At my last newspaper gig before I came to Korea, I got in serious, serious trouble because at the beginning of a meeting I was covering I didn’t pivot a few degrees to my left, put my hand over my heart and recite the American pledge of allegiance.
This was in the hinterlands of the Old Dominion (Virginia) where all the women are strong, all the men handsome and all the children above average.
“We’re back in God’s Country,” my mother would often say with pride whenever we crossed over from North Carolina back into Virginia after Christmas shopping or visiting my father’s Tar Heel relatives.
So my editor called me into his office, closed the door (never a good sign) and asked me if I refused to say the pledge of allegiance.
After a moment of intense thought and reflection, I realized what he was talking about — what the town council members had seen was me simply stand up when we said the pledge of allegiance.
I was facing the flag, just not directly.
The reason I simply stood out of respect instead of doing the whole ritual is that I know my private thoughts on the matter and saying the pledge or not saying the pledge is not going to change things.
When I came to Korea, the single biggest culture shock was not the language difference, but the mentality of the majority of my fellow expats. It didn’t take me too long to realize that while publicly expats will give you the whole shuck-n-jive about how “some of their best friends are Americans,” in reality a lot of non-American expats in Korea aren’t all that fond of us.
It took me months to get over the fact that something I assumed would be considered a positive by everyone around the world — my coming from the United States — would engender the exact opposite reaction.
I now realize that for expats, nationality in Korea is what race is for Americans — we know race exists, but it’s like some sort of conversational “third-rail” that one touches at one’s own risk. It’s as if admitting being an American is like talking about sex, politics or religion when eating dinner with new friends — it’s something just best left unmentioned.
My first serious brush with anti-Americanism among expats was while I lived in Ansan, just south of Seoul. I went to a bar and was shooting pool with a group of people I had just met. We ordered two 5,000ccs pitcher of beer and started shooting pool. Just as I grabbed for my frosty mug, a Kiwi girl said, “Don’t drink out of that one, I just spit in it.”
Huh?
Later, the same delightful young lady said, within earshot, “Well, you know, all Americans are stupid.”
When we locked eyes, she added, “…Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you were here.”
I suddenly realized how much resentment there was towards Americans in the expat community.
And, in my personal experience, the expat nationality with the most animosity towards Americans is the, well, Canadians. Why this bothers me so is the fact that my oldest friend in the world was born in Canada and I still consider his family something of my “second family.” For most Americans, the notion that any group of Canadians would view us collectively as the spawn of Satan is like the residents of Delaware suddenly hating the residents of Maryland.
The average American has only warm, fuzzy feelings for all things Canadian.
Where else could we poach all our TV, movie and music entertainers from?
The crux of why some Canadian wayguks dislike Migukins (Americans) can be summed up by the following exchange:
Canadian Expat: So, what do Americans think of Canada?
American Expat: We don’t.
While Canadians learn all about Americans, Americans really don’t care all that much about Canada.
My experiences in Korea as an American expat have made me realize how proud I am of being an American. I am so proud of being an American that I have yet to ever deny being an American even though I know the instant I admit to it, I may be asking for trouble. I try to defuse the issue by simply saying, when asked where I’m from, “I’m from the deep south of Canada, so far south I’m in the United States.”
To me, denying being an American reeks way too much of Jesus telling Peter that he would deny him “three times before the cock crows.” Despite my strong disagreement with much of what the current administration is doing, I’m still an American and damn proud of it. To deny I’m an American would be like denying I’m a man, white, have two eyes and can speak English.
One reason I am weary of Canadian expats as whole (though not as individuals) is the fact that they can put the damn Canadian maple leaf on every visible surface of their body, but if I were to do the same thing with Old Glory, they would probably grimace and mutter something that would include the words “imperialism,” “First Nations,” and “Iraq.”
My angst about being an American expat got so bad that I started thinking about ways that I could fake the Canadians out. In the battle of the backpacks, I realize there was one thing the average Canuck would never be able to figure out — putting a Stars & Bars on my backpack. If I were to put the civilian flag of the Confederate States of America on my backpack (via a store in Itaewon, maybe?) then maybe I could show my pride in being both from The South and the United States without either offending African American expats or Canadians.
So, I am damn proud of my homeland and it’s rich culture and history. But at the same time, I am the first to admit that it’s flawed and sometimes misguided.
