Someone was kind enough to send me a link to a 1974 study by Italian scholar Valerio Anselmo on the etymology of Kudara, the Japanese term for the Korean state of Baekje. It’s an interesting read for those interested in history and linguistics — here’s just the introduction:
One of the most stimulating problems for the imagination of a linguist interested in Japanese and Korean is that of the etymology of the name Kudara 1. This name in Japan refers to the Korean state of Paekche ?????????? 2, which at the time of the Three States (Samguk ?????????) was occupying the South-Western part of the Korean peninsula 3. The state of Paekche, because of the continuous pression exerted upon it by Kogury?? ?????????? 4 and Silla ?????????? 5, was the most faithful ally of Japan in the peninsula for fighting against the other two states. Starting from the 4th century on, it was the most important intermediary of the continental Chinese culture towards Japan. In the year 660 it was conquered by Silla 6, which in 668, with the capitulation of Kogury??, was able, for the first time in history, to unify under its rule all the Korean peninsula.
[page 2 of the original]
Still today in Japanese the state of Paekche is called Kudara. This name, so different from those which are the Japanese pronounciations hakusai and hyakusai 7 of the two Chinese characters forming it, has been the object of various interpretations, mainly by Oriental scholars.This script does not aim to solve the problem in an irrefutable way, but simply tries to clear up some historical-linguistical issues connected with the research about the etymology of the name Kudara. Some solutions will be proposed, although not definitive for the time being, but susceptible of further reconsiderations and developments should other material relating to the research be discovered or the studies on this subject be furtherly deepened.
Enjoy. On a related note, for those in Korea thinking of paying our neighbors across the East Sea a visit, make it a point to stop by Horyu Temple in Nara. Aside from possessing some of the world’s oldest wooden buildings, it’s as close to a real-live Baekje temple (must read for the Korean-literate) as your going to find on the planet (with some Koguryo wall paintings in the main hall thrown in for good measure), and you can spend all day staring at the Baekje Avalokitesvara (Japanese: Kudara Kannon) — it really is that mesmerizing.
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Worth pointing out that kudara originates from the same era as that other bizarreness in pronounciation - “Yamato”
And I second the recommendation to visit the Horyuji - I was there last Christmas and was hugely impressed
Yes, I’ve been to that website. It’s actually been up for about six months. Anyways, it just goes to show you that the Korean state of Paekje/Kudara had a tremendous influence on Yamato Japan. The whole site is a bit too academic for most viewers that come to this particular site. No offense intended to anyone.
There are several interesting things one can derive from the site and to me, they are as follows:
1) There were several distinct, but possibly related languages spoken on the Korean Peninsula. The language spoken by Paekje might have been more similar to the language spoken in Koguryo. This master language, perhaps the Puyo language spoken in the north, was significantly different then the language spoken in Silla, which evolved into middle Korean, which in turn became modern Korean.
2) Paekje had an older name. We know Silla had several earlier names. One is Kerim and the other is Saro. Silla is called Shiragi by the Japanese and Hsin-lo by the Chinese
3) Paekje played an integral and vital role in introducing Chinese civilization to Yamato Japan.
Now regarding the Kudara Cannon and Horyu Temple. It was clearly built by Paekje immigrants and in honor of Prince Regent Shotoku. It is of course the oldest wood building in the world. Clearly there were older, more spectacular temples in Korea. It is said that Paekje architects built a beautiful and grand 9 story pagoda in the 8th century A.D. that was the tallest in East Asia. The Mongols burned it down in the 13th century. The best surviving examples of Korean three kingdoms Buddhist temples are in Japan. Burned out floor plans of Paekje temples are identical to Japanese ones. The best book that compares Three Kingdoms art to Yamato’s is “Korean Impact on Japanese Culture: Japan’s Hidden History” by Jon and Alan Corvell.
Here is another interesting article for Korea Haters and Japanophiles to digest….
Puzzle of the past: Who is buried in Kusakabe’s tomb?
