In his latest ASIAN POP column at SFGATE.com, Jeff Yang tackled the delicate question of the consumption of dog meat in Asia. I’m grateful that Mr. Yang was kind enough to link to one of my posts in his piece, but I would like to take issue with something he said:
However, the incident prompted me to think seriously about the paradoxical situation dogs find themselves in in Korea and some other Asian societies. Among the ranks of urban sophisticates, dogs increasingly serve as substitute offspring — showered with affection and material indulgences. But among the poor, the rural and the stubbornly atavistic, dogs are sometimes still served as, well, dinner.
The poor, the rural and the stubbornly atavistic? Dog meat soup goes for W10,000 (about US$10) a bowl. Jeongol will set you back even more — the jeongol experience I documented in 2003 cost W17,000 a person. In other words, this is not a dish for the poor, and judging from the plethora of restaurants serving dog meat in Seoul, it’s not necessarily a rural thing, either. The dish is enjoyed by no less an epicurean than North Korean leader Kim Jong-il, and if that doesn’t say “urban sophistication,” I don’t know what does (and the staff of the Shilla Hotel put the price at W30,000).
As for “stubbornly atavistic,” well, I’m not sure what that comment means. I mean, Westerners have been eating beef for ages; with the exception of radical vegetarians, I’ve never heard anyone describe the practice as “stubbornly atavistic.”
In many ways, food is the fundamental unit of culture. We are what we eat — but what we eat and what we are constantly evolve. As people interact and cross-pollinate, what we might consider extreme traditions begin to be placed in a larger context, and for good or for ill, they change. Dog eating, like most other cultural phenomena that raise hackles in a rapidly globalizing world, will likely fade away — even as fast food, instant meals and processed, synthesized snacks permeate every part of the human species.
Not, mind you, that I’ll miss it. As much as I enjoy reading about the venturesome palates of food voyagers like Jerry Hopkins, I’m happy to keep my own consumption of canines to the following: hot dogs and hush puppies.
Dog meat? Fade away? God, I hope not.
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52 Comments
When a Korean tells a dog, ” I love you so much. I can just eat you up”, they mean it.
Once my employees and I were going out for lunch, and the girls were cooing over a rather cute ????°. My request to them “Not to play with food” didn;t go down well…
Mwahahaha
All my friends are “poor,” “rural,” and “stubbornly atavistic”
Which must make me the only one that’s “rich”, “urban,” or “pliantly civilized,” since I’ve never tasted dog before. Another contribution of misinformation by a “clueless gyopo”(?). I’d better be careful too. At least I learned a new word: a…
Here’s a post I did about half a year ago about a Christopher Hitchens article in which he makes the same kind of stupid remarks about his visit to North Korea.
Here’s the key quote from the Orwell expert himself:
I was reduced to eating a dog, and I was a privileged ?guest.??
According to my wife the dogs that are bred to be eaten are different from pet dogs. It is not like Koreans will grab a dog off the street to cook! They breed and raise them just like a cow. I’ve never eaten dog in Korea, but I probably would if I had the chance. My wife says it is very healthy, but she won’t eat it anyways.
Dog Eat Dog
SFGate’s Jeff Yang (via Foreign Dispatches’ Abiola Lapite) puts as fair and humorous a spin on the East Asian penchant for dog cuisine as I’ve seen outside the blogosphere. Instead of indulge in relativistic discourse about boshintang and PETA prote…
Dog Eat Dog
SFGates Jeff Yang (via Foreign Dispatches Abiola Lapite) puts as fair and humorous a spin on the East Asian penchant for dog cuisine as Ive seen outside the blogosphere. Instead of indulge in relativistic discourse about boshintang…
Unless they are Jewish, critics of eating dog really don’t have a leg to stand (or feast) on.
Eating pork and lobster and working on Saturday are just as much violations of the old law found in Leviticus as eating dog is.
The hypocritical West just needs to get off of its proverbial high horse (or dog) and have a bowl of dog and cheese ramyon.
