It would have been nice if comments made by Dongguk University professor Kang Jeong-koo, who should have been consigned to the dustbin of political irrelevancy long ago, were simply ignored. Instead, we’ve got the prosecutor-general resigning, partisan bickering, tension between Cheong Wa Dae and the Justice Ministry on one hand and the nation’s prosecutors on the other, more idiotic remarks made by another Dongguk University academic, to be followed up by even more idiotic remarks by GNP chairwoman Park Geun-hye, who like Prof. Kang should have been consigned to political irrelevancy long ago, but unlike Prof. Kang is actually dangerous owing to her position as head of the nation’s largest opposition party.
Perhaps the best indicator that Kang has already won is the fact that for the last couple of days, when I’ve listened to the news in morning, his name comes up in the top stories. All because he made comments so absurd that you’d have to be mentally handicapped or a Korean university student to actually take them seriously.
Oh, and Prof. Kang’s eldest son reportedly attended a U.S. law school and works for a U.S. law firm, while his second son served with the KATUSA. Go figure.
57 Comments
Rowan,
Korea is not Canada. Korea has its enemy right next door. NK with China’s backing will attack Korea as soon as the US withdraws from the peninsula. Koreans cannot be lack-a-daisical about defense.
Prof. Kang and other Commies ride anti-American wave which is basically xenophobia. They are generating a lie that the US actually harmed Korea than helped her.
Well, if they really believe what they say, then they should move to NK. Aha, but they don’t. Because they themselves know they are wrong.
But, it is so fashionable to say “Koreans should kick all foreigners out of Korea”. Well, as soon as the US leaves the peninsula, NK with China’s backing will trounce SK military and kill all young people who follow liars prof. Kang and believe that “North Koreans will never hurt them”.
It is a real and probable threat!
Hankyoreh interview with Kang was quite interesting especially in regard to his sons. In it he managed to sound actually quite reasonable - it was a “challenge interview” in which he was taken to task to some degree - saying for example that in case there hadn’t been any US or Soviet intervention, the leftist Yeo Un-hyeong would’ve formed the government.
As far as his son’s service in KATUSA is concerned, he has the traditional Korean explanation: not me but my wife. His wife thought that the younger son, introvert in nature, wouldn’t do well in the ordinary military and insisted that he be sent to KATUSA. “Won’t happen” said Mr Kang, but “in the end I couldn’t turn my wife’s head” (?²°?? ?§????? ?³??§??? ?ΊΎ?§ ?ͺ??????€). Next he admits that US forces in Korea is not an occupation army, but obstructs peace and unification. “From that point, I’m ashamed of that thing of my younger son.”
Ok, if Kang managed to sound reasonable at times in the interview, I only need to browse through some of his texts in Dailyseop (list of his columns) to remind me that he’s actually quite a vile character. He is also in possession of some astonishing information, as he knows that ROK has sent more spies to DPRK than vice versa. From that article we see what kind of man Kang is: It is true that fishers, who easily cross the demarcation line and violate the Northern territory, are kept there against their will, but they can’t be seen as having been kidnapped to the North.
Antti, thank you for that previous comment!!
Very interest links. Hankyoreh interview really does make him seem very reasonable. Don’t have time to look through the DailySeop, but good to know the resources.
Also, I thought it was curious how come he didn’t just say, “My son did it against my wishes.” I think it’s sad, because he represents one of the better educated man with a “broader” life experience than an average Korean of his age, and yet he still seem to exhibit some typical Korean patriarchical patterns…
No, I disagree. This has been long time coming and finally the conservatives like me have the Commies cornered.
First, nailing Prof. Kang himself is interesting. This hypocrate enjoys all the benefits that SK offers. Yet he teaches his students that Kim IlSung did nothing wrong.
Rather, he insists that the US and the general McArthur interfered in Korean internal affair and prevented two Koreas from uniting. What a birdbrained assho he is! If the US had not interfered, he would be starving to death in one of the concentration camps for being born in the South.
Secondly, some other Commies took the bait and told the police not to carry out the Korean Security law. Justice Minister Chun told the prosecutor general to go easy(do not arrest Kang) on him. Now this is great. For a long time, these guys insisted that they are not Commies. Well, what other proof does one need? Those who protect a Commie are Commies themselves.
Their true color is once again showing. And, it is a great chance to re-take the country from these Commies. Park GunHye is jumping at the chance and rightfully bashing this administration.
