I’m fairly certain I’ll see these poll results cited somewhere in the foreign press:
The survey by Gallup Korea of 833 individuals born between 1980 and 1989 also found a marked shift in attitude to North Korea and the South?s traditional ally, the U.S. Some 65.9 percent responded they would take North Korea’s side if it was at war with the U.S., while 21.8 percent said South Korea must stand with the U.S. and the rest were undecided.
I’m sure that will end up in someone’s report, much like the Munhwa Ilbo/KSOI poll was.
Meanwhile, when asked during another poll which nation they felt closest to, Korean high school kids cited “Turkey.” Yes, Turkey. Oddly enough, the Turkish restaurant near my home (good falafel) is always packed with big-nosers, but I rarely see Korean high school kids in there. Go figure. The Netherlands and North Korea were No. 2 and No. 3, respectively, while the United States placed just after Japan in the least-favored nation least.
I’m sure those numbers will be cited somewhere soon, too.
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When I was in Istanbul last year on several occasions I heard Turks call Korea the “brother country.”
btw, I really wish that when they asked those questions when they do those surveys they’d get more specific. For example I’ve got to believe that many more would side with the US if the question was “If NK turned Seoul into a ’sea of fire’ which country would you side with?” as opposed to “If the US suddenly and unilaterally started a war on sexed-up intel, like with the HEU program it says NK has but has not provided proof about, not unike it did with Iraq, who would you side with?” Whether they’ve got it right or not aside, currently Southerners would be more worried about the latter scenario, hence results are what they are.
Ahem.
It’s almost enough to wish that NK would attack the South, just to see the looks on their faces as they realize - for those that make the connection - that, hey, Grandpa was right, and they were wrong.
The second poll appears to be an unscientific push-poll from a leftist teachers’ union. I don’t put much weight on it and America’s decision-makers probably shouldn’t, either.
The first poll is from Gallup Korea, presumably a reputable outfit, so it presents more of a problem, because it’s a pretty shocking result. One way to deal with that is to spin furiously, which the Chosun Ilbo laughably did by calling this a case of “pragmatic patriotism.” I realize what a translation challenge that phrase must have been, but let’s open the bidding for a better euphemism than that one.
You could try to suggest, as Oranckay and Nick Eberstadt have, that this result may have been because of a loaded question. However, the question (as reported, anyway) just doesn’t look that loaded. It doesn’t speak of unilateral attacks, seas of fire, or any of those straw men–it just asks the respondents whether they’d side with N. Korea “if it was at war with the U.S.” The result is that they would, by about 3-to-1. Even if you flipped that result, it would represent a very substantial security concern for Americans in Korea in the event of hostilities.
You could question the sample size (which is small) and method of sample selection (which is the real unknown). Those are probably legitimate bases to attack this result, but those attacks are hard to pursue without more information. Besides which, you’d have to apply the same attacks to other results showing widespread anti-Americanism in Korea.
Finally, you could say that the result is an aberration. That’s true, but only to an extent. An examination of the entire pool of polling data of which I’m aware only indicates that Koreans are anti-American, but probably not this anti-American. That doesn’t really undermine the ultimate conclusion: the Korean people–particularly young Koreans–don’t “feel” that they share America’s interest, values, or goals.
How long can an alliance persist under such circumstances?
late tuesday links
Ben Muse notes that 80% of China’s oil has to travel from the Malacca Strait. Noting that the nation would be at risk from a conflict with India or an incident in the Straits would be a problem. This should
“whether they??d side with N. Korea ??if it was at war with the U.S.?? The result is that they would, by about 3-to-1″
Anti Americanism in Korea comes from the head, not from the heart. It’s emotionalism based on nationalism and a sense of grievance against the United States. Right now they say they’d side with North Korea on the event of war with the US. But I have absolutely no doubt that once North Korea attacks South Korea, polls will quickly change.
1. i really depends on how the question is asked. if you ask if NK attack S and hence US went to war with NK, the answer wd have been different.
if u ask if US goes to war to NK (implying it is another iraq-gate nonsense), i am not surprised SK side with NK. because it is their relative who would suffer (like irqai people today), even though they don’t like Kim Jong-il
2. as for Turkey, it isn’t fake either. ask your korean friends to verify. Do you know korea and turkey (plus mongolia and finland) share the same linguistic family?
(again, one needs to look at how the question is phrased to claim whether the reporter interpreted it correctly)
The Korean language share far more affinity with Japanese than it does with Turkish. So much for that theory.