By William Wetherall
Far Eastern Economic Review
Vol. 125, No. 31, 2 August 1984, pp. 31-33
Only examination-weary history students in the United States fall for it: “Who is buried in Gen. Ulysses S. Grant’s tomb?” A Japanese version of the joke might be: “Whose honourable cadaver graces the vault of Prince Kusakabe’s Mausoleum?” And no doubt it too would leave many puzzled.
But to some Japanese the loose ends of their early history is no joking matter. Those on the payroll of the mausolea and graves section of the archives and mausolea department of the Imperial Household Agency (IHA), for example, are duty-bound to defend official tomb identifications which were made in the middle of the 19th century and based on shaky oral and written traditions.
A scholar who helped “authenticate” the tombs is reported to have said, “We had a number of imperial burials to locate, and a somewhat larger number of small hills and mounds to work with; unfortunately, we had more mounds than we had emperors, so inevitably there were a few mounds left over.”
One of the rejects was Takamatsuzuka, a comparatively small round tumulus in Nara prefecture’s historical Oke-no-tani (Valley of the Imperial House), which centres on the so-called “sacred line” running due south from the site of the ancient Fujiwara capital in modern Kashiwara city. The mound had been a contender for the mausoleum of Emperor Monmu (AD 697-707), but lost out to a larger tomb in the same area.
When opened in 1972, Takamatsuzuka’s horizontal chamber– though robbed in the past–revealed the most exquisite polychrome murals ever found on the walls of a Japanese tomb. And their unequivocally Korean style cast serious doubts on some cherished chapters of conventional Japanese history–chapters which minimise the role of Koreans and their culture in the early formation of Japanese society. Moreover, a number of discoveries (in both Japan and Korea) since Takamatsuzuka make the early history of Northeast Asia one of the most exciting enigmas in the archaeological world. The most recent Japanese find–involving another non-IHA tomb–deepens the rift between the agency and those who disagree with its identifications.
IHA is the curator for some 900 imperial-family graves, including the mausolea of more than 100 emperors, a handful of empresses, and a number of crown princes who did not live long enough to reign. One such prince was Kusakabe, who died in 689 at the age of 27 before he could succeed his mother, Empress Jito (686-697), who had succeeded his father, Emperor Tenmu (672-686). Jito reigned until Kusakabe’s son, Emperor Monmu, was old enough to ascend. It was a politically important period fraught with intense rivalry, especially within the imperial family: more than one of Kusakabe’s half brothers, if not the crown prince himself, were victim of palace intrigues.
Kusakabe’s “official” tomb was identified in 1862 on the basis of vague historical references and dubious local testimony. It is called Okamiya Tenno Ryo (Emperor Okamiya Mausoleum), reflecting the prince’s posthumous title. But less than 300 m away–within the grounds of the Kasuga shrine in present-day Takatori–was another candidate for the prince’s tomb, a small round mound called Tsukamyojin. When excavated in April this year, Tsukamyojin measured 18 m across–the same size as Takamatsuzuka some 2 km north–but only 3 m high compared to Takamatsuzuka’s 5-m rise. Hence the surprise when excavators unearthed a burial chamber measuring about 3 m long by 2 m wide b 2 in high-some four times the volume of Takamatsuzuka’s approximately, 3 m by 1 m by 1 m dimensions, and of notably finer masonry,
Tsukamyojin was marked by a stone vigil lantern–people living near the shrine claim the lantern has been lit every night since it was erected in 1851. Local folklore has it that informants directed the government to what later became IHA’s Okamiya Tenno Ryo, fearing they would be evicted from their land if they espoused the belief that Kusakabe had been buried in Tsukamyojin.
Excavators at the Nara prefecture Kashiwara Archaeological Research Institute took the local stories at face value, in much the same way as German Homerist Heinrich Schliemann (1822-90) was guided by the Iliad and the Odyssey to the treasures of Troy and Mycenae. And their efforts–like Schliemann’s–have paid royal dividends of a kind. The excavation uncovered a horizontal stone chamber of a unique design found mainly in Korea. Although the ceiling of the vault had been plundered along with most of the grave’s accessories, it appeared from the structure of the double walls that it had been gabled like a house roof. All that remained inside the tomb were fragments from a lacquered “imperial class” wooden coffin; 50 of the 10-cm iron nails that had held it together; a circular gilded-bronze coffin fitting; and six teeth which dental pathologists have determined to be from a person aged in the 20s or 30s. Shards from associated ritual vessels date the mound back to the late seventh century.
