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	<title>Comments on: Dog meat &#8212; something for the poor, rural and atavistic?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun,  6 Jul 2008 23:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Guns and Butter</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/#comment-24479</link>
		<dc:creator>Guns and Butter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2071#comment-24479</guid>
		<description>Richardson:

I saw those photos before, but no, I am talking about another photo. In it, one can see that the dogs are packed together so tightly that this one dog's body is viciously contorted, with only its head sticking out of a mass of other dog bodies.

That dog had the saddest look I had ever seen on any dog, and I've seen too many sad looks on dogs.

James
aka Guns and Butter
aka The Asianist
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richardson:</p>
<p>I saw those photos before, but no, I am talking about another photo. In it, one can see that the dogs are packed together so tightly that this one dog&#8217;s body is viciously contorted, with only its head sticking out of a mass of other dog bodies.</p>
<p>That dog had the saddest look I had ever seen on any dog, and I&#8217;ve seen too many sad looks on dogs.</p>
<p>James<br />
aka Guns and Butter<br />
aka The Asianist</p>
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		<title>By: Richardson</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/#comment-24478</link>
		<dc:creator>Richardson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2071#comment-24478</guid>
		<description>This conversation is a great example of people talking past one another.

Guns-n-Butter, the link you want is;

&lt;a href="http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=82" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=82&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This conversation is a great example of people talking past one another.</p>
<p>Guns-n-Butter, the link you want is;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=82" rel="nofollow">http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=82</a></p>
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		<title>By: Guns and Butter</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/#comment-24477</link>
		<dc:creator>Guns and Butter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2071#comment-24477</guid>
		<description>There are two issues about dog-eating in Korea.

First, whether one thinks eating dog is acceptable or not, most people can and should agree that dogs should be treated humanely. That is clearly not the case in Korea (see photo of Moran Market; also here, including what appears to be a Jack Russel terrier, photos courtesy of Korea Animal Protection Society).

These dogs are abused, beaten, electrocuted, strangled. They are also caged in barbaric conditions (though I cannot find it now, there is a photo of the Moran market where live dogs are stuffed into a cage so tightly -- bodies all contorted -- they cannot move).

Second, there is the issue of whether dog consumption is like consuming cattle or pigs. As someone else pointed out, dogs are animals as cattle or pigs are, and as such are clearly not in the same category as humans, despite the tendencies of people to treat them so.

But dogs ARE special animals. We humans have formed a "natural contract" of sorts with them. Dogs have agreed to be our guardians, protectors, babysitters, rescuers, sled-pullers, bomb-sniffers, therapists for kids with incurable cancer and perform many other valuable work for us. In turn, we have agreed to be their companions, friends and guardians.

Although dogs descend from wild animals, they are highly domesticated and tamed. Many of them cannot survive without us looking after them.

I consider treating them inhumanely and eating them (except in emergency circumstances) a gross violation of that special bond we have formed.

As pet ownership of dogs rises in ROK, I expect much of the dog-eating to subside, except for the widespread myths about the medicinal properties of dog meat, propagated by dog meat sellers and a weird distortion of nationalism involving the inability take Western criticism about the practice).

By the way, I also blogged about a somewhat related topic of dog-giving to hostesses in Japan (and the dogs being dumped).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are two issues about dog-eating in Korea.</p>
<p>First, whether one thinks eating dog is acceptable or not, most people can and should agree that dogs should be treated humanely. That is clearly not the case in Korea (see photo of Moran Market; also here, including what appears to be a Jack Russel terrier, photos courtesy of Korea Animal Protection Society).</p>
<p>These dogs are abused, beaten, electrocuted, strangled. They are also caged in barbaric conditions (though I cannot find it now, there is a photo of the Moran market where live dogs are stuffed into a cage so tightly &#8212; bodies all contorted &#8212; they cannot move).</p>
<p>Second, there is the issue of whether dog consumption is like consuming cattle or pigs. As someone else pointed out, dogs are animals as cattle or pigs are, and as such are clearly not in the same category as humans, despite the tendencies of people to treat them so.</p>
<p>But dogs ARE special animals. We humans have formed a &#8220;natural contract&#8221; of sorts with them. Dogs have agreed to be our guardians, protectors, babysitters, rescuers, sled-pullers, bomb-sniffers, therapists for kids with incurable cancer and perform many other valuable work for us. In turn, we have agreed to be their companions, friends and guardians.</p>
<p>Although dogs descend from wild animals, they are highly domesticated and tamed. Many of them cannot survive without us looking after them.</p>
<p>I consider treating them inhumanely and eating them (except in emergency circumstances) a gross violation of that special bond we have formed.</p>
<p>As pet ownership of dogs rises in ROK, I expect much of the dog-eating to subside, except for the widespread myths about the medicinal properties of dog meat, propagated by dog meat sellers and a weird distortion of nationalism involving the inability take Western criticism about the practice).</p>
<p>By the way, I also blogged about a somewhat related topic of dog-giving to hostesses in Japan (and the dogs being dumped).</p>
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		<title>By: hornmush</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/#comment-24476</link>
		<dc:creator>hornmush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2071#comment-24476</guid>
		<description>Yo i just signed up for this place. pretty cool...