I would guess that the Korean-Turkish affinity goes back to the 3rd-place final of the 2002 World Cup, where the 2 teams’ players held hands, etc. at the end of the game. At the time, media pundit-types were speculating that this in turn was an acknowledgement of Turkey’s contribution to the Korean War (apparently they were among the larger UN contingents after the US).
“I would guess that the Korean-Turkish affinity goes back to the 3rd-place final of the 2002 World Cup, where the 2 teams?? players held hands, etc. at the end of the game.”
Turkey fought in the Korean War, there is some sort of exchange program between the army academies in each and Korea sells Turkey military hardware (nothing fancy). Some have said part of the affection comes from being: far apart so there’s no negative history, in similar “sorta wanna be, sorta don’t” alliances with the US, serious about religion but still open to others, and many many more things. Whatever the case it didn’t start with the World Cup and Korea has “Turkey” experts who’ve written lotsa stuff about it (sometimes it’s hard to find books about other countries written by Koreans instead of being translated from English), and while way behind English and French the Korean literature that gets translated into Turk sells well.
I stand corrected. It would be superficial to say it only started with the World Cup. Interesting about how Turkish translations of Korean literature sell well; interesting too about Korean Turkeyologists (to coin a rather lame term).
Turkicologists?
Perhaps the affinity with Turkey goes to the perceived status relationships that Korea has with other countries. Each country is higher or lower than Korea, and Koreans behave accordingly. Turkey is the only country that Koreans don’t seem to feel higher or lower than. I can’t explain this, but through talking to Koreans over the years, I’ve found that Turkey is the only country that Koreans somehow feel “equal” to.
Attempting to understand mainsteam Korean attitudes often leaves foreigners scratching their heads. I’ve developed the Korean Pride (KP) Index, which can be used to explain or forecast Korean mainstream opinions on any subject.
Korea Pride index =
(sum of positive factors) / N + (sum of negative factors) * N
where N = non-Korean multiplier. use 10 for non-Koreans and 1/10 for Koreans.
Examples:
USA
+50 points for helping out during the Korean War
-5 points for instilling ??????s with a westernised worldview
-5 points for having a GDP/capita that is over double that of South Korea
-2 points for referring to raw fish as sushi rather than chobap
-10 points for running over school girls with tanks
(50) /10 + (-5 + -5 + -2 + -10) * 10 = -215
USA registers a strong negative KP index of -215, thus explaining the latest poll results.
Turkey
+50 points for helping out during the Korean War
+5 points for having a GDP/capita that is 62% below that of South Korea
(50 + 5) /10 = 5.5
Turkey resisters a marginally positive KP index of 5.5.
Douglas MacArthur
+20 points for helping out during the Korean War
-2 points for a statue of his foreign likeness existing on Korean soil
(20) / 10 + (-2) * 10 = 0
Douglas MacArthur registers a KP index of 0, thus accounting for the lack of consensus.
North Korea
+20 points for casting out the Japanese imperialist aggressors
+5 points for cute football cheerleaders
-1000 points for widespread famine of millions of Koreans
-200 points for ensuring that the most famous Korean in the world is a bizarre, evil dictator
(20 + 5) / (1/10) + (-100 + -50) * (1/10) = 130
A KP Index of 130 explains the Unification Minister’s track record.
The possibilities are endless, and should be used by all countries to guide future diplomatic relations on the peninsula.
Oops, screwed up the KP index calculation for North Korea. It should be as follows
+20 points for casting out the Japanese imperialist aggressors
+5 points for cute football cheerleaders
-1000 points for widespread famine of millions of Koreans
-200 points for ensuring that the most famous Korean in the world is a bizarre, evil dictator
(20 + 5) / (1/10) + (-1000 + -200) * (1/10) = 130
I think the term is “Turcologist.”
Korea and Turkey are both very nationalist countries; maybe that’s one thing they have in common. Mustafa Kemal (aka Ataturk) came up with lots of crazy ideas about “grey wolves” and the “Sun Language Theory,” and other romanticized stories of the racial origins of the Turks on the central Asian steppes in order to replace Islam as the official ideology. Turks to this day are still taught in school that they are the descendants of the same people that China built the great wall to repel, in spite of the much more likely probability that like the people of Egypt today, they descend mostly from the same people who have always lived there, in this case former Greek speaking Orthodox Christians.
See also “Pan-Turkism.”
Joshua, I question *any* polling done in Korea simply because there is so much misapplication scientific methodology in certain fields, especially statistics and especially in Korea. I would not take it seriously unless I could study the methodology — even from Gallup. For all we know, the name “Gallup” could be another form of foreign branding, which is a commonly popular means of increasing the validity of anything in the Korean market.
It might not be a poll, but read twice the Korea Times editor’s contribution to the world of the printed word today