It is great. All conter-Commie forces will unite and hit this Commie administration hard. Very hard. The end of these student “Commie” activists are near!
baduk makes me hard
I disagree that everyone should just ignore this guy. Clearly, he has been taking orders from North Korea. If you remain silent, you have the danger of legitmitizing him. But then again, a jail time will probably make a martyr out of him, and all the left wing wackos will be strengthened. It’s one of those damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. What can the government do without making itself look like going back to the military dictatorship era?
i’m with marmot, korea had the opportunity to show its social, and political maturity by just letting this guy say what he liked and give him no particular attention. what they have done however has turned the whole issue into a huge deal. people make comments like this all the time in other countries, and nobdy ever knows, or cares, but here in korea it goes to show how easily some stupid comments can make you headline news.
Dr. Kang’s wife is living proof that most of the time, only adjuma have *any* common sense in Korea and must do what their men have no wisdom to do.
I do not hear the man’s sons defending him either. I’m sure most Koreans feel sorry for them having such a father.
i think they should try to brainwash the bastard. there are techniques for this sort of thing. usually the staunchest mouthpieces are the easiest to reprogram.
i have to disagree baduk. i don’t think NK will attack as that would spell the certain end. If they did however attack, perhaps due to reaching the point of having nothing to lose, then i doubt if anything that kang or anyone else has said would make any difference. i don’t think comments like kangs will influence NK’s decision to attack either way.
The National Security Law is an embarrassment. No self-respecting democracy can lock people up just for spouting Communist propaganda.
The point is simple. Since everybody seems to agree that Korean politicians are a bunch of morons, why would you want to give these politicians the power to decide who is allowed to express their opinions on politics?
Good post, Marmot. What we have here is essentially another instance of solipsistic xenophoebic dynamic that created the the candlelight “vigils” two years ago.
Once again, the media and the civic groups are in the business of making martyrs of misguided and self-destructive anti-foreignism. Again, tolerence for hate trumps law and civil order. And here again we see Roh enabling the spread of disinformaticontagion by working to dismantle of the mechanisms of civil society.
I’m not talking about the National Security Law, either, but civil law. Slander and willful misrepresentation by a university professor is a legal issue, and it is the proper duty of Roh to see that Kang’s case goes before a court of Civil Law.
Two years ago, the candlelight vigils were clearly illegal but nobody in either party raised a finger to defend the nation that defended their nation and won them the right of free speech - even though that would have been the ethically proper thing to do. The case against the US, then, as now, was without a shred of merit, and still a newswoman was fired for commenting that the breakdown of civil order was “a shame.” Anti foreign hate crimes went unpunished and unreported or misrepresented.
What we have in Korea is a nation of frustrated people with firey tempers always ready to explode into an orgy of anger and hate. To make matters worse, we also have the insidious forces of anarchy stoking the flames.
The National Security Law may be outdated here, but apparently so is reasonable and fair debate based on fair and proper reporting of the facts.
By all means, bring the Law down. But don’t also forget to bring down the purveyors of willful slander and civil disorder.
The National Security Law is an embarrassment. No self-respecting democracy can lock people up just for spouting Communist propaganda.
Name one self-respecting democracy that borders a country like North Korea. Name one self-respecting democracy that’s subjected to constant subversion from infilterators and sympathizers from a hostile nation that’s determined to destroy ‘democracy’. Name one democracy that is inexperienced and unprepared to protect its way of life, like South Korea is. Name one democracy that is still technically at war with its immediate neighbor. Name one democracy where its capital is only 35 miles away from enemy artillary, thus facing obvilion.
South Korea is a very special case because of its circumstances. It’s not a strong enough democracy nor does it have the rule of law that is necessary for democracy to be able to fend for itself. We all wish Korea can be lucky enough to be in a same geopolitical position as Canada is in. But it ain’t.
I hate the US, but I let my son go there to study and work with their army because my wife insists on it? Yeah right. If you really believe that then my name is Kim Sam Soon.
The real reason is that he hates the US, but he has no shame milking the last dime out of the country for his own benefit. Unfortunately this is an all too common thing to do in South Korea.
Amen brother. I saw all together too much of this in my two years working with KATUSA’s, and it’s certainly not limited to their parents. If you’re a soldier who’s spent a little bit of time in Korea, just look to those protests outside the gates of our camps and you might see a few familiar faces.
BTW I never saw this confirmed in writing by anyone, only by word of mouth, but was one of the kids arrested for tossing a molotov cocktail into Red Cloud a former KATUSA? I’d like to know whether that’s true or not…
Rowan,
When the US pulled out of Nam, the VietNamese military ranked the fourth in the world in terms of fire power. The country also had the guarantee that if, the North would attack them, four civilized countries(the US, Britain, Canada, ?) would come and help VietNam to defend the country.
