UPDATE II: Foreign Minister Ban Ki-moon has sent a written response to Rep. Hyde stating the Korean government’s position not to permit the statue of Gen. MacArthur to be removed or damaged. He also mentioned that high-ranking Cheong Wa Dae officials planned to meet with those calling for the statue to be removed to explain to them the importance of the Korea-U.S. alliance and the sacrifices made by Gen. MacArthur. On a more feel-good note, he also said neither the Korean government nor the Korean people have forgotten the sacrifices made by Americans in protecting democracy in Korea, and that they remember Gen. MacArthur as a “great and brave hero of the Korean War.” He also noted that when, thanks to the North Korean nuclear issue, the importance of a strong Korean-U.S. alliance was been highlighted, he was sure that the regretable actions of some would not influence the bilateral relationship.
Note to Ban — Thanks for the letter, although I only wish your appraisal of Gen. MacArthur had been made by President Roh, whose own take on the man was, well, tepid at best. As for sitting down with the protestors in an effort to change their minds, don’t bother — these are some real reunificationistas we’re dealing with.
UPDATE: One Free Korea posted the entire letter — House stationary and all — over at his blog. READ IT NOW!
ORIGINAL POST: As if the Gen. MacArthur mess hadn’t gotten completely out of hand already, now the U.S. Congress has decided to step into the ring:
The House Committee on International Relations, in a letter to South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun, said the U.S. Congress is “disturbed” by reports of protests around the statue of General Douglas MacArthur, whom protesters describe as a “war criminal.”
“Needless to say, Mr. President, the Congress of the United States and the American people would never subscribe to such a description of a hero who led the Allied forces which liberated the Republic of Korea twice,” the letter said, referring to Korea’s liberation from Japanese colonial rule and the famous Incheon landing that marked its 55th anniversary on Thursday.
According to the Korean-language report, five lawmakers signed the letter — committee chairman Henry J. Hyde (R), Dana Rohrabacher (R), Edward R. Royce (R), Eni F. H. Faleomavaega (D) and Joseph Crowley (D).
The lawmakers also requested that if the statue is going to be subject to continued attacks that it be handed over to the United States. If the statue is returned to the United States, it would be placed within the U.S. Congress grounds, which is close to the Korean War Memorial.
They also took note of Prime Minister Lee Hae-chan’s warning to punish anyone trying to damage the statue (I’m sure Lee appreciated that), and expressed hope that the Korean government would take all necessary measures to ensure that the statue was not harmed.
Toward the end of the letter, they noted that in the House chamber, there are two portraits — one of George Washington, and the other of the Marquis de Lafayette. They said that just as memories of America’s favorite Frenchman have been etched in the hearts of Americans for the last 200 years, they hope memories of MacArthur would be cherished in the hearts of Koreans.
Anyway, to tell you the truth, I don’t know how I feel about the Congress writing in about this issue. That the debate over the MacArthur statue has now managed to become a major issue within Korea itself represents a major victory for those wanting to pull the thing down, and now with the U.S. Congress publically expressing concern, the debate has been taken to a whole new level by becoming not simply a domestic issue, but an international one.
The other thing, of course, is that while the issue is, of course, a very emotional one for both Koreans and Americans (and I guess that if the United States were to remove its portaits and statues of Lafayette in a ecstatic frenzy of frog-bashing, I’d expect the French government to perhaps say something), the fact remains that the statue in question stands in a Korean park, where it was erected by the Koreans with money raised by Incheon residents. In other words, why is the U.S. Congress making statements about an issue that is, frankly, a purely domestic matter? And by appearing to intervene in Korea’s domestic affairs, the lawmakers might have handed to the loonies looking to due harm to Big Mac ammunition for their arguments.
125 Comments
I guess that if the United States were to remove its portaits and statues of Lafayette in a ecstatic frenzy of frog-bashing, I?d expect the French government to perhaps say something
Yes, but we’re way too classy for that. Our public officials are NOT the ones calling allied heads of states names (Canada, anyone?).
the fact remains that the statue in question stands in a Korean park, where it was erected by the Koreans with money raised by Incheon residents
True. But it is an image of an American icon. Besides, just surely as Koreans can do what they please with the statue, we Americans and our representatives can tell the Korean government what some of us feel like AND what we plan to do if it were to allow such things to occur to a highly symbolic American icon.
And by appearing to intervene in Korea?s domestic affairs, the lawmakers might have handed to the loonies looking to due harm to Big Mac ammunition for their arguments.
I agree that our “interventions” have not been very efficacious and often produced results contrary to what we intended. Sometimes “cold silence” is better than outright opposition. Sometimes it is better to “sit it out” until the adults are back in charge.
But at some point, one has to draw a line and find a hill to die on. I personally think that the radicals over-reached on this issue and a judicious indication of American outrage can be useful in restoring some sense of sanity.
Polls, as flawed as they may be, seem to indicate that, as much as South Koreans blame American for a lot of ills, a substantial majority of them does not seem especially keen to end the alliance with the United States, until the politico-economic and security landscape surrounding “post-American” Korea is clear.
If so, I think this is a moment of advantage for a public announcement of indignation by the US in regards to a protest with which a substantial majority of Koreans likely disagree strongly.
James
aka Guns and Butter
aka The Asianist
I welcome the move by the US congress. I think the US should go a step further. Threaten Korea about boycotting Samsung and Hyundai products till Korea properly honor one of America’s most beloved generals.
This will get heads rolling. From the corporate headquarters to the universities, the PURGE of Commies will start. When the righteous removal of these mofos are completed, SK will have a much better future.
Boycott Korean products if they are made by future terrorists! Hit them where they hurt - their wallets.
Koreans kow-tow to North Korea. Korean congressmen were beaten up by the Chinese, yet Korea keeps silent.
Only country Korea trash freely is the US. Americans have been too nice. Enough is enough. It is time to flex some muscle and get these Commie doggies to eat s***.
Koreans respect power. All Asians do. It is time to show them some.
Korea trashes the U.S. freely because it knows the U.S. won’t discipline it, like North Korea and China will. Weren’t you the one who said children should be disciplined physically? I’d say that’s a good analogy here.
And, Stop KAL and Asiana Airline from flying in and out of the continental US. They may be carrying future terrorists.
Let’s see how many days Korea can last under this kind of pressure. Rho will be force to resign and pro-American president will be elected by Koreans in overwhelming majority.
Time to get Korea into shape.
I am both tantalized and petrified by Baduk’s vision of the world
U.S. lawmakers pissed about MacArthur debate
Duh.
baduk wrote:
I think the US should go a step further. Threaten Korea about boycotting Samsung and Hyundai products till Korea properly honor one of America?s most beloved generals.
Indeed. That’d make this comedy perfect!
Many American historians, i.e. the Histoy Channel, regard MacArthur’s push across the 38th Parallel to be a major military blunder because it unnecessarily prolonged the military conflict by many years and resulted in the death of tens of thousands of Americans for nothing.