The argument that eating dog and eating pork or lobster are the same is silly. I do not eat dogs because I have had dogs as pets and have loved them. I do not eat things I love.
Dogs are too close to humans to be considered food. If we are going to eat dogs, we might as well eat another human being.
I think many foreigners eat dogs to kiss up to their Korean hosts. It is a “go-native” thing that shows insecurity and a lack of personal conviction. And I think many Koreans eat dogs to simply say, “You can’t tell me what to do,” which shows a lack of maturity.
Next time your Korean boss or coworkers urge you to try the dog meat, please show a little backbone and just say, “No.”
You will be shocked to see that a greedy-looking Korean ajushi catches the scruff of a dog’s neck to guesstimate the dog’s weight at a traditional market and say “Wow, this dog looks stout. Ajumma(to a store owner), how many kilos does it weigh? Is this dog suitable for four of my friends to eat with soju?” Yikes!
GBevers,
What if a westerner like myself who never had an affinity for dogs, never raised one, never grew up with one and got bitten so many times by them in my childhood as a paperboy, felt it was just as logical to eat dog meat as any other meat, especially when they are specially bread? Do I have to love them too? Whereas my brother has been raising rabbits all his life, even now, and we have almost always had them in the house, can I protest against people who eat rabbits? Can I encourage a pan-western ban on rabbit eating just because my brother and me to some degree think it’s a little disgusting? How about eaters of horsemeat?
Would you mind defining a little bit more what makes dog,??Holy meat”? Did I miss somewhere in the bible where it said” thou shall not eat man’s best friend”? How would you react if the Hindus started a global campaign of “Don?t touch the cow!???
Though I would be more comfortable with dog eating if the conditions under which they are raised, which are allegedly horrendous, were improved. I am sorry but I don’t think you make any stronger case than anybody else that is put off by dog meat.
i’ve tried dog meat twice: in the soup and sliced meat form. but i don’t think i’d try it again because it was unnerving to eat something that humans have not only domesticated (yes, they have domesticated pigs and cows) but have also tamed, loved and have come to treat more as humans, not animals, sort of speak.
but also, the way these animals are killed is also a little disturbing. there is a dog meat restaurant near my home (coincidentally i live out in the sticks). they put these dogs (and yes they are not the same cute things we see in the pet shops but still, they are most def. dogs) — they put these creatures in a sack and beat them to death with a club.
it’s a long, painful death that is supposed to make the meat more tender. personally, after realizing this, i don’t think i could eat another one again.
yes i know the killing of cows and pigs are probably just as barbaric but i’ve never grown to love or feel affection for either animal so it’s hard to make a good comparison for me.
I used to date a cow.
Eating beef is natural.
Eating chicken is natural.
Eating pork is natural.
Eating dog is natural.
Even eating a monkey’s brain is more natural than eating a Big Mac, super sized french fries and a super sized coke.
If it’s natural, you can eat the damn thing. That’s final.
Stop thinking like a frog in the well and free your damn mind.
Guerilla-sk,
It also used to be natural for some cultures to eat human meat, which is now considered barbaric. I remember reading an interview will an old cannibal who said he missed human meat. He said it tasted like fish.
I do not think it is a matter of my coming out of my well; I think it is a matter of Koreans coming into the 21st century.
I’ve lived on a dairy farm most of my life, where most of my pets were either cows or cats. My major duty during high school was taking care of calves until they were old enough to be sold (mostly bulls) or heifers (females who haven’t been bred yet) released to join the herd. A battalion of cats was always present, and made quick work of any mice or rats which would have otherwise made dairy life very difficult. All the cats required in return for their services was the occasional treat of spilt milk and shelter from the elements. The cows, cats, and I became quite good friends (not this good) in a mutually supportive relationship.
However, not once did I ever consider giving up eating beef or advocating that Oriental people should give up eating cat.
Mark,
You grew up with both cows and cats as pets, yet you eat only the cow and not the cat? Why is that, Mark?
Even Koreans are surprised and shocked hear that some Koreans eat cat. In fact, many deny it.
Cats are another animal that should be right up there with dogs and apes on the “No-Eat” list.