While some scholars are confident that no other tomb in the area comes closer to meeting all the conditions that would have to be met by Kusakabe’s mausoleum, most are taking a more cautious position: for one thing, there was no epitaph proclaiming it to be the tomb of Prince Kusakabe. Moreover, IHA’s candidate has never been systematically explored-and may never be, if the agency persists in regarding its graves as something more sacred than historical truth or speculation.
As important as the question of who was buried in Tsukamyojin is who built it. A tomb of similar construction has been found in the area of Korea that was formerly Paekche–the Korean kingdom most closely related to the Yamato court. It was through this umbilical connection with Paekche (subjugated in 660 by a rival Korean kingdom) that Buddhism, and most other element of continental culture, entered Japan–often with the priests, scholars, scribes, and artisans who bore much-coveted knowledge.
Many Paekche refugees fled to Japan, but they were neither the first nor the last waves of Koreans to cross the straits. As late as the beginning of the ninth century, a well-known Japanese peerage identified nearly one-third of the aristocratic clans (with titles of nobility) living in the Heian capital at Kyoto and seven surrounding provinces as being of immigrant–especially Korean–origin.
Doshisha University archaeologist Koichi Mori–one of Japan’s leading authorities on early East Asian tombs–sharply criticises IHA’s policy of disallowing excavation of sites it legally protects as the alleged resting places of imperial-family ancestors. An ardent campaigner against IHA’s a priori designations, Mori rejects the official appellations in favour of “secular” names” that do not presume knowledge of the identity of the person interred.
But IHA’s refusal to permit the tombs in its care to be violated by scientific spades may be a blessing in disguise, if one shares the views of University of Washington historical-linguist Roy Andrew Miller. While siding with Mori’s contention that the sacred tombs have been pillaged in the past (and that IHA’s guard rails do little to prevent further vandalism), Miller believes that the bigger threat to such historical monuments may be the archaeologists themselves. They, he claims, unwittingly destroy more than they preserve by exposing buried artifacts to “the ravages of our polluted air, and to the uncertainties of the hit-or-miss procedures now available for preservation.”
Burial mounds were so prominent in early Japanese society that the late-third up to mid-sixth centuries are known as the Kofun’(old tumulus) period. No book on Japanese cultural history is complete without an aerial photograph of a colossal moated tomb with the square fronts and round backs which give-it the appearance of an inverted keyhole of the old-fashioned “skeleton key” design. ‘The sizes of these tumuli–built by the hundreds testify to the political and economic prowess of the Yamato rulers of the fourth and fifth centuries, the period in which most of the larger mounds were built. The largest examples run nearly 0.5 km in length and compare in volume with the pyramids at Giza in Egypt.
Japanese scholars tend to argue that the earliest round-mound tombs in Japan developed from local burial practices, while continental influences can be seen in the later square-mound tombs. But the keyhole tumuli long have been considered peculiar to Japan, despite certain Chinese tombs with double mounds which suggest their shape.
But the summer of 1983 brought reports from South Korea that a few keyhole tumuli had been found in Kyongsang Namdo province, facing the Japan sea on the southern tip of the peninsula. South Korean scholars dated the tombs to the third and early fourth centuries, making them as old–or older–than the oldest keyhole mounds in Japan. Mori has visited the controversial Korean tombs and agrees that they are indeed keyhole mounds. But he and other Japanese scholars are not convinced they provide the archetypal “missing links.”
The Korean connection in Japanese history has always been known and it was even acknowledged in pre-World War II propaganda which maintained that the emperor was a direct descendant of the gods. But after the war, also, the intimacy of the connection has usually been denied with regard to the genetic roots of the imperial family. And so what has most shocked conservative historians is the strong suggestion that Takamatsuzuka and Tsukamyojin may have enshrined a Japanese prince–if not an emperor–of Korean ancestry.