Yeah, those hippies would call all wars unnecessary. And, their hero is Pres. Truman who insisted that the US forces to stay out of Asia. I guess the defeat in VietNam justifies their claims.
But, you know what history is funny thing. If you change one thing in the past, then it may change other things, etc, etc.
Whatever happened up to this point made America the strongest country in the world. If MacArthur did not push, then Korean conflict may have ended with a few deaths on American soldiers and the US could have pulled out of Korea. This may have given NK chance to eat up SK just like VietCong ate up VietNam as soon as the US departed. The unified Korea could have been under China for fifty years. And, by now may be attacking Japan with missles when the US got 9/11. America had to fight Islam terrorists and the Russian/Chinese/Korean forces attacking Japan at the same time.
Who knows?
The Congress Strikes Back over “Battle of Inchon”
Earlier, I wrote about the violent clashes in Inchon, Korea over the MacArthur statue.
Now some US congressmen are intervening in a diplomatic, but indignant letter to President Roh of South Korea.
Read the whole letter — it strikes just the rig…
Yes, but we?re way too classy for that.
Really? Forget about “Freedom Fries”?
On March 11, 2003, Representatives Robert W. Ney (R - Ohio) and Walter B. Jones, Jr. (R - North Carolina) declared that all references to “french fries” and “French toast” on the menus of the restaurants and snack bars run by the House of Representatives would be removed. House cafeterias were ordered to re-name french fries as “freedom fries”. This action was carried out without a congressional vote, under the authority of Congressman Ney’s position as Chairman of the Committee on House Administration, which oversees restaurant operations in the house. The simultaneous renaming of French toast to “freedom toast” attracted less attention.
It would be wise to remember that people from all walks of life can be petty.
Marmot: “I don?t know how I feel about the Congress writing in about this issue.”
Gerry: Do you really not know, Marmot? Has it really become that difficult for you to know your true feelings on an issue? I am just curious because your comments of late are so timid. Do you feel like Big Brother is watching you or something? Or do you feel that since you are the moderator of a popular blog, you have to walk that middle line where no one is offended? It seems like the only real stand you have taken lately is on Koreans’ right to eat dog meat.
I am glad the US Congress has finally spoken up, and I do not understand, at all, how the Marmot can see this as possible ammunition for those who want to pull down the statue. The issue is not really the statue; it is anti-Americanism.
This issue gives us the perfect opportunity to show just how ridiculous anti-Americanism in Korea has become. By making it an international issue, Koreans may be forced to finally reflect on that fact, and may even come to the conclusion that these anti-American groups are just a bunch of Kim-Jong-il-butt-kissing looney-toons. By keeping quiet and letting South Korea’s pro-North goofballs get away with their outrageous comments, we risk allowing them to continue to brainwash and influence hundreds of thousands of South Korean children and uninformed adults.
Yes, the statue belongs to Koreans, not the US, which is something the US lawmakers seemed to be confused about, but the important point is that they let Koreans know that there are limits to the crap that Americans are willing to take.
I say give the statue to the US whether then let it become a rallying point for anti-American goofballs in Korea. I would whether see it stand in the US than let it stand where Koreans can throw eggs at it. I would also whether see it stand in the US than on the mud flats off the west coast of Incheon, as one goofball suggested here.
It is not a ‘purely domestic issue” when Koreans spread lies about an American hero. I think the relatives of MacArthur should take these goofballs to court and sue them for all they can get, just as relatives of King Kojong and Queen Min did to Kim Wan-seop.
Mr. Bevers — No, I’m not being watched by Big Brother. What I disagree with here is Congress taking a stand on what another country does with one of its own statues. If the US Congress wants to bitch about anti-Americanism, fine. But making a statement specifically about an issue like the Incheon statue strikes me as making the same mistake Koreans make when they try to involve themselves in the Japanese educational policy (or even the Yasukuni Shrine, for that matter), i.e., it comes dangerously close to intereference in the internal affairs of another state. And let’s face it — it’s not like the Congressional letter is going to change the minds of anyone looking to pull the thing down, and it could very well rub even those opposed to taking the statue down the wrong way because no one likes foreign countries butting into their internal affairs.
The grammatically anally retentive me has to step in:
I say give the statue to the US whether then let it become a rallying point for anti-American goofballs in Korea. I would whether see it stand in the US than let it stand where Koreans can throw eggs at it. I would also whether see it stand in the US than on the mud flats off the west coast of Incheon, as one goofball suggested here.
It’s RATHER, not whether. And it’s THAN, not then.
Marmot, you seem to know your feelings on the issue better than you thought.
Let’s be clear here. We are not talking about a statue of a Korean hero, and we are not just talking about the statue of any old American hero; we are talking about the statue of a man who led hundreds of thousands of Americans to fight for South Korean freedom. When you think about it, the US paid an awful lot for that statue, so is it really that wrong for the US congress to send a letter expressing their concern to the Korean president, who seems to be unwilling to admit MacArthur’s contribution to South Korean independence? And even though Yi Sun-shin did not do a damn thing for the US, do you think the US president would not get a letter if Americans, including politicians and historians, were protesting a statue of Yi Sun-shin and calling him a war criminal?
You are going to have to give me a little more detail if you expect me to see how this is in any way equivalent to the Korean government protesting Japanese history books. You might be able to make a case if An Jung-geun had saved Japan from invasion instead of assassinating one of her greatest statesmen.
Koreans are not going to think of this as the US butting into Korean affairs because Koreans understand that unjustly slamming a hero to both Korea and the United States is not right. In fact, I think Koreans are going to come down hard on the wackos.
In the last few years much of the political debate in the US about the issues of war and peace, life and death, have centered around one’s “personal standing”, (as though these weren’t issues of vital importance to every voter, regardless of whether or not such voters had some sort of personal stake in the issue).
The current orchestrated use of Cindy Sheehan (mother of a dead soldier killed in Iraq) in a remorseless moral attack on President Bush comes to mind. Also the US presidential contest (in which Kerry tried to use his Vietnam veteran status as a weapon against Bush and the other non-Vietnam vet non-military service Republicans such as Cheney).
I’ve been flamed myself by the former Korea blogger Kimchipig (a Canadian) since I’m not currently carrying a rifle in Iraq, yet support our efforts there.
So — it’s worth noting here that Congressman Hyde of Illinois is a WWII veteran, a Navy officer who served in New Guinea and the Phillippines from Oct 44 to the end of the war. This was MacArthur’s theater of operations, so he can justifiably say to the Koreans that he served under MacArthur as well.
Marmot, I disagree with you about the idea of such a letter to the Korean government from Congressmen, particularly from one with such standing. The offer in the Congressional letter to accept the statue in the US hits exactly the right note.
I do agree with you that it is ill-mannered to threaten in the letter in any way. If it had been me I would have instead added an offer for a private US fund-raising drive to purchase the statue, if the Koreans ever decided they didn’t want it to remain standing.