What followed was the internal implosion. Many so-called civic leaders spoke out against the US and the corrupt VietNamese government. They used the same logic that Prof.Kang is teaching to youngsters, “VietNam is being used by other countries”. These civic leaders were later found to be in Cong’s payroll as I suspect Prof. Kang is.
VietNam imploded. There were many uprisings. The state of lawlessness was created. When the Cong finally attacked, there were no VietNamese military. Nobody was defending the country. The country just collapsed.
No help came from those countries that promised either. They just said, “we would not help the country that would not defend itself”. Why do you think they pulled out in the first place?
Korea may repeat this sad history of VietNam.
VietNam imploded. There were many uprisings. The state of lawlessness was created. When the Cong finally attacked, there were no VietNamese military. Nobody was defending the country. The country just collapsed… Korea may repeat this sad history of VietNam.
You know, Baduk, I passed by Dongguk University the other day.
Nobody in black pajamas shot at me.
In other words, I’m not really sure if the Vietnam comparison is really appropriate in this case.
There are enough red-bloodied Koreans and KoreanAmericans to bash these Commies skulls in. We will not stop till all Commies(xenophobic isolationists who follow Mao’s economy of poverty) disappear from Korea.
We, the true patriots, will make Korea a strong and prosperous country. We will defend her against Kim Jongil and the Chinese aggressors.
Prof. Kang and his kind should be blotted out from Korean soil. They dirty the land.
Not sure about that Marmot. Sure, there’s no shooting war. But as in Vietnam, S.Korea is thoroughly ideologically infiltrated. There’s now a large (and growing) population in S.Korea that is willing to work for North Korea and kick out the Americans.
NK with China?s backing will attack Korea as soon as the US withdraws from the peninsula. Koreans cannot be lack-a-daisical about defense.
Baduk,
Lay off the China conspiracy theories. China is very happy with the status quo, a divided Korea, and has no interest in seeing the two Koreas reunify under any government. China cannot even grab Taiwan across the straits.
In fact, I think the US should leave the peninsula and Japan while they’re at it. North Korea is not going to attack. They might bluster and harass to shake down their southern brothers for food and oil, but they are not going to invade. The major players in the Korean conflict are very different today than they were in 1950.
North Korea is not going to attack.
They don’t have to. All they have to do is sit back and watch as S.Korea gets confused, throw out the Americans, and join the alliance block of N.Korea and China. A silent but an effective invasion.
and wouldn?t support NK when it came down to the crunch.
That is not how the outsiders, including congressmen in the States, are seeing. Korean government behaved wantonly recently, shuning the US and favoring KJI.
Do you know the whole country can be highjacked? When the NK attack, if pres. Rho tells the military to stand still, then the military will stand still.
This is why the pro-North government like this one is so dangerous. Pres. Sungman Rhee did not prepare for Korean war and when the North attacked, he fled. Korean Army collapsed. When South Koreans implode, it would be a easy win for the North.
SK must be ready (to fight) all the time. The present government loves KJI too much to do that. They must be kicked out.
i still can’t see it happening. the world, and particuarly korea is a very different place now to 50 years ago. with regard to the outsiders, to be honest, i think a lot of americans don’t have a clue whats happening in the rest of the world, including congressmen. that being said i don’t think its a bad thing that the US knows about the US-bashing that happens here.
Baduk, so i translated more-or-less the whole thing, so you can take a step back and see what the Korean kids will see. That above interview really does make Junggoo look like a “moderate”. Obviously there are holes and problems with what he is saying, which has been discussed like zillion and one times, but he doesn’t come out of the interview like “dangerous person.”
Marmot is absolutely right, this is score one for jungoo. the typical korean kids no longer read Jo-Joong-Dong. They read Hani, Pressian, OhMy. The Hani article makes Junggoo look like just someone with a different set of views and the Korean Police a bunch of fascist “*”. This only reinforces teh idea that korean conservatives are fascists–even though the korean progressives also have fascistic tendencies. In anycase, if Korena Police really wanted to promote their agenda, they should just say that they are in league with Uridang. It’s as if Korean Police have a standardized tests and only accept members of the Korean population with IQ of 80 or lower.
VW, all I can say is after reading that interview, he’s no moderate. He definitely is smoking North Korean crack, pretending to be a psuedo intellectual. What a nut case. All I can say for now is I’ll have to concur and ask the same question that one of the commentators made in that site:
??Έ????΄ ?·Έ???² ????????€??? ?????΄ ??΄?????? ??Έ???°?? ????????³? ???????€?????? ??Έ?? ?????Ή?§ ????€????
Well Mr. Kang? Can you answer that question?