The evidence is, as yet, too soft to compel unequivocal acceptance of the Korean view that everything of cultural importance in Japan came from the peninsula. But it does serve to remind Japanese, especially those who have trouble viewing their history in the context of greater Asia, that most of the wonders of the insular Yamato world–including its people–probably have continental origins.
You can find more goodies written by Mr. Wetherall at .
Ok, let’s get this right. William Wetherall - Yosha Research
I saw bunch of Koreans at Horyu temple.
They were all like “Uri-minjyoku blah blah blah”
It’s amazing to see their fascination to find “Korea” in “Japan”.
No wonder why Japanese think Koreans are like stalkers.
Japan and Korea both were heavily effected by Chinese culture.
As for Horyu temple, nobody has proven it was built by Koreans.
The original temple was burnt down in 670.
As for Horyu temple, nobody has proven it was built by Koreans.
The original temple was burnt down in 670.On Arbor Day, no less.
They were all like ?Uri-minjyoku blah blah blah??
Nice to see they got the Japanese pronunciation down pat.
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What is it - “Uri-minjyoku..”? Is it intended to be read as “Woori Min-Jok”? So weird pronunciation that at first glance I thought it’s not Korean, isn’t it?
You know what? The same feeling towards Japanese tourists, expecially elder ganeration who took pains to visit the places such as Souel City Hall and Kyungbok Palace with some nostalgic emotion for their colonical days.
Do I have to think this tourists to be a sort of stalkers anyway?
Kleintag wrote:What is it - ?Uri-minjyoku..??? Is it intended to be read as ?Woori Min-Jok??? So weird pronunciation that at first glance I thought it?s not Korean, isn?t it?That’s right, Kleintag, it’s supposed to be “Uri minjok.” (”Woori”? There’s no “woo” pronunciation in Korean!).
The idea that they were supposedly saying “Minjoku” is an indicator that the poster may have been hearing what he/she wanted to…You know what? The same feeling towards Japanese tourists, expecially elder ganeration who took pains to visit the places such as Souel City Hall and Kyungbok Palace with some nostalgic emotion for their colonical days…. which is sort of what you’re doing.
Have you ever actually talked with one of these elderly tourists? Or any Japanese tourist for that matter?
The idea that they are visiting these places out of nostalgia for the colonial period is utter crap. This is something that professional Japan bashers have foisted on the Korean people as an excuse to go knocking down building after building and keep anti-Japanese sentiment high. And I fear you have swallowed it.
In reality, the existence of the old buildings served as an opportunity for Japanese visitors to realize how imposing and often brutal their country’s past rule of Korea was. I had taken more than a few Japanese tourists to Kyongbokkung Palace when the old capitol was still there and it was there that they got some of their first taste of colonial history. They were not proud of what their country did; they were embarrassed.
Chungangchong (?€???²) should have been turned into a colonial-era museum, not torn down.
Well, actually there are some interviews done with those old generations, unfortunately. Of course, it’s written in Korean and it’s some years ago that if you want me to find and show the article onto you, it surely take some time for me. Instead, I have had similar kinds of conversations with Japanese students who were then at Yonsei Univ. by Student Exchange Program. My point is that both sides have some extreme bashers unfortunately.
And let me make myself clear. I’m not anti-Japanese.
I have some good Japanese friends and I like them.
My intention for these comments here is to have a chance to correct each other with patience. Personally I feel stronger tie with Japan than China.
My experiences with Japanese was good in general.
So why to blame Japanese?
And finally, I also agree with you on the Chungangchong issue personally but also I can understand the people who insisted the deconstruction of that historically precious building. Just image how you’d feel if the U.S. governing center after WWII just in front of your shrine or palace. Historically, that building was surely precious one, so I was so afraid, either.
But there’re some mixed feelings though, I can’t deny. Have a good night.
