Wednesday marks the fifth anniversary of the historic June 2000 meeting between then ROK President Kim Dae-jung and DPRK leader Kim Jong-il and the two countries plan to mark the occasion with a three-day shindig in Pyongyang.
On Tuesday, the civic delegation will hold a joint march with North Koreans in downtown Pyongyang before an opening ceremony at the Kim Il Sung Stadium in the evening. On Wednesday, speeches will be given by representatives of South and North Korean civic groups and leaders of Korean communities outside the peninsula. Art performances will follow on Wednesday and Thursday evening.
[...]
…the number of South Korean participants was still under discussion, as North Korea was demanding it send no more than 300 delegates, including government officials.
No word on if the delegation will be staying at the uncompleted Ryugyong Hotel.
Meanwhile, we were assured — again — that the United States has no intentions of doing anything “stealthy” against those fun-loving kids who run the DPRK.
June 14, 2005 A former U.S. ambassador to South Korea and a former U.S. official dealing with North Korean affairs agreed yesterday that there was little chance the United States would target North Korea’s nuclear weapons technology in a military strike, because Seoul would oppose the idea and success would be far from certain.
[...]
“Suppose the U.S. can get all the nuclear weapons and the North Korean leadership,” said Mr. Gregg. “They still cannot stop the North Korean artillery, which can kill hundreds of thousands of South Koreans within 24 hours.”
[...]
Concern about the possibility of a military strike targeting North Korea’s nuclear weapons capacity has been escalating in South Korea in recent months as the standoff over Pyongyang’s nuclear program has continued.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
88 Comments
Kushibo,
I figured Hahm Chaihark was Hahm Chaibong’s brother and your prof. But I was a bit confused because I thought you were in the science field (maybe medical?), and Hahm Chaihark is a law professor, if my recollection is right. The only time I’ve come across Hahm Chaihark is when I read a law review article he wrote about the Confucian origin of the Korean legal system. Am I mistaken somewhere here?
Hahm Chaihark is now the head of the Korean Studies department at Yonsei.
And my field of medical sociology, because it is so heavily focused on Korean and KA populations, is by necessity Korean Studies-dependent. In fact, it was my intention to do the same PhD work at Yonsei as a Korean Studies doctorate, but I’ve decided to do it as medical sociology at UHM or UCSF (or possibly as public health at Harvard or Johns Hopkins).
I have cut down on the number of links, limiting them to only those I felt were absolutely needed, although I guess I could have cut out one or two more.
I am now self-consciously less asinine, although I did make two remarks (using the word “shindig” and the hotel reference) that I suppose should have be excised if I wanted to be totally hardnews. It could have been much, much “worse.”
But a little fun never hurt anyone, did it?
I didn’t do anything funny with the headline (Or did I?).
I will admit that this post is lacking any serious analysis, but I am still learning a bit and wanted to stick strictly to the basics.
Good improvement Sheldon.
If I were on the receiving end of all the negative criticism (however constructive) you’ve received lately, I’d have been a lot more defensive and whiny in following posts. Well done.
Shelton:
If Baduk’s interpretation of that Donna Summers number, then I guess we may expect more pop song allusions. Alas, most of them are beyond me, as I’ve never been very good at paying close attention to song lyrics.
I’d say in the future: leave “shindig” in, but omit the gratuitous reference. Most readers will know (a) what “shindig” means and (b) what it implies, and those who don’t can easily look it up.
Ah, I see you’ve actually removed some of the links you originally had in this post (am I the only person who’s been reading this blog all day!?).
Sorry, mucked up the first para. I meant to write,
“If Baduk’s interpretation of that Donna Summers number is close to what you had in mind, ….”
And I echo what Libertine (and earlier Marmot on another thread) said. This is a very tough crowd to please, indeed!
I made the link to the definition of “shindig” because I feared it would leave some some non-native speakers going, “Huh?”
I teach English for a living — trust me. grin.