Hopefully such an offer would awaken a certain sense of shame among responsible Korean government officials. Lord knows the Koreans don’t hesitate to try to use shame as a political weapon against Americans; “turnabout is fair play”, as the saying goes.
I think it is obvious why these congressmen made such a statement. They were offended by certain agitators wrongfully calling an American general a “war crimminal” and by the equivocating behaviour of the current leadership in Korea regarding this and other incidents. Such a label as “war crimminal” is what one would use of certain killers from pre-war Japan, Nazi Germany, etc. Such a label would be deeply offensive to those that honor the principles that America was founded upon.
No, it is not wise to meddle in the affairs of another nations domestic issues but slander is slander.
DDA - I’m glad someone did it. Makes me feel better about my own grammar incident on Oranckay’s site.
Thanks, DDA. I frequently make the two mistakes you mentioned.
Ref: #9 and “Freedom fries”:
In fact we are too “classy” for pettiness here in the USA, pal. The Congressional “name change” was pretty much laughed by most people as being exceptionally.
Nobody at any drive-in or restaurant anywhere in “Averagetown” USA is calling them “freedom fries” — it’s still French fries.
For sure you won’t find any demonstrations by Americans marching in anger over “French fries”. And sales of Korean cars in the USA are doing just fine (and will continue to do so, regardless of what happens with MacArthur’s statue, as long as such cars remain products of reasonably good quality).
I’m pretty sure that the US sales of French-made cars (Citroen and Peaugot) were suspended years ago. But that’s because they were lousy cars that wouldn’t sell — not because they were boycotted due to politics.
Marmot: This was delivered to me by mistake:
NOTICE TO CEASE AND DESIST
Actually, considering your views on what constitutes interference in the domestic affiars of another country, I’m surprised you haven’t voluntarily cleared out of Dodge already .
Also, a historical note and comment, reference the “Lafayette” analogy:
I mentioned before in another thread that Lafayette made a triumphal tour of the US by stagecoach, I think in the 1820’s or 1830’s. He was feasted and feted for months.
There are statues of him out in the hinterlands of the USA, not just a portrait in a few places in official Washington. Everytime you encounter a city or town in the US named “Lafayette” or “Fayetteville” (I think there may be dozens), that’s who it’s named for.
So I disagree with your (implied) disapproval of the comparsion made by the Congressmen.
Marmot: This was delivered to me by mistake:
NOTICE TO CEASE AND DESIST
Dated: Set. 19, 2005 at Seoul
From: The Ministry of Cmmunications of the Daehan Minjok
To: THE MARMOT
We have been studying the matter of your blog, The Marmot’s Hole, for some time. As a result of prolonged, sincere and deep reflection on this matter, befitting Confusionist worthies such as ourselves, we have determined that your sponsorship of this forum is regrettable.
Your facilitation and promotion of the expression and dissemination by foreigners of information and foreigner opinions that are offensive to the true-bone sensibility of das Volk — err, our people, which has been carefully nurtured in the soil of our ancestors for 5000 years to create the pure Korean “minjok”, is intolerable.
It is inevitable therefore that we order you to close down this affront to our dignity forthwith.
Your failure to do so will result in the immediate blockage by all Korean telecommunications providers of all access to your site, even if that means completely shutting down the interoperability of Korea?s domestic internet facilities with those of the world-wide web, so that we can go back to gazing at our navels on our own minjok intranet and placidly picking our toes in the rice paddies.
If you still persist, we shall sent you packing to the land of your wife?s ancestors on the back of a Jeju pony, which should have no trouble finding the way to its own genetic stomping grounds without difficulty.
Yours, etc.
Actually, considering your views on what constitutes interference in the domestic affiars of another country, I?m surprised you haven?t voluntarily cleared out of Dodge already
I agree with Baduk and Gbevers. Force is only what Koreans understand and respect. The US has up to now, only been showing accomodations. Koreans take that as weakness. What took the Congress this long to speak up and let their displeasures know is beyond me. It’s time to give some strength and a shot to the arm to the conservatives and pro-Americans in Korea who day by day are shrinking in numbers by showing what kind of morons the current ruling camp reailly is. It’s not too late.
We all must remember Marmot’s bosses are Koreans. He’s not anonymous and so he has to take a middle road.
Spewer — Cute, and I particularly liked the part about the Jeju pony, although Mongolians tend to get upset if you call their ponies “ponies.” That being said, I’m sure you realize the difference between the Marmot, in his capacity as a private citizen, mouthing off about Big Mac, and five members of the House Committee on International Relations — including its chair — writing a strongly-worded letter to President Roh expressing their opinion on Big Mac.
Marmot:
Point taken about the ponies. I’m taking an intensive uni Korean class, in which three of my fellow-travelers are daughters of the Khan. The other day we had an exercise involving various countries around the world as identified on map. You guessed it; Mongolia had disappeared inside the borders of China! The Hordettes were not amused, especially since the three Chinese guys across the table seemed a little less than embarrassed about it. At least there wasn’t a Tibetan, especially one from Kham, in the room. On the other hand, I’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of knowing the dates for a lot of the more important khans and for knwoing enough Tibetan to intrigue them with a familiarity with the Mongolian strain of Tibetan buddhism.
As for the distinction between you and Senator Hyde et al., sure; but it’s a distinction without a difference (as far as the issue at hand goes ;)), because the Congressmen’s letter is just an expression of their opinion. And they are as entitled to call Korea/Roh on their inanities as the Great Pretender and the Roh Nothings are to criticize the US. Their rhetoric also is refreshingly frank in contrast to the sickingly hypocritical emissions of Roh and the intellectually dishonest rants of the “progressives”.
I am in agreement with Bevers on this one. It is one of the rare times where Marmot has jumped far off base - to me.
It is exactly the kind of thing you hear Koreans say when trying to defend Korea’s culture of anti-US thought when they get called up on it. “It’s none of your concern, because you are not Korean. Don’t interfere in our domestic affairs.”
What is the difference between members of Congress expressing regret and indignation over the attacks on the statue than expressing concern over hundreds of thousands of Koreans taking part in massive anti-US demonstrations in Decemeber of 2002 when they rip massive US flags to shreds? Or, how about the Bin Laden commercial where the terrorists couldn’t fly the plane into the world trade center because they didn’t have Korean technology? Or, the pro-bin laden (strike at American pride) songs downloaded all over the Pusan area?
I personally don’t care about the statue or the ripping of flags. They are symbols. What is more important is what they symbolize and what the attacks represent.
If I were in Congress, I’d express more concern about the violent protests at Pyongtaek -
But, I certainly wouldn’t tell Congress they should butt out of Korean affairs over the statue protest letter.
What I mean is, the statue is as symbolic of the current US-SK alliance as it is of the US involvment in the Korean War. In fact, this isn’t usually something I tend to say, because it focusing too much on ancient history, but technically, the US is still helping to fight the Korean War. It has never come to an end.
