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	<title>Comments on: OOB:  Korean Crises, Linguistic &#38; Otherwise</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri,  5 Sep 2008 10:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The messenger</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/#comment-146573</link>
		<dc:creator>The messenger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1854#comment-146573</guid>
		<description>gosh... you expats...if you don't like korea then GET THE FUCK OUT! its simple as that... i doubt that koreans want you there anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gosh&#8230; you expats&#8230;if you don&#8217;t like korea then GET THE FUCK OUT! its simple as that&#8230; i doubt that koreans want you there anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: jodi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/#comment-20459</link>
		<dc:creator>jodi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 17:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1854#comment-20459</guid>
		<description>ryan, it's hard to take your criticism seriously when you use a lot of cursing, but i think you completely missed the point here.
the "culturally sensitive person" was critisizing herself. she was blaming herself for not being open to new things when she felt she probably should be more open-minded. she was not intentionally blaming korea for her own lack of openness. so please give her credit for her honesty and the ability to see what was wrong from her side (and i don't think it matters what her racial background is, gyopo, non-gyopo, etc.)

i also want to point out that there is a difference between korea-bashing (which is whining for the sake of being an ass) and raising issues or questions that don't make sense to someone and which, well, may be a blow to a nation's (Korea's) ego but are grounds for good discussion, education, etc. i don't think such people who raise these issues (no matter how "ugly" these thoughts may seem) should be made to feel guilty for questioning things that go unexplained to them (and again, it doesn't matter what your ethnic background is).

and just as you accuse people of seeing the bad or dark side of a culture, i guess i accuse you for seeing only the bad or dark side of my post.

i mentioned gyopos who have returned to korea and have had very positive experiences. the post was not dedicated to the entire criticism of korea although criticism within the post did exist but is that a crime? it wasn't hateful criticism. it was the sort of stuff people say amongst themselves but are too afraid to say in public as they fear the exact same reaction you gave.

maybe this will get me in trouble some day but i am not afraid of such reactions like yours and i am willing to call things as i see them in the hopes that things can be explained to me and that discussion can be generated.

i don't think i owe anyone an apology for writing that post. it had some stuff that was difficult to hear but it wasn't written out of pure hate. 

sure i get frustrated living here and that frustration may have beared its ugly side at the end of the post, but as a person who has been living overseas yourself, i think you can acknolwedge that it is quite normal for someone to feel this way once in a while. when it becomes unhealthy then it is time to leave, but you can't expect everyone to love it anywhere all the time.

if the post came off as being racist and hateful, then i apologize as that was not my intention. (i didn't publish the post immediately after writing it but waited a day and read it once more before putting it on the blog as i wanted to be sure that i wasn't coming off as being too unfair. i'm glad i waited. i went back and softened some things that i was feeling strongly about and perhaps unfairly during the heat of the moment when writing it.)

if you are still calling for my head on a silver platter, then i am williing to discuss this further offline. you know the blog's address and the contact information is on there.

