You’ll remember “Fucking USA” singer Park Seong-hwan recently did a song calling Gen. Douglas MacArthur a murderer and accusing him of ordering atrocities during the Korean War. In the song, he does a bit of narration:
Between verses two and three, Park adds his own narration. “Seize Seoul. There are girls and ladies there. For three days, Seoul will be yours — UN Commander Douglas MacArthur, September 1950.” Park says historical records confirm that this is an authentic quote by the maverick commander.
Well, this sparked OhMyNews’ Son Byeong-gwan’s curiousity, namely as to where the quote came from. So he called up the singer, who told him he got the quote from a June 25 op-ed by Jang Chang-hun, a researcher with a center attached to a particular left-wing civic group. Son then calls up Jang, who says he found the quote via an Internet search when he was writing a 2002 report, and while he couldn’t remember the source exactly, he believed it to be Sungkonghoe University professor Han Hong-gu. Hong, however, denies ever saying such a thing, even though he was quick to note that in his view, MacArthur isn’t the kind of person you should build a statue to (one might wonder about Han’s thoughts on a Kim Il-sung statue, though). He also noted that he didn’t know if Big Mac ever directly ordered atrocities, although his subordinates might have.
So Son asked Park Se-gil, the writer of “Rewriting Modern Korean History,” where the MacArthur quote might have come from. Park answered that one could guess he might have said something like that because there were materials related to it, but he didn’t know the exact source.
This didn’t satisfy Son, or another university professor familiar with modern Korean history (who chose to remain nameless, I guess lest his commie friends give him grief during faculty drinking parties) that it was nonsense that MacArthur ordered the massacre of civilians, and that he was concerned about some of the claims that were currently being pushed that were not grounded in fact.
Anyway, to make a long story short, Son concluded in his first piece that one could not, as of around noon Friday, say that Park’s song was based on objective fact. About this, the singer said, “Because we aren’t scholars… we’re going to have to look a little more for material [to prove the lyrics].”
Later on Friday afternoon, however, Son got his answer. Jang Chang-hun wrote OhMyNews to tell them that he had found the source of the quote — a North Korean history book that had been translated by pro-North Korean scholars in Japan in 1972 and retranslated into Korean in South Korea in 1991. Jang noted, however, that the book did not attibute sources, either, and said:
“One could easily dismiss it as groundless North Korean propaganda and fabrications… But one cannot conclude that the statements are ‘groundless’ or ‘fabricated’ just because concrete sources for MacArthur’s comments aren’t clarified.”
This was followed perhaps by the biggest understatement I’ve seen in OhMyNews:
Sphere: Related Content??????????????? ???????? ???????????????? ??????????????? ???????????? ????????????????? ???? ????????????? ????????? ??????????? ??????????????????? ??????????????? ???????????????????? ?????????? ???????????? ???????.
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Well of course they can’t just dismiss the quote just because the original North Korean source cannot provide any documentation, verification, or background on it. Also it would be prejudicial (and even racist and/or imperialist, for non-Koreans) to doubt the source as perhaps being ??groundless? or a ??fabrication? just because North Korea is perhaps the most prolific producer of propaganda in the 20th/21st centuries. How dare anyone suggest it? And since when should things like ??facts,? ??objectivity,? and ??documentation? get in the way of leftist/revisionist historians?
Isn’t MacArthur well-known for severely punishing U.S. occupation troops in Japan who harmed Japanese? Oh well, I suppose such a fact would just play into Korean beliefs of his evilness.
For a people who love to spend their time claiming that the rest of the world “distorts history”, Koreans have some nerve coming up with such nonsense. Some nerve, indeed.
Come to think of it, the more I read on this blog, the more I wish that the U.S. would allow unification of Korea under the rule of the North. Except that we would just be blamed again…
I can get into a dark mood if I get too deep into all the anti-American nonsense that passes for ‘common sense’ in most of South Korea (to the point where ‘moderate’ profs can’t use their name). BUT, a good amount of South Koreans are also NOT anti-American. If things don’t change, however, in 30-40 years most of the pro-US Koreans will have passed away. Who knows what the situation will be like then… anyway, some anti-DPRK/pro-US Koreans here.
In contrast to the rest of the world, where the elderly tend to be conservative and the youth progressive, Korea swims against the tide.
It is my educated guess that a fair amount of the production of quality material is aided by the North.
Things like :
http://www.usinkorea.org/videos/kiddy_song.wmv
http://www.usinkorea.org/videos/kiddy_song_II.wmv
http://www.usinkorea.org/videos/new/urinara.wma
http://www.usinkorea.org/video.....t_song.htm
The songs in late 2001-early 2002 that tens of thousands of Korean school kids in the southern half of South Korea had downloaded :
With lyrics like - “Osama bin Laden, the man I respect the most in the world / President Bush, the man I despise the most / I’m going to terrorize the 63 Building by blowing it up with an atomic bomb,” the bin Laden chant is supposedly sung to the tune of either a children’s song or a cartoon song.
and possibly funding and help for things like
http://www.usinkorea.org/video.....merica.wmv
If you can check out the NK sites set up through the connections in Japan, a lot of the stuff is similar and sometimes even the same.
This was followed perhaps by the biggest understatement I?ve seen in OhMyNews:
?·Έ??Ό?????? ?Ά??? ??????€??΄ ?Ά??????? ????³΄??Ό ?°????Ό?‘ ?? ?²½??°?° ?§??Έ° ????Έ??? ??????‘????? ?????°??±??΄ ??¨??΄?§???€?? ?§?????? ?§?§?Ή? ?????€.
Dude why not translate that? Here’s a quick hack job….
“Nevertheless, people have pointed out, to a significant degree, that North Korean historical materials lack credibility because in many cases they are based on inaccurate information.”
