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	<title>Comments on: Battle of Incheon?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun,  7 Sep 2008 07:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Curious  (a.k.a. Sewing)</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/#comment-23243</link>
		<dc:creator>Curious  (a.k.a. Sewing)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2002#comment-23243</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, interesting that they would change your choice of words....hopefully, they didn't edit your article in any more substantial ways?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, interesting that they would change your choice of words&#8230;.hopefully, they didn&#8217;t edit your article in any more substantial ways?</p>
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		<title>By: june</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/#comment-23242</link>
		<dc:creator>june</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2002#comment-23242</guid>
		<description>I wrote the piece, but I didn't use the word ???????¨, which I don't know what it is. I used ??????? in my original draft. #29 explains very well to me (thanks Curious!).  

Since my Korean isn't perfect either, the editor always polishs it for the final draft. There's also the editorial direction that they have to follow. It seems to me that the editors prefer Korean word to foreign originated words. 

I also thought that netizen is a Korean neologism, but according to foreigner's reference it may not be. 

Personally, I prefer the word ???????!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote the piece, but I didn&#8217;t use the word ???????¨, which I don&#8217;t know what it is. I used ??????? in my original draft. #29 explains very well to me (thanks Curious!).  </p>
<p>Since my Korean isn&#8217;t perfect either, the editor always polishs it for the final draft. There&#8217;s also the editorial direction that they have to follow. It seems to me that the editors prefer Korean word to foreign originated words. </p>
<p>I also thought that netizen is a Korean neologism, but according to foreigner&#8217;s reference it may not be. </p>
<p>Personally, I prefer the word ???????!</p>
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		<title>By: Curious  (a.k.a. Sewing)</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/#comment-23241</link>
		<dc:creator>Curious  (a.k.a. Sewing)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2002#comment-23241</guid>
		<description>Foreigner:

Ah, okay, I stand corrected.  Although evidently, the term got a lot of play in Korea.  I wasn't sure if June wrote that article or not, but evidently she did (?).  I guess it's her choice whether to use ???????¨ or not...if the term is gaining currency in Korea these days, then perhaps it's the right word to use.

In Naver, under the ??????? category, ???????¨ is getting 34,811 hits, versus ???????'s 1,957,212.  So it's still got a way to go....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Foreigner:</p>
<p>Ah, okay, I stand corrected.  Although evidently, the term got a lot of play in Korea.  I wasn&#8217;t sure if June wrote that article or not, but evidently she did (?).  I guess it&#8217;s her choice whether to use ???????¨ or not&#8230;if the term is gaining currency in Korea these days, then perhaps it&#8217;s the right word to use.</p>
<p>In Naver, under the ??????? category, ???????¨ is getting 34,811 hits, versus ???????&#8217;s 1,957,212.  So it&#8217;s still got a way to go&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: virtual wonderer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/#comment-23240</link>
		<dc:creator>virtual wonderer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2002#comment-23240</guid>
		<description>june, thanx for the link!

new things i learned today. Brenden Carr is a lawyer and Kushibo=95.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>june, thanx for the link!</p>
<p>new things i learned today. Brenden Carr is a lawyer and Kushibo=95.</p>
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		<title>By: foreigner</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/#comment-23239</link>
		<dc:creator>foreigner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2002#comment-23239</guid>
		<description>Definition of "netizen" in Wikipedia, for what that's worth: "The term was formed by Michael Hauben (circa 1992) from the description of the Net.news user [ed. net.citizen]. The term has been used most frequently recently in Korea and China where there are vigorous netizens movements. The election of President Roh Moo-hyun of South Korea in 2002 is widely attributed to the support for him among South Korean netizens."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definition of &#8220;netizen&#8221; in Wikipedia, for what that&#8217;s worth: &#8220;The term was formed by Michael Hauben (circa 1992) from the description of the Net.news user [ed. net.citizen]. The term has been used most frequently recently in Korea and China where there are vigorous netizens movements. The election of President Roh Moo-hyun of South Korea in 2002 is widely attributed to the support for him among South Korean netizens.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: dogbert</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/#comment-23238</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2002#comment-23238</guid>
		<description>Thanks very much Curious.  That was quite interesting.  Like you, I have always thought that "netizen" itself was a Korean neologism in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much Curious.  That was quite interesting.  Like you, I have always thought that &#8220;netizen&#8221; itself was a Korean neologism in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Curious  (a.k.a. Sewing)</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/#comment-23237</link>
		<dc:creator>Curious  (a.k.a. Sewing)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2002#comment-23237</guid>
		<description>I'm taking a break from the to and fro of the Marmot's hole, but I was intrigued by Dogbert's question, so here's the answer.  According to this Naver Q  A page, ???????¨ is an attempt to use a native Korean word in place of ???????.  ?????? is a native word for "world" (the Sino-Korean ?????); -?¨ means a doer or craftsperson (??????¨: woodcutter; ?????¨: gambler; ???????¨: storyteller).  ...So I guess a kind of "world citizen," I suppose.

