Well, maybe not be storm, but Korean soaps are apparently developing some following in the U.S. of A., according to the SF Chronicle:
On location at Chung Ang University Hospital, the crew from “Be Strong, Geum-Soon” on the MBC network was filming the latest installment of a hot South Korean export: television dramas. Like the ardent horde at the hospital, millions of fans across Asia began tuning to South Korean soap operas in the late 1990s. Now, the dramas are winning over devotees in the United States.
As Americans flee network television in droves, Korean dramas are grabbing audience share. In the Bay Area, “Dae Jang Geum,” or “Jewel in the Palace,” aired this spring, dubbed in Mandarin on the Chinese-language KTSF. For the finale, more than 100,000 fans tuned in, handing the show higher ratings than ABC’s “Extreme Makeover,” the WB’s “Starlet” or PBS’ “Live From Lincoln Center” in that time slot.
Read on, comrades.
79 Comments
Isn’t there a lot of Asian Americans in the SF area?
The other types of Americans probably see and think these drama’s are little weird. I myself don’t watch American TV other than sports and news. The rest don’t simply interest me. Korean dramas are heavy on the same old tired formula and are crap. But for some reason the good ones are really addictive (I can’t say the same with American TV). Couple of shows I’ve been addicted: Full House, Yi Soon Shin, My Name is Samsoon, and Roof Top Cat.
“Koreans believe in their fabricated story.”
And Japanese don’t believe in any fabricated story. Uh yeah. How ironic.
Continuing on from above, this quote is from the link which should shatter muruneko’s superiority complex:
“We also see that Japanese themselves are more likely to commit real crimes than anybody except the Chinese and the Brazilians (most of which are nikkei, that is Brazilians of Japanese descent). Westerners and Koreans are by far the most peaceful residents in Japan, with an fantastically low crime rate, about 12 to 18 times lower than that of the Japanese.”
http://www.jref.com/society/fo.....apan.shtml
Iron Chef, the Japanese cooking show, was a “Splash”,
but Korean Wave? …in the US? lol
Honestly, I didn’t even know there was a “Korean Wave”. Why people boast of things so ridiculous such as Koreans?
the best way to stay on the original topic is to ignore the clown(s). it is getting bit to far.
“I??m happy that I successfully fished up a Chosun monkey lurking in the USA.”
Who are you calling monkey? There are no more monkeys in the world like Japanese.
I had friends in Philly who got into Korean soaps as a “guilty pleasure” kind of thing. But outside of ethnic communities, I’ve seen no Korean ripple. much less a wave.
North Korea has long claimed that Kim Il-sung and Juche are followed earnestly throughout the world. My university in the early 1980s had 6 feet of shelf space of free books from North Korea.
Your country had been a subjective country ruled by the several Chineses empires before Japan beated the Qing Dynasty China in the Japanese-Sino war in 1905.Japanese textbook innacuracies are worse than I thought: the dates are all mucked up. The First Sino-Japanese War (that’s what it’s called in English, “Sino-Japanese War”; in Japanese I think it’s called “Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere Introductory Phase”), was in 1894 and 1895.
You may be mixing up your dates with the Russo-Japanese War, in 1905, the one where Czarist Russia couldn’t get their shit ships together.
I think in Japanese textbooks that’s referred to as the 1905 White Imperialist Provocation First Phase of Bringing Ch??sen Back to its Japanese Home.
I’m just funning with you, Muruneko. But the Southern Kuril Islands (Etorofu, Kunashiri, and Shikotan, and the Habomai, which were the names of four of my cats) are clearly Russian territory. Along the same lines as Diaoyu (aka Senkaku-shoto), which are obviously China’s or Taiwan’s.
Where does SF Cronicle get such terms like “Korean wave”, unless they’ve been reading too many Korean prints.
Well, there clearly is no “wave” of love for Korean dramas in the US, but the “wave” is undoubtably a asiawide phenomena—especially when you compare the situation to 20 years ago, when even the Korean commercials were just awful.
There is actually a subculture of people in the US who follow Korean dramas with subtitles. Simple google search yields these subculture people, but alas, I’m too lazy to do the work for you.
Well, I don’t know how used to be here because I lived here only three years, but I remember Korean commercials were cool even 15~20 years ago compared to today’s international commercials.
Like the famous Ramen-BJ commercial? When did that come out?
Where there is a sizable Korean community in the states, and an associated TV channel or two, there is often also some interest in Korean dramas among the non-Korean community, more so with Asians. For example, besides LA, there is a small following in the DC area, and a large following in Hawaii (75 percent Asian). Probably the same in NY, Atlanta, etc.