And with tens of thousands of US soldiers in Korea in a position they could easily be slaughtered by a sneak attack by North Korea if - say - NK ever decided it was about to collapse and would rather go for broke than open the flood gates to the outside world, and with hundreds of thousands of American servicemen slated to join into such a war if it breaks out, I think our Congress should pay attention to the levels of anti-US agitation taking place in Korea and express some kind of thought about it both to the American people and Koreans.
I think we all take the risks in Korea too lightly. We might say from time to time that US soldiers are in Korea prepared to fight and die for it — blah blah blah
Hey Marmot, I just noticed the new banner. They really are going to come after you now. How dare you? It’s Dangun’s Hole, the source of the 5000 year old pure bloodline of Korea. It’s their hole. Keep it up boy and they are going to have us all wearing little clothe badges of the pyramid from a dollar bill with a big blue eye in the middle - even if your eyes are brown.
I think we all take the risks in Korea too lightly. We might say from time to time that US soldiers are in Korea prepared to fight and die for it ? blah blah blah ? because blah blah blah is how we generally feel about it. War hasn?t come for 50 years, so we almost take it for granted it will never come as much as Koreans do.
Whether it comes or not, those soldiers are still here to fight and die for Korea - whether they like it or not.
Americans have a HUGE stake in what goes on in Korea.
…[W]e definately (sic) have a national interest in [the US-Korea alliance].
And what the hell for?
If American soldiers were not stationed here in Korea, would it still be safe to say that Americans have a huge (excuse me, HUGE) stake in what goes on in Korea? Or, put another way, in the autumn of 2005 is there any other rationale for the so-called “alliance” (read: protectorate) other than “It is so, because it has always been so”? What other common national interests and values are shared between the United States and Korea?
Let’s see: Both are “free market” economies, except that Korea has free access to American markets while American companies’ access to Korean markets remains highly restricted. Both are democracies, except that Korea’s democratic polity seems to revel in anti-American outbursts and thinly-veiled contempt for the Yankee.
Is it shared language? No. Shared culture? No. A common world view and sense of shared destiny? Let’s see — nope, not really, in fact a savvy observer would note that a majority of Koreans consider it inevitable and in fact essential to turn away from the haughty Yank. Their issue is one of timing. When is it best for Korea to finally spit in the eye of the United States?
The truth is, Korea is decidedly not a friend of America. America is Korea’s friend, but for no good reason — just “because”. Unfortunately, Koreans, being an isolated and friendless people otherwise, don’t really have the ability to recognize what state-to-state friendship looks like.
(A challenge: Name one other “friend” Korea has, from among the states whose professions of friendship could actually translate to action to help the putative friend. Guatemala doesn’t count. Is France Korea’s friend? Do the Germans care about Korea? If North Korea came south, would Russia be here to aid Seoul? In a disaster, is Britain going to mobilize its resources to aid Korea?)
In sum, the “alliance” is bunk. America is not protecting a friend, it’s merely subsidizing a wealthy, ungracious freeloader — and one which has the gall to look down on America for the privilege. And doing so simply because 60 years ago Japan was defeated and Korea was in Japan’s junk locker.
Australia, Britain and Canada, these are America’s relations and closest friends. Germany and Japan, also friends. We have a bond with France thanks to Lafayette and it would be hard to imagine the United States ever being able to walk away from France. And thanks to language and legal systems I can see India becoming a reliable friend and partner in the future.
But Korea? If not for the “alliance” Korea would be in the category of commercially-important states with which the United States maintains trading relationships, but about which the American public has not much interest at all. Like Brazil, or Argentina, maybe Portugal (except Portugal is in NATO). South Africa. Kazakstan maybe.
Except that without the “alliance” there would be some impetus for Congress to consider exactly why it is that Korea gets the benefit of a free trade agreement with the United States (through America’s open market policies) while keeping Korea’s own markets nearly hermetically sealed against American products…
Sperwer — I actually took that picture half hang-over after a night drinking Chinese white alcohol with a professor and some friends until 3:00 a.m. (and the bus to the lake was at 6:00 a.m.). So as far as I am concerned, I earned the right to use that photo as my banner
#18
In fact we are too ?classy?? for pettiness here in the USA, pal. The Congressional ?name change?? was pretty much laughed by most people as being exceptionally.
Don’t condescend to me with your pal, pal. The congressional committee name change, while largely mocked by the rest of the U.S. population, still occurred. Showing that there are members of our population, high-ranking members even, which have less control over their emotions than children. An example that clearly contradicts #1’s comment that:
Yes, but we?re way too classy for that. Our public officials are NOT the ones calling allied heads of states names (Canada, anyone?).
I’m sure with enough research one could even find examples of government representatives calling allied heads of state names. I can guarantee without very much effort at all that one can find name calling going on between both parties working for the same government, why not allies supposedly working for the same cause? No matter how you look at it, that kind of behavior is childish and petty. I am not implying that it is a trait expressly inherent in Americans or American government, but that it is a common thread present among human beings everywhere and pretending to have the moral high ground on “classy behavior” is a joke. I understand that one Korean national assembly member spouting nonsense about ethnic purity doesn?t represent Korea as a whole just as I understand that one American congressman with a vendetta against the French doesn?t represent America. But you pretending that neither of them exist just isn’t practical or objective.
Nobody at any drive-in or restaurant anywhere in ?Averagetown?? USA is calling them ?freedom fries?? ? it?s still French fries.
Of course the name of french fries around the country didn’t change. That wasn’t the scope of the action.
..declared that all references to ?french fries?? and ?French toast?? on the menus of the restaurants and snack bars run by the House of Representatives would be removed. House cafeterias were ordered to re-name french fries as ?freedom fries??.
Which if you had fully read the text quoted you would have known.
Brendon, ever thought about sending the above post to all the newspapers in Korea?
More Americans in Korea should speak out on the endorsed rampant anti-Americanism in Korea, not just in forums like this where everyone’s already converted.
Brendon Carr,
The world is changing rapidly these days.
France-German alliance is forming EU and it is a matter of time for Britain to join in in full scale, including political union of all member nations. EU can get big, bigger than the US.
Will they always be fair and friendly toward the US? Hussein had strong ties with France and Germany and that gave him boldness to stand up against the US.
I can imagine a scenario where EU planes attacking the continental US with the help of Aussies and Canadians who are closer to Britain than to us. Not now, but twenty years later. Seeing how China chumming up to EU.
A lot of things can happen in twenty years.
Japan? The Rising Sun.
“in fact a savvy observer would note that a majority of Koreans consider it inevitable and in fact essential to turn away from the haughty Yank.”
I’m glad somebody else puts it that way too….
Everytime I hear the broken record, “The majority of Koreans don’t want US troops to leave” I feel like bashing my head up against the wall with that same exact point….
On the other note, without troops in South Korea, our interests in it would drop about like you said they would. Having so many bodies act as a tripwire is very much something that should be of HUGE interest to American tax payers and voters, but they remain virtually completely ignorant about it.