Kimbob, I agree with your political views concerning him. But after reading that interview, do you come out thinking, “we need to use the NSA and take care of this dangerous man.” But more importantly what do you think the Korean public will think?
In his book “The Scariest Place in the World — A Marine Returns to North Korea”, the author James Brady relates a hearsay account about what happened to the ROK legislature, a couple of days after the NorK invasion had started (25 June 1950).
(Note: the account is on page 106. Don’t have a copy handy, skimmed it recently in a bookstore. The book didn’t strike me as worth buying, for one thing it’s not really about North Korea (he never “returns” there). See customer reviews on Amazon, negative ones are on point IMHO. BTW, this JB is not the former Reagan Press Secretary who was shot in the assasination attempt on Reagan in 1981, but a former US Marine officer who fought in the Korean War and has been an author-journalist since).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ.....155s=books
According to Brady’s account, President Rhee had left Seoul in a train with his Austrian wife and the national gold reserve, leaving behind his military with orders to fight. Evidently scorning Rhee’s particular course of action, the legislators remained behind in Seoul but not to fight; they stayed in the legislature building, hoping to open negotiations with representatives from the North, to end the war quickly and effect a national reconciliation type of government.
However, upon arrival at the legislature building (does the 1950 one still exist?), the Communist troops, presumably acting on orders from the NorK Communist party commissars, promptly marched the legislators outside and shot them all.
I’d be interested in knowing more details (from those of you resident in the ROK and who follow the history of politics there more closely). So far, I have only this mentioned-in-passing account from a rather sardonic old ex-US marine.
For example, how many legislators, what were their names and personal political histories, is there a plaque in the current ROK legislature commemorating their memory or have they simply been forgotten as a bunch of “losers”, etc etc.
If no plaque, maybe at least the current Unification Ministry could be troubled to have an annual ceremony commemorating their memory. Also, does the good professor Kang happen to mention this particular episode in his class lectures? Perhaps he could find a few minutes to sandwich something in, between his fulminations about Taft-Katsura and MacArthur.
My point is that one imagines that this time of thing (so little known and remembered now?) was what produced the “hard-core” mentality behind the various right-wing ROK periods of military rule through the 80’s (of which I gather the NSL is a remnant?)
While I am as disapproving as anyone else here of Baduk’s tendency to foam at the mouth about the “Commies”, and his skull-cracking and bomb-throwing proposals, a remembrance of this type of incident would be useful in understanding “where he is coming from”.
All this talk of “Commie” infiltration makes me nostalgic for the Cold War.
South Vietnam collapsed in large part because it was the kind of brutal dictatorship promoted by baduk. It had no support among its own people. In fact, I don’t know of any examples of a country that wasn’t in a desperate situation being taken over by Communists. All that Communist propaganda is only dangerous when the people are scared and hungry,
Democracy and freedom make South Korea much stronger than South Vietnam ever was. North Korean infiltration and espionage were only effective when South Korea was a dictatorship. Given North Korea’s sorry state today and the strength of South Korea, this fear of infiltrators is just paranoid. Communist mouthpieces may be obnoxious, but you can’t lock them up just for their political views.
By the way, don’t you think corrupt politicians are a much greater danger to South Korea? At the very least, all those freeway lanes that turned into Swiss bank accounts would be useful in moving troops, wouldn’t they?
So, I’d say that the National Security Law must be repealed. Let all the Communists talk themselves silly. They’ll be totally forgotten in a few years anyways.
So, I?d say that the National Security Law must be repealed. Let all the Communists talk themselves silly. They?ll be totally forgotten in a few years anyways.
I agree completely.
don?t you think corrupt politicians are a much greater danger to South Korea?
You’re correct there, but most of the big corrupt politicians don’t pocket that much into their own bank account. If you look at the biggest corruption cases, most of the illegal money is used for illegal election campaign funds. But that’s besides the point. We’re not talking about corrupt politicians, are we?
Kimbob, I agree with your political views concerning him. But after reading that interview, do you come out thinking, ?we need to use the NSA and take care of this dangerous man.??
Yes I do. Look at the US, it bans its citizens from contact with Cuba. Its democracy is not actually in danger of being breached.
Paul H:
Yes, the 1950s National Assembly still exists. It’s on Taepyeongno (the main north-south road between the statue of Yi Sun-Sin, Namdaemun, and Seoul Station), across the street from Seoul City Hall, if I recall correctly. I think it’s now used for municipal offices or something. It has a tall rectangular tower. There’s a plaque in front. Before it served as the National Assembly, it was a theatre.
The original name of the building is the Kyngsng Bumin’gwan (?Ί?????Ίζ°?€¨; “Seoul Citizen’s Theatre”).