Of course many Koreans include Korean PGA golfers and the actress from ??Lost?? as a part of the wave, and even tout the relationships that American actors have with Koreans, e.g., Nicholas Cage, Wesley Snipes, and Woody Allen (good grief).
But far from a ???wave?? in the U.S., and aside from a few specific areas and certain sub-sets of the population, just a very tiny ripple overall.
actually, korean movies and dramas are becoming very popular among asian americans and american fans of asian cinema in general. i can attest from personal experience that the dramas are especially huge among the older female japanese nisei/sansei populations in california and hawaii.
if you look at the popularity of korean film/tv five years ago, comparatively, its current popularity does seem like a wave. or maybe the beginning of one.
I can’t say much for the dramas…but Korean cinema has been churning out some decent movies in the past several years. At least good enough for me to appreciate it. That’s the only part of the so-called wave I feel.
Just would like to mention “Empress Chung”. I saw the trailer. I don’t know why they make a lot of enthusiasm about that film. Looks like everyday cartoon that pass on tv. Just can’t support that yelling “Paritarawa”.
alright. Here is a link for the subculture:
http://deiner.proboards48.com/
and yes, these people are not asian american. The reasons they give for watching Korean dramas vary, but most of the reason they give is because they are so very different from the usual american TV staples tehy are used to.
Also some of these non-asian korean dramophiles lurk in http://www.koreawiz.com(sp?) or even Darcy Paquet’s most excellent http://www.koreanfilm.org.
wuah! mea culpa. NOT http://www.koreawiz.com.
Dubbed/subtitled Korean soaps have gained quite a following in Vietnamese-American communities as well. I hear from male coworkers whose siblings, girlfriends, etc. got them hooked on the latest Bae Yong Jun vehicle.
“KBS World” did a piece on Chicago-area viewers of “Immortal Yi Soon-shin” a few months ago, interviewing fans (mostly Caucasian) at a party and making them recite lines from the show in awful phonetic Korean. (I’d laugh but my Korean isn’t much better.) IYSS has a 50% viewership rating in my household … my partner watched it every week until he got sick of Park Cheol-min and his shameless mugging.
And on the subject of Woody Allen as part of the Korean Wave … I think Margaret Cho said it all.
the atimes.com (asia times) also has an article about hallyu in today’s edition.
‘koreans want to export their dramas? what crap! nobody will want to watch them!’ expat community on korea’s idea to promote their televison series abroad.
‘yet another failed prediction by those who claim to know.’ nulji
Off topic for another storm, Katarina.
I??m going to donate JPY 10,000 (around USD 90) for the victims and casualties of Katarina in Mississippi, Alabama, and the other southern states in the USA, like I did for them of the Tsunami in Indonesia and the Earthquake in Niigata, Japan. I just feel an obligation to do so, because I know they would help us in case of large natural disasters in Japan.
However, I would donate not a cent for Koreans and Chinese; I really don??t care how many North Koreans die for hungers, or Chinese die in riots or mine corruptions. I??m watching them as if I watch mice are dying in a flask. Also, in case of the re-unification of the Korean peninsula, or un-evitable civil wars in the China mainland, I would cast NO to any election candidate in Japan who is claiming to send money or foods to those countries (or more specifically *areas* in the near future, as I predict). Do not expect any help from Japan only convenient for you.
As you Koreans and Chinese keep a free-hand right to condemn Japan and demand compensations for fabricated issues, I keep my right to vote and decide how to spend my money.
You can call me a racist if you like.
Don’t hate the North Korean people; hate the regime that brainwashes them. If you don’t see the sense in that already, I don’t suppose any amount of logic will do the trick. Good luck with life, you’ll need it (luck, that is).
Calling the bay area home, there are a few aspects of this that I would like to address. First, the TV station that is mentioned is a multi-language format meaning that it will broadcast on average for no more that 2 hours of every day in Korean. Tagalog, Vietnamese, Pakistani, Japanese and of course Chinese have much longer broadcast times. The post says the drama was dubbed into Chinese-lest we forget, San Francisco and the Bay area has one of the most concentrated populations of Chinese people in the US. For anyone that has watched Korean news over the past 4 months, we all know that the Korean wave the Korean media likes to tout has experienced varying degrees of success primarily in Asia. It shouldn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that 100,000 viewers of a Korean drama dubbed in Mandarin does not equate a wave of success and adoration in the US. There are only 200,000 to 250,000 Koreans in the bay area (small compared with LA) and most of those are located in the San Jose area.
