Comments on: Base workers get name tags http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/ Korea... in Blog Format Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:47:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: usinkorea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/#comment-22690 usinkorea Thu, 01 Sep 2005 08:41:37 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1975#comment-22690 In talking about prejudice and whatnot in Korea with new teachers, I always told them if they made the effort to go out and about in Korea, they (the non-black ones) might have 1 or possibly 2 negative run ins with a Korean a year at most, but.......they would frequently get better treatment in restaurants and shops and such, especially outside of Seoul, than Korean customers just because they are foreign and exotic. I don't call Koreans terribly rude, but there is a big difference between the concept of customer service in Korea than, well, at least what I'm used to in the southern states in the US (and in a couple of other states I've lived in). (I threw in the "well" because I suddenly had flashbacks to living in Miami........) In talking about prejudice and whatnot in Korea with new teachers, I always told them if they made the effort to go out and about in Korea, they (the non-black ones) might have 1 or possibly 2 negative run ins with a Korean a year at most, but…….they would frequently get better treatment in restaurants and shops and such, especially outside of Seoul, than Korean customers just because they are foreign and exotic.

I don’t call Koreans terribly rude, but there is a big difference between the concept of customer service in Korea than, well, at least what I’m used to in the southern states in the US (and in a couple of other states I’ve lived in). (I threw in the “well” because I suddenly had flashbacks to living in Miami……..)

]]> By: dda http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/#comment-22689 dda Thu, 01 Sep 2005 06:33:50 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1975#comment-22689 Agree with gbnhj on #25. It's always a double-standard. Lotsa people are very unpolite with foreigners, because mainly we don't belong into their social scheme. A good remedy ?? but you need a good command of Korean ?? is to give them a taste of their own medicine. Another thing that irritates me is the unwillingness of Koreans to use [at least to Korean-speaking fuhreenas] ????? [ranks, titles] as they would with Koreans. I had to give a lot of crap to a cop [don't ask] to call me ????????? when I was a prof @ HUFS, and ????????? + ?????? is apparently very difficult to conjugate. But here again, call them ????*??* and they stop pretty fast... Agree with gbnhj on #25. It’s always a double-standard. Lotsa people are very unpolite with foreigners, because mainly we don’t belong into their social scheme. A good remedy ?? but you need a good command of Korean ?? is to give them a taste of their own medicine.

Another thing that irritates me is the unwillingness of Koreans to use [at least to Korean-speaking fuhreenas] ????? [ranks, titles] as they would with Koreans. I had to give a lot of crap to a cop [don't ask] to call me ????????? when I was a prof @ HUFS, and ????????? + ?????? is apparently very difficult to conjugate. But here again, call them ????*??* and they stop pretty fast…

]]> By: gbnhj http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/#comment-22688 gbnhj Thu, 01 Sep 2005 06:00:16 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1975#comment-22688 People mainly speak politely to me, but not usually formally - that's where I'd say 'come on' :) The situation that I mentioned in #25 is not the norm, but it happens. BTW, the next time someone cuts in front of you, try saying 'Cheogi - jaega moonja wussuyo' ('Excuse me - I was here first.') with a kind of dour look, and they should stop quickly enough. People mainly speak politely to me, but not usually formally - that’s where I’d say ‘come on’ :)
The situation that I mentioned in #25 is not the norm, but it happens. BTW, the next time someone cuts in front of you, try saying ‘Cheogi - jaega moonja wussuyo’ (’Excuse me - I was here first.’) with a kind of dour look, and they should stop quickly enough.

]]> By: foreigner http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/#comment-22687 foreigner Thu, 01 Sep 2005 05:06:33 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1975#comment-22687 I hear you gbnhj, and I suppose that yelling "Yogi-o!" at the waitress is marginally polite because of the ending, but come on. People mainly speak formal Korean with me, which is kind of a waste because I only understand a fraction of it :) Anyway, I don't give a damn about the conjugations, I just want people here to stop walking into me and cutting in front of me in lines.... I hear you gbnhj, and I suppose that yelling “Yogi-o!” at the waitress is marginally polite because of the ending, but come on. People mainly speak formal Korean with me, which is kind of a waste because I only understand a fraction of it :) Anyway, I don’t give a damn about the conjugations, I just want people here to stop walking into me and cutting in front of me in lines….

]]> By: gbnhj http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/#comment-22686 gbnhj Thu, 01 Sep 2005 04:36:17 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1975#comment-22686 Well, part of politeness comes out in linguistic differences. So, even when Koreans don't use a word like 'please', language structure can imply it, and verb conjugation can show it. It's not always necessary to use '????' or '??', because it's being said in other ways. But how about the folks who violate that norm? For example, how about Koreans who use ????? with non-Koreans, when the social norm doesn't support it? I don't mean the folks working in the local ???????????? - you expect to find that kind of language on the street, so it's no big deal. But that can also happen in stores (heck, it's even happened to me in a bank), and it's infuriating when Korean customers are spoken to in Korean much more politely than am I - a well-dressed middle-aged non-Korean, who is also using Korean (politely, too, 'cause that's the way we're taught in school). Once you study a language, you learn what people say and how they say it, and you'll also discover that it's not all that difficult to find Koreans who violate their own culture norms when they speak with non-Koreans. Well, part of politeness comes out in linguistic differences. So, even when Koreans don’t use a word like ‘please’, language structure can imply it, and verb conjugation can show it. It’s not always necessary to use ‘????’ or ‘??’, because it’s being said in other ways.