Here’s a short article on it (in Korean) and photos:
http://tour.junggu.seoul.kr/info/photo_41.php
A much better period photo and slightly longer article (also in Korean):
http://blog.naver.com/italy311/60016169521
You might find information in Korean on the incident you described here, in Naver (http://search.naver.com/search.....0%FCfrm=t1)….
Paul,
It was not only the politicians but policemen and military officers and THEIR FAMILIES. These Commies went house-to-house hunting all people on the list. They were worse than Nazis hunting Jews.
How can the people who just shared the same heritage turn this way? Communism had made people to be animals. A totalitarian rule that says “any who oppose must die”!
To counter this, an Anti-Communist like myself has to be just as vicious and ruthless. I must eliminate pro-Commies like Prof. Kang before too late. Many in Korea share this urgency.
g_travan,
Koreans are not as sophisticated as you think. This is why Rho wanted to destroy three Korean newspapers. If he had succeeded in this endeavor, he would have all Korean media under his control. He could have spread his pro-North propaganda at will. He would have censured anti-Communists from colleges, government, commerce and media while praising the likes of Kang who are anti-American and pro-North(pro-Chinese). Young people follow what is printed. He could have brainwashed a whole generation like the North has done.
God protected Korea. God did not allow these students radicals from handing Korea over to KJI. On the contrary, anti-Communists are gaining strength. Hannara party is so overwhelmingly popular because people figured out what Rho and his pro-North politicians are doing. The Uri party will disappear soon. It will be named “the most ridiculous administration”. These jokers were busy sending money to KJI so that he can buy more weapons against the South. After next election, Korea will do 180 degree turn around.
…I tried searching in Naver for “?Ά??Ό?΄ 1950″ (without the quotes), but couldn’t really fish out a relevant site without browsing through pages of Korean….
I do recall on the plaque, however, that it’s mentioned that the building was used for public executions while Seoul was occupied by the North; don’t recall if it specifically mentions the incident with the legislators.
What is now ????Έ ??Ή?³??? (Seoul Special City) was at the time of the building’s construction ?²½??±?Ά, Kyngsng being the Korean name for Seoul (Japanese Keijo) under the Japanese; -?Ά (-pu/bu) was the administrative designation for large cities.
It’s one of those largely overlooked historical sites nowadays…not as sexy as royal palaces or statues of famous generals….
Okay, just in case anyone even more pedantic than I should call me on this, I should point out that ?²½??±?Ά??Ό?΄ should be romanized “Kyngsng Pumin’gwan” with a “P,” but is derived from “Kyngsngbu” with a “b.” …That’s all for now….
Thanks, Curious, some good poop. I asked about the building because I gather that much of Seoul was destroyed during the recapture of the city (Sept 1950), and then during the Chinese capture of the city and its subsequent retaking for the last time by the UN forces (Spring 1951).
I’ll have to seek out and take a look in some English language histories of Korea. I can’t read Korean and at this point in life am not going to learn. Here is some supporting evidence, though, from the official US military history, at
http://www.army.mil/cmh/books/.....1/Sn03.htm:
“…During the evening [of 26 June 1950] the Korean Government decided to move from Seoul to Taejon. Members of the South Korean National Assembly, however, after debate decided to remain in Seoul….”
The military history does not go into the specifics of their fate after capture but I suppose it doesn’t take much imagination. Also, see the last sentence in the further quote just below.
The chapter cited is interesting as it gives credit to some of the ROK
Army resistance to the Communists, until the debacle of the premature blowing of the Han River Bridges. The chapter focuses mainly on this episode, in the military-history typical detail that can be mind-numbing to many but is gripping to those of us who have an active imagination and some military experience.
Another quote:
“….The premature blowing of the bridges (approx 0215 on 23 June 1950) was a military catastrophe for the ROK Army. The main part of the army, still north of the river, lost nearly all its transport, most of its supplies, and many of its heavy weapons. Most of the troops that arrived south of the Han waded the river or crossed in small boats and rafts in disorganized groups. The disintegration of the ROK Army now set in with alarming speed.
ROK troops held the North Koreans at the edge of Seoul throughout the night of 27-28 June, and the North Koreans have given them credit for putting up a stubborn resistance. During the morning of the 28th, the North Korean attack forced the disorganized ROK defenders to withdraw, whereupon street fighting started in the city. Only small ROK units were still there. These delayed the entry of the N.K. 3d Division into the center of Seoul until early afternoon. The 16th Regiment of the N.K. 4th Division entered the city about mid-afternoon. One group of ROK soldiers in company strength dug in on South Mountain within the city and held out all day, but finally they reportedly were killed to the last man. At least a few North Korean tanks were destroyed or disabled in street fighting in Seoul. One captured North Korean tanker later told of seeing two knocked-out tanks in Seoul when he entered. The two North Korean divisions completed the occupation of Seoul during the afternoon. Within the city an active fifth column met the North Korean troops and helped them round up remaining ROK troops, police, and South Korean government officials who had not escaped…”
So this is some good history for you, Professor Kang (if you’re out there reading the Marmot, a recommended exercise).