What we are seeing here is the Chinese population in the bay area has already heard about Korean dramas from Chinese language sources and decided to watch. That is all-no wave here folks. By the way, I don’t dispute the existance of non-asians/non-native speakers that do enjoy Asian language media (movies/drama) but they are far from mainstream.
“However, I would donate not a cent for Koreans and Chinese; I really don??t care how many North Koreans die for hungers, or Chinese die in riots or mine corruptions. I??m watching them as if I watch mice are dying in a flask. Also, in case of the re-unification of the Korean peninsula, or un-evitable civil wars in the China mainland, I would cast NO to any election candidate in Japan who is claiming to send money or foods to those countries (or more specifically *areas* in the near future, as I predict). Do not expect any help from Japan only convenient for you.”
Look, bitch, who asked your opinion?
YOU, stop make up tour own history. That’s why she say these things.
Back in the ’90s, at least, Japanese dramas shown on that Bay Area station were subtitled in English. It would be great if the Korean shows were as well.
And btw putting my country under the same category with China is a offense. Keep that.
being from the bay area myself, i have to say that james is right. lots of diversity on the channels there, and the one mentioned does have slots for specific ethnic shows. not much of a korean wave in the bay area in anything except a bunch of massage parlors south of the city.
An offense to China, maybe.
Muruneko wrote:As you Koreans and Chinese keep a free-hand right to condemn Japan and demand compensations for fabricated issues, I keep my right to vote and decide how to spend my money.
You can call me a racist if you like.Racist, maybe. Hateful, definitely (especially since you unilaterally interjected this topic into an unrelated conversation).
Hateful thoughts, unless you have some way of determining that earthquake damage, floods, etc., in China and Korea affect only Japan haters themselves?
And are you sure none of those Southern U.S. hurricane victims you’re donating to weren’t also the ones complaining about “the Japs” back in the 1980s, and maybe even spent a buck so they could swing a hammer at an old Toyota (a not-as-uncommon-as-it-should-have-been sight in the 1980s)?
To me, disaster victims are disaster victims. Most of the people I know here in Korea feel the same way, including those who donated money and goods to the Red Cross in the aftermath of the Kobe quake.
Hey, loser. I don’t know your age if you are old or young. It doesn’t matter. The way you write I can see you’re a loser.
Haha wow Muruneko,
Very direct words. Why do YOU keep a free-hand right to condemn Korea China and demand whatever it is you are demanding for your absurd fabrication for the defense of your national pride? Everyone can keep their own money and do as they will, but what is your point? You pretend to be altruistic, but you cannot see past the politics of your own country and see the bigger picture of humanity? Why don’t you try saying that to victims of Japan’s past misdeeds that are still alive. Where do you get off condeming others?
James wrote:First, the TV station that is mentioned is a multi-language format meaning that it will broadcast on average for no more that 2 hours of every day in Korean. Tagalog, Vietnamese, Pakistani, Japanese and of course Chinese have much longer broadcast times.KTSF’s website-based program guide doesn’t quite support what you said. Japanese, Cantonese, and especially Mandarin dominate on the weekends (especially with dramas), but on weekdays, there is just 90 minutes of Japanese programming, compared to 30 minutes for Korean (KBS News). Meanwhile, Korean has no dedicated programming on the weekends.
But among the other languages you mentioned that “have much longer broadcast times,” some have the same or just a bit more than Korean does.
Vietnamese is the same as Korean, 30 minutes a day during the week. There is no Pakistani at all, but on the weekends there is 2.5 hours of Hindi and 2.5 hours of Farsi, but none during the week. That has thse two languages for Indians and Persians/Iranians (both who make up a sizable population in California), tied with Korean and Vietnamese.
Tagalog is an hour during the week and then 2.5 hours on the weekend (including Friday evening).
The only reason I checked this out is that the idea that Vietnamese, Farsi, or Hindi would have a significant amount more would not ring true for a station of this type, especially in California.
But it also makes it easier to respond to trends they gauge. Some TV stations have, for example, started increasing Korean soaps/dramas when demand among locals grew, and they were able to use the non-language-affiliated slots for dramas.
Maybe Mr. Marmot could tweak the default theme to include a photo of the Jindo Grand Bridge. That is the traditional habitat of trolls, is it not?