Well, actually there are some interviews done with those old generations, unfortunately. Of course, it?s written in Korean and it?s some years ago that if you want me to find and show the article onto you, it surely take some time for me.I suppose it’s possible there are some people like that. But I think it’s just as likely that agenda-driven “journalists” tweaked the interviews.
It is a page right out of the same playbook Shaku-con is using here and at his blog: find some individuals with a particularly disagreeable opinion, viewpoint, whatever, and then try to depict them as typical of the general population.Instead, I have had similar kinds of conversations with Japanese students who were then at Yonsei Univ. by Student Exchange Program.I’m a bit skeptical. I’m a bit skeptical that more than a few Japanese citizens with a mindset to come to Korea to learn Korean would hold such beliefs about Korea. No disrespect, Kleintag, but I suspect your own assumptions about what they might believe caused you to prejudge what they said.
I could be wrong, though. I just don’t think there are many such people.My point is that both sides have some extreme bashers unfortunately.Yes, but I don’t think the extreme bashers usually come from Japan to study in Korea. And I’m also disappointed that this Japanese straw oldman was used as a pretext to raze the former capitol building and National Museum.And let me make myself clear. I?m not anti-Japanese.
I have some good Japanese friends and I like them.I don’t think you are anti-Japanese. But I think some of your words point to one of the few legitimate concerns of the Japan apologists, that anti-Japanese sentiment is so engrained that it automatically kicks in even among many Koreans with a propsensity to like Japan.My intention for these comments here is to have a chance to correct each other with patience. Personally I feel stronger tie with Japan than China.I only hope more and more Koreans feel that way. China is no friend of Korea, north or south.My experiences with Japanese was good in general.
So why to blame Japanese?Sorry if it seemed like I was picking on you.And finally, I also agree with you on the Chungangchong issue personallySo did a majority of the people of Korea. Unfortunately, as with too many hot-button issues in Korea, discourse is trampled by the people who scream the loudest. The majority that wanted to preserve the building remained silent, thinking they were alone in their “pro-Japanese” views of the building.but also I can understand the people who insisted the deconstruction of that historically precious building. Just image how you?d feel if the U.S. governing center after WWII just in front of your shrine or palace.They couldn’t possibly have felt worse than Jews did toward Auschwitz (which was also the subject of a destroy-it-or-preserve-it discussion).
Chungangchong was not just the colonial administration headquarters. It was also a symbol, to the Koreans of the day, of Koreans winning their independence. It’s no coincidence that this building was chosen for the founding of the Republic of Korea, and then was used as the ROK government headquarters for twice as long as it was the Japanese colonial headquarters.
Kushibo : Yeah, it very unfortunate for us to find that we have reached some concensus but still gaps to be filled bilaterly. It’s also very unfortunate for boths countries to get more nationalistc day by day for internal situations. Anyway, media could lead a mass to a certain direction and on that part, I agree with you but what would be real worry is that once formed, it has its own life among the mass for a long time. And for that matter, both South Korea and Japan are not free from the suspicion you pointed out.
Still, nationalism works well in both countries. is’s like when Mr. Koizumi visited Yasukuni Shrine for all the opposition from the neighboring countries. Regardless of its international outcome, Mr. Koizumi could attract more voters from that case.
The same logic can be applied to South Korea.
I wish you could take this into account anyway
chonko : hey, the term ‘dakwang’ and ‘udong’ are korea, not Japanese. ‘Takuan’ or ‘udon’ is of course japanese. And the reason I wrote ‘woori min-jok’, I didn’t wrote its pronunciation symbols, just another korean letters for confirming my reading - the spells generally used in Korea. Otherwise, [uri minj?k] - I don’t know how to put that pronunciation symbol - a reversed ‘c’ - here so put ‘?’ in that place. In korea, there are many words now considered as korean idiom but in fact are the heritage of colonial past. So the difference between Korean ‘dakwang’ and Japanese ‘takuan’ in proninciation is quite natural.
And you should understand the situation like this, that I meant to be confused by ‘minjyoku’ like an American can be confused by the pronunciation of “McDonald” and a Japanese like you can by the proninciation of some Korean style japanese words.