The best punishment for the Professor, Baduk, following a conviction under the NSL, would not be “skull-cracking”, but his being required to go on ROK television and read some of this history — perhaps as narration for a documentary.
About the eldest son, here’s a link to the Martindale-Hubbell listings for all lawyers named Kang.
The best punishment for the Professor, Baduk, following a conviction under the NSL, would not be ?skull-cracking??, but his being required to go on ROK television and read some of this history ? perhaps as narration for a documentary.
Instead of a jail, how about grant his wish and deport him to North Korea?
Just for laughs, view this video. Jesus. What ignorance.
http://www.wimp.com/invading/
While I disagree with g-traven’s reading of Vietnamese history, I agree with his premise that free speech much be tolerated if Korea is to be a democracy. The national security law should apply to specific acts that undermine the security of the nation, and not someone’s stated personal or professinal opinion. Were the Good Prof engaged in collecting photographs of key facilities to be targeted by NorK forces, or storing up munitions, rations, or other goods for use by infiltrated NorK forces, then he should be hauled off to jail. Merely parroting NorK propaganda, however, should be treated as a free speech issue. The real issue here is why any university would continue to employ a professor (in anything but theology or philosophy) who cannot back up his statements with clear and convincing evidence from original or respected sources that the facts as stated are true. Otherwise, he should be canned.
Rowan,
You are wrong. Look at Rho and his buddies. They are praising Kim Jongil and calling the US the occupation forces and the roadblock for Korean unification.
Do you think these people can tell their mouth from their..?
Korean people are not strong as you may think. When the NK attacks tomorrow, many young jerks will tell SK soldiers not to fight but to welcome their northern breathren with open arms. Koreans are finally uniting, as they would announce.
F**king idiots like Kang is telling young people that the US is the enemy. And, young people who do not know any better follow these Commies.
Korea can become a Communist nation, even without NK attack. When these Commies spread enough lies, poor people will take to the streets. Don’t think it cannot happen. It happened again and again in poor countries or countries with severe gap between the rich and the poor. Korea has the same problem.
Rich forks in Korea have to share more with the poor to prevent this eventual outcome. I am not condoning Korean filthy rich either. They have been getting fat from military dictatorship in Korea.
However, these Commie loonies are even worse than those filthy rich pigs. These jerkoffs hate the rich so much that they are planning to give the whole country to KJI.
Talk about f**king asshos.
Rho and his Commie buddies have been saying in the past that they are not Commies. People were not sure that they were.
However, this prof. Kang thing clearly defined where they stood. In the side of Commies. Pro-North and KJI side.
How can they ask to bend the law to protect a Commie? Ask the attorney general to bend the law! To protect a Commie!
Only Commies will go this far, to protect a Commie. People found out now that they were Commies all along.
They true colors are exposed and they cannot claim that they are not Commies any longer. As Prof. KimDongGil wrote today, these are grasshoppers that gnawing at the foundation of the Republic of Korea.
They must go.
Baduk,
i think you are underestimating the undrstanding of the younger korean generation. They know deep down that NK is poor and aren’t willing to reunite, particuarly under a Nk system. They complain about the US, and blame everything bad that has ever happened to korea on either the US or Japan, but they don’t really mean it i don’t think.
Although they call the US the main opposition to unification, thats just some political propaganda to gain some points. To be honest i don’t think many koreans realy want unification anymore. only the old people. the young people don’t consider Nk to be the same country really, and/or they don’t want to have to pay for the cost of reunification. if a war ever broke out, the young people here would either run away to another country, or they couldn’t manage that they’d fight.
korea needs to just let people like kang go and eventually everyone will stop paying attention, and he will just be considered some radical left wing academic.
don’t get me wrong, i’d love to see the end of NK as much as the next person, but i don’t think that will happen through military means and people like kang don’t really effect things.
i think its worth asking what people mean by “democracy”, its been used a lot in this thread, but, democracy itself means very little, as its essentially just majority rule. its the ideology that its based on thats important.
Most western countries are based on a liberal democracy, where freedom (liberty) is one of the main tenets, so by banning anyone that doesn’t share the political beliefs of the majority, are we any better than those we ban?