If humans were considered a cultural delicacy by a certain group of people, would you still keep quiet about the eating habits of that group out of respect for their culture?
1. geery can’t answer waygook’s question for it would expose the fact that gerry’s entire argument is based on emotion.
2. i find it odd and a bit racist for mr yang to focus on koreans. dog eating came from china. most of the time, chinese folk are quick to point out anything in korean culture that came from china. how come this one is different?
3. you know those who argue against dog eating have lost the argument when they start comparing dogs to humans. that’s a comman tactic in the west.
By the way, Mark, eating parts of human children used to be considered a cure for leprosy here in Korea.
You grew up with both cows and cats as pets, yet you eat only the cow and not the cat? Why is that, Mark?
The cats didn’t have enough meat on them.
If humans were considered a cultural delicacy by a certain group of people, would you still keep quiet about the eating habits of that group out of respect for their culture?
Gee, I don’t know. Bite me and find out.
Actually, Mark, I think the Korean recipe is to put you in a sack and beat you to death first, so I do not think you would have much to say by the time I got around to biting you.
There’s no moral absolutism in this case- if eating a dog is wrong then so is eating cows, chicken, and pork- in fact, pigs are known to be more intelligent than dogs are- and some cultures have kept them as pets. Is eating bacon also like eating a human?
Perhaps if dog-meat wasn’t illegal, the industry could be regulated and the dogs would be kept in more sanitary conditions.
There’s a place in ???????? which serves the ?ͺ ?? of ?°?³??Έ°. A dish of sliced dog meat there costs 100k. Filling up a group of four can easily run up to 200k. However, I will say this, that place has fantastic dog meat, every other time I’ve had it it had a gamey, wet-dog taste and odor, but this place was fantastic. I think perhaps they don’t kill their dogs in the traditional hang them upside down and beat them to death fashion, all that adrenalin pumping through the dog gives the meat a bad taste, that’s just my theory though, I didn’t bother to ask their secret recipe. I’ve tried every strange food I can get my hands on, even rat. Now if I can just find some underground joint that serves barbecued GBevers, I wonder what that would taste like…
Haha Mark, nice links, did you by any chance get the horse thing by reading the Stranger?
KrZ: “…every other time I?ve had [dog] it had a gamey, wet-dog taste and odor….”
Gerry: I guess once you have tasted and smelled “gamey, wet-dog,” there is just no going back to pork or beef, huh?
If I had ever eaten any kind of meat that tasted and smelled like “gamey, wet dog,” I would have ever gone back for seconds. I wonder why KrZ did?
the whole arguement of “there are pet dogs and eating dogs and they are different”, doesn’t hold up too well when you go to the market and see the stray dogs that have been rounded up and are being sold along with the chickens and ducks, often with collars still on. although actually i have no probelm with that. its the way they are treated/killed that i have a problem with.
I think it’s easy to make the argument that all animals are fair game, so to speak. If you eat one kind of meat, what rational reason is there for not eating all others? They’re all animals, after all.
However, I think that this assumes that all animals are qualitatively the same. Of course, in a way, this is true - all animals are not human. Even so, I think it’s over-simplifying to assert that all animals have the same sorts of relationships to people. Pigs may be smarter than dogs, and cows may be more “sensitive,” yes. It’s hard to think of a situation in which a pig would protect its owner’s home and family though, or one in which a cow would rescue a lost or hurt person. Moreover, the affection a dog shows to its owner may be mostly in the owner’s mind, but there’s still something there to stimulate that perception, something not normally found with pigs, cows, or other animals.
It’s possible to argue that this is just a matter of tradition, but I can’t think of any culture in which pigs or cows play the sorts of roles normally reserved for dogs. Everyone knows that some people keep pigs as housepets, but I don’t know what the success rate is. I do know that it was a disaster for the family of a friend of mine. (wanna be gored by the family pig?)
I’m not trying to say that Koreans shouldn’t eat dogmeat. I’ve had it enough myself, though I don’t like it as much as Robert does. I just think that the argument against dog-eating can be based on more than just blind emotion. That is, as long as Brigitte Bardot is out of the discussion.