Before anyone passes judgment on this, there is a long history of attempts not only in Korean but in other languages to replace borrowed words from other languages with native words (not always successful, of course).  There have been attempts over the years to replace Sino-Korean (hanja-derived) words with words of native Korean derivation.  That said, why not just stick with ????????  (Is "netizen" itself from Korean?  I never encountered the word until it got publicized after Roh's election win in 2002.  Or maybe I just wasn't hip to the term....)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m taking a break from the to and fro of the Marmot&#8217;s hole, but I was intrigued by Dogbert&#8217;s question, so here&#8217;s the answer.  According to this Naver Q  A page, ???????¨ is an attempt to use a native Korean word in place of ???????.  ?????? is a native word for &#8220;world&#8221; (the Sino-Korean ?????); -?¨ means a doer or craftsperson (??????¨: woodcutter; ?????¨: gambler; ???????¨: storyteller).  &#8230;So I guess a kind of &#8220;world citizen,&#8221; I suppose.</p>
<p>Before anyone passes judgment on this, there is a long history of attempts not only in Korean but in other languages to replace borrowed words from other languages with native words (not always successful, of course).  There have been attempts over the years to replace Sino-Korean (hanja-derived) words with words of native Korean derivation.  That said, why not just stick with ????????  (Is &#8220;netizen&#8221; itself from Korean?  I never encountered the word until it got publicized after Roh&#8217;s election win in 2002.  Or maybe I just wasn&#8217;t hip to the term&#8230;.)</p>
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		<title>By: dogbert</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/#comment-23236</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2002#comment-23236</guid>
		<description>There is a big debate going on among Koreans about this issue. Anyway, please don??t be surprised if you found your names in this article. 


LOL...I'm there.  I've asked a few Korean native speakers, but no one has yet to tell me what a ???????¨ is.  I'm guessing that's what we keep hearing as "netizen".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a big debate going on among Koreans about this issue. Anyway, please don??t be surprised if you found your names in this article. </p>
<p>LOL&#8230;I&#8217;m there.  I&#8217;ve asked a few Korean native speakers, but no one has yet to tell me what a ???????¨ is.  I&#8217;m guessing that&#8217;s what we keep hearing as &#8220;netizen&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: foreigner</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/#comment-23235</link>
		<dc:creator>foreigner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>USinKorea, it sounds like you and I are about the same when it comes to learning Korean.... Now I understand a little better when you talk about the 50-year-olds and older. They definitely will tell you they appreciate America's role in liberating Korea...then the 40-somethings, they're usually preoccupied with business and family and just think Roh is a pain in the ass and have little use for politics (how's that for sweeping generalization?). People in their 30s, kind of muddled, default "lefty" thinking, but usually doesn't go beyond "Bushie is a bad man." But then, I don't know any hard-core activists here--my friends just want to succeed in life, they've told me essentially that politics is bullshit. Sure there's anti-Americanism here, but mainly the polls reflect anxiety about what the U.S. plans to do with N. Korea, which obviously affects the South, and sentiments of caution or distrust toward the U.S. by Koreans sometimes gets construed as "anti-American" simply because of the way the poll is worded, when the background is more complex. I hope that makes sense....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>USinKorea, it sounds like you and I are about the same when it comes to learning Korean&#8230;. Now I understand a little better when you talk about the 50-year-olds and older. They definitely will tell you they appreciate America&#8217;s role in liberating Korea&#8230;then the 40-somethings, they&#8217;re usually preoccupied with business and family and just think Roh is a pain in the ass and have little use for politics (how&#8217;s that for sweeping generalization?). People in their 30s, kind of muddled, default &#8220;lefty&#8221; thinking, but usually doesn&#8217;t go beyond &#8220;Bushie is a bad man.&#8221; But then, I don&#8217;t know any hard-core activists here&#8211;my friends just want to succeed in life, they&#8217;ve told me essentially that politics is bullshit. Sure there&#8217;s anti-Americanism here, but mainly the polls reflect anxiety about what the U.S. plans to do with N. Korea, which obviously affects the South, and sentiments of caution or distrust toward the U.S. by Koreans sometimes gets construed as &#8220;anti-American&#8221; simply because of the way the poll is worded, when the background is more complex. I hope that makes sense&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: usinkorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/09/12/battle-of-incheon/#comment-23234</link>
		<dc:creator>usinkorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=2002#comment-23234</guid>
		<description>All fair questions.