I could let Kang go if this administration was not what it is, a blatantly pro-North and pro-KJI. These loonies hate Korean military and the US so much so that they would rather follow KJI.
As you wrote, democracy is just a majority rule. Then, who is the majority right now in Korea? All TV stations just follow the government line. They will not say anything against Pres. Rho or Pres. Kim DaeJoong, the Sunshine boy. People are just following the government.
These Commies are telling the whole country to shun the US and move toward NK and China. Is this what young people want? That the US to depart from Korea, so that Korea can become a Chinese satellite?
Korea is moving toward that direction. It is half way there. The true intellectuals and the true patriots must re-take this country and radically shift the direction.
Toward pro-American, pro-world, anti-North Korea and anti-Chinese direction. To survive.
As you wrote, democracy is just a majority rule. Then, who is the majority right now in Korea? All TV stations just follow the government line. They will not say anything against Pres. Rho or Pres. Kim DaeJoong, the Sunshine boy. People are just following the government.
Depends whether you see the chicken or the egg coming first, meaning do the policies reflect or affect the popular opinion. I think the current administration are largely capitalising in koreas inferiority complex, and fear/envy of foreignors, by using populist politics to create anti-americanism for political purposes. This could easily (and incredibly quickly) change to anti-china-ism when its convenient. There will be a few people who are changed by people like kang, and president No, but for the most part the ppl here in the south know where their interests lie, and wouldn’t support NK when it came down to the crunch.
Baduk… to continue my previous sword analogy to NSA, swatting a mosquito with a sword.
I actually agree with the elitist idea that Korean populatoin is easily swayed and that some top down approach should be used–I’m projectin myself on them, but I’m gullible, so I assume so will they.
But you haven’t answered any charges that perhaps using NSA to prosecute is a self-defeating tactic. Your rationale simply seems to be “he is dangerous, we must remove him by any means, any cost.” I’m trying to tell you that the cost is really really really high. That there may be better ways to go about this.
It’s one thing if doing so is for a short term goal trading off long term ones… But in this case, what did Korean Police accomplish? They accomplished zero and made the entire Korean conservative platform bad—and when I say the entire platform, we have to include things like NK refugee issue. Did they seriously think they’d have people’s support? I thought this was a serious political miscalculation.
At the rate these things are going, we are going to see another Uri administration after Roh—remember Uri went into office not so much for their stellar past, but because of Hannara incompetence.
It might be exciting to see Ms. Park as president if anything other than the fact that she is a woman and this in of itself would be going towards poltical maturity. But that won’t happen if her so-called allies keep shooter her in the foot.
i don’t think that the taiwan issue is really that appropriate to the korean situation. not many countries even recognise taiwan as an independent country, and even since that time china has come a long way. the further they come the more they have to lose. i think that they may well intervene if NK was attacked, but they wouldn’t support a NKorean attack.
your point to VW, i have to disagree with too. just shutting people up is not the way to go. you have to show why they are wrong, give a counter arguemnt.
Baduk,
the difference now from 50 years ago:
the cold war has ended,
the USSR has broken up and russia has turned to the market system,
China has joined the world economy,
Sk has developed greatly,
NK has become poorer than ever,
The only neighbour that hasn’t really changed in a way that would affect the situation is japan. i’m sure there are many more but thos ealone change the dynamics so much that i can’t see a NK attack happening, and if it did certainly not being successful.
Rowan,
China joined the world economy. However, that did not stop it from openly attacking Taiwan. You remember about seven years ago, China sent troops ships to Taiwan. The US Navy stopped the attack by blocking them.
When the US pull out, NK and China will attack together. SK military may(this is a big may) take care of NK but, when they see Chinese army, the white flag goes up. And, SK will be serving KJI from that day on.
virtual wonderer,
If one does not stop likes of Kang, more Commies will start talking. And, some innocent schoolboys may believe these fools.
The Uri party will be gone soon. It was fun to contact NK about four years ago, but KJI has been nothing but a gadfly who sucks up money from SKs. Nobody like extortion.
The US airpower/seapower analogy (between Taiwan 1996 and ROK today) is an appropriate analogy though (between the two situations).
If (when?) US ground forces are gone, it will be a clarifying moment. US can support from offshore against the DPRK threat. With US ground forces gone, they will be removed as a convenient scapegoat in ROK domestic politics. It can’t come a moment too soon.
US airpower is immensely more accurate and powerful than it was in 1950. It’ll be up to the ROK administration whether they want to call it in or not.
Baduk, I donno… The damage has already been done, and the schoolboys already believe him. At this point we can do two things: minimize damage and engage in the healing process. People associate Korean Police with Hannara, and I think they screwed up. But I feel like broken tape recorder so i’ll stop.