If we did not have so much blood on the line facing a wacky-terminally ill yet very dangerous enemy in the form of North Korea, I would not care if South Korea’s favorite brand of toilt paper were “The Stars and Stripes.”
They could be France for all I care…..
Which I said cutely for a point. France likes to kick around or toy with France bashing, but it is more a game than anything. Why? Because these days, neither nation really relies on the other for much of anything. We have a working relationship without life and death on the line, so the tension rarely reaches a point that people get serious/emotional about our differences.
If we were not committed to fighting and dieing for Korea if the terminally ill North lashes out, we would have little interest in what the “average” Korean things about the US. (I doubt we’d ever see Korean (for French for that matter) suicide bombers flying into the WTC).
But we do accept those risks 365 days a year…..
with almost complete ignorance about Korea….
Brendon Carr,
Word, brother! I wish you had said that on my blog!
Brendon, ever thought about sending the above post to all the newspapers in Korea? More Americans in Korea should speak out on the endorsed rampant anti-Americanism in Korea, not just in forums like this where everyone?s already converted.
Not really. Writing for the Korea Times and Korea Herald is essentially like masturbating, and writing for Korean papers takes more effort than I want to put in (i.e. it’s hard to write in Korean). Formerly I had a colleague who would “help” me prepare (read, ghost-write) things for Korean papers but he left the firm and I haven’t been able to find another sucker to “help” me.
I firmly believe the “alliance” is dead and needs to be abrogated by the United States. Even if that means conflict for South Korea when Kim Jong Il perceives a power vacuum. And I say that as someone who has ALL of his eggs in the Korea basket.
Now the question is, what kind of US-Korea relationship follows the death of the “alliance”? Will Korea be swallowed up into the Great Leader’s embrace? Will China annex the place? Or will Korea wise up, and realize that maybe it’s better to make nice with Japan and the United States (better hope it’s not too late then) — and build a new alliance, but this time based on a mature approach to Korea’s national interests and an acceptance of responsibilities? Gosh, isn’t that an exciting possibility? Finally, real friendship.
Kimbob,
It is a Quiotic enterprise. Starting in the summer of 2002 and continuing through today, I started sending articles, images, video links, webpage links, as well as my opinion to a dozen or so major US media outlets. When things were getting really ugly in 2002, I was sending 3 or 4 items a day.
And when the 2002 subway attack and GI captivity occured, I thought surely the dam would finally break, and it did not. The press didn’t cover the orgy of hate for another 3 or 4 months.
(I do note that at different times, I also started faxing articles and links to members of Congress — usually the heads of the committees related to foreign affairs. I still fax an occasional item to Henry Hyde, but now I’m thinking I need to pick a couple others, because he seems to be in the choir too)….
Kimbob,
Sorry I misread your post by reading it too quickly. I missed the part about writing to all papers “in Korea.” I took it you meant American papers.
I’ve written a few things that made it into the papers over the years. And I believe it accomplished absolutely nothing beyond making me feel a little special, but they’ll print most anything. And I can’t write in Korean.
shakuhachi loves what’s going on, all this hatred I mean. We can’t let all this go without shakuhachi ratcheting up the noise right - hell let’s get anti-Korean Japanese involved too. I’m sure they’re having a good laugh as well.
I can imagine a scenario where EU planes attacking the continental US with the help of Aussies and Canadians who are closer to Britain than to us. Not now, but twenty years later. Seeing how China chumming up to EU.
The EU is doomed. Britain will leave first, but Eurosclerosis from its heavy-regulatory model is choking the life out of the European continent. The U.S. is a lot richer than Europe and accelerating away from them — US$40,000 per capita in 2004 for the United States, US$26,000 per capita for the European Union (purchasing-power parity). And the American growth rate is about 1.5% greater per year. Think of the power of compound interest.
The Canucks’ perfidy I could expect, but Australia? Never.
Actually the US may have reached the highest point of history at the Iraq campaign. In next several decades, we have to pay for the war. And, rising cost of gasoline..
I feel the US is back in 1970s. VietNam and the oil crisis. The 70s and 80s were pretty grim time, till the computer came along and made mega bucks for us. We may be heading the same road(downhill) from here.
Meanwhile, other countries are getting stronger financially and militarily. EU, China and now Japan. Japan may succeed in making the first commercial robot and we may have to buy “Made-in-Japan” Aibos further draining wealth and stature from the USA.
We may share the dog house with Russia as the has-beens.
We all must remember Marmot?s bosses are Koreans. He?s not anonymous and so he has to take a middle road.
Et tu, Kimbob?
Well, at least no one has called me a “house nigger” in this thread, yet.
Brendon Carr,
The EU will continue on and only get stronger. It will rule the entire earth for seven years, as prophesied in the Bible.
These are rather clear prophesies in the Book:
1)The Jews will come back to homeland. (1945, Israel)
2) The second Roman Empire will rise up. (=the EU)
3) The powerful man will become the ruler of this Roman Empire(the Anti-Christ).
4) The end of all things is very near.
Nobody is 100% sure that the EU is it, but Bible scholars including me are following EU’s every move. And, I do not know where America fits in. By then, the US may become an insignificant player.
Hi Marmot. No offense intended and I would not call you a ‘house nigger’. I just meant that maybe your position require sensitivity due to the fact that your boss maybe reading them. I see nothing wrong with that, and I do understand the sensitive nature. If I’m wrong, then I apologize.
When I heard about this in 1970s, I thought the European union was very unlikely for some time. Maybe for a couple of centuries.
Surprisingly, France and Germany got together and Britain, though reluctantly, joined in. Other “kings”, as they are called in the prophecy, in Europe as well.
Only 30 years later, I am looking at the EU.
The next sign is the rebuilding of the Temple at Jerusalem. When the temple is constructed, it is another major step toward the End.
It will rule the entire earth for seven years, as prophesied in the Bible.
I have read the bible many a time. Are you saying that I missed that part?
We all must remember Marmot?s bosses are Koreans. He?s not anonymous and so he has to take a middle road.
Plus, he wears a hanbok.
If you think I was on or remotely connected to the road that leads to calling you a house niggar, I think you overread my post….
I was also talking about a large and fairly easy to see trend in the Korea-related non-Korean (and non-blogger) community.
Many of us Koreans continue to suffer under the mistaken notion that the rest of the world is “prejudiced” against them. It’s utter nonsence of course but if we continue to expose our idiodic behavior and irrational attitudes to the world it just might happen.
Many of us Koreans continue to suffer under the mistaken notion that the rest of the world is “prejudiced” against us. It’s utter nonsence of course but if we continue to expose our idiodic behavior and irrational attitudes to the world it just might happen.
On a side note to those who believe the Canadians would side with others to attack the US. You neglect 4 key factors:
1) WE earn a nice living off our business with you folks and would be insane to screw that up. Nobody in Canada who has control of any real money would go along with that. As for Europe pushing it on us…it’ll be a “talk to the hand” if there ever was one.