I am not Korean but my family is and we live in Canada. We borrowed all 28 episodes of Dae Jeon Geum (”Jewel in the Palace”) and watched about 3 VCR’s(6 hours) a day until it was finished. It was a brilliant TV drama! Wish I could afford the DVD collection with English subtitles - had it all translated to me by family. Much more enjoyable than Ho-Jun, another great TV drama about Korean medicine in the Yi Dynasty. Can’t get enough of those old buddhist and confucian values and sentiment, right?
Kats, in 19 and 22.
Who is she anyway?
I’m happy that I successfully fished up a Chosun monkey lurking in the USA.
I’m sneering how the “Korean Wave” is soaking your brain first, before infecting any others. Are you like being proud of hearing the words “Korean Wave”? If yes, it effectively endorses that you are filled up by the Koreans DNA. Conguraturations and good for you.
Now, you are free to count up number one things in the Korea. Please do it, and let me enjoy more…
And btw putting my country under the same category with China is a offense. Keep that.
Why not? Your country had been a subjective country ruled by the several Chineses empires before Japan beated the Qing Dynasty China in the Japanese-Sino war in 1905. Kim-what-ever, you do even have Chinese-style sir name, don’t you?
Oh I get it, because I learned the history using a wrong nationalist history text book, while only yours is right and acceptable?
Richard, in 17.
I simply hate those Chinese and Koreans (not only Norks) who blindly believe in the propaganda brodcasted by their governments. I do not ask you giving me chocolate bars. Good luck to you.
Kats, in 19 and 22.
Who is she anyway?
I??m happy that I successfully fished up a Chosun monkey lurking in the USA.
I??m sneering how the ??Korean Wave?? is soaking your brain first, before infecting any others. Are you like being proud of hearing the words ??Korean Wave”? If yes, it effectively endorses that you are filled up by the Koreans DNA. Conguraturations and good for you.
Now, you are free to count up number one things in the Korea. Please do it, and let me enjoy more??
And btw putting my country under the same category with China is a offense. Keep that.
Why not? Your country had been a subjective country ruled by the several Chineses empires before Japan beated the Qing Dynasty China in the Japanese-Sino war in 1905. Kim-what-ever, you do even have a Chinese-style sir name, don??t you?
Oh I get it, because I learnt the history using a wrong nationalist history text book, while only yours is right and acceptable?
Richard, in 17.
I simply hate those Chinese and Koreans (not only Norks) who blindly believe in the propaganda brodcasted by their governments. I do not ask you giving me chocolate bars. Good luck to you.
I love it-Katz and Muruneko discourses are pure commedy!
The loser thing was to another guy. If you think I’m soaked in this thing called “Korean Wave” look what I posted previously. And your name looks like girl’s name. And the fact why we have Chinese like names was because Silla won the battle if it wasn’t for that we would have longer names and wouldn’t suffer contempt from your part.
James, in 32.
Thanks. Please enjoy feel free, I won’t charge you. My father once told me “You can’t be good at any fishing, unless you earn patience.” but I’m lucky today…
Or maybe, Chosun monkey is too easy to fish? Is it to feel like being a professional skier if you are sking in the Niseko ski resort in Hokkaido, Japan?
# The ski resort is famous for its finer powder snow.
Korean pickpockets are not welcome, of course.
“I simply hate those Chinese and Koreans”
We know that, you’ve said it multiple times and made your point. Why post in Korea related forums then? We are trying to have a discussion here about Korean culture, do you mind?
Why don’t you go away and maybe jerk off looking at pictures of the Emperor, the Rising Sun, Banzai tree, Sushi, Rape of Nanking, and General Tojo. Good ideal, no?
“Korean pickpockets are not welcome, of course.”
I’ll play your little game, little Japanese man.
Koreans actually have far less crime rate in Japan than the Japanese. Foreigners/Koreans rampaging through Japan is really a myth perpetuated by the Japanese media. The source of Japan’s increasing crime rate is Japanese.
http://www.jref.com/society/fo.....apan.shtml
Here’s what the link said:
“The Koreans have the lowest crime and offence rate (0.086%) of any non-Western country, which is worth mentioning as they are the single largest group of foreigners in Japan, accounting for 1/3 of all foreign residents.”
Now this I call Japanese mf. Who is easy unless your mama?
Anybody know where i can get a copy of daejangeum (jewel in the palace) on dvd/cd/video with english subtitles…the dvd’s dont seem to have english subtitles…least not the ones i found….
i watched it in korean with my wife…and enjoyed it dispite the difficulty in translating and understanding…i would like to see it with the help of subtitles….
anybody got an idea?
Kats in 33 and Kushibo in 24.
Thank you entertained me so much. I love you guys. I certainly feel happiness the rest of today.