thanks for hearing me out....
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ryan, it&#8217;s hard to take your criticism seriously when you use a lot of cursing, but i think you completely missed the point here.<br />
the &#8220;culturally sensitive person&#8221; was critisizing herself. she was blaming herself for not being open to new things when she felt she probably should be more open-minded. she was not intentionally blaming korea for her own lack of openness. so please give her credit for her honesty and the ability to see what was wrong from her side (and i don&#8217;t think it matters what her racial background is, gyopo, non-gyopo, etc.)</p>
<p>i also want to point out that there is a difference between korea-bashing (which is whining for the sake of being an ass) and raising issues or questions that don&#8217;t make sense to someone and which, well, may be a blow to a nation&#8217;s (Korea&#8217;s) ego but are grounds for good discussion, education, etc. i don&#8217;t think such people who raise these issues (no matter how &#8220;ugly&#8221; these thoughts may seem) should be made to feel guilty for questioning things that go unexplained to them (and again, it doesn&#8217;t matter what your ethnic background is).</p>
<p>and just as you accuse people of seeing the bad or dark side of a culture, i guess i accuse you for seeing only the bad or dark side of my post.</p>
<p>i mentioned gyopos who have returned to korea and have had very positive experiences. the post was not dedicated to the entire criticism of korea although criticism within the post did exist but is that a crime? it wasn&#8217;t hateful criticism. it was the sort of stuff people say amongst themselves but are too afraid to say in public as they fear the exact same reaction you gave.</p>
<p>maybe this will get me in trouble some day but i am not afraid of such reactions like yours and i am willing to call things as i see them in the hopes that things can be explained to me and that discussion can be generated.</p>
<p>i don&#8217;t think i owe anyone an apology for writing that post. it had some stuff that was difficult to hear but it wasn&#8217;t written out of pure hate. </p>
<p>sure i get frustrated living here and that frustration may have beared its ugly side at the end of the post, but as a person who has been living overseas yourself, i think you can acknolwedge that it is quite normal for someone to feel this way once in a while. when it becomes unhealthy then it is time to leave, but you can&#8217;t expect everyone to love it anywhere all the time.</p>
<p>if the post came off as being racist and hateful, then i apologize as that was not my intention. (i didn&#8217;t publish the post immediately after writing it but waited a day and read it once more before putting it on the blog as i wanted to be sure that i wasn&#8217;t coming off as being too unfair. i&#8217;m glad i waited. i went back and softened some things that i was feeling strongly about and perhaps unfairly during the heat of the moment when writing it.)</p>
<p>if you are still calling for my head on a silver platter, then i am williing to discuss this further offline. you know the blog&#8217;s address and the contact information is on there.</p>
<p>thanks for hearing me out&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/#comment-20458</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2005 01:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1854#comment-20458</guid>
		<description>In short.. if you think you can harmonise or if you think you can?t..then you?re probably right.


In other words, how well you fit in/find your place/harmonize depends on your attitude? Can't argue with that.

As for my own two cents, well, I tend to be rather verbose when voicing my opinion, so I'll try to keep this short. Every place has its good points and bad points, and I try to focus on the positive. It's not always easy, but I do try. There are a lot of things that I don't like about Korea, but I try not to dwell on them. I try not to bash Korea either, but I believe it is possible to have a reasonable discussion of a country's shortcomings. I guess it all really boils down to attitude, which I suppose lines up with what you were saying.

I wouldn't worry too much about the dark side, though. We all have negative moments, and just because you dislike something about Korea doesn't make you a bad person--as long as you don't let that negativity fester and take over your whole outlook.

