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	<title>Comments on: The N.K. nuke accord &#8212; the devil&#8217;s in the translation?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/27/the-nk-nuke-accord-the-devils-in-the-translation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/27/the-nk-nuke-accord-the-devils-in-the-translation/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu,  4 Dec 2008 04:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: baduk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/27/the-nk-nuke-accord-the-devils-in-the-translation/#comment-23942</link>
		<dc:creator>baduk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 05:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2039#comment-23942</guid>
		<description>Confucianism limits personal freedom.  It is badly outdated; it was OK in 19th century but absurd in 20th century.  And, we are living in 21st century.

Old tools and systems must be thrown away, to go forward.  Even though I like some aspects of Confucianism, respect for the old and strong family structure, I am afraid it has become obsolete just like Communism.

NKs are losers for holding on to these antiquated systems.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Confucianism limits personal freedom.  It is badly outdated; it was OK in 19th century but absurd in 20th century.  And, we are living in 21st century.</p>
<p>Old tools and systems must be thrown away, to go forward.  Even though I like some aspects of Confucianism, respect for the old and strong family structure, I am afraid it has become obsolete just like Communism.</p>
<p>NKs are losers for holding on to these antiquated systems.</p>
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		<title>By: Antti</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/27/the-nk-nuke-accord-the-devils-in-the-translation/#comment-23941</link>
		<dc:creator>Antti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 03:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2039#comment-23941</guid>
		<description>North Koreans themselves don't fancy the idea of applying Confucianism to their republic.

It was funny (and very predictable) how the North Korean participants to a Korean Studies conference last summer in the UK reacted to a presentation by a Russian scholar (Alexander Zhebin), who suggested that Confucian elements have  lately been used increasingly in DPRK in legitimizing the rule. His presentation was well argued, but with the North Korean take to scholarship, that is never the issue. (Dr. Zhebin did not claim that the system would be in any basic way Confucian.)
 
Those sitting in front of the head of the DPRK delegation, the old veteran of many of those conferences who speaks English but has perhaps never presented a paper himself, said they could feel the wrath emanating from him when he denounced the presentation as an insult to their leader and their system.

If Kim Il-sung and his son were thought of as Confucian rulers, I guess suitable posthumous names for them would be K?´nh?´-gun (??º?™????) and Mangguk-gun (?º¡?œ????). 
(Waiting for a fatal blow from Dda...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>North Koreans themselves don&#8217;t fancy the idea of applying Confucianism to their republic.</p>
<p>It was funny (and very predictable) how the North Korean participants to a Korean Studies conference last summer in the UK reacted to a presentation by a Russian scholar (Alexander Zhebin), who suggested that Confucian elements have  lately been used increasingly in DPRK in legitimizing the rule. His presentation was well argued, but with the North Korean take to scholarship, that is never the issue. (Dr. Zhebin did not claim that the system would be in any basic way Confucian.)</p>
<p>Those sitting in front of the head of the DPRK delegation, the old veteran of many of those conferences who speaks English but has perhaps never presented a paper himself, said they could feel the wrath emanating from him when he denounced the presentation as an insult to their leader and their system.</p>
<p>If Kim Il-sung and his son were thought of as Confucian rulers, I guess suitable posthumous names for them would be K?´nh?´-gun (??º?™????) and Mangguk-gun (?º¡?œ????).<br />
(Waiting for a fatal blow from Dda&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: g_travan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/27/the-nk-nuke-accord-the-devils-in-the-translation/#comment-23940</link>
		<dc:creator>g_travan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 01:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2039#comment-23940</guid>
		<description>Although this article is very fascinating and defintely worth reading, I am saddened by how easily "Confucian" is thrown around these days. North Korea is almost the total antithesis of Confucius. Rigid hierarchy and blind loyalty to elders and government is actually the tenet of the Legalists, who literally buried Confucianism alive in ancient China. 

Confucianism stresses rule by virtue, good example and personal morality, while shunning rule by fear, which is deemed to destroy the people's scruples. It is obvious that few people commenting on Asia have read anything by Confucius or Mencius. Otherwise they wouldn't label anything that seemed old-fashioned or tyrannical as "Confucian". 