I stopped teaching in Korea for the most part in early 2000, and I was back in Korea for 2002.  I've also spent a good bit more time concentrating on Korea and studying about it.  My Korean language skills remain my biggest handicap.  I just don't learn languages as well as the average person.  I can't use it well enough to do research.  I have been using more Korean language media articles the last 6 months.

On the site www.usinkorea.org, the majority of my information offered to prove my points come from the mainstream Korean media and the kinds of quotes from politicians and others you mean.

I think the experience teaching adults of different ages was a great source for understanding what was going on in Korea.  Just teaching each day cleared up a lot of questions I would have from personal contacts and from reading and from the press.  To me, it was like having a finger on the pulse of Korean society.  The fact that what I was hearing in class didn't jar drastically with what I was getting from the media seemed to give validity to what I was picking up in classes.

And if you came to the US and spent a few years teaching or working with a lot of different adults, and you watched the network news and read the major newspapers, I don't think you would have little ground for giving a general idea of what American society was about on big ticket issues.

And one big point --- America is a much bigger country with a much more diverse community and geographical spread.

I think what I got to see teaching Koreans matched well with what I've read or seen elsewhere about it.  It might be something more to dig into and explain if my opinions were incredibly different from what the quotes, media, polls, and other such evidence were pointing to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All fair questions.</p>
<p>I stopped teaching in Korea for the most part in early 2000, and I was back in Korea for 2002.  I&#8217;ve also spent a good bit more time concentrating on Korea and studying about it.  My Korean language skills remain my biggest handicap.  I just don&#8217;t learn languages as well as the average person.  I can&#8217;t use it well enough to do research.  I have been using more Korean language media articles the last 6 months.</p>
<p>On the site <a href="http://www.usinkorea.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.usinkorea.org</a>, the majority of my information offered to prove my points come from the mainstream Korean media and the kinds of quotes from politicians and others you mean.</p>
<p>I think the experience teaching adults of different ages was a great source for understanding what was going on in Korea.  Just teaching each day cleared up a lot of questions I would have from personal contacts and from reading and from the press.  To me, it was like having a finger on the pulse of Korean society.  The fact that what I was hearing in class didn&#8217;t jar drastically with what I was getting from the media seemed to give validity to what I was picking up in classes.</p>
<p>And if you came to the US and spent a few years teaching or working with a lot of different adults, and you watched the network news and read the major newspapers, I don&#8217;t think you would have little ground for giving a general idea of what American society was about on big ticket issues.</p>
<p>And one big point &#8212; America is a much bigger country with a much more diverse community and geographical spread.</p>
<p>I think what I got to see teaching Koreans matched well with what I&#8217;ve read or seen elsewhere about it.  It might be something more to dig into and explain if my opinions were incredibly different from what the quotes, media, polls, and other such evidence were pointing to.</p>
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