“Silla won the battle, that’s why you Koreans earned the Chinese-style sir names?” Ha Ha, this is the first time I’ve heard this fancy story. It seems that I need more excercises to observe how Koreans believe in their fabricated story.
Please let me enjoy later…
Hank in 26.
My point is to derail the Koreans. It seems I’m very talented for that today.
As for the condemning match to you, if you are saying that Americans, the winner of the WW II, are always exempted from any war crimes, I agree with that. The USA has a right given by the God and the congress to drop bombs on any nations. Will you do it on the Norks soon, please, like you did in the past on the Japanese and Vietnamese? How would you counter to this?
So, the rule is that the winner is right, the loser is wrong. This was the result of the Tokyo Trial.
Also, I’ve learnt first time the Koreans consider themselves as the winner of the WW II…
mae wrote:the best way to stay on the original topic is to ignore the clown(s). it is getting bit to far.Mae’s right. I apologize if I went too far in #44.
Apollo wrote:Iron Chef, the Japanese cooking show, was a ??Splash??,
but Korean Wave? ???in the US? lolWhat about M*A*S*H?!
(I’m probably out of the club for that one)
But for some reason the good ones are really addictive (I can??t say the same with American TV). Couple of shows I??ve been addicted: Full House, Yi Soon Shin, My Name is Samsoon, and Roof Top Cat.
you’re telling me that this crap holds ur attention, but shows like The Shield, 6 Feet Under, The Wire, Oz, Rescue Me, Entourage dont?? ADD maybe?
kushibo
no apology required because at least you are right about the first 2 paragraphs. and please be advised these are written in all japanese textbook correctly.
but do you really name your cats as posted???
What about M*A*S*H?!
Huh? You are kidding, right? Margaret Cho probably be a better example of “Korean Splash” w
For the humor-impaired and the unsure, in #46 I was joking.
Mae, no, those are not the names of my cats, but in the future they will be. They sound like cats’ names somehow.
One of my dogs was named Nanjido and the other Kunpo.
you can get daejangguem with english subtitles from http://www.yesasia.com but it’s going to cost you!
anybody who read that article couldn’t possibly conclude that there was a korea wave here in the states. the only significant finding for me was that it won it’s time slot against american shows. the point of the article was to point out that there is some interest in america for korean entertainment where just a short time ago, there was no interest at all. i see more than a few korean movies at hollywood video. if somebody told me five years ago that korean movies would be available in a major chain like hollywood, i would have found it hard to believe.
moving to a different street but in the same area, why is it that koreans don’t have a right to feel happy about all this? this is the first time that a significant amount of people have taken a look at korea and found that there are things to like. what’s wrong with koreans feeling happy about that? koreans now have the opportunity to define themselves for themsleves and move out of the shadow of lies that korea is the offspring of japan and china. what’s wrong with that?
nothing’s wrong with that. don’t like the korea wave? then drown in your jjige seeing the koreans once more defy your lowly expectations of them.
‘who ever knew the koreans were so cultured?’ woman from article
nulji knew.
Slim, right back at ya - Bingo. There IS something bathetic about S Korea’s histrionic claims for the Korea Wave that evokes the sad wannabe character of NORK claims about worlwide reverence for the wisdom of KIS and KJI and their juche lunacy
Kushibo -
You mentioned that Muruneko may be racist - I wasn’t aware the Chinese and Koreans share a seperate race from the Japanese??
Kimbob -
“Koreans are by far the most peaceful residents in Japan…” Well, if true, the same does not hold for Koreans in Korea -
South Korea ranks 2nd in the world for embezzlement, 3rd for fraud, 6th for adults prosecuted and 4th for manslaughter (per capita).
http://www.nationmaster.com/
Kimbob -
??Koreans are by far the most peaceful residents in Japan?????
Reading comprehension problem or is it a typical blatant misquoting to beef up one’s own argument through projections?
Whatever the case, I suggest you go back and read what I really posted.
dscofie wrote:You mentioned that Muruneko may be racist - I wasn??t aware the Chinese and Koreans share a seperate race from the Japanese??While the word “race” is most properly used to refer to a racial category such as Blacks (formerly Negroids), Caucasians/Whites (formerly Caucasoids), and East Asians (formerly Mongoloids), the word “racism” came about when “race” was used interchangeably with what we now call “ethnic groups” or “ethnicity.”
Therefore, “racism” and “racist” are reasonably used to refer to discrimination or prejudice based on race or on ethnicity (which used to be widely referred to as “race”).