WELL ANYWAYS...

i think it is okay to eat dogs as long as it won't kill you...i hate it when people go "eww.... you ate a dog that is sooo cruel..." my response, if i ate one would be,if it was good that is," go screw off this ain't that bad."
if it were bad.,"well...the idea of eating this came from china in the first place...don't expect much..." MUwhahahaha!
 jk jk jk  i wouldn't say that.
all i'm trying to say is that any animal in the world can be eaten, as long as it doesn't kill you. people eat dogs,cats,snakes,whales,bears,mosquitos,camels,eels,live octopus,and etc. If you don't want to eat them then keep it too yourself instead of making other people feel bad bout eating an animal...(dog eat dog world). I mean you wouldn't see a lion who likes dogs complain bout a lion who ate a dog...man...that was weak....well okay...bye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yo i just signed up for this place. pretty cool&#8230;</p>
<p>WELL ANYWAYS&#8230;</p>
<p>i think it is okay to eat dogs as long as it won&#8217;t kill you&#8230;i hate it when people go &#8220;eww&#8230;. you ate a dog that is sooo cruel&#8230;&#8221; my response, if i ate one would be,if it was good that is,&#8221; go screw off this ain&#8217;t that bad.&#8221;<br />
if it were bad.,&#8221;well&#8230;the idea of eating this came from china in the first place&#8230;don&#8217;t expect much&#8230;&#8221; MUwhahahaha!<br />
 jk jk jk  i wouldn&#8217;t say that.<br />
all i&#8217;m trying to say is that any animal in the world can be eaten, as long as it doesn&#8217;t kill you. people eat dogs,cats,snakes,whales,bears,mosquitos,camels,eels,live octopus,and etc. If you don&#8217;t want to eat them then keep it too yourself instead of making other people feel bad bout eating an animal&#8230;(dog eat dog world). I mean you wouldn&#8217;t see a lion who likes dogs complain bout a lion who ate a dog&#8230;man&#8230;that was weak&#8230;.well okay&#8230;bye.</p>
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		<title>By: Waygugin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/#comment-24475</link>
		<dc:creator>Waygugin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 06:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2071#comment-24475</guid>
		<description>Gbevers, 

My point was that some people do not have the emotional attachment to dogs that you and others do. Except for this emotional attachment you have not many other case against eating dog meat. You hate it , you find it repugnant and you can't understand why others eat it, and you think it is "low culture." You make an illogical comparison with cannibalism to try and throw it in the same light. Is that the best you can do? Many people have no emotional attachment to dogs, why does this make them the same as cannibals?

Your agument about my being able to sympathize with dog lovers is an interesting one. I thinks ?????€?”¨'s eating some poor child's pet is wrong - that I am in complete agrrement with. I do sympathize with them, I just don't understand what that has to do with me. Me personally not liking to eat rabbit meat, and thinking other people are wrong for doing so doesn't hold water. That's my problem, not other peoples'. 

My original question was basically "I can't eat dog because you have a problem with it?"If your answer is yes, then that opens up all sorts of interesting possibilities doesn't it? What about hindus, many of whom consider eating cow a sin? To some, you biting into a hamburger is far worse, though some don't.  I also have a friend from Costa Rica who raised a chicken as a pet all his childhood only to come home one day and Grandma without him knowing it, cooked it for dinner. He loved that chikcen as much as any dog. Is the ony difference between him and you that there are more people who raise dogs than chickens as pets?

