abide by. There are no such guidelines that Korea has given to Chinese firms. The outcome is the predictable and the inevitable.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul H.</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/#comment-24963</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2096#comment-24963</guid>
		<description>Baduk, in #6: "...And, when the push comes to shove, I will take arms against Koreans. So, don?€™t worry....It is not logical to assume that I am an automatic trator because I love Korea as well as America."

That's the last thing I would ever assume, Baduk.  I'm just trying to point out that it's the ROK that has a problem, not the US (IMHO of course).  For myself I'm not at all anxious for the US to take up arms against any Koreans north or south (I find it interesting that you didn't distinguish in the quote above between North and South, or between "commies" and "anti-communists").  

Since your mention of Providence has got me in a Biblical mood, perhaps this quote is more to the point: 

"Forsake not an old friend; for the new is not comparable to him: a new friend is as new wine; when it is old, thou shalt drink it with pleasure."
Ecclesiasticus 9:10

The question today for the voters of the ROK: 
between the US and the DPRK,  who is the old friend  who is the new?  Quite a dilemma all right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baduk, in #6: &#8220;&#8230;And, when the push comes to shove, I will take arms against Koreans. So, don?€™t worry&#8230;.It is not logical to assume that I am an automatic trator because I love Korea as well as America.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the last thing I would ever assume, Baduk.  I&#8217;m just trying to point out that it&#8217;s the ROK that has a problem, not the US (IMHO of course).  For myself I&#8217;m not at all anxious for the US to take up arms against any Koreans north or south (I find it interesting that you didn&#8217;t distinguish in the quote above between North and South, or between &#8220;commies&#8221; and &#8220;anti-communists&#8221;).  </p>
<p>Since your mention of Providence has got me in a Biblical mood, perhaps this quote is more to the point: </p>
<p>&#8220;Forsake not an old friend; for the new is not comparable to him: a new friend is as new wine; when it is old, thou shalt drink it with pleasure.&#8221;<br />
Ecclesiasticus 9:10</p>
<p>The question today for the voters of the ROK:<br />
between the US and the DPRK,  who is the old friend  who is the new?  Quite a dilemma all right.</p>
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		<title>By: dogbert</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/#comment-24962</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2096#comment-24962</guid>
		<description>The Marmot knows who pays the bills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Marmot knows who pays the bills.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/26/hillary-slams-s-koreas-historical-amnesia/#comment-24961</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2096#comment-24961</guid>
		<description>Personally, I don?€™t think the ?€œhistorical amnesia?€? is quite as important as the refusal on the part of some in the United States to realize that as South Korea grows and becomes less dependent on its Cold War patron, it may begin defining its national interests in ways than don?€™t necessarily coincide with Washington?€™s.

True enough. But then South Korea ought not to cavil about the United States taking a cold look at the United States' national interests. Which, I might add, don't include Korea except for the reason "just because Korea has always been a national interest of the United States." There's no there, there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I don?€™t think the ?€œhistorical amnesia?€? is quite as important as the refusal on the part of some in the United States to realize that as South Korea grows and becomes less dependent on its Cold War patron, it may begin defining its national interests in ways than don?€™t necessarily coincide with Washington?€™s.</p>
<p>True enough. But then South Korea ought not to cavil about the United States taking a cold look at the United States&#8217; national interests. Which, I might add, don&#8217;t include Korea except for the reason &#8220;just because Korea has always been a national interest of the United States.&#8221; There&#8217;s no there, there.</p>
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