I debated for a moment taking it out, but decided to keep it for that reason.
Stick to the core audience bro - Yahoo’s got you covered.
Will do.
As a general rule, I edit stuff after I post it if I find something wrong with it — until someone posts about something that might be wrong.
I don’t want to make them look babo.
Shelton, get over the Ryugyong Hotel already. Making references to staying at the Ryugyong every time someone goes to Pyongyang is quite tiresome…. against those fun-loving kids who run the DPRK.Hmm…The more things change, the more they stay the same.A link to “Dr. Strangelove” instead of disco. I suppose that’s a step up.
I told myself I would try again to withhold judgement for the next 168 hours, but when I see a key example of what I think is wrong with the present state of affairs, I feel compelled to say something.
Were Marmot to write about the same topic, I would expect a much more savvy analysis of what’s going to happen, what to expect, what to be concerned about, etc. Instead, this is just a disjointed set of links merely stating something will happen plus another stating that someone said the Bush administration won’t attack. The links seem thrown together not because they belong together but because the author thinks he’s rounding out a serious story.
This “additional perspective” wouldn’t bother me one iota if it weren’t for one flaw in the whole “guest blogger” plan: It is doubtful that Marmot will write about an issue that Shelton has already addressed.
And that means we will end up missing out on the informed punditry we come here for.
mr. bumgarner,
i’m gonna have to side with kushibo on some of his comments. i have held back a bit of criticism hoping that you’ll work on what seems to be a fairly adolescent perspective of the current affairs. i often look through this blog to find some interesting commentary from both the blogger and the commentators. in short, i find your comments irrelevant and the links and references often childish. for example,
Meanwhile, we were assured ?€” again ?€” that the United States has no intentions of doing anything ?€œstealthy?€? against those fun-loving kids who run the DPRK.
the stealth bombers have nothing to do with this event nor does the Ryugyong Hotel. as for “those fun-loving kids”, it seems as though you’re trying to hard to make something funny out of nothing.
granted this is a tough crowd. yet, please understand that there is a dirth of informed comment on these subjects, so many readers here have become a bit protective of the marmotesque commentary.
kudos to you for continuing to slug away at it and refining along the way.
I don’t think you two are a good match. In this case, the sum of the parts equals less than the whole.
I’ve been a fan of Marmot’s Hole and Ahssa! for a while, but you guys are no Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup.
What’s a shindig?
Sike…
(updated)
This ?€œadditional perspective?€? wouldn?€™t bother me one iota if it weren?€™t for one flaw in the whole ?€œguest blogger?€? plan: It is doubtful that Marmot will write about an issue that Shelton has already addressed.
Ok. How about this.
I will hold off on writing about anything that could possibly be construed as something people like you come to The Marmot’s Hole to read The Marmot’s take on it.
I will stick to side issues that I know about firsthand. Or know enough about that I believe I can make a interesting, worthwhile contribution that you will be willing to at least grit your teeth while you read.
And in the future I will cut out all Ahssa!-esque frills unless it is so painfully obvious that it needs to be done that I can’t help myself and am willing to endure the punishment that is obviously going to come.
kudos to you for continuing to slug away at it and refining along the way.
“Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the theatre?”
Grin.
I?€™ve been a fan of Marmot?€™s Hole and Ahssa! for a while, but you guys are no Reese?€™s Peanut Butter Cup.
Thanks. I think. Grin.
Again, one of the points of me being here is that I bring an additional “voice” to The Marmot’s Hole. I have asked The Marmot repeatedly if he wishes me to continue to write here and — to date — he has assured me that he does in fact what me to do so.
If I stop writing about things that the “senior” writer of The Marmot’s Hole would write about, then I think all of us will be happy or at least equally unhappy.
Please.
… but you guys are no Reese?€™s Peanut Butter Cup.It’s more like green tea ice cream. It’s green tea (mmm… yummy and wholesome…) and ice cream (mmm… rich and delicious…), making green tea ice cream (Holy crap, what the hell is this?!).