Nerdieboy,
No, the horse happened to come across my screen due to my having a “Seattle” feed in my RSS reader…I had to use a whole bottle of Glass Plus to clean up the mess.
Ouside of a dog, books are man’s best friend.
Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read.
Groucho Marx
So shuddup and eat… Dogs are too close to humans to be considered food. The closest a dog ever was to me was when I dipped my spoon in ???Ί?ζΉ? or picked a morsel of ????‘ with my chopsticks.
Sigh…
It’s creepy the way GBevers refers to himself in the third person.
I don’t think we need to go down the ‘don’t eat pet’s road’ anymore. That goes back and forth and never ends. It’s the reason for some, not others, we all get that.
The reason not to eat dog is the method of killing, basically torture. Yeah, some will say they don’t do that anymore. Right, just like they cracked down on prostitution.
Face it, Koreans will continue to torture dogs, which is believed by some to release hormones into the meat just before the animal dies, which will help put a little wind in ajjoshi’s flagging… er, sail. Which of course is moronic bullshit.
It comes down to this; if you’re eating dog, you’re eating an animal that was tortured. If you can live with that, whatever. You won’t find me eating dog.
Human eating human is wrong, because we are the same species and we aren’t like a freakin praying mantis. How can you compare eating dog to cannibalism? That’s just totally ridiculous.
It is not the matter of the Koreans, it is the matter of the westerners who are ignorant of other people’s culture.
I had a friend who was American, he shoots squirrel running around in his backyard with a shotgun, cooks it and eats it with his family. I didn’t have no problem with that. Why not eat a squirrel? It’s eatable. Yeah, I don’t want to eat a squirrel but I respect it. People who are ignorant has something to say about it like, “Eww, how can you eat a squirrel? It’s so very cute and small, you are a damn stupid redneck for eating it.”
The problem is the people who are ignorant. Not Koreans who likes dog as a meat source.
Fucc that.
And I am not chinese. I am South Korean living on South Korean Soil. I must have messed up my settings or something.
Guerilla-sk: “Human eating human is wrong, because we are the same species and we aren?t like a freakin praying mantis.”
Gerry: But isn’t one of the dog-eaters’ arguments “meat is meat”? Why not eat human meat? “Meat is meat,” right? The cannibal I mentioned earlier said human meat tasted like fish. Don’t you like fish, Guerilla?
Guerilla-sk: “It is not the matter of the Koreans, it is the matter of the westerners who are ignorant of other people?s culture.”
Gerry: There are cultures who were cannibals until relatively recent times, when outsiders convinced them to stop eating human meat. In fact, as I mentioned above, Koreans used to believe that eating human meat could cure leprosy. Even today some Koreans believe that eating human bone and placenta can cure arthritis. Should we respect those beliefs in the name of culture, as well?
Eventually, Koreans will learn to stop eating dogs, just as cannibals in the past learned to stop eating human beings.
Gbevers,
Why did you not answer my question? Did you think it was not worth an answer?
According to my wife the dogs that are bred to be eaten are different from pet dogs. It is not like Koreans will grab a dog off the street to cook! They breed and raise them just like a cow.
This falls apart when thought about even a bit. A dog is a dog — the animal is the same, only the way in which it is treated differs. However, this is something that many Koreans like to say as though it actually meant something. And FYI, there are (or at least were) men on scooters who drive around urban neighborhoods announcing that they purchase dogs. Oh, and I have visited a dog farm. Not at all like cattle.
I think many foreigners eat dogs to kiss up to their Korean hosts. It is a ?go-native?? thing that shows insecurity and a lack of personal conviction. Next time your Korean boss or coworkers urge you to try the dog meat, please show a little backbone and just say, ?No.??
I eat dog because I like the taste. I happen to think that people like yourself who unreasonably limit their gastronomic experiences are insecure, but that’s just me.
Gerry, there are Westerners who eat human placenta.
It’s a wide world out there.