Rowan, I’m not sure where our views differ…
I haven’t read the comments, so if somebody scooped me on this, I didn’t see it…
I’m working on a long post, but I am getting a strong feeling the anti-US civic leaders, with possibly some direction from Pyongyang, have played all this masterfully.
I couldn’t make sense of the promotion of the 9/11 protest and then the low turn out of even the core members.
Now, after watching the last few weeks, I think the professor coming out like he has works hand in hand with what we saw before and after the 9/11 protests.
I thought the groups might have made a big mistake by attracting the international press and driving Korean society’s anti-US activity by average Koreans into a period of turtle mode, but now I think they played everything right.
They have set up the interntional coverage and took the heat from the average Koreans, because they knew they were going to bury the violent Pyongtaek protests that have been going on for the last several months as well as the violent protests at Inchon, and they were going to highlight the nutty professor — who can say the same stuff, get as much rise out of conservative Korean society and possibly some in the press — but who can be easily dismissed as a wackjob — and even more easily defended outside of inside but more so outside Korean society for academic freedom.
The whole violence leading up to the 9/11 protest and that day
Paul H. Calling in Air Power will also be up to the Administration of the period. The U.S. was obligated by agreement to provide air support to the Republic of Vietnam in April 1975, but the Ford Administration opted not to do so. To be fair to Ford, no one had ever directly elected him President, and he knew the divisivness a decision to send in the Air Force could have triggered just a few years after Kent State, itself a reaction to the invasion of the Cambodian sanctuaries. Korea could find itself in the same situation if some ultranationalist government took a series of public positions against the U.S. that eroded public support for assisting Korea in any conflict with the north.
An interesting analogy but a future war won’t happen in a diplomatic vacuum. If a future ultranationalist ROK government wants to take such “public positions”, then a future US government can warn them formally that the US may decide to withdraw from its obligations under the Mutual Defense Treaty.
(Marmot linked to the formal text of the MDT a while back I failed to bookmark it, or the bookmark is lost in an endless sea somewhere on my computer. I need to go back and review it for myself, but I presume the language allows for both sides to be able to withdraw after appropriate notice is given).
IMO the US has “hyperinflated” the currency of a formal alliance with us by giving the world the impression that we are willing to do anything and everything. This has been a long time coming, but I think one key event in this development of this attitude post-Cold War was the sudden announced commitment by Bush 41 in early Aug 1990 that “this will not stand” (ref Iraqi invasion of Kuwait).
If I’m not mistaken, we had no formal alliance with Kuwait (a traditional ally of UK, prior to the UK withdrawal from “east of Suez”; if the UK had kept a battalion or two resident in Kuwait, it’s interesting to speculate on how current history might have turned out very differently). But the Kuwaitis were as content as anyone else in the Arab world to indulge in US bashing and to keep their distance from any defense relationship with the US — until suddenly they calculated wrong.
And then all of a sudden they can’t wait for us to get there fast enough. “Stay out of sight far offshore US, but oh by the way if we decide we need you we will want everything you’ve got and it better be here instantly.”
If you want to be a US ally there ought to be a cost. And that cost is: a country’s politicians and people don’t get to have their cake and eat it too.
I don’t ask for “kowtowing”, just a refrain from US-bashing for purposes of domestic politics. Prolonged indulgence in this exhilarating wine ought to produce severe consequences.
Paul H. Good points. 1975, of course, was a political vacuum rather than diplomatic, and is not likely to be repeated soon. As I recall, we had zero formal alliance with Kuwait. It was merely in our interest. We have zero formal alliances with Israel. In fact, most of the nations that many of our generals loosely refer to as Allies are not in any form of alliance with us. (And some of those who are, we don’t presently like very much) We don’t need an alliance to go to war. Nor does an alliance dating back 50 years guarantee that we will be there. If the “chancellor” of the moment decides that the conflict is not “worth the bones of a Pomeranian Grenadier”, then any alliance becomes mere paper.
Yes, you’re right about it being a “political” vacuum. The disconnect between political and diplomatic realities in many places has become dangerous IMO and the two need to be brought into alignment with each other.
For one thing, we ought to use formal declarations of war again. We should have one currently against Al Queda. There should have been one against the Taliban (with a peace treaty and formal alliance then concluded with the current Afghan government, and the same with Iraq). One big advantage: getting bloviating US Senators on the record ahead of time, before they can acquire 20/20 hindsight.
And we ought to sign a peace treaty with North Korea and get out, now that South Korea has essentially recognized them as a separate country. Political actions ought to have real (and irrevocable) diplomatic consequences.