For reference, these are the American Heritage Dictionary definitions of “race” (#1 is for the three major divisions of humans; #2 and #3 would apply to ethnicities):
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Human beings considered as a group.
5. Biology. a. A population of organisms differing from others of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits; a subspecies. b. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
6. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.
“Thanks. Please enjoy feel free, I won??t charge you. My father once told me ??You can??t be good at any fishing, unless you earn patience.?? but I??m lucky today??? Or maybe, Chosun monkey is too easy to fish? Is it to feel like being a professional skier if you are sking in the Niseko ski resort in Hokkaido, Japan?
# The ski resort is famous for its finer powder snow.
Korean pickpockets are not welcome, of course.”
Ooo… Mr. Monkey-san spent so much time in devising what he wrote that didn’t even had time to read what I wrote.
muruneko — I’d appreciate it if you refrained from the use of the term “monkey” (i.e. Chosun monkey) to refer to other posters. I’m not sure what the connotation of the term is in Japanese, but in English, but it can sound rather offensive in English.
Thanks.
Korean wave or hanryu is slightly overrated. I am Korean, but I don??t watch Korean TV. And most of my Korean friends here and in Korea don??t watch Korean TV either. I never get the original hanryu drama Fall Sonata (??????????), and some of my friends didn??t get it either. I would say that it depends on individual person.
In LA there are two public channels (Korean program) available. When I lived Bay Area a while ago, there were also two Korean channels. But here in North Bay (50 miles from SF) things are different: No Korean channel or program. I could get KTSF channel but I don??t see any Korean language. Asian population in California seems to like Korean drama though. I saw the Chinese dubbing and subtitle of the Korean drama on Chinese channel.
Anyway, does Korean wave make me proud? Not really. It doesn??t make most of Korean friends (who are well-educated professionals and don??t have much time to watch TV) proud either. Actually, my friends and I don??t understand some of hanryu stars. Yonsama was almost washed-off. And actress C, one of the best known artificial beauties, can??t even pronounce Korean words correctly, but she is hanryu star in Japan.
The only Korean drama that I??d like to watch is Yi Soon Sin. But my recent obsession is UFC! It??s available at Spike TV.
“you??re telling me that this crap holds ur attention, but shows like The Shield, 6 Feet Under, The Wire, Oz, Rescue Me, Entourage dont?? ADD maybe?”
In defense of Kimbob, he may not have premium cable channels. If he is married, he might not even make the decisions on what kind of entertainment he pays for. I think when Kimbob was saying “American” programming, I think he was referring to stuff like, “Walker Texas Ranger,” “Everybody Loves Raymond”(I am an individual, I don’t), “America’s Most (fill in blank)”. ADD seems to be global phenomena.
‘i don’t feel pride…’
you know, i get tired of hearing about all this ‘korean pride’. most koreans i know know don’t feel pride for the korea wave, but they do know about it and are delighted to see others taking a look at their culture. what’s wrong with that? it’s certainly much better than always apologizing for your people, no?
you don’t feel pride? good. but i hope you feel no shame either.
Kimbob -
Ok, this is what you said “Koreans actually have far less crime rate in Japan than the Japanese. Foreigners/Koreans rampaging through Japan is really a myth perpetuated by the Japanese media. The source of Japan??s increasing crime rate is Japanese.”
So while I quoted a quote form your original posting (mea culpa), the text you wrote seems to convey the same point; Koreans in Japan commit less crime than the Japanese (one assumes this is based on per capita data). Yet a quick scan through global crime stats on the site I linked indicates quite the opposite. In fact I was unable to find one instance where the per capita rate for any crime in Japan is higher than Korea.
Kushibo -
Thanks for the AHD definitions. Of course, when applied to Japan and Korea it still does not indicate a ‘racial’ distinction, no matter how broadly defined. In fact, when the articles are applied to these two nations the only distinguishing characteristics are ??common history and nationality, or geographic distribution”. But if we accept racial difference based only on these criteria Canadian and American, for example, would also be separate racial classifications.
Indeed, when the definitional line between race and ethnicity is allowed to blur and encompass ethnic identity (and increasingly ideological belief), the term racism becomes so diluted as to lose meaning. ??Racism?? in this environment becomes not definitional but political, a blunt weapon wielded for political gain
I completely agree with your first sentence though, “??race?? is most properly used to refer to a racial category…” I couldn’t agree more.
retards.
you know, i get tired of hearing about all this ???korean pride??. most koreans i know know don??t feel pride for the korea wave, but they do know about it and are delighted to see others taking a look at their culture. what??s wrong with that? it??s certainly much better than always apologizing for your people, no?