Oh, and how many of us born and raised in the U.S. actually know anyone who hunts and eats squirrels? Pretty odd for a Korean to happen to meet such a person.
Eating dog meat that’s been farmed properly doesn’t bother me too much (although I haven’t personally had it), but rounding up stray dogs is just disgusting. I don’t know about Korea, but stray dogs here in Taipei are almost all infested with disease and parasites, and I wouldn’t want to even touch an animal in that condition.
Americans should sell the dogs they euthanize to Koreans.
I wonder if some of the dog eating people would also eat apes, and if not, why not?
I’d eat some monkeys. I don’t know about great apes, they’re by and large too endangered. But if there was a raging chimpanzee infestation going on I might try some chimp-ribs or something.
Gerry: But isn?t one of the dog-eaters? arguments ?meat is meat??? Why not eat human meat? ?Meat is meat,?? right? The cannibal I mentioned earlier said human meat tasted like fish. Don?t you like fish, Guerilla?
Well, I don’t know who’s argument that is, but it ain’t mine. You don’t EAT Human because You are a human. Get it? SAME DAMN SPECIES!!! As I said, we ain’t no friggin praying mantis. Human is the exception of all. Oh, it tastes like fish? so what the hell is your point for godsakes? I really don’t get you for comparing eating dogs to cannibalism. THEY ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT, YET YOU LOVE TO COMPARE IT LIKE IT’S THE SAME THING. That’s just friggin manson shizinite. Disgusting, man.
Gerry: There are cultures who were cannibals until relatively recent times, when outsiders convinced them to stop eating human meat. In fact, as I mentioned above, Koreans used to believe that eating human meat could cure leprosy. Even today some Koreans believe that eating human bone and placenta can cure arthritis. Should we respect those beliefs in the name of culture, as well?
Well, I do not CARE about them. We are not talking about cannibalists. We are talking about eating dogs, not human.
Which part do you not get, man?
Jesus, this is so damn creepy. You still don’t understand where I am coming from? I have done my best. Whatever, man.
Dogbert - Oh, and how many of us born and raised in the U.S. actually know anyone who hunts and eats squirrels? Pretty odd for a Korean to happen to meet such a person.
What’s so damn odd about that? I lived in michigan for 10 years, and he was my homes back in the states. You would be surprised how much various food source Americans have other than beef, pork and chicken. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
You think I am lying about my buddy? Well, don’t believe it if you can’t, but I ain’t no liar.
Uh, Can anybody tell me why my country is shown as China? That’s pretty freaky. Where’s the setting for this thing?
Are you using a proxy guerilla-sk? Only reason I can really think of for it. What’s your IP? I’ll visual trace you.
guerilla-sk said;
It is not the matter of the Koreans, it is the matter of the westerners who are ignorant of other people?s culture…
The problem is the people who are ignorant. Not Koreans who likes dog as a meat source.
Really? Is *that* the problem. I don’t think so.
Address this issue; those dogs are tortured to death, yes or no.
If you say yes, then you condone beating/shocking/etc. dogs before eating, no way around it.
If you say no, then there are two possibilities; (a) you are unaware of this (highly unlikely as you ID yourself as a Korean on Korean ‘Soil,) and (b) denial.
You choose.
I’m not ignorant of the culture, I just think torturing an animal and calling it ‘culture’ is a chickenshit excuse to hide behind.
I agree with you, Richardson. The problem is not dog meat eating, but the torture that Koreans do to the dogs before they are killed. Koreans even have a saying about it, ‘?°?? ????€ ??‘?????Ό ?§??????€?, which litterly means ??beaten dogs taste better?. You have to be a sick individual to be involved in that industry, in my opinion (the torture-killing, not the eating).
Gbevers,
My point was that some people do not have the emotional attachment to dogs that you and others do. Except for this emotional attachment you have not many other case against eating dog meat. You hate it , you find it repugnant and you can’t understand why others eat it, and you think it is “low culture.” You make an illogical comparison with cannibalism to try and throw it in the same light. Is that the best you can do? Many people have no emotional attachment to dogs, why does this make them the same as cannibals?