If someone ask you if it’s ‘cancer’ by ‘?????³??³’, then is it something you have to be upset. In my conversation with Japanese friends, I often face this kind of understanding problems and then asked each other to find more accurate pronunciation. If you don’t want that, just keep writing and pronunciating like ‘uri minjyokyu..’. I recommend another way ’cause if you wrote the way I suggest, then more Korean can understand you more quickly. And as for the last Japanese sentence,
just cut if off the bulletin and post on 2CH or enjoy Japan in Naver. It doesn’t seem to fit here.
But if you think it a truth so you don’t have to put that rude expression away, then just leave it. You will be appreciated by many Korean nationalists for assuring their view on Japan, as well as Japanese nationalists of the same opinion like you.
kleintag,
I am having difficulty understanding what you are trying to say in the last portion of your post directed to me. Would you mind translating it into English?
chonko : Hmm, which part? the part starting with ‘cancer’? Or ‘?????³??³’? I’m sorry not to know English that can satisfy your eyes.
Well, actually there are many countries whose new government building has been set to its old colonial ones. It’s partly because of its formerly rooted administration system and partly because of ths lack of resources for building wholly new utilities. Regarding it as a symbol for independence has not worked in Korea for a long time.
And it was the german who decided to keep the Auschwitz as it were not to forget their ethical war cimes and I think it therefore somehow irrelevant. I don’t know what happened to the building that U.S. military authority used for governing Japan after WWII but it can be compared to the feeling that would arise in many Japanese people when they looked at that building.
On this part, I would ask your understanding because it’s not the feeling Japanese people can understand.
Personally I think future is the most important thing between two countries but what is certain is that in the future there will be another Japan unlike Japan, I mean, a country just with its economical overwhelming power bust with re-emerging military presence in the far east asia. And for a country like ROK to go hand in hand with that new Japan, surely there is still something that makes it think again for some colonial records and afterward proceedings. Let me take an example for this. The case of raping middle school gril in okinawa a few years ago was reported on many foreign magazines. On Economist of England, there were an article that described the resentment of Japanese people on the case. Although the U.S. military authority expressed their sorry for the accident, it took finally Mr. Clinton’s directly apology to cool down the anger around the nation. But, what is important anyway is that for all the cases, Japan and U.S. are still very close allies to each other. Likewise, anyway I think Korea will have to take its directoin in the near future - whether with Japan and U.S. or with China in some years from now. Personally I prefer to form a close relationship with Japan because two countries share many cultural backgrounds inherited from either thousands of years of communication or 35 years of colonial past and together can be a great force balancing powers in the region with a country of 1.4 billion people. I hope in near future, there should come more turning points for both countries to get closer.
Anyway, Japan also will have to decide. Solely with U.S. or with U.S. and some other neighbors in the region. That’s the choice your own people will make.
As you know, in 90s, in the world economic surveys, Japan has been always separated from other asian regions because its economic scale was too big and its economic stage was far more advanced than other asian countries. Still Japan is a big country with an economic scale 6 times larger than that of ROK.
But if Japan remaining apart from other asian countries still in near future, it might bring a undisirable situation in the region, the one that I don’t want to see in reality.
Kleintag wrote:
What is it - ?Uri-minjyoku..??? Is it intended to be read as ?Woori Min-Jok??? So weird pronunciation that at first glance I thought it?s not Korean, isn?t it?
That?s right, Kleintag, it?s supposed to be ?Uri minjok.?? (??Woori??? There?s no ?woo?? pronunciation in Korean!).
Well, on the same token, what is “arigado gojaimasu” and “jabutong?” or “gombangwa”? Looks more Chinese or Korean than Korean.
Usually, I can tell Koreans right off the bat in Japan when they I hear “gombangwa, arigado gojaimas” (Konbanwa, arigatou gozaimasu) or when they try to look for “dakwang” for their “udong” which I never could understand until someone told me that they were refering to “takuan” for their “udon”. Never could understand why they love tsukemono so much… (Try having a Korean pronouce “tsukemono”..comes out to be “chookemono”.