I agree with this completely. Nothing’s wrong with that at all and in the long run, isn’t it great for Koreans to treat their culture less as something impenetrable and not capable of being understood by others and more as something to be shared with the world? I think it’s really quite amazing.
i don’t really see much difference in japanese or korean dramas really../shrug, i enjoy both of em..though i take emmense pride in my korean heritage..i also respect japanese culture..one isn’t better than the other..just different!..
i do think it’s kinda shallow of the guy to come here and try to irritate folks..but i only feel pitty..and certainly don’t believe most japanese folks are that way..
anyways, i do miss the korean dramas(they’re soap operas really)..and as some friends have stated some of these dramas are very well done..i’d like to see more imported..i think many here in state side would enjoy them..
dscofie
I was responding to muruneko who wrote:
??Korean pickpockets are not welcome, of course.??
Reading this and knowing something about Japan today, you could get get a good clue what he means (as he clarified and confirmed it in his later post above).
That he’s merely repeating the traditional Japanese view of Koreans in Japan as a criminal race of peopole. All I did was to show the facts that statistics do not support this popular Japanese view of forigners as criminals. I’m not disputing that Korea has a higher crime rate than Japan, but unless you can show me some figures that pertains to Koreans going over to Japan and causing crime problems for the Japanese as muruneko insists (which I’m insisting he’s wrong because of his self professed hatred of Koreans and Chinese), all that you said (crime rate in Korea) is moot point. I have posted the Japanese police figures of crimes committed by foreigners, it shows Koreans in Japan with low crime rates which does not support muruneko. And that site that I linked to, provided an excellent analysis of those figures. What exact problem do you have with the figures published with the Japanese NPA?
http://www.npa.go.jp/kokusai2/15b/siryo.pdf
As for muruneko’s
“In fact, Korean scums are doing this (pretending Japanese after committing crimes) all over the world.”
So you’re actually telling me Koreans wait until they have Japanese citizenship to commit crimes in Japan? Before that, they wait patiently and are exemplery law abiding people until they become Japanese citizens thereby having the chance to screw the real Japanese by pretending to be Japanese. What evil. You actually believe that, you really must be a moron. You do realize that there are over 600,000 mostly second, third, fourth generation Koreans who have not taken Japanese citizenship. I think I’m done with arguing with you. I realize it’s a waste of time.
In defense of Kimbob, he may not have premium cable channels. If he is married, he might not even make the decisions on what kind of entertainment he pays for. I think when Kimbob was saying ??American?? programming, I think he was referring to stuff like, ??Walker Texas Ranger,?? ??Everybody Loves Raymond??(I am an individual, I don??t), ??America??s Most (fill in blank)??.
I don’t either, but the Internet is an amazing tool. If used to its full potential.
dscofie wrote: Thanks for the AHD definitions. Of course, when applied to Japan and Korea it still does not indicate a ???racial?? distinction, no matter how broadly defined.Actually, it does, but that’s based on a definition that is quickly losing currency, thanks to abuse of the term by supremacists.
But that’s not my point. This is: Koreans and Japanese are the same “race” but different ethnicities (although even this can be thrown into doubt). However, due to how language developed, discrimination or prejudice of one toward the other based on their ethnic difference is still widely referred to as “racism,” even if one considers them of the same race.
This will continue to be the case until a concise and precise word to describe discrimination and prejudice based on ethnic difference replaces it. In the meantime, it’s just an example of circumstances among a language’s speakers having proceeded at a different rate than the language itself, just as how we refer to dialing a phone that we don’t actually dial.In fact, when the articles are applied to these two nations the only distinguishing characteristics are ??common history and nationality, or geographic distribution??.But that still counts, at least in the older definition of the word which is on its way out. Nevertheless, I wasn’t saying Japanese and Koreans are different races.But if we accept racial difference based only on these criteria Canadian and American, for example, would also be separate racial classifications.Canadians and Americans would qualify under definition #2, but that is a definition that is far less common, and one less preferred because there is no genetic lineage connecting most or all Americans.Indeed, when the definitional line between race and ethnicity is allowed to blur and encompass ethnic identity (and increasingly ideological belief),When it is allowed to blur? The word started out blurry and nebulous; it is being “allowed” to focus from encompassing ethnicity to primarily race (which may soon be the only acceptable modern definition).