2) WE Canadians talk a lot s**t. Don’t listen to us! A lot of us sound like idiots.
[Personally, it's frustrating being a Canadian. Imagine having to talk with my fellow idiot citizens and then try to convince them about how dumb a lot of what they say is, especially anything related to you guys.]
3) Attack you? With what, I may ask? Rocket propelled frozen bacon? News Flash: WE are an undefended country, just waiting for the Chinese to take us over! Besides, the pathetic excuse for a military we do have (not dising the people manning it, just the irresponsible attitude our government has about national defence) is just too out numbered and out gunned.
4) WE Canadians talk a lot of s**t. I know I already said that, but I cannot emphasize it enough. It’s a side effect from the humongous inferiority complex we have concerning you folks. Just rest assured that some of us are not assholes.
Anyay, I know this isn’t related to the topic but when Baduk brought that up, I nearly choked laughing at the very idea of it. Baduk you are one funny dude.
When my adult classes would start getting carried away with conspiracy theories or too bogged down in geopolitics or they started getting spending too much time taking everything seriously, which only happened every few months at most, I’d take out an article from CNN for class discussion — it was about a group of people in the Seattle area who were raided and arrested by ATF agents.
They were stockpiling some pretty heavy small arms to prepare for the United Nations invasion of the US via Canada…..
Good grief……
Waygugin,
Rocket propelled frozen bacon? Ha, ha, good one. Since we are on the subject, does Canada have Army, Navy, Marines? How many planes AirForce have? Are they under American control?
What is official language? Can a soldier answer in French when addressed by a superior in English? Oui? Non?
Really? Forget about ?Freedom Fries??
Targeting the name of food is VERY different than comparing President Bush to Hitler (as was done by public officials of supposedly allied countries like Germany and Canada).
Attacking “freedom fries” is at best silly. Comparing the head of the state of an allied country (i.e. the US), that liberated Europe from Nazism and communism, to Hitler is scandalous at minimum.
Yet, we Americans, by and large, have not exploded in anger… as we really should.
Well, at least no one has called me a ?house nigger?? in this thread, yet.
Ja, and at least no one is saying you “sound mighty white” whatever that means.
The truth is, Korea is decidedly not a friend of America. America is Korea?s friend, but for no good reason ? just ?because??.
There are no “friends” in international relations. There are only alliances which are based on convergence of interests.
ROK and the US shared a convergence of interests in resisting communist aggression and expansion. While I still think both countries share common interests (managing what threat that remains from North Korea, balancing the rise of China in the region and maintaining free trade in East Asia), it appears that at least the current Korean administration does not think so.
One cannot have an alliance for long when the perception of interests is one-sided.
James
aka Guns and Butter
aka The Asianist
FINALLY!!!!!!
The U.S. is not going to be Korea’s punching bag on this issue. I wish it would have happened earlier (2002) but at least it is happening now.
Funny stuff I read:
“Is it shared language? No. Shared culture? No.”
I see now. I finally understand why US fought against the Weimar Republic. Thank you for a nice history lesson. The Korean proverb is true! Lobsters and Crabs.
“A common world view and sense of shared destiny?”
I understand now. Thank you Brendon, I now see the reason why we have such difficult time being allies with Muslims. Time to break off the pact~
“Australia, Britain and Canada, these are America?s relations and closest friends. Germany and Japan, also friends. We have a bond with France.. And thanks to language and legal systems I can see India becoming a reliable friend…” Let’s see. white, white, white, white, wuah! Yellowman! W00t! white. Wuah, a brownman can one day become a friend! w00t! But I ponder, does Brendon really know anything about India or did he have to just stick an odd one in for fun? Hmmm. Woops, how insenstive of me to play the race card. Let me try over. rich, rich, rich, rich, rich, and rich. Oh! Poor! W00t poor man can become America’s ally one day. Oh how insenstive of me to play the class card. Let me try over. Let X=Country Brenden heard something about. Let Y=Country he knows not much about. Let’s see… X X X X X X… and Y! Y can someday be Brenden’s friend! Ooo Ooo.. We can even do it by Linguistics! Let variable A denote closeness to American English. Where Ao=American English, A1=Queen’s English, A2=Crocodile Dundee…
Thank you Brendon, I have a much better understanding of what kind of person you are. I’m sure you have a much better understanding of the Korean fascist than me, so I’ll have to accept your expertise in the matter.
Oh yeah, again, I want to thank you that such interests such as the desire to live peacefully according to a standard rule of interntaional law is really unimportant. Sometimes my priorities are backwards. But if Shakuhachi agrees with you, I must be wrong.
virtual wonderer,
I enjoyed reading your post. I agree with most of your thoughts, but I like to point out difference:
1) Rho gained the presidency, not because of anti-American sentiment but Lee HoiChang was a part of former military dictatorship. People hate dictatorship and Lee represented all corruption and haughtiness of military generals. He did not send his kids to military, which proved to be too much for average Koreans to swallow.
2)”The fish stinks from the top”: If Rho resigns(this possibility is talked about in the open right now) due to low approval rating(20% and dropping) and new administration comes in, you will see totally different attitudes in MBC and KBS. I am afraid that they may become too pro-America. Things changes overnight in Korea. People know how to align themselves lickety-split.
I don’t know why people like Brendon and Saku love Japan. The Japanese killed their grandfathers and uncles. The Emperor’s Godly Wind destroyed the Pearl Harbor and hundreds died in a damaged ship slowly sinking.
I guess the younger generation, like young punks in Korea, seem to believe that Japan has changed. They also like Sony, Toyota and Nikon. Korean youngsters love NK cheerleaders and the possibility of reunification.
Japan is changing. Japan will rearm by changing the constitution this year. Is this a good news for the US? Maybe for now. I cannot say the same about twenty years later.
The Japanese understand the power. When they see the power shifting from the US to China, they may suddenly switch side. They have no backbone; once they see a stronger power, they will bow. They will follow an Oyabong.
Don’t trust Japan.
Baduk…. I actually like Japan minus Shintaro minus obnoxious vans. I think you are displaying the product of an ancient nationalist education system that ROK inherited from Imperial Japan. For ROK to move forward, Korean kids have to stop wearing that damn prussian korean uniforms (figuratively speaking).
virtual wonderer,
The US doesn’t tens of thousands of troops in the places you find a significant amount of anti-US thought. That tends to make Korea more of a focus.
And with you assault on GB’s reading habits, were you saying he was wrong about something?
It actually is kind of funny, now that you mention it.
You wrote: “It?s as if you visit some Korean BBS and read the parent post ?Yankee Scum?? then you read the replys and skip over all the subject lines with title like ?Go to DPRK, Commie?? thinking, ?oh it resonates with my thought process, don?t need to read.?? And pick the most obnoxious subject lines to read.”