I love it, though.
I really do.
30 Comments
not being familiar with the u.s.-Canada relationship until i read the posts here, it amazes me how similar it is as japan-korea relationship on last several decades. i can just replace the u.s. to japan and canada to sok in many of the posts here, and these still make sense to me.
and there are many Bruce Cumings’ in japan too.
Whooo…..
I wouldn’t go that far……
Having taught Korean kids, I’d be shocked if I found teaching elementary school kids in Canada that a good many of them would say things like “I hate the Japanese!” with the “Japanese” being replaced by “Americans.”
The stuff with Canada and the US is like cousins fighting — in familiy stuff on the surface.
With Japan and Korea — the hate is visceral.
Well, to further stir the pot, take a quick trip over to Japantoday.com site, and read some of the heated discussions going on over there. Some of the subjects include Japanese blaming foreigners, racism, discrimination against foreigners, foreigners having problems with locals, on and on and on. I tell you, it almost sounds like a Korean discussion board.
I am well aware that this post is different than most things posted to The Marmot’s Hole. Yet the matter is sufficently personal (and interesting) that the approach I took was the only one I could think of that would do it justice.
And I will be the first to admit that it could be that it’s my individual personality that people dislike and not my nationality.
But the issue of anti-Americanism among members of the Korean expat community still bothers me.
Americans are cool, damn it. grin.
Since we have the most open (and self-critical) society in the world, the rest of the world watches, listens, and then feels emboldened to jump right in and “pile on”. It seldoms seems to occur to them to instead apply such self-criticism to their own societies.
The next time your Kiwi “friend” spits in your beer and then makes derogatory remarks about Americans, ask her if she’s willing to do the same thing to a hypothetical North Korean in the bar (of course, if you’re fortunate enough to have a real one around, you can ask her for a live demonstration).
I never got the amount of hatred expressed between Canadian and US expats at Dave’s ESL cafe.
My experience working with mostly Canadians and Americans in Korea was the same as my general feeling about anti-Americanism in places like Canada before I came. It is kind of like anti-France sentiment in the US. Or like watching WWF. (the world wrestling federation). Or, it’s like talking to a Yankees fan about the Braves. Even if the conversation gets “heated” it’s just a sports conversation. It has a pretty much harmless context.
I worked with a Canadian in his 50s who was a child of the 60s, and he liked, especially after a few drinks, to push buttons especially on “America” and it got frustrating a few times, but on the broad scale of things, it meant little to my life.
I had a similar experience studying in France.
After 9/11, my feeling about anti-US attitudes in Europe and among “allies” changed but then reverted back almost to the point before. In the broad scheme of things, having nations that have some power and sway in the world — continually enjoying a process of making the United States of America a “bigger problem” or “worse than” Cuba, Iraq, Iran, and so on —- having world figures like Hans Blix saying he “fears global warming more than nuclear weapons in Iraq” does come back to hurt the US when it believes it needs to do things.
For example, having South Korean society having enjoyed seeing the worst in the US for many years, when it comes time to deal with something like the nuclear crisis, the US has a virtually unmovable object in South Korea. How can we limit the threat North Korea poses to the US mainland and Japan and the region - when we can’t even get our “blood ally” in South Korea to stop picturing the United States as a bigger threat than Pyongyang?
But, then again, on the personal level, the anti-AMericanism in Korean society touched my life only on a few rare occasions.
It wasn’t hard to just get along or even make friends in the geopolitical environment…
I forgot to add what Paul did — that most of what I heard in Korea or France was the same stuff I ran across routinely in universities in the US…
…the difference being, usually in the US, the process was one of looking at the worst to try to make us better….
….while abroad……………
I have never bought into the ideal that Canadians are anti-American. Canadians are cynical, especially about politics. Not just US politics, but also Canadian politics. We make jokes about the president of the US, but then again we also make jokes about our prime minister. You can see the true anti-Americanism in Korea, now that’s anti-Americanism: the flag burning, voice of people web sites, Hanchongryon, etc etc.. all which you’ll never see in Canada. I think Americans are sensitive, perhaps because they’ve seen too many of their flag being burned all over the world. So maybe they become touchy when somebody off handedly makes a joke about Americans. Even in all the countries that have anti-Americanism, their beef is mostly to do with American foriegn policy/politics - not the people or their culture. This is certainly true of Korea. But I think the same things can’t be said of some of the Arab countries. The fact is, America is a superpower that influences so many countries in both postitive and negative ways. When you have so many toes, fingers in so many pots, there’s bound to be negative reactions even if you think you’re doing the right things.