Nevertheless, “racism” has not caught up with “race” in this regard; it is still widely accepted to refer to prejudice and discrimination based on once-common definitions of race, and it will be so until a suitable alternative takes its place. Ethnicism?the term racism becomes so diluted as to lose meaning. ???Racism?? in this environment becomes not definitional but political, a blunt weapon wielded for political gainUnfortunately, “racism” is so over-used in some situations that it becomes useless and meaningless, but its general use is still necessary because there is no substitute in cases where it is being used appropriately.I completely agree with your first sentence though, ????race?? is most properly used to refer to a racial category????? I couldn??t agree more.Well, that was only half my point.
Is it racism is Indians (from India) are discriminated against in the U.K.? How about if a “pure-blooded” Inca descendant from Peru gets maltreatment in Tokyo or Seoul?
Komtengi, I am just shocked. shocked. now let me get back to using bittorrent. My friends and I have large text files (700megs) of our very own literary creations that we like to share with each other.
Korean soaps are hitting the airwaves in Japan, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Southeast Asia. The stateside viewership is probably the product of immigrants from the Far East taking their viewing preferences to the US. I saw ads for Daejanggeum playing on cable TV at the local Chinese restaurant. It was dubbed in Mandarin, though.
Korean “soap operas” are also very popular in Mongolia, I usually don’t watch them here in Korea (except Kim sam soon) because I don’t understand most of what they’re saying (being ignorant angry Mongolian) and asking Robert for translating is like well, I’d be better off doing a suicidal jump to the Han river reborn as a Korean and rent the drama. ??Good wives always blame their husband?? Chinese proverb of the day!!!!!
Anyways, Korean dramas are so popular in Mongolia; In fact they show them on every channel. I like Korean dramas too they’re so addictive you just have to watch it until the end, no other choice.
Are you really a princess?
Nope, I’m a former comi who used to be a very proud “Pioneer”. (I hope american immigraion people doesn’t read Robert’s blog)
I wouldn’t worry about “Homeland Security”. They’ll probably welcome you and keep Robert out.
Komtengi, I am just shocked. shocked. now let me get back to using bittorrent. My friends and I have large text files (700megs) of our very own literary creations that we like to share with each other.
sarcasm… usually lost on americans
Heh.. During the citizenship interview or test or whatever it’s supposed to be, I was asked, amongst many things:
1: Was I ever a communist. (I was rather tempted to reply, “I’m rather intrigued and awed by the early Christians’ lifestyle as depicted in the book of Acts)
2: When is the Independence Day. (I was really nervous at the time and thought, “Crap! When was July 4th????”)
But i digress and I’ll stop hitting my drum and Jangoo as Dogbert once accused someone else of doing.
3: Who is the first president of the United States. (My sister tells me the tale of the very old applicant desperately trying to remember this fact and screarming, “Bill Clinton! Bill CLinton!” and the exasperated interviewer who was symapthetic to this old applicant kept asking, “no no, I said first president. the FIRST.”
4: (this was difficult for a clueless person like me)Who is the Chief Justice in the Supreme Court? If they had asked me who the Speaker of the House or Secretary of Education or define Habeus Corpus, I would have suredly been to this day, a greencard carrying (which by the way, for those who don’t know, is actually white and blue, so therefor a misnomer) permanent alien.
Heh.. During the citizenship interview or test or whatever it’s supposed to be, I was asked, amongst many things:
1: Was I ever a communist. (I was rather tempted to reply, “I’m rather intrigued and awed by the early Christians’ lifestyle as depicted in the book of Acts)
2: When is the Independence Day. (I was really nervous at the time and thought, “Crap! When was July 4th????”)
3: Who is the first president of the United States. (My sister tells me the tale of the very old applicant desperately trying to remember this fact and screarming, “Bill Clinton! Bill CLinton!” and the exasperated interviewer who was symapthetic to this old applicant kept asking, “no no, I said first president. the FIRST.”
4: (this was difficult for a clueless person like me)Who is the Chief Justice in the Supreme Court? If they had asked me who the Speaker of the House or Secretary of Education or define Habeus Corpus, I would have suredly been to this day, a greencard carrying (which by the way, for those who don’t know, is actually white and blue, so therefor a misnomer) permanent alien.
But i digress and I’ll stop hitting my drum and Jangoo as Dogbert once accused someone else of doing.
sorry for double post
Hey, I can’t believe it, I actually agree with Nulji on this one. People shouldn’t have such low expectations of Korean ’stuff’. I don’t much like most of the tv programs here in Korea, but I’ve seen a few really good movies. They’ve definitely got what seems to be a creative, inventive, professional film industry worth looking at.