Your agument about my being able to sympathize with dog lovers is an interesting one. I thinks ??????¨’s eating some poor child’s pet is wrong - that I am in complete agrrement with. I do sympathize with them, I just don’t understand what that has to do with me. Me personally not liking to eat rabbit meat, and thinking other people are wrong for doing so doesn’t hold water. That’s my problem, not other peoples’.
My original question was basically “I can’t eat dog because you have a problem with it?”If your answer is yes, then that opens up all sorts of interesting possibilities doesn’t it? What about hindus, many of whom consider eating cow a sin? To some, you biting into a hamburger is far worse, though some don’t. I also have a friend from Costa Rica who raised a chicken as a pet all his childhood only to come home one day and Grandma without him knowing it, cooked it for dinner. He loved that chikcen as much as any dog. Is the ony difference between him and you that there are more people who raise dogs than chickens as pets?
Even if dog eating in Korea is a fake culture, so what? What if they just like the taste? If people do not see dog in the same light as you do why is what they do wrong? The torture issue aside, why the need to demonize it?
Yo i just signed up for this place. pretty cool…
WELL ANYWAYS…
i think it is okay to eat dogs as long as it won’t kill you…i hate it when people go “eww…. you ate a dog that is sooo cruel…” my response, if i ate one would be,if it was good that is,” go screw off this ain’t that bad.”
if it were bad.,”well…the idea of eating this came from china in the first place…don’t expect much…” MUwhahahaha!
jk jk jk i wouldn’t say that.
all i’m trying to say is that any animal in the world can be eaten, as long as it doesn’t kill you. people eat dogs,cats,snakes,whales,bears,mosquitos,camels,eels,live octopus,and etc. If you don’t want to eat them then keep it too yourself instead of making other people feel bad bout eating an animal…(dog eat dog world). I mean you wouldn’t see a lion who likes dogs complain bout a lion who ate a dog…man…that was weak….well okay…bye.
There are two issues about dog-eating in Korea.
First, whether one thinks eating dog is acceptable or not, most people can and should agree that dogs should be treated humanely. That is clearly not the case in Korea (see photo of Moran Market; also here, including what appears to be a Jack Russel terrier, photos courtesy of Korea Animal Protection Society).
These dogs are abused, beaten, electrocuted, strangled. They are also caged in barbaric conditions (though I cannot find it now, there is a photo of the Moran market where live dogs are stuffed into a cage so tightly — bodies all contorted — they cannot move).
Second, there is the issue of whether dog consumption is like consuming cattle or pigs. As someone else pointed out, dogs are animals as cattle or pigs are, and as such are clearly not in the same category as humans, despite the tendencies of people to treat them so.
But dogs ARE special animals. We humans have formed a “natural contract” of sorts with them. Dogs have agreed to be our guardians, protectors, babysitters, rescuers, sled-pullers, bomb-sniffers, therapists for kids with incurable cancer and perform many other valuable work for us. In turn, we have agreed to be their companions, friends and guardians.
Although dogs descend from wild animals, they are highly domesticated and tamed. Many of them cannot survive without us looking after them.
I consider treating them inhumanely and eating them (except in emergency circumstances) a gross violation of that special bond we have formed.
As pet ownership of dogs rises in ROK, I expect much of the dog-eating to subside, except for the widespread myths about the medicinal properties of dog meat, propagated by dog meat sellers and a weird distortion of nationalism involving the inability take Western criticism about the practice).
By the way, I also blogged about a somewhat related topic of dog-giving to hostesses in Japan (and the dogs being dumped).
This conversation is a great example of people talking past one another.
Guns-n-Butter, the link you want is;
http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=82
Richardson:
I saw those photos before, but no, I am talking about another photo. In it, one can see that the dogs are packed together so tightly that this one dog’s body is viciously contorted, with only its head sticking out of a mass of other dog bodies.
That dog had the saddest look I had ever seen on any dog, and I’ve seen too many sad looks on dogs.
James
aka Guns and Butter
aka The Asianist