In my experience, once the “foreigners” (i.e. non-Americans) find out I’m not a Bush supporter, everything is cool.
What usually happens is that they make some subtle jab at Bush in my presence and wait for my response. DO I flip out and start making jokes about French people and Michael Moore? Or do I chuckle and do them one better?
Brian
I”m Canadian and I don’t care where anyone is from. If they are a sane somewhat normal human being than I can be your friend. If you are a bush support, than perhaps we shouldn’t talk politics, but other than that we’re just people living in a foriegn land.
And, in my personal experience, the expat nationality with the most animosity towards Americans is the, well, Canadians. Why this bothers me so is the fact that my oldest friend in the world was born in Canada and I still consider his family something of my ?€œsecond family.?€? For most Americans, the notion that any group of Canadians would view us collectively as the spawn of Satan is like the residents of Delaware suddenly hating the residents of Maryland.What? It’s not just Korea? (Well, I knew it was Italy and Britain from my trip to Italy last fall where I met all the Brits). The solution is simple: if these democratic societies are going to let their citizens whine about our country, let’s just leave them. Thankless ingrates! If it weren’t for the US, Canadians would still be traveling around by dogsled and they would have been invaded by the Russians decades ago! We’ll show them, let’s pull out of everywhere. We don’t need global anything. We’ll be the most successful isolationists ever! USA! USA! USA!The average American has only warm, fuzzy feelings for all things Canadian.Only when a hot Canadienne walks by.
Many Americans, if they think about Canada at all, look down on Canada. In the worldview of many Americans (but definitely not all), we are superior to everyone else, including Canada. Our politicians and electronic pundits spend lots and lots of time deriding and mocking the Canadian way of life or way of thinking (especially in regard to health care and social issues). I heard recently on some program that liberal Canadian values are going to destroy American values.
Yeah, if I were Canadian, I’d just love that.
But still, too many Canadians do have a stick up their butt about the US. As for Dave’s ESL Cafe, it is the nature of on-line interaction that does that. Don’t believe the hype.
“Even in all the countries that have anti-Americanism, their beef is mostly to do with American foriegn policy/politics - not the people or their culture.”
Disagree a little. On the personal level, people can get along. But, then there is the training —
cultural materialism, cultural imperialism, Hollywood, blue jeans, industrialism, global warming, arrogance, coke a cola, hot dogs, baseball and apple pie, and so on…
as I think two of us have pointed out, it might be hard to blame anti-Americanism on individuals from other nations when our own higher education lays out such a persistent foundation — for why the United States of America is wrong for the world, and it goes beyond what the government does. It expands to the society as a whole all the time.
Why would some people feel ashamed about saying the pledge in a group?
Eventually, I came to a point where I thought, “OK. If everyone keeps trying to make the shoe fit, perhaps it does. And if it does, we should do something about it.”
But, when I went to set about that task, a nasty habit of looking beyond the US at the rest of the world kept popping up….
and then I became bitter about higher education….
I don’t know where you went to college, usinkorea, but in classes where I went they were willing to talk as freely about the problems in other countries as about the US. But I know a lot of people have had something like the experience you mention (and some people in our school got a little goofy about Whites and racism, so some of that Ivory Tower loopiness invaded our campus, too).
American culture does have a self-critical streak (which counters and contradicts the “love it or leave it” streak). The result is that all America’s warts are out there in the open for anyone to see. Since US-based media (CNN, UPI, AP, NYT, WaPo, etc.) tend to be dominant world media, everyone outside the US sees America’s warts as well.
Not so with, say, Korea. In the Korean media, Koreans constantly talk about a whole bunch of Korean problems, including whether or not Roh is irresponsible for the things he utters, whether or not it is wise to try to make South Korea a “balancer,” and whether North Korean refugee problems should be downplayed in favor of better relations with North Korea and China. But since almost all of this is in Korean, it doesn’t get very far beyond the peninsula.
Self-criticism of one’s nation is not a uniquely American trait, but the unique position of America means