Yes, I know many of us have been duped into thinking that green tea now belongs in creamy things like yogurt, ice cream, lattes, cream cheese, etc., etc., so this analogy might not work on you, but you’re all a bunch of dupes. Think kimchi ice cream, then.
Oh.
Additionally — unless someone objects, I would like to make two features standard.
Sometime between Saturday and Sunday I will post a WIR.
About Wednesday I wish to post a “On Other Blogs…” that would cover some of the links found here —.
These are “value added” posts that would otherwise not be written if I weren’t a guest blogger.
Shelton wrote:Grin.And again:Grin.Okay. Now I’ve had it. This has gone too far. Marmot’s Hole has completely deteriorated. Geez, Shelton, we are not a bunch of kindergarteners… we know when you mean something tongue-in-cheek like that, so you don’t need to add “Grin” to every other sentence like we don’t know what your intention is. Geez, do you think we’re a bunch of idiots?! And do you think you should be writing a bunch of stuff on this ultra-serious blog where you have to go “Grin. Grin.” all the time?! Come on, get a clue already!!!
[This, by the way, would be an example of excessive and unfair criticism.]
In theory, Shelton (#15), I do not object. Come Wednesday, who knows?
While I understand what you’re saying, I have been involved in enough flame wars to know that sometimes it pays to go over board so that people understand there is a bit of a twinkle in your eye when you write something that could possibly be taken the wrong way.
But it bears repeating, Shelton, that my criticisms are not against you as a blogger per se but against just about anyone in blogdom who might start guest blogging here. In my analogy back in #14, you were represented by the ice cream, which is not a bad thing.
And just to prove I have no hard feelings, if you come to Seoul anytime after next week, I’ll treat you to a Starbuck’s at the quietest Starbuck’s in the Republic and we’ll have a wonderful chat.
Skipped most of the comments after the first 1/3rd. Since I have decided to self-censor my posting by cutting back on the amount of commenting I do at Marmot’s Hole, because I feel I’ve been posting too many and too many that were too long, this might seem like an odd statement — but — like Marmot and a few others have said, gee wilikers, is this a tough crowd or what…
My advice to Shelton is to post what he likes and feels - what interests him. Take my advice and everybody elses and skip over it. Don’t even read it once you see it’s mostly about you and not the topic of the post. Of course, this is Marmot’s Hole, so if he gives you some friendly advice on content, I’d listen, but beyond that, just post your interests.
US readers can take it, leave it, skim it, respond to it, ignore it, or whatever else. I generally don’t comment and don’t read the bulk of some types of posts Marmot has put up — like the female beefcake shots (though I did catch the one about the nude Mongolians — both the photos post and the update on Mongolian social politics), because I’m more interested in the geopolitical posts. But that’s my tastes. If readers don’t like a posters style or choice of topics, they can pass over it.
Like I did with the comments section on this post. I was interesed in the topic
I second Kushibo’s and Judge Judy’s sentiments. Let Mr. Kohler handle the serious politics issues.
On a separate topic, it seems as if (like the good Ambassador quoted above) there is a general agreement that a second Korean war would cause massive civilian casualties in Seoul. But aren’t these casualties prognostications usually slanted toward the “worst-case” scenarios? For instance, a military expert in the Atlantic wargames article says the civilian casualties could be less than 100,000. I’ve seen similar numbers elsewhere too, though I think such numbers go the other extreme. But if that is the case, is the risk of war worthwhile?
Here are a couple rather interesting pieces on Korean politics and the NK proliferation threat, both from the Washington Quarterly:
http://www.twq.com/05summer/do.....aibong.pdf
http://www.twq.com/05summer/docs/05summer_coe.pdf
For the most part, nothing anyone has written have I found unreasonable.
All the comments have pretty much just been an expression of what they expect from The Marmot’s Hole and where they see me as possibly fitting in.