Don't know if that made any sense...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In short.. if you think you can harmonise or if you think you can?t..then you?re probably right.</p>
<p>In other words, how well you fit in/find your place/harmonize depends on your attitude? Can&#8217;t argue with that.</p>
<p>As for my own two cents, well, I tend to be rather verbose when voicing my opinion, so I&#8217;ll try to keep this short. Every place has its good points and bad points, and I try to focus on the positive. It&#8217;s not always easy, but I do try. There are a lot of things that I don&#8217;t like about Korea, but I try not to dwell on them. I try not to bash Korea either, but I believe it is possible to have a reasonable discussion of a country&#8217;s shortcomings. I guess it all really boils down to attitude, which I suppose lines up with what you were saying.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t worry too much about the dark side, though. We all have negative moments, and just because you dislike something about Korea doesn&#8217;t make you a bad person&#8211;as long as you don&#8217;t let that negativity fester and take over your whole outlook.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t know if that made any sense&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/#comment-20457</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1854#comment-20457</guid>
		<description>I'll tell you what sucks about Korea... staying at work way too late or coming in way too early to do business with North America. I'm feeling it too......is this dark side????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll tell you what sucks about Korea&#8230; staying at work way too late or coming in way too early to do business with North America. I&#8217;m feeling it too&#8230;&#8230;is this dark side????</p>
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		<title>By: foreigner</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/#comment-20456</link>
		<dc:creator>foreigner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 05:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1854#comment-20456</guid>
		<description>I'm reading boring news from the Worker's Hellhole about the Dear Leader getting free electricity :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m reading boring news from the Worker&#8217;s Hellhole about the Dear Leader getting free electricity <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Kushibo</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/#comment-20455</link>
		<dc:creator>Kushibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 05:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1854#comment-20455</guid>
		<description>Since you're using a proxy server, by "working" do you mean reading glorious news from the Worker's Paradise about the Dear Leader?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you&#8217;re using a proxy server, by &#8220;working&#8221; do you mean reading glorious news from the Worker&#8217;s Paradise about the Dear Leader?</p>
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		<title>By: foreigner</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/#comment-20454</link>
		<dc:creator>foreigner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 05:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1854#comment-20454</guid>
		<description>Ahh, the "invisible hand" of the proxy server...I'm in an office building in Seoul right now, writing this instead of working ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, the &#8220;invisible hand&#8221; of the proxy server&#8230;I&#8217;m in an office building in Seoul right now, writing this instead of working <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Kushibo</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/#comment-20453</link>
		<dc:creator>Kushibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 05:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1854#comment-20453</guid>
		<description>foreigner wrote:the longer I?m here (five years and counting)The longer you're where? Your flag says you're in the U.S. of A.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>foreigner wrote:the longer I?m here (five years and counting)The longer you&#8217;re where? Your flag says you&#8217;re in the U.S. of A.</p>
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		<title>By: foreigner</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/#comment-20452</link>
		<dc:creator>foreigner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 04:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1854#comment-20452</guid>
		<description>"As a non-Gyopo mid-term expat...." Huh? When is your term up? Anyway, it's a mixed bag for waegukin in Korea, and probably always will be...the longer I'm here (five years and counting) the more entrenched the social problems seem, and also becomes more apparent that there are aspects of the society that deserve respect. In other words, I take this place at face value. Maybe that's what Ryan means by "harmonisation"--but its no different from how I lived in the States. That's why I find either extreme of some commentors here -- that Koreans epitomize every vice known, or that they're a guileless, endlessly fascinating bunch -- a little bizarre. I like that the Marmot shows resepect, but does not pull punches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As a non-Gyopo mid-term expat&#8230;.&#8221; Huh? When is your term up? Anyway, it&#8217;s a mixed bag for waegukin in Korea, and probably always will be&#8230;the longer I&#8217;m here (five years and counting) the more entrenched the social problems seem, and also becomes more apparent that there are aspects of the society that deserve respect. In other words, I take this place at face value. Maybe that&#8217;s what Ryan means by &#8220;harmonisation&#8221;&#8211;but its no different from how I lived in the States. That&#8217;s why I find either extreme of some commentors here &#8212; that Koreans epitomize every vice known, or that they&#8217;re a guileless, endlessly fascinating bunch &#8212; a little bizarre. I like that the Marmot shows resepect, but does not pull punches.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/07/26/oob-korean-crises-linguistic-otherwise/#comment-20451</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 01:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1854#comment-20451</guid>
		<description>Charles, I accept your post on my poor usage of the word assimilate. Even though I work for a Korean company and have a post grad degree from a Korean school.. excuse the metapor... I still stick out like dogs balls and will never be assimiliated. 

However, that wasn't the point of my post. The easiest thing to do is wear ones ignorance on your sleeve and by constantly pointing out what is wrong with Korea and Koreans you are building a wall that will impede any kind of allow me to say integration..no no I'll go with harmonisation.... reinfocing the notion of us and them (don't wanna get into Ed. Said so will stop now). In short.. if you think you can harmonise or if you think you can't..then you're probably right. Would you agree?

Glad my poor word selection made you feel compelled to post. As a veteran of 10 years, it'd be great to get your two cents worth on the Korea bashing of others and attempts to find your own place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles, I accept your post on my poor usage of the word assimilate. Even though I work for a Korean company and have a post grad degree from a Korean school.. excuse the metapor&#8230; I still stick out like dogs balls and will never be assimiliated. </p>
<p>However, that wasn&#8217;t the point of my post. The easiest thing to do is wear ones ignorance on your sleeve and by constantly pointing out what is wrong with Korea and Koreans you are building a wall that will impede any kind of allow me to say integration..no no I&#8217;ll go with harmonisation&#8230;. reinfocing the notion of us and them (don&#8217;t wanna get into Ed. Said so will stop now). In short.. if you think you can harmonise or if you think you can&#8217;t..then you&#8217;re probably right. Would you agree?</p>
<p>Glad my poor word selection made you feel compelled to post. As a veteran of 10 years, it&#8217;d be great to get your two cents worth on the Korea bashing of others and attempts to find your own place.</p>
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