He wrote: “Koreans are not going to think of this as the US butting into Korean affairs because Koreans understand that unjustly slamming a hero to both Korea and the United States is not right. In fact, I think Koreans are going to come down hard on the wackos.”
I don’t think I’ve ever heard the argument that all of this is the fault of Korean conservatives….
“?A common world view and sense of shared destiny???
I understand now. Thank you Brendon, I now see the reason why we have such difficult time being allies with Muslims. Time to break off the pact~”
Damn. Your high horse got up there today!
Are you seriously going to take the position that if Muslims were Christians and democrats and capitalists, it would not lower the chances we’d be at each others throats? That social and historical differences are not a factor in the current struggle between radical Islam and the West?
Were you trying to make any point at all besides attacking people personally? I didn’t really find any sustained point you were after.
“Thank you Brendon, I have a much better understanding of what kind of person you are.”
Like that….
What kind of person is Brendon? I understand you are using a smartassed way to wipe his nose in whatever you are trying to wipe it in, but I guess I’m too much of a dumbass too, because I can’t really get a handle on what substantive points you are trying to make, besides that you want to attack people today.
“Oh yeah, again, I want to thank you that such interests such as the desire to live peacefully according to a standard rule of interntaional law is really unimportant. Sometimes my priorities are backwards.”
Again……what are you trying to say?
How did live peacefully according to a standard rule of international law come into the picture?
Were you drinking when you wrote this?
I suggest the following alternative locations for the statue:
2450 Massachusetts Avenue N.W. Washington, D.C. 20008; or
32 Sejong-no, Jongno-gu, Seoul (inside the side entrance).
all you need to do, breden, is continue writing. your humiliation shines right through. perhaps you should return to aruba u and teach a class called ‘bigotry, you, and the law’.
‘we share lots in common with india…’ breden
yes, we do, like codified discrimination. varna, anyone? how about a katrina to expose the racial divisions?
the singular criteria needed to be america’s friend:
do exactly as the united states says.
Marmot, I appreciate the link, and I respectfully disagree with you when you say that this Congress should not have spoken.
This is not just about views of MacArthur or Incheon, or the feng shui merits of having his statue on the hill. It’s about a violent attack on a symbol of America, deliberately scheduled to take place on 9/11. This could only have been meant as a rhetorical statement of approval of the mass murder of Americans. Not all of the anti-American violence in Korea recently has been rhetorical, as you know, and few of those behind it have met with serious punishment during Roh’s presidency. And while it may lack the same symbolic potency, the hateful malice of 9/11/05 was no less vile than that behind a cross burning. By just how much of a margin did we avert a direct confrontation between these violent thugs and returning American veterans?
Every nation has its lunatic fringe, of course, and it’s a sure sign of a true democracy when all facets of it speak freely. But speech and violence are two very different things, and Roh earns this criticism because he’s agnostic about distinguishing the two by imposing hard time for political violence–regardless of party affiliation. Even Roh’s own party can’t quite figure out what it thinks of the Redvests and their methods. In a week when we’ve seen some extraordinary herrenvolk ideology coming from both Koreas, a senior member of the Uri party actually praised the 9/11/05 thugs for their “deep ethnic purity.” Last I’ve heard, no one has stripped him of his leadership post or expelled him from the party. I’m sure no one will seriously consider either idea.
As we have seen all too often, Roh is a weak man who instinctively aims for the middle ground between opposing views, almost without regard for the objective merits of each side’s view. We have seen North Korea play this insight brilliantly during the six-party talks. Congress, it seems, has finally figured this out. It perceives Roh’s blindness to the excess of young left-wing Koreans, perhaps because they are his electoral base. It realizes that Roh will take the support of the United States for granted unless it shifts the debate by making its demands public. It probably does not mind embarrassing Roh, or sending a message to Korean voters that the alliance is terminable at will.
Finally, consider the likely political consequence of that statue coming down. If it does, future congresses are unlikely to authorize the President to send forces to protect South Korea. Alliances are based on common interests and values. That basis is called into question if Roh not only “balances” between its protectors and its historical overlords, but also triangulates between violent radicalism and democratic tolerance. Congress is telling Roh to do our taxpayers the courtesy of telling us whose side he is on, and acting as if he means it.
virtual wonderer,
Before dismissing me as the product of the Old school, you must see the following events taking place:
1) Japan rearms.
2) The US moves to Australia to escape the coming Japan-China war (or NK-Japan war with China controlling NK?).
3) The Japanese are very smart and practical people.
4) They realize they have been “set up” to fight the Chinese.
5) After a few clashes with China, Japan draws permanent peace treaty with China,or worse forms an alliance like the Axis of yore.
History is funny thing. What is true today probably is not true tommorrow. Who has known that Koreans will turn against the US? Nobody imagined this a decade ago.
‘they (will) realize they’ve been set up to fight the chinese.’ baduk makes predictions about japan
right on the money.
Marmot:
After I first saw the statue of the tomahawk-toting Last Mohican outside the main gate of Camp Mohican, I understood that we were all Cigarstore Whitemen here. That goes whatever one’s actual color is. Shortly after I first arrived, I was accosted by a Korean for my autograph. Puzzled, I asked him who he thought I was. He said I was that famous boxer — Marvin Hagler. Just goes o show how far you can get with a shaved head. Needless to say. I’m a blue-eyed devil. Gives new meaning to the phrase “they all look alike”. I guess we do when viewed through the myopic eyes of 5000 years of true bone, true blood racial purity.
Brendon:
Right back at ya - When are YOU going to tell us what you really think? You name the venue. Drinks are on me. Then we can go pollute the gene pool, more than we have already.
“If it does, future congresses are unlikely to authorize the President to send forces to protect South Korea. Alliances are based on common interests and values.”
As long as we have troops in country acting as a tripwire, if the North attacks, Congress will fund the sending of troops whether they despise it or not….
No Congress would remain alive if they had known US servicemena and women were in harms way, then when harm came, on such a massive scale, decided to undercut the commander and chief’s ability to fight the war brought to those troops.
GI bodybags will guarantee America’s resolve to fight Korean War II.
That is why they have been there up at the DMZ for so long.
Let Y=Country he knows not much about. Let?s see?? X X X X X X?? and Y! Y can someday be Brenden?s friend! Ooo Ooo.. We can even do it by Linguistics! Let variable A denote closeness to American English. Where Ao=American English, A1=Queen?s English, A2=Crocodile Dundee??
In sum, you’re right. The English language, as proxy for the basket of other social technologies introduced by the British Empire (undergirded by the English common law, which is God’s greatest gift to mankind), is today the signal trait to look for when evaluating whether a place is a desirable place to live (i.e., is it a magnet for immigrants?), a dynamic economy, and a country which can be trusted as a friend to America. English is not a pre-requisite to American friendship (Germany and Japan) but it surely helps.
To the extent that India and South Africa develop in the direction of free markets and social liberty for all their people, these two states will join the community of close American friends and allies. White is not the issue (especially not anymore in America, Australia and Britain — who’s white anymore?), culture is.