I was deluding myself to think I could simply start writing about whatever I wanted to without easing myself in the Readership Hivemind Collective’s consciousness. I now have a better understanding of how a more established and successful blog works and the dynamic between it and its readership.
Seriously, danah boyd, come back from Southeast Asia, the Marmot’s Hole turns its lonely eyes to you…woooo.wooo.wooo.
Maybe all of this will help me write for one of the Gawker Media sites one day.
I’m content with writing about one non-”Marmot Should Write This Not You, Shelton” post a day, including a WIR and a OOB.
Thanks for the link, Nequila. Prof. Hahm is absolutely first class as a scholar.
Nequila, thanks for the link. Something to read on the subway after I print this out. It turns out one of the authors is the brother of one of my profs.
If the sheer number of posts is used as a measuring stick of Shelton?€™s ability, it has improved. Compared to most of the recent posts he has made which are at the time I write this in the neighborhood of 6 responses per post, the current 25 is unprecedented.
I am happy to see that some people responding to this post are actually addressing the issue. Won Joong Choe seemed to question how realistic the casualty loss estimations are to NK artillery. I too seem to remember reading somewhere that that figure may be a worst case scenario. There is talk of taking the artillery out as part of a preemptive strike but to me this seems optimistic. My understanding is that the NK artillery is deployed in caves and tunnels and would therefore be very difficult to forcefully remove from service. I have a hard time imagining bunker buster bombs for each artillery piece. Can anyone with a more solid understanding of the situation enlighten us on this aspect?
James wrote:I am happy to see that some people responding to this post are actually addressing the issue.Actually, I sort of did, but it got lost in the shuffle: When I wrote the following…Were Marmot to write about the same topic, I would expect a much more savvy analysis of what?€™s going to happen, what to expect, what to be concerned about, etc…. I was hoping informed people would write some some savvy analysis of what’s going to happen, what to expect, what to be concerned about, etc.
Kushibo,
Are Hahm Chaibong and Hahm Chaihark brothers?
If so, is Hahm Chaihark your prof.?
Honestly, the only criticism I have is (was?) Shelton being a bit link-happy. I don’t have the patience to open 5 or 6 links in a single blog entry.
Other than that, it’s good to have a guest blogger on here for the sake of have more entries to read.
Won Joon Choe,
Normally, I’d agree with you, but in the case of a Korean War II, I think the worst case is probably more in the ballpark.
I do have some limited questions about the worst case thinking if the US tried a limited strike. I’m against it, because it is too dangerous to predict how North Korea would react, but if North Korea’s primary, overiding intent is to stay alive, which I believe is true, they would not want an all out war. They might try to limit their response to a US limited strike.
Anyway, in the full war situation, if North Korea decided to launch it, they would do so by suprise and probably use WMD (maybe not nuclear, but at least limited chemical and biological) as probably the only way they could hope for victory before the US and SK crushed them.
So, if WMD use is part of the strategic plan, the worst case numbers are probably not too bad a guess.
WJC (#26), I guess I wasn’t cryptic enough. Yes and yes.
“Hahm Chaihark is now the head of the Korean Studies department at Yonsei.”
The Korean Studies department at Yonsei that speaks English, right? And not regular Korean studies at Yonsei?
Oranckay, what happend to your Blog? A lot of regulars are curious…
Is there another Korean Studies program besides the one at GSIS? I know there’s an undergraduate Korean Language Literature program at Yonsei, but that’s too limited a focus to be called a Korean Studies department, since the sociological side and political side of things are covered in other departments. But is that what you were referring to?
Or did you mean the Institute of Korean Studies? Perhaps I should have said Korean Studies Program, of which there is only one, at the GSIS, headed by Dr. Hahm.
And Sheldon, while we’re at it, get rid of that gravatar. That smiling mug of yours in the photo leads us to believe that you are not taking these serious topics seriously. And what’s with the chopsticks? You have your photo taken while eating? I suppose you eat while you writing as well. How can we take your writing seriously if you’re pounding your mouth full of ??¼?²¹??´ while pounding away at the keyboard? Seriously. I’m serious.