Also, ever heard of “pijja hut”?
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“Thank you, I am from a cancer country person.”
Kleintag (#13), I would also like to see South Korea (or unified Korea) much closer politically with Japan. I think the democracies of East Asia must work together to counter China.
As for the building, you ask me to undertand how South Koreans feel about the building, but my point is that how people felt about it ws largely affected by popular nonsense about the buildings, including the idea you stated, that many older Japanese visitors saw the building (and others like it) as a source of pride over their past colonialism. Their opinions on the matter are being nudged (or shoved) by agenda-driven media.
Still, most Koreans wanted the building preserved. Too bad they didn’t speak up in time.
Chonko’s probably just Chewie anyway. Chewie said the same thing in another thread.
Sorry, JYC…I am not “Chewie” although I think that is a pretty cool/funny moniker that you have given to whoever the recipient may be. Is there also a “Han” or “Luke” as well? If anything, I would prefer to be called “Yoda.”
Kleintag, I really dont understand the point of your comments. Are you saying that Koreans expect all foreigners to pronouce their language perfectly even on the first time? Or is it that you think it is fine to ridicule of make fun of foreigners because of their accent? Please let me know whether or not Koreans think it funny and acceptable to make fun of foreigners for not being able to pronounce Korean perfectly. Most people in the world would think this to be very rude…which was my point.
Sorry, JYC…I am not “Chewie” although I think that is a pretty cool/funny moniker that you have given to whoever the recipient may be. Is there also a “Han” or “Luke” as well? If anything, I would prefer to be called “Yoda.”
Kleintag, I really dont understand the point of your comments. Are you saying that Koreans expect all foreigners to pronouce their language perfectly even on the first time? Or is it that you think it is fine to ridicule or make fun of foreigners because of their accent? Please let me know whether or not Koreans think it funny and acceptable to make fun of foreigners for not being able to pronounce Korean perfectly. Most people in the world would think this to be very rude…which was my point.
Or is your point that Koreans can pronounce Japanese or English perfectly?
Chonko wrote:Kleintag, I really dont understand the point of your comments. Are you saying that Koreans expect all foreigners to pronouce their language perfectly even on the first time? Or is it that you think it is fine to ridicule or make fun of foreigners because of their accent? Please let me know whether or not Koreans think it funny and acceptable to make fun of foreigners for not being able to pronounce Korean perfectly. Most people in the world would think this to be very rude??which was my point.I am not sure what Kleintag was getting at, but in Korea it’s quite the opposite: usually, if a non-kyopo foreigner says just about anything in Korean, no matter how simple, how mangled, or how mispronounced, it is greeted with a sincerely exclaimed, “?????§? ??? ?????????°??!” (You speak Korean so well!)
I am not sure what Kleintag was getting at, but in Korea it?s quite the opposite: usually, if a non-kyopo foreigner says just about anything in Korean, no matter how simple, how mangled, or how mispronounced, it is greeted with a sincerely exclaimed, ??????§? ??? ?????????°??!?? (You speak Korean so well!)
Well, that is good to hear!
Well, if you’re serious, then I’m answering as such.
With the first ‘uri ..” stuff, I meant no offense.
I just wanted to see if it’s the meaning of my guess.
And it’s so common in other countries as well.
Let me take an example for you. A few weeks ago I met a Japanese government official, and when we came to face some misunderstanding, we checked each other’s pronunciation, both my Japanese and her Korean, to complement our understanding. So I don’t understand why you’re so obsessed with the pronunciation stuff.
Besides, Kushibo. During my stay in Tokyo, my Japanese partners also told the same way whenever I tried to speak a correct Japanese sentence. Also the same case in China as well. I think anybody would try to encourage a foreigner when he tries to speak a language of host country. But, still I don’t understand why my question became so serious with Japanese. I mean it, no offense. If I wanted that, then I would not deny but it’s not the case for me.
Anyway, chonko, if it looked like a kind of insult, then my apology to you personally. With many other issues to argue against, it’s not the subject for sure. Will my apology help you feel better? I hope so.