As for returning to Aruba U, let’s agree that such is the master plan — minus the course load.
USK=
I’m not here to try to whitewash hanchongryun madness. But when I read this post, Marmot wrote that he thought perhaps, (and this is how interpreted what he meant) that perhaps writing a letter to Roh is like feeding the troll of hanchongryun madness. To which GBevers replied that perhaps Marmot’s view on this is more-or-less colored by his political persuasion, because he made the error of going against his(GB) desire to rebuke this insanity. (yes, this is strictly my exegisis of the events pertaining to, so I could be far off, but it certainly don’t seem so at the moment)
To which I decided to nickpick at GB, espeically because he decided to make the blanket point that Koreans do not reflect upon anti-americanism, a point, which you also seem to agree with GB, and have rejected my appeal to better senses—namely, that had GB decided to use his Korean language skills net-surfing, he would have picked up on the thousand and one “stfu bbalchisan” posts that I see on Yahoo.co.kr or any other news blogs with comments on it, including but not limited to Pressian and OhMy. And moreover, I decided to go over the wisdom of taking this to the “international court of opinion” because, quite frankly, the uneducated people of the world would not come to the conclusion, “These hanchongryun kids are crazy” They would come to the conclusion, “here is another proof that the whitemen exploits others.” Please mind you, that this is not my personal opinion, even though, I know that you have already attributed this quality to me, because I have decided to flame someone who’s ideas echoes with your own–namely that Korea has committed sins against the valiant/heroic men.
You make a good point, and I did let my emotion take ahold of me, and for this, yes, I am completely, humiliated. “?Koreans are not going to think of this as the US butting into Korean affairs because Koreans understand…”
This was the last paragraph and I frankly did not read that far. So I was crass and stupid. But I do think, that for someone who thinks that I do wonder had he seen what I’ve seeon on the net pertaining to Hanchongryun kids for the past 10 years. And I do wonder what he means by “Come down on them.”
“I don?t think Ive ever heard the argument that all of this is the fault of Korean conservatives??.” And that is exactly my problem on this board. People can correctly point out the relationship between Roh and Anti-Americanism. If Chun Doo Hwan was in power and he decided to quash this by the use of water torture on stupid kids, I really wonder if GB would stand up and say Koreans must learn about democracy or rule of law. Or I wonder if he would say, “US must not interfere with Korea’s internal politics.”
In fact, I wonder what you have to say about it.
“Are you seriously going to take the position that if Muslims were Christians and democrats and capitalists, it would not lower the chances we?d be at each others throats? That social and historical differences are not a factor in the current struggle between radical Islam and the West?” That’s my exact point and that’s exactly the problem I was getting at. The entire world is full of people who have different ideas/cultures/religions. Brenden Carr seems to imply that it’s in America’s best interest to make allies only with nations that reflects his own graven image. Essentially “screw people who are colored.” And I am somewhat disappointed that you may hold a similiar parochial view as he does, since I always thought you may be conservative, but your conservatism does have a, and i say this completely honestly that, good’ ol’ american values.
I wrote,
?Oh yeah, again, I want to thank you that such interests such as the desire to live peacefully according to a standard rule of interntaional law is really unimportant. Sometimes my priorities are backwards.??
you wrote,
“Again????what are you trying to say?”
Brenden carr gave us a list of reasons why Korea should not be considered an ally and moreover how there is a lack of common interest between US and Korea. The list he gave, and i’m sorry if you failed to understand what I was getting at, is that all his “allies” are exactly countries that in his own mind, have the same values/culture/religion as he does. And if I was being too subtle, I’ll just spell it out. I was accusing Brenden Carr of racism, ethnocentrism, bigotry, etc etc. And I hope, I’m wrong, but I was thinking that your defense of Brenden Carr was due to your similiar values. Or perhaps, I hope, that you were equally frustrated at Hanchongryun Korean Madness and decided to cast your lots with Brenden for this sole reason.
BTW, Breden Carr seems to echoe the common Republican theme that if America can’t find people like her, she should just go alone. I’m not against unilaterism. I’m not even against the idea that US break off alliance with ROK. But I was just making the point that alliance/partnership, whatever, makes the world a better place for all. Unfortunately for United States, problems like nuclear proliferation won’t just go away and hide underneath her bed if US policy makers decided to heed his wise advice. And that is unfair that America often winds up paying for it alone and is infact underappreciated(to put it mildly). But I do not appreciate US conservatives who fail to distinguish between friend and foe. And moreover, I was alluding to the fact that his kind of mentality is exactly what is creating rifts with his so-called “real allies.”
Brenden Carr wrote in a previous post more-or-less that the sacrifices of Korean Marines in Vietnam is worthless, because they did it for the money. Park Chung Hee may have done it for the money, but I wonder how many of those combat veterans he really talked to? I wonder if he even realizes that they are the same exact group of gung=ho “i-love-america” people you see protecting the statue. but I digress, because it’s obvious that these group of gentlement should be villified on the same basis as the Hanchongryun kids, because of their shared ethnic makeup.
Ahh, you are right. I’m just an idiot. I’ll just shut up now. I didn’t realize I was a communist.
Calling Marmot a house nigger is ludicrous, and that’s saying a lot about an epithet that was ludicrous enough in its original context. If Marmot were not so good at tossing up softballs for the entire IKK and the rest of the bash-osphere to smack around, the rest of the IKK would have to deal with spam and commenters. It’s a thankless job, but it takes a Marmot to do it! But more substantively, and with respect to the Marmot, I, like Joshua, disagree with his realist prerspective on the Korean peninsula. What Marmot argues would not be an issue (because is it our concern, after all?), if his perspective did not mirror academic and political trends among opinion-leaders on this issue. The problem is, that for South Korean politicians, American politicians, and for Marmot, it’s important to argue, that South Korea is a sovereign country, and not a proxy. But, progressives, and other individuals who don’t have anything but a pretension to a thought, attacking the legitimacy of the ROK is essential, to convince the undecided that a unified coomunist Korean state is legitimate.
Does the US Congress have a stake in the MacArthur Statue debate? If The US Congress wants to support the legitimacy of the ROK, then perhaps it’s best not to draw attention to their footprints. But as the country who historically is the ROK’s patron, there really is no choice but to continue to support it. It’s debatable whether the US has any authority to offer Korea other than military bluster. It’s debatable if there’s any non-American in the world willing to give America any ideological kudos. Obviously, though, Congress wants to beleive America is a brand worth selling, and that it can beat Pyongyang’s. Whether Koreans will buy the American line is another matter. The deeper issue is: can the ROK survive without American support?
I’m amazed how few people in English use the title, South Korea. Younger South Koreans certainly do not. Even rarer and less recognizable is the title, ROK. People generally just use Korea and Korean. There is just a serious dearth of national consciousness in South Korea. I blame the educational establishment first and foremost. Aside from the issue of competence in a