If you’re serious about being as serious as us than you seriously need to do some serious introspection. Then maybe you can take yourself as seriously as we take ourselves.
Sinseriously…
I agree (#37). Your nom de plume (which I half-suspect is not your legal name, given the multiple spellings of it that you use) sounds like the nerdy character in a Neil Simon play and that picture makes me imagine you talk like the Nutty Professor. I also suppose that picture was taken during chopstick-using lessons with someone who eventually became your girlfriend.
But who am I to talk? Look at me slobbering all over what was once a clean shirt.
Marmot, can we show more skin on this ultra-serious blog? (Grin x 10 to Kushibo and the rest of the ultra serious)
I know a great deal of this blog deals with very weighty topics, but I wouldn’t refer to this blog as ultra serious. Seems a bit too strong for me. It’s nice to have a little fun once in a while. After all, Eternity is just long enough for a joke. Maybe we’re all a bit too serious. So give Shelton a break. Your constant goading of him seems like initiation week at a frat house. If you don’t like his topics, don’t read them. You have the power to choose…..Neo.
The comments section sometimes reminds me a bit of this (the politics bit). Especially before the required logins.
Sickboy, I don’t mind the occasional Mongolian nude-type pieces. Really. In Marmot-esque fashion, it was something fresh and original, and it triggered a long… um… list of responses.
But as I mentioned, it’s not a mere matter of not reading his posts, at least as far as they might be preventing Marmot from writing on the same subject. But Shelton said he’d try to steer clear of that, which is a good sign.
When I load up Marmot or say Slashdot, I’ll scan through the article and scroll-wheel-click on the link I think might be wothwhile. The links open in a new tab in Firefox without refocusing on the new tab. This way all the links are loaded and ready to go by the time you get to the end of the page. Really helps when looking at porn thumbs news aggregators.
Oops! Shelton. Not Sheldon.
Seriously embarassing.
There’s porn thumbs on the internet?!!
…..Then what are we talking about this crap for???
I think we’ve seen the last of usinkorea…
I agree with the sentiments Kushibo and Judge Judy expressed earlier in this thread.
I prefer the original “Marmot Brand” posts
Also, thanks to Nequila for those links, good stuff.
My full legal name is “Lee Shelton Bumgarner.”
Most people IRL know me as “Lee.”
I write under “Shelton Bumgarner” because I like how it looks in print a lot more than any of the alternatives, and I think of it as my “writing identity.”
I sometimes simply do the following to avoid any confusion: Shelton “Lee” Bumgarner.
As for Ahssa!, it is a “blovel” (or “nog” or “blogel”) mixed with journalism. I spell my last name differently there (unless I use the title “From the Author”) to indicate to the reader that anything written by “Shelton Baumgartner” is coming from a character I have created, not me.
It sounds rather confusing, I know, but the actual implimentation of it is pretty cool, if I do say so myself.
I decided to go the fiction route simply because, as I wrote elsewhere on the matter:
This blog will have two levels to it — 1) that of an alternative
weeklyesque type blog that will actually provide “real” information to expats, and 2) that of an interactive, real-time roman ?? clef about my life here in Korea. Imagine if you were to watch that now-canceled show in the States, Sports Night, and the actors were expected to present real news during the course of each show.
Since the dawn of man, writers have wanted to talk frankly about the stuff in their lives, but for any number of reasons they couldn’t — so they hid behind “fiction” that was based in stuff that actually happened. This way, everyone is happy — the writer gets to vent frustration with themselves and the rest of the world, while the “rest of the world” is either unsure that what’s being written is about them or clueless altogether. Meanwhile, the average reader gets a good tale and a few, select, readers understand everything and get a hoot out of how clever the writer is for hiding things so deeply and yet at the same time getting their point across! How cool is that!
