Someone seems to think so:
Prof. Hwang Woo-suk at Seoul National University, South Korea’s stem cell pioneer, is under fire for giving too much credit for his strides in cloning research to a foreign scientist.
Some scientists say that this could weaken Hwang’s standing, particularly when he is up for a Nobel prize.
A Seoul geneticist, who wanted to be identified by just his surname, Park, Thursday argued Hwang gives too much credit to Prof. Gerald Schatten of the University of Pittsburgh, in relation to the contributions he made.
“Schatten did not participate in the stem cell research that was carried out in Seoul in person, but he got the status of coauthor in related papers thanks to Hwang’s favors,” Park insisted.
Read the rest on your own. Liked the photo, too. Obviously, I don’t work on the SNU team, so I really don’t know what’s what, but I do know that Hwang tends to be very modest — at least in public — so there might be something to this. I’m sure they’ll be more on it later.
And for what it’s worth — coming from a man who attended G’town’s SFS (Safe From Science) — I can’t see how Hwang doesn’t win a Nobel for the things he’s doing.
24 Comments
Dr.Hwang needs them, even though these big names under suspecion as his is, to cover up his lies and put stamp of approval on his work.
Schatten and Wilmut are both under suspicion by other scientists. They are not cloning leaders. They are considered shalatans and magicians.
Their works are never duplicated in any other lab. The three liars, Hwang, Schatten and Wilmut formed unholy alliance to cover each other. Their techniques are never shared with other scientists, not even between the three.
The cloning is a lie done in darkness, only borrowing the name of science. The science must done by laboratory proof, preferrably done by a third and neutral party.
The real work is done, not by Dr.Hwang but by his subordinates. If this thing hits the fan, Dr.Hwang can always claim he did not know about massive lying that went on in his lab. He covers his ass by not being around in his own lab but goes around giving speeches to cops, lay persons and politicians.
The paper should delete the Schatten’s name as well as Dr. Hwang’s. There jokers should be placed under lie detector exam and their work scrutinized by a third and neutral party.
“All experiments were performed in Korea by Korean scientists and all results were obtained in Korea using Korean equipment and Korean sponsorship.” This kind of petty nationalism is the enemy of good science.
calm down folks, this is just a wonderful example of the media knowing a good story when it sees one. people love to speculate. (how much influence did those foreign guys have?? is Hwang a dupe.. or just a really nice guy??) the real story is that Hwang and his team (which apparently included Shatten) cloned a dog. (the only other side story, perhaps, is that Marmot would like to eat said dog^^)
To understand Dr.Hwang, you must know Dr.ByungChun Lee. The true lab work(lying part) is done by Dr. Lee. Dr.Hwang is just a preacher for cloning.
Dr. Hwang puts pressure on Dr. Lee to come up with results. “The reason you fail is that you are not working hard enough”. Dr.Lee is cornered. He gets tired after 1,000 tries. He sneaks in a sperm.
The truth can be found out easily if one does nucleotide by nucleotide comparison. But, no scientist does that. Why not? Because it is still very expensive to do this. And, there is no glory in finding that Dr. Hwang is a liar.
So, people continue to believe in a lie. It is a shame.
He sneaks in a sperm.
Let’s be honest. Haven’t most of us here succumbed to such temptation at one time or another?
I just heard that all three liars, Hwang, Wilmut and Schatten are in Seoul. Korean government is putting up the bill to house,wine and dine these “infamous” scientists. Are they given women too?
This is no longer a science, but a three-ring circus. However, Koreans are starved for this type of attention and are willing to spend the big money for these liars.
Fools lose money.
Are they given women too?
Not sure about that, but I’ve heard several bitches were involved.
It is not “very expensive” to detect a fake clone baduk. I could do it in 4 hours flat with a lab and a $50 of reagents. You really have no idea what you are talking about. You by no means need to sequence the entire genome of mother and clone to detect it. Take off the tin-foil hat.
You’re on a roll, Dawgbert!
Krz,
Why don’t you elaborate a little? Why aren’t biologists being thorough in scientific quest? What other method is there to prove two organisms are the exact copy of each other?
I believe the only rigorous proof is the sequencing of the entire genome. Don’t propose an approximate method. For something as important as this, one has to do the most thorough proof available.
Well, if you did simple RFLP analysis on the suspected clone and the banding patterns were different from the mothers you would have just proven the clone was a fake. There would be no need to go any further. If the dog was indeed a fake the odds of RFLP analysis failing would be astronomical to the point of absurdity. Why would you want to sequence the entire genome anyway? Heavily conserved regions would be completely useless as they are almost exactly the same among all members of a species.
Quite frankly, I don’t know why you have such an axe to grind against Hwang and his folks. Getting papers into Science is no easy task, and it would be ridiculous for you to suggest subterfuge when reliable, rigorous safeguards are in place with anonymous third party peer-review.
If his work can’t be replicated in other labs, his work will be questioned, and the fraud uncovered. His career would be over. Don’t even think that other labs aren’t poring over his protocols to replicate their experiments. Consistent failure to replicate by many labs would mean at least the retraction of their paper, or worst allegations of fraud.
His protocols are now in the public domain. Failure to replicate experimental results and allegations of fraud mean the end of his career. Who would be stupid enough to commit fraud knowing that others WILL try to do the same thing his lab group did? It’s beyond stupid - it’s commiting scientific suicide.