Even if dog eating in Korea is a fake culture, so what? What if they just like the taste? If people do not see dog in the same light as you do why is what they do wrong? The torture issue aside, why the need to demonize it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gbevers, </p>
<p>My point was that some people do not have the emotional attachment to dogs that you and others do. Except for this emotional attachment you have not many other case against eating dog meat. You hate it , you find it repugnant and you can&#8217;t understand why others eat it, and you think it is &#8220;low culture.&#8221; You make an illogical comparison with cannibalism to try and throw it in the same light. Is that the best you can do? Many people have no emotional attachment to dogs, why does this make them the same as cannibals?</p>
<p>Your agument about my being able to sympathize with dog lovers is an interesting one. I thinks ?????€?”¨&#8217;s eating some poor child&#8217;s pet is wrong - that I am in complete agrrement with. I do sympathize with them, I just don&#8217;t understand what that has to do with me. Me personally not liking to eat rabbit meat, and thinking other people are wrong for doing so doesn&#8217;t hold water. That&#8217;s my problem, not other peoples&#8217;. </p>
<p>My original question was basically &#8220;I can&#8217;t eat dog because you have a problem with it?&#8221;If your answer is yes, then that opens up all sorts of interesting possibilities doesn&#8217;t it? What about hindus, many of whom consider eating cow a sin? To some, you biting into a hamburger is far worse, though some don&#8217;t.  I also have a friend from Costa Rica who raised a chicken as a pet all his childhood only to come home one day and Grandma without him knowing it, cooked it for dinner. He loved that chikcen as much as any dog. Is the ony difference between him and you that there are more people who raise dogs than chickens as pets?</p>
<p>Even if dog eating in Korea is a fake culture, so what? What if they just like the taste? If people do not see dog in the same light as you do why is what they do wrong? The torture issue aside, why the need to demonize it?</p>
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		<title>By: shakuhachi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/#comment-24474</link>
		<dc:creator>shakuhachi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 02:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2071#comment-24474</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, Richardson. The problem is not dog meat eating, but the torture that Koreans do to the dogs before they are killed. Koreans even have a saying about it, '?°œ??” ??Œ??¤ ??¡?????¼ ?§??????¤?€™, which litterly means ?€?beaten dogs taste better?€™. You have to be a sick individual to be involved in that industry, in my opinion (the torture-killing, not the eating).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Richardson. The problem is not dog meat eating, but the torture that Koreans do to the dogs before they are killed. Koreans even have a saying about it, &#8216;?°œ??” ??Œ??¤ ??¡?????¼ ?§??????¤?€™, which litterly means ?€?beaten dogs taste better?€™. You have to be a sick individual to be involved in that industry, in my opinion (the torture-killing, not the eating).</p>
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		<title>By: Richardson</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/#comment-24473</link>
		<dc:creator>Richardson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 02:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2071#comment-24473</guid>
		<description>guerilla-sk said;

It is not the matter of the Koreans, it is the matter of the westerners who are ignorant of other people?€™s culture...

The problem is the people who are ignorant. Not Koreans who likes dog as a meat source.

Really? Is *that* the problem. I don't think so. 
Address this issue; those dogs are tortured to death, yes or no. 

If you say yes, then you condone beating/shocking/etc. dogs before eating, no way around it. 

If you say no, then there are two possibilities; (a) you are unaware of this (highly unlikely as you ID yourself as a Korean on Korean 'Soil,) and (b) denial. 

You choose. 

I'm not ignorant of the culture, I just think torturing an animal and calling it 'culture' is a chickenshit excuse to hide behind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>guerilla-sk said;</p>
<p>It is not the matter of the Koreans, it is the matter of the westerners who are ignorant of other people?€™s culture&#8230;</p>
<p>The problem is the people who are ignorant. Not Koreans who likes dog as a meat source.</p>
<p>Really? Is *that* the problem. I don&#8217;t think so.<br />
Address this issue; those dogs are tortured to death, yes or no. </p>
<p>If you say yes, then you condone beating/shocking/etc. dogs before eating, no way around it. </p>
<p>If you say no, then there are two possibilities; (a) you are unaware of this (highly unlikely as you ID yourself as a Korean on Korean &#8216;Soil,) and (b) denial. </p>
<p>You choose. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not ignorant of the culture, I just think torturing an animal and calling it &#8216;culture&#8217; is a chickenshit excuse to hide behind.</p>
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		<title>By: KrZ</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/#comment-24472</link>
		<dc:creator>KrZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 02:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2071#comment-24472</guid>
		<description>Are you using a proxy guerilla-sk?  Only reason I can really think of for it.  What's your IP?  I'll visual trace you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you using a proxy guerilla-sk?  Only reason I can really think of for it.  What&#8217;s your IP?  I&#8217;ll visual trace you.</p>
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		<title>By: guerilla-sk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/#comment-24471</link>
		<dc:creator>guerilla-sk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2071#comment-24471</guid>
		<description>Uh, Can anybody tell me why my country is shown as China? That's pretty freaky. Where's the setting for this thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, Can anybody tell me why my country is shown as China? That&#8217;s pretty freaky. Where&#8217;s the setting for this thing?</p>
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		<title>By: guerilla-sk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/15/dog-meat-something-for-the-poor-rural-and-atavistic/#comment-24470</link>
		<dc:creator>guerilla-sk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2071#comment-24470</guid>
		<description>Dogbert - Oh, and how many of us born and raised in the U.S. actually know anyone who hunts and eats squirrels? Pretty odd for a Korean to happen to meet such a person.

What's so damn odd about that? I lived in michigan for 10 years, and he was my homes back in the states. You would be surprised how much various food source Americans have other than beef, pork and chicken. And there's nothing wrong with that.

You think I am lying about my buddy? Well, don't believe it if you can't, but I ain't no liar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dogbert - Oh, and how many of us born and raised in the U.S. actually know anyone who hunts and eats squirrels? Pretty odd for a Korean to happen to meet such a person.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s so damn odd about that? I lived in michigan for 10 years, and he was my homes back in the states. You would be surprised how much various food source Americans have other than beef, pork and chicken. And there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>You think I am lying about my buddy? Well, don&#8217;t believe it if you can&#8217;t, but I ain&#8217;t no liar.</p>
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