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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t box Beijing in / Doom and gloom for the PRC?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu,  4 Dec 2008 04:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: snow</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/#comment-18630</link>
		<dc:creator>snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1721#comment-18630</guid>
		<description>Very interesting comments, Zhang Fei, all the more reasons to remain wary of the Chinese long into the future.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting comments, Zhang Fei, all the more reasons to remain wary of the Chinese long into the future.</p>
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		<title>By: zhang_fei</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/#comment-18629</link>
		<dc:creator>zhang_fei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1721#comment-18629</guid>
		<description>Epoch Times article: These are Marxists. Control the means of communication. Embrace the means of communication. Fill it with Chinese voices. If they can block the outside and block relationships between Chinese voices, no one will listen.

Actually, controlling unorthodox views (especially those that could challenge the ruling power) is an ancient Chinese tradition having little to do with Marxism. Collective punishment, book burning, et al were all employed with equal vigor. Owning a copy of what the government defined as seditious material was a capital offense, long before 1949. Part of the Chinese government's method of retaining control over Chinese minds is to glorify the past, convincing ordinary Chinese that they have nothing to learn from foreigners except their technology. So ancient and glorious a culture cannot possibly have anything to learn from outsiders except with respect to ephemeral things such as music or art. Highly-evolved Chinese political and moral values, in particular, must be walled off from nouveau riche foreigners, who have no concept of true civilization (the epitome of which is, of course, embodied in the Chinese people). What may not be apparent to expats like Ethan Guttman is that the Chinese view the West as some intrepid (but unfortunate) European explorers of the past viewed their cannibal captors - as people who had a leg up on them, but were in no way civilized as they were. And none of these Chinese views have anything to do with Communism, having persisted through thousands of years, in which one neighboring "barbarian" after another had its day in the sun, before being subdued by the Chinese state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Epoch Times article: These are Marxists. Control the means of communication. Embrace the means of communication. Fill it with Chinese voices. If they can block the outside and block relationships between Chinese voices, no one will listen.</p>
<p>Actually, controlling unorthodox views (especially those that could challenge the ruling power) is an ancient Chinese tradition having little to do with Marxism. Collective punishment, book burning, et al were all employed with equal vigor. Owning a copy of what the government defined as seditious material was a capital offense, long before 1949. Part of the Chinese government&#8217;s method of retaining control over Chinese minds is to glorify the past, convincing ordinary Chinese that they have nothing to learn from foreigners except their technology. So ancient and glorious a culture cannot possibly have anything to learn from outsiders except with respect to ephemeral things such as music or art. Highly-evolved Chinese political and moral values, in particular, must be walled off from nouveau riche foreigners, who have no concept of true civilization (the epitome of which is, of course, embodied in the Chinese people). What may not be apparent to expats like Ethan Guttman is that the Chinese view the West as some intrepid (but unfortunate) European explorers of the past viewed their cannibal captors - as people who had a leg up on them, but were in no way civilized as they were. And none of these Chinese views have anything to do with Communism, having persisted through thousands of years, in which one neighboring &#8220;barbarian&#8221; after another had its day in the sun, before being subdued by the Chinese state.</p>
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		<title>By: beverins</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/#comment-18628</link>
		<dc:creator>beverins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1721#comment-18628</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=14010" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=14010&lt;/a&gt;

and

&lt;a href="http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-1-7/25560.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-1-7/25560.html&lt;/a&gt;

Entrepreneurship tempered by a heavy dose of the Golden Shield V3. Ironically, American companies are only too eager to assist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=14010" rel="nofollow">http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=14010</a></p>
<p>and</p>
<p><a href="http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-1-7/25560.html" rel="nofollow">http://english.epochtimes.com/.....25560.html</a></p>
<p>Entrepreneurship tempered by a heavy dose of the Golden Shield V3. Ironically, American companies are only too eager to assist.</p>
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		<title>By: zhang_fei</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/#comment-18627</link>
		<dc:creator>zhang_fei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1721#comment-18627</guid>
		<description>Mark Steyn: Unlike the demoralised late-period Soviet nomenklatura, Beijing?€™s leadership does not accept that the cause is lost: unlike most outside analysts, they do not assume that the world?€™s first economically viable form of Communism is merely an interim phase en route to a free - or even free-ish - society.

The land upon which China stands has been ruled by despots since the first Chinese state sprung up along the banks of the Yellow River thousands of years ago. The collapse of the current regime is not simply not inevitable, it is unlikely - China's mechanisms for imperial control have been studied and refined for millenia, and they have worked, interrupted only by periodic changes in dynasty, a la the king is dead, long live the king.