But, scientists in the past have tried. And, in this case the proof of falsification is difficult to prove.
Krz, I believe your RFLP patterns can distinguish a single base difference if one know where to look for. However, do we know about dog’s genome well enough to know which restriction enzyme to use and where to look for?
What if, as I suspect in the case of Dolly, the control and the test are actually withdrawn from the same organism? Who verifies that these original samples are from the correct organisms? No one.
Many journal articles have been withdrawn from these so-called “reliable” journals. The editors just peruse over to make sure necessary evidence is there. But, if a scientist can make up the data, he can. Dr. Lee can make up the data and Dr. Hwang can deny he knew about the falsification.
Believe me, this happened frequently in scientific circles. Especially, in cancer cure and in cloning research, because these area can become “cash cow”.
1)”If his work can??t be replicated in other labs, his work will be questioned”; there is no lab in the world who will try 1,000 times. Dr. Hwang is counting on this.
2) There is nobody stupid enough to repeat this because when other labs fail, Dr. Hwang will say the lab technique is not as good as Korean scientists. Liars always points to “lab technique”.
3)His protocols are now in the public domain. : You are so naive. The protocol is described in flimsy language in the journal and the technique, especially important part, is never shown to any other lab.
There was a report in Korean newpaper that someone in the group released a “classified” photo to the press inadverdently. The act was caught before the damage was done. Dr. Hwang said, if the photo leaked, everybody would have found out about “Korean” technique.
It is a three circus embroiled in magic(technique), secrecy and intrigue. Whatever it may be, it is not science.
3)it??s commiting scientific suicide. : not necessarily. You lie first and get the money. Hugh money comes and then you hire hugh staff. You pressure these men till one of them breaks and lie for you. There you have a result.
When the fraud is uncovered, you can say you did not know about it. Why do think Dr. Hwang is rarely around his lab? He has time to lecture to cops, congressmen, citizen groups and local chapter of ajumma groups. He is not even a scientist. He is a rock musician.
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Dr. Hwang visited KyengBuk univerisity this year and requested to the dean that he hire one of Dr.Hwang’s staff. The dean refused.
Sometimes, science is no different from the mob world.
There is a report on 3 year-old boy who passed the MS Wordprocessor certification. Also, the parents told that the boy read about 2,000 books already.
Another Dr. Hwang in the make?
http://www.donga.com/fbin/outp.....0508040206
Baduk there are plenty of methods that could be used to show that the clone is the real deal, but if you don’t even trust the verifications of experiments carried out at other labs, or the verifications of verifications carried out at still more labs, there’s not much point in arguing with you. All I can say from personal experience is that I have cloned mice before, with my own hands, from start to finish. It wasn’t particularly hard and it wasn’t drastically different from the procedures used for all the other mammalian species we are seeing getting cloned. Still, these clones are by no means perfect duplicates. The telomeres are all screwed up, and various other DNA wear and tear that occurs during the life of the organism is carried over into the clones. It’s not particularly exciting. If you really were looking to create a massive army of genetically identical test subjects you would probably be much better off generating large sets of idetical twins. Fertilize, divide, grow, divide, etc. for a long period of time and then implant the organisms into host bitches to raise them to adulthood. Identical twins are far more genetically similar than the so-called “clones” we are producing today.
Anyway, you argue against evolution without providing a testable alternative so I guess there’s not much point in talking to you.
The next thing baduk will be questioning will be the moon landing. It never happened. How can you prove it? All the pictures are fake. How do you know there were really men on the moon? How do we know the moon rock samples were really from the moon? Useless and a time waster debating someone with shut eyes.
KrZ,
If I remember correctly, your cloning of mice was not done with fully specialized cell. Dr.Hwang is claiming he can take any cell from your body and make a copy of you. This is quite different from other cloner who basically split an sperm egg combination into many offsprings.
His result totally disagree with the developmental biology where a cell is specialized as it grows. Dr.Hwang says he can totally reverse this “specialization” into oblivion and make a copy of organism out of any cell of an organism. For example, we can make a copy of Eistein from the brain we kept.
Contrary to what most Koreans believe, Dr. Hwang is viewed in the science community as “believe-it-or-not” category. His results will not be put into a textbook for some time to come.
Korean scientists are viewed as Indian, Brazilian or Russian scientists. Their work is not to be believed till one of the legitimate scientist in the West has duplicated the results.
Even Wilmut and Schatten are not kosher scientists. It will take one of the big names in Biology; maybe some one from Havard, Yale or Oxford.
Dr. Hwang has not succeed in gaining trust of one of these “certified” scientists. He is still a “believe-it-or-not” category.
If you ask one of these reliable scientists about Dr.Hwang’s work, they will not comment on it officially. But, if you ask them in private setting, overwhelming percentage of them will call Dr.Hwang a liar. The same is true for Wilmut and Dolly.
Why do you think no Nobel prize for Wilmut?
Texas AM’s cat cloning too. The cats don’t even look the same.
It is a shame that biologists keeps mum on this subject because more money is coming their way. It is a scandal.
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Seoul ginseng
The Seoul Times, South Korea - Oct 17, 2005 mountain dew tea produced in Haegye Valley and the other teas grown in the other commercial growing field is comparable to that of wild and ordinary ginseng.