But how about the folks who violate that norm? For example, how about Koreans who use ????? with non-Koreans, when the social norm doesn’t support it? I don’t mean the folks working in the local ???????????? - you expect to find that kind of language on the street, so it’s no big deal. But that can also happen in stores (heck, it’s even happened to me in a bank), and it’s infuriating when Korean customers are spoken to in Korean much more politely than am I - a well-dressed middle-aged non-Korean, who is also using Korean (politely, too, ’cause that’s the way we’re taught in school). Once you study a language, you learn what people say and how they say it, and you’ll also discover that it’s not all that difficult to find Koreans who violate their own culture norms when they speak with non-Koreans.

]]> By: foreigner http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/#comment-22685 foreigner Thu, 01 Sep 2005 03:28:40 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1975#comment-22685 Aside from the name tag business and allegedly rude soldiers, I think it's rich that any Korean people complain of rudeness--in stores people routinely bark out demands for something and in restaurants yell "Here!" at the top of their lungs. This is never prefaced by "excuse me," "please," or "thank you," except from me, Mr. Foreigner, because I like to see the looks of surprise and big smiles from people who are being treated like a human being for a change. Aside from the name tag business and allegedly rude soldiers, I think it’s rich that any Korean people complain of rudeness–in stores people routinely bark out demands for something and in restaurants yell “Here!” at the top of their lungs. This is never prefaced by “excuse me,” “please,” or “thank you,” except from me, Mr. Foreigner, because I like to see the looks of surprise and big smiles from people who are being treated like a human being for a change.

]]> By: hardyandtiny http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/#comment-22684 hardyandtiny Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:40:12 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1975#comment-22684 "And I can??t see anything wrong with an expat throwing in a Korean word or two without having to first learn the language enough to be conversational." Certainly, but that's not what the Koreans on base are complaining about. There are many people who use ajoshi and ajumma incorrectly because they have never learned, (and in most cases have no intention to ever learn) the basics of Korean language. It's something like the equivalent of "Yo!" in English. “And I can??t see anything wrong with an expat throwing in a Korean word or two without having to first learn the language enough to be conversational.”

Certainly, but that’s not what the Koreans on base are complaining about. There are many people who use ajoshi and ajumma incorrectly because they have never learned, (and in most cases have no intention to ever learn) the basics of Korean language. It’s something like the equivalent of “Yo!” in English.

]]> By: usinkorea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/#comment-22683 usinkorea Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:08:20 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1975#comment-22683 "It just seems like the people that are offended are being a little too sensitive." That is a doubt I have too. And if the GIs want to be somewhat insulting with their use of Korean, I would think they would do a better job of it if they were to learn to use the lowest form verb/sentence ender and toss out any Yo-s or sumnida-s..... “It just seems like the people that are offended are being a little too sensitive.”

That is a doubt I have too.

And if the GIs want to be somewhat insulting with their use of Korean, I would think they would do a better job of it if they were to learn to use the lowest form verb/sentence ender and toss out any Yo-s or sumnida-s…..

]]> By: usinkorea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/#comment-22682 usinkorea Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:05:22 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1975#comment-22682 "Personally when I??m in a store on the base I use Sir/Madam/Miss when addressing Koreans. I don??t see the point (in a base store) of addressing a Korean person in their language unless I can continue to speak in their language." See....it is lines like that that muddy the waters of comprehension for me. I can picture a GI or ESL guy saying in a rude voice, "Hey boy! How much for this?" But, when an example or statement saying that is how it is fairly often done comes in the same comment as the above sentence, I start to have doubts. What I mean is, if you (the generic you) already have the idea that you shouldn't try to mix in some Korean with your English on a basic level because it is wrong or awkward or a minefield for potential misunderstanding or something like that “Personally when I??m in a store on the base I use Sir/Madam/Miss when addressing Koreans. I don??t see the point (in a base store) of addressing a Korean person in their language unless I can continue to speak in their language.”

See….it is lines like that that muddy the waters of comprehension for me.

I can picture a GI or ESL guy saying in a rude voice, “Hey boy! How much for this?”

But, when an example or statement saying that is how it is fairly often done comes in the same comment as the above sentence, I start to have doubts.

What I mean is, if you (the generic you) already have the idea that you shouldn’t try to mix in some Korean with your English on a basic level because it is wrong or awkward or a minefield for potential misunderstanding or something like that

]]> By: mrstkdsd http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/08/30/base-workers-get-name-tags/#comment-22681 mrstkdsd Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:57:01 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1975#comment-22681 I was speaking of agashi and ajoshi, not sonnim. I realize I made a generalization, and I didn' mean to. More often than not, its the males, and it could be more of a sexist thing (at least in the case of agashi). I can also understand the younger people not wanting to be addressed as an older person. It just seems like the people that are offended are being a little too sensitive. The Koreans I come in contact with appreciate my attempts to use their language, even if I mispronounce words. I was speaking of agashi and ajoshi, not sonnim.
I realize I made a generalization, and I didn’ mean to.
More often than not, its the males, and it could be more of a sexist thing (at least in the case of agashi).

I can also understand the younger people not wanting to be addressed as an older person.

It just seems like the people that are offended are being a little too sensitive. The Koreans I come in contact with appreciate my attempts to use their language, even if I mispronounce words.

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