My concept of the blog fixes the key problem with the existing blogging model — most bloggers (myself included until recently) act like not only are they on the Jerry Springer show but they have some sort of magical “everything proof shield” that protects them from alienating friends, lovers, enemies and everyone else when they post What They Really Think in such a public forum as the World Wide Web. Traditional journalists have hundreds of years of tradition to fall back upon to protect themselves from such stupidity from getting published in their publication, while traditional authors have the roman ?? clef.
What’s poor Shelton to do? Lay off the heavy news, many of the Marmot’s “stakeholders” are saying. Okay, so what does that leave him with? The light stuff that some readers would dismiss as the frivolous observations of a newbie expat.
Shelton, you write in your profile on Ahssa! that you have a lifelong interest in Korea that predates your coming here. What, specifically, interests you about it? Maybe post on that. Put up some articles on Korean culture, perhaps.
You were a journalist in your previous life on the other side of the Pacific, and you’re living in a part of the world where historical memory run deep (millennia deep). Since the Marmot focuses mainly on current affairs, perhaps start digging at some of the historical underpinnings of issues that are in the news? Who are the parties and what are the factors involved in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (or whatever it’s going to be called), for example? How has popular Korean opinion on various contentious subjects changed over time? How has Korea’s relationship to China developed, in historical terms (from 19th-century vassal state all the way to multi-billion-dollar trading partner)? Do affluent young Koreas care about the sacrifices that their less well-off grandparents made in the decades when South Korea was a much poorer and more downtrodden place than it is now?
Many readers (including myself) will be somewhat familiar with these issues, but nevertheless, these are some possible ideas for “value-added” content that you could contribute.
I was taken aback by the strong reaction to your contributions herein hindsight, I’m glad I didn’t volunteer for the job! They may or may not have a point, but few of your critics seem to be offering much in the way of construction suggestions for what you could do, instead of just saying what you shouldn’t do.
Anyhow, good luck with pleasing this discerning crowd!
Whoops! “Historical memory” ?†’ “Historical memories”; “construction suggestions” ?†’ “constructive suggestions.”
“Young Koreas” ?†’ “Young Koreans.”
What can I say? I’m burning the midnight oil….
On second thought, it wouldn’t have to be anything as the challenging topics I tossed up, each of which is the material of doctoral dissertation or two! You could, for example, take the latest post by Marmot and offer a hisorical backgrounder to the story (not to say that you should simply react to his cues, however).
And the Week in Review isn’t a bad idea, either.
Clearly, lack of sleep is the enemy of good grammar!
I agree with curious and think he has offered some very good ideas. Some of those topics would be great to discuss. Yes they are topics that many of us are familiar with but they directly impact Korea today and I think there is still plenty to discuss. The whole debate about how the US will deal with NK and the state of the relationship betwen SK and the US needs an ocasional break.
Both Robert Neff and Hamel (not the Dutch sailor who was shipwrecked in Korea in the 17th century) both post(ed) here occasionally in distinctly non-Marmot fashion and never received the kind of slagging Mr. Bumgarner is getting. Really, some of the commentators here are excruciatingly anal. Leave the guy alone.
I could write about the 4-7 debate, but I’m afraid of the injuries as people’s heads slam into the keyboard out of sheer boredom…
4-7 debate? Enlighten me, please!
http://faculty.washington.edu/mkalton/
Read at your own risk……
And this made me think of an interesting little experience I had when I first got to Korea. One day, I was asking my adult students (age 20 to 50) who the people were on the Korean 1,000 and 5,000 bill (I believe it’s those two), and I was suprised when my students didn’t know.
I guess if I tried the same thing in the US with the dollar bills, I’d get the same thing, however.