Hm…
“Nevertheless, there are significant accusations that North Korean historical materials lack credibility because in many cases they are based on inaccurate information.”
Anyways…
Now this has got to be the funniest story I’ve seen in a very long time. (It will quickly be forgotten of course - by those who hate Ohmy!)
Ahh ok, I will give credit to where credit is due. Kudos to OhMy. Now, let me go into my underground bunker, because the sky is falling.
Dogbert you wrote, “elderly tend to be conservative and the youth progressive” I don’t think you can say that the elderly are hardly progressive. And moreover, if you take your eyes off the peninsula for a minute and zoomed in elsewhere, you may discover, that Korea may not be a contrarian, but rather part of a herd.
My guess is that these left-wing scholars have studied closely American sources on MacArthur’s life and have decided to make some “extrapolations” (perhaps assisted by North Koreans, perhaps not; I’m sure they are smart enough to think of some things on their own).
I can remember one remark supposedly made by MacArthur and quoted by his biographer Manchester. During the occupation of Japan, MacArthur was being driven in his car with somebody else and they passed an American GI and a Japanese girl engaged in a clinch in a doorway or on the street (ie clearly being lovers, not a rape).
MacArthur was quoted as turning to his passenger and saying something like “You can’t stop that sort of thing and I’m not going to issue orders that are essentially unenforceable.” (A paraphrase from memory; I don’t have my copy with me).
Quoted by the author as part of a passage explaining “fraternization” policy, in one of the extensive chapters on MacArthur’s period as commander of the US occupation of Japan.
So, my guess: these scholars read something like that, put it together with the widespread Korean common perception of US GI conduct in Korea (that I have read about here), and decide to do a little historical “extrapolation” with such a comment as their “baseline”.
After all, what’s a little “inventiveness” with quotes, if you firmly believe that what the invented quote represents is the essential truth anyway?
They may also be “extrapolating” from the Japanese occupation period and the “comfort” women issue. The Americans and the Japanese are now friends, so why not attribute some repugnant Imperial occupation policies to the Americans as well?
Speculation on my part, but I’d be willing to bet at least a few “won” on it.
I hate the idea of Ohmynews. The direction they seem bent on leaning politically only adds some icing and a cherry to the top….
http://joongangdaily.joins.com.....09013.html
I remember seeing that alleged Macarthur quote many years ago, clearly attributed as North Korean or Chinese wartime propaganda.
My grandmother was hiding in Seoul at the time with six kids: five daughters and a son. She was terrified — not of horny Marines bent on defiling her precious daughters, but of North Korean press gangs that had already carried off much of Seoul’s able-bodied male population.
Dear God PLEASE, just once, before he dies, PLEASE let Mick Jagger perform Some Girls at Jamshil.
Why is there even a debate on this quote? It is obviously fabricated or a mistranslation. Here is the Korean and my translation:
“????Έ??? ????·¨?????Ό. ?·Έ ?³³????? ????°?¨??? ?Ά??Έ??? ?????€. 3??Ό ????? ????Έ?? ????°??? ?²??Ό?‘ ??? ?²???΄??€.”
“Take Seoul. There are girls and wives there. For three days, Seoul will be yours.”
MacArthur was not Ghenghis Khan, and his soldiers were not mercenaries motivated by rape and pillage. If MacArthur had made any similar statement to motivate his troops, it would have been this:
“Take Seoul. There are women and wives there (who need protecting). In three days, Seoul will be yours.”
If MacArthur did say what I suggested above, then that would mean the Korean translator mistranslated “in three days” by changing it to “for three days.” The mistranslation could have been an accident or intentional, but my Korean students frequently mistranslate “in.” One Korean dictionary definition of “in” is “????????,” which can mean, “for (a period of time).”
Gbevers, what debate are you talking about? As far as I can tell, almost no one takes that translation or mistranslation seriously other than those who want to take down the statue. It’s now well known, that quote allegedly said by MacArthur came from North Korea, and that the Communist groups in the South have started using them to propagate their anti-American views. Debate? What debate?
Dogbert you wrote, ?elderly tend to be conservative and the youth progressive?? I don?t think you can say that the elderly are hardly progressive. And moreover, if you take your eyes off the peninsula for a minute and zoomed in elsewhere, you may discover, that Korea may not be a contrarian, but rather part of a herd.
Korean youth are likely some of the least “progressive” around.
With friends like these………..
Sometimes when we consider an issue up close, like is done on this forum, we can lose sight of certain facts that need to be looked at with a wider angle lense.
The facts are that South Koreans , for reasons ranging from they are Nork puppets all the way to they are so naive that they think the Norks are their “wayward brothers,” have created a culture of Anti-americanism. This will continue for as long as the status quo is maintained. However, if the States were to detangle itself from its racist unappreciative “ally,” then the US could compete with SK on a equal footing, just like lots of the civic groups want. To do this it would just be a matter of the US withdrawing from SK. THis would help for three reasons. It would civilize and mature US-SK relations as Koreans would no longer get to show the US the middle finger with one hand, while taking NINE BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR TO MAINTAIN USFK with the other. It would also allow the opening of the Korean market to US businesses because the whole you have troops in our country so give us benefits wouldn’t work anymore. It would also allow the US to make a pre-emptive attack on NK with little fear that it could be targeted in retaliation.
Sounds to me like a way to get both NK and SK to watch what they say and do.
However, with the U.S. military officially out of South Korea, there is no way for the U.S. to keep a damper on the development by South Korea of nuclear weapons and the long-range missiles to deliver them. For that reason alone, the U.S. military presence must stay.
[EDITORIALS]Cockeyed nationalism
http://joongangdaily.joins.com.....09011.html
Does anyone know of a good website to find these protest songs and with lyrics?