As to China's economic system, it is anything but communism - it is communism transitioning to unregulated free market capitalism, Singapore-style. The Chinese government is jettisoning state-owned enterprises as quickly as it can - this is why unrest in China is relatively high, because the government is abandoning the promises made to the parents of today's Chinese workers - the government will keep the fruits of everything you earn, but your children will have guaranteed jobs and housing. More and more, today's Chinese workers will have to fend for themselves in a market economy. This is why I believe China's economy will boom for decades hence - for the first time in Chinese history, the Chinese genius for entrepreneurship is being unleashed - commerce is actively lauded instead of disparaged, as it has been for millenia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark Steyn: Unlike the demoralised late-period Soviet nomenklatura, Beijing?€™s leadership does not accept that the cause is lost: unlike most outside analysts, they do not assume that the world?€™s first economically viable form of Communism is merely an interim phase en route to a free - or even free-ish - society.</p>
<p>The land upon which China stands has been ruled by despots since the first Chinese state sprung up along the banks of the Yellow River thousands of years ago. The collapse of the current regime is not simply not inevitable, it is unlikely - China&#8217;s mechanisms for imperial control have been studied and refined for millenia, and they have worked, interrupted only by periodic changes in dynasty, a la the king is dead, long live the king.</p>
<p>As to China&#8217;s economic system, it is anything but communism - it is communism transitioning to unregulated free market capitalism, Singapore-style. The Chinese government is jettisoning state-owned enterprises as quickly as it can - this is why unrest in China is relatively high, because the government is abandoning the promises made to the parents of today&#8217;s Chinese workers - the government will keep the fruits of everything you earn, but your children will have guaranteed jobs and housing. More and more, today&#8217;s Chinese workers will have to fend for themselves in a market economy. This is why I believe China&#8217;s economy will boom for decades hence - for the first time in Chinese history, the Chinese genius for entrepreneurship is being unleashed - commerce is actively lauded instead of disparaged, as it has been for millenia.</p>
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		<title>By: Shenzhen Whitey</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/#comment-18626</link>
		<dc:creator>Shenzhen Whitey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1721#comment-18626</guid>
		<description>Should be: ?€œ?€?YYYY?€™ was, is and always will be a part of China.?€?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should be: ?€œ?€?YYYY?€™ was, is and always will be a part of China.?€?</p>
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		<title>By: Shenzhen Whitey</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/#comment-18625</link>
		<dc:creator>Shenzhen Whitey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1721#comment-18625</guid>
		<description>Expansionism has nothing to do with communism, but communism does allow the government to exert enough control over the media and intellectuals to stay on message. "'YYYY' is and always will be a part of China."

'SW' makes me sound like Sex Worker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Expansionism has nothing to do with communism, but communism does allow the government to exert enough control over the media and intellectuals to stay on message. &#8220;&#8216;YYYY&#8217; is and always will be a part of China.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8216;SW&#8217; makes me sound like Sex Worker.</p>
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		<title>By: zhang_fei</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/#comment-18624</link>
		<dc:creator>zhang_fei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1721#comment-18624</guid>
		<description>Koreans can relax about China - becoming a Chinese province isn't as bad as it's made out to be. Koreans can still speak Korean, although they'll probably have revert to the Chinese writing system instead of using hangul. And Korean will be referred to as a Chinese dialect instead of as a distinct language. Oh - and one more thing - every Korean schoolchild will have to learn Mandarin and most broadcast stations will be in Mandarin (unless China uses the one country, two systems setup up it uses in Hong Kong). But isn't that the latest craze in South Korea - learning Mandarin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Koreans can relax about China - becoming a Chinese province isn&#8217;t as bad as it&#8217;s made out to be. Koreans can still speak Korean, although they&#8217;ll probably have revert to the Chinese writing system instead of using hangul. And Korean will be referred to as a Chinese dialect instead of as a distinct language. Oh - and one more thing - every Korean schoolchild will have to learn Mandarin and most broadcast stations will be in Mandarin (unless China uses the one country, two systems setup up it uses in Hong Kong). But isn&#8217;t that the latest craze in South Korea - learning Mandarin?</p>
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		<title>By: zhang_fei</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/#comment-18623</link>
		<dc:creator>zhang_fei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1721#comment-18623</guid>
		<description>ZF: Kissinger?€™s article knows a thing or two about European history and geopolitics, but nothing about the Orient.

That should have read: Kissinger knows a thing or two about European history and geopolitics, but nothing about the Orient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ZF: Kissinger?€™s article knows a thing or two about European history and geopolitics, but nothing about the Orient.</p>
<p>That should have read: Kissinger knows a thing or two about European history and geopolitics, but nothing about the Orient.</p>
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		<title>By: zhang_fei</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/#comment-18622</link>
		<dc:creator>zhang_fei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1721#comment-18622</guid>
		<description>snow: Work deals with the Chinese but always be wary. I wouldn?€™t trust them as long as the Communists are in power. Smile and shake hands, but behind the scenes, always be watching.

Chinese expansionism has nothing to do with Communism. Every time the Chinese state has been strong, it has expanded. Why? Because territorial expansion is like going fishing or hunting wildlife - you get resources for free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>snow: Work deals with the Chinese but always be wary. I wouldn?€™t trust them as long as the Communists are in power. Smile and shake hands, but behind the scenes, always be watching.</p>
<p>Chinese expansionism has nothing to do with Communism. Every time the Chinese state has been strong, it has expanded. Why? Because territorial expansion is like going fishing or hunting wildlife - you get resources for free.</p>
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		<title>By: snow</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/15/dont-box-beijing-in-doom-and-gloom-for-the-prc/#comment-18621</link>
		<dc:creator>snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1721#comment-18621</guid>
		<description>Work deals with the Chinese but always be wary. I wouldn't trust them as long as the Communists are in power. Smile and shake hands, but behind the scenes, always be watching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Work deals with the Chinese but always be wary. I wouldn&#8217;t trust them as long as the Communists are in power. Smile and shake hands, but behind the scenes, always be watching.</p>
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