They are Korea’s two most famous Neo-Confucian philosophers and the 4-7 debate was two series of letters exchanged by two sets of two scholar/philosophers with two of them being the two most famous philosophers, who didn’t write to each other, but to two other scholar/philosophers, and I’m making this painful to read, because that is how the two series of letters, exchanged by the two sets of scholar/philosophers, where one group was not the two famous scholar philosophers, reads.
the link isn’t to Kalton’s work on the 4-7 debate, but it will give you an idea of what kind read that book is.
Thanks. After a bit of digging, I also found a Google search for “four beginnings” “seven feelings” to be helpful.
They really didn’t know that it was T’oegye and Yulgok on those bills!? Wow! My wife didn’t even major in Korean history or anything like that, but she knows.
Here is a thesis on the debates.
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~austin.....thesis.pdf
Thank you. My eyes usually glaze over at Neoconfucian arcana (note to Shelton: this is not a recommended post topic!), but the essay looks interesting. I’ll give it a go.
No, bring on the Confucianism USinKorea–I want to know about those characters but I don’t have time to study….
Well, an interesting challenge for Shelton would be to say, post an article on Yi T’oegye and Yi Yulgok (they’re important enough that streets are named after them in Seoul!), but in a light, easy-to-read, but informative style. I think his personal writing style would lend itself to treating heavy-duty material in an approachable manner.
I’ll have to admit that I haven’t been a fan of Shelton’s posts on the Marmot. And I agree with many of the statements made, ie., too many links.
Part of the problem is that the Marmot is a bright, interesting blogger that has built a solid reputation by posting thought provoking analysis of Korea for a long time. To expect someone else to step in a do it as well is not fair.
So I think it would be cool if Shelton came in and gave a different perspective, but his style seems off on the site, and his sheer volume of posts is somewhat off-putting. I mean it almost seems like he is trying to take over the “hole,” which differs from when the other guest bloggers posted in the past.
At that time, Marmot still lead the site, and you’d see an occasional guest blogger post. While Shelton seems to have viewed this as his opportunity to reach a large audience and is not taking any prisoners.
My two cents.
I disagree (obviously.)
The furthest thing from my mind is “taking over.”
As I have stated, I am limiting myself to about one post a day. If necessary, I will reduce it even more until the “natural order of things” is back to where it should be here at The Marmot’s Hole.
Of all the things that have been said about me here to date, your post is the only one that actually kind of makes me sad.
I am looking forward to The Marmot posting at his normal pace.
Shelton,
I’m sorry to have made you sad. That wasn’t my point, as I actually felt bad for the amount of flak you were receiving.
It just seemed to me that you came in here guns a blazing, instead of slowly making your presence felt in a less obtrusive manner.
I also noticed the nearly 50-50 ratio, but reserved comment.
As for previous guest bloggers, I don’t ever recall reading a Robert Neff post (but might have simply not noticed the name), though I do remember a number of his comments.
Hamel I know from another list, and I would have to say that he is of Marmot caliber.
I shall also note that, as of a day or so ago, Shelton’s contributions (22 to date) has surpassed the number of contributions made by Robert Neff (21). In terms of word count, it may be more.
Kushibo:
Under “Contributors” in the right-hand sidebar, if you click on the number of posts beside each author’s name, it links you to articles written by that author.
…Turns out Robert Neff’s most recent contributions are just from this spring of 2005. (http://blog.marmot.cc/?author=11)
…And Hamel’s two contributions this year have been on Andrei Lankov’s latest book and Samiljl.
Curious,
Aftering taking a brief look at your blog, you might actually eat up the 4-7 debate while most run from it (with good reason).
Kalton has translated the letters that sparked the centuries long debate into English. The debate involved these guys often repeating whole sections of the previous letters with strike throughs and slightly new wording as they split hairs on the meaning of individuals words and phrases in the enourmous foundation of Neo-Confucian orthodoxy.
Four-Seven Debate, The An Annotated Translation of the Most Famous Controversy in Korean Neo-Confucian Thought
And you get the taste of it from the online text of another work by Kalton I linked above.