This is particularly sad in Korea, which, as far as I know, is the last refuge of traditional Confucianists, who lead quiet, secluded lives in rural areas studying and teaching philosophy, literature and the arts. These genuine disciples of Confucius are a far cry from the brutal North Korean Communist ruling class.

Maybe a short quote from the beginning of the Great Learning will be of help:

"From the Son of Heaven down to the mass of the people, all must consider the cultivation of the person the root of everything besides."

This is not the governing philosophy of a totalitarian regime where a person has almost no value at all, and is given nearly no chance to cultivate themselves intellectually or morally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although this article is very fascinating and defintely worth reading, I am saddened by how easily &#8220;Confucian&#8221; is thrown around these days. North Korea is almost the total antithesis of Confucius. Rigid hierarchy and blind loyalty to elders and government is actually the tenet of the Legalists, who literally buried Confucianism alive in ancient China. </p>
<p>Confucianism stresses rule by virtue, good example and personal morality, while shunning rule by fear, which is deemed to destroy the people&#8217;s scruples. It is obvious that few people commenting on Asia have read anything by Confucius or Mencius. Otherwise they wouldn&#8217;t label anything that seemed old-fashioned or tyrannical as &#8220;Confucian&#8221;. </p>
<p>This is particularly sad in Korea, which, as far as I know, is the last refuge of traditional Confucianists, who lead quiet, secluded lives in rural areas studying and teaching philosophy, literature and the arts. These genuine disciples of Confucius are a far cry from the brutal North Korean Communist ruling class.</p>
<p>Maybe a short quote from the beginning of the Great Learning will be of help:</p>
<p>&#8220;From the Son of Heaven down to the mass of the people, all must consider the cultivation of the person the root of everything besides.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is not the governing philosophy of a totalitarian regime where a person has almost no value at all, and is given nearly no chance to cultivate themselves intellectually or morally.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: iwshim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/27/the-nk-nuke-accord-the-devils-in-the-translation/#comment-23939</link>
		<dc:creator>iwshim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2039#comment-23939</guid>
		<description>I read the article further and he goes onto say:

In contrast to the American media description of North Korea as a "Stalinist Communist state," I have come to see it as a Confucian nationalist monarchy, based on traditional Korean values and reflecting the bitterness born of foreign invasions throughout Korean history. In Confucian society, loyalty to the ruler and respect for elders are basic tenets. The iconic stature of the late "great leader" Kim Il Sung isn't that different from the Confucian image of a divine ruler.
__________________________________________________

Isn?€™t this a winded way to say cult?

A cult should be defined by three factors.
1. Chrassmatic Leader - Kim Il Sung (He is dead but has the title leader for life)
2. Afraid of outsiders - Hermit Kingdom
3. No Freedom ?€“ N. Korea ranks terrible in freedom of the press or speech for that matter.

The point is that cults go crazy and tend to kill themselves when faced with collapse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the article further and he goes onto say:</p>
<p>In contrast to the American media description of North Korea as a &#8220;Stalinist Communist state,&#8221; I have come to see it as a Confucian nationalist monarchy, based on traditional Korean values and reflecting the bitterness born of foreign invasions throughout Korean history. In Confucian society, loyalty to the ruler and respect for elders are basic tenets. The iconic stature of the late &#8220;great leader&#8221; Kim Il Sung isn&#8217;t that different from the Confucian image of a divine ruler.<br />
__________________________________________________</p>
<p>Isn?€™t this a winded way to say cult?</p>
<p>A cult should be defined by three factors.<br />
1. Chrassmatic Leader - Kim Il Sung (He is dead but has the title leader for life)<br />
2. Afraid of outsiders - Hermit Kingdom<br />
3. No Freedom ?€“ N. Korea ranks terrible in freedom of the press or speech for that matter.</p>
<p>The point is that cults go crazy and tend to kill themselves when faced with collapse.</p>
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