Heh heh, yeah, I do go in for hairsplitting sometimes! I could never quite get around to trying to understand the various Newconfucian doctrines, or Yangban factions, or all the other fun stuff that got the upper class’s knickers in knots back during the Chosn Dynasty, though. Thanks to the links you provided, maybe I’ll try tackling it now. If nothing else, it should make for some good bedtime reading when I’m suffering from insomnia!
Sorry, “Neoconfucian,” not “Newconfucian.”
I should really read what I post before I post it….
Tomato, potato.
“Newconfucianism! Now new and improved for the 21st century with the super extra-special ingredient quadraseptinol!”
Announcer: “Look how other brands of Confucianism do such a lousy job cleaning humans’ dirty moral characters. But Newconfucianism goes right to work, cleaning inside and out, with 158% greater cleaning power than the leading brand, as demonstrated in lab tests.”
Pleased housekeeper: “I’ve tried all the other brands of Confucianism, and nothing really worked. Then I tried Newconfucianism. Now I fulfill all the ancestral rites perfectly! It’s great!”
Newconfucianism wouldn’t require advertising. Your elders/superiors/s??nbae/husband would tell you to buy it and you’d buy it out of deference and filial piety.
That simple.
Announcer: Normally, a product this good would sell for hundreds of dollars! But we are offering it to you today not for $200, not for $100, not even for $50! Newconfucianism can be yours today for the very special price of $49.99! And if you call in the next 30 minutes, we’ll make you this very special offer. We will throw inat no additional costthis lavishly bound collector’s edition of The Analects. And that’s not all. We’ll even include T’oegye’s classic, The Ten Diagrams of Sage Learning. That’s right: you can have all thisNewconfucianism with the super extra-special ingredient quadraseptinol and this lavishly bound collector’s edition of The Analects and The Ten Diagrams of Sage Learningall for the incredibly low, once-in-a-lifetime price of $49.99! Call now: our customer service representatives are standing by to take your order.
Kushibo:
You are quite correct. But when some fitness trainer in California discovers it and finds some way of selling it, this is what the result would be….
Ideally the elders/superiors/s??nbae/husband wouldn’t have to tell you to buy it, you would figure that out on your own and bring it home to please them before they could utter a word of displeasure with the old stuff.
By the way, I’ve been awake too long and I’ve seen too many infomercials recently. That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it.
But how would you know when the elders/superiors/s??nbae/husband switched from proto-confucianism to neo-and-unproved-confucianism?
So confusing.
Just stick to the way, my son. Stick to the way and you can do no wrong.
It just seemed to me that you came in here guns a blazing, instead of slowly making your presence felt in a less obtrusive manner.
I agree.
I didn’t do my research, didn’t “case the join out” for a few days (weeks?) before I began to post outright.
I probably should have posted in these comment areas for a little while, building trust among readers until I gradually got to the point where it would be ok if I were to post on the main page.
In hindsight, that’s what I should have done.
And in the future, if I am given a similar opportunity that is what I will probably do.
But my personality is such — and I had a lot of built up preasure vis-a-vis writing for “mass media” audience such as The Marmot’s Hole — that I didn’t really think the whole situation out too carefully and made a lot of mistakes that I could have prevented.
I had journalistic blueballs, if you will.
And for that, I’m sorry.
As I have already mentioned, I will be responsible and post a minium amount so as not to aggrivate the situation anymore.
One must master the ability to read noonchi.
Daily linklets 15th June
China and the Vatican are rapidly moving towards mutual recognition, and Hong Kong’s Bishop Zen says Taiwan’s Catholics have nothing to worry about. It will be interesting to see exactly what kind of compromises are made by both sides. The double li…
I probably should have posted in these comment areas for a little while, building trust among readers until I gradually got to the point where it would be ok if I were to post on the main page.I don’t recall you having been much of a participant here. Not while I’ve been here, anyway.
James wrote:
One must master the ability to read noonchi.
Yes, it was bad kibun all round.
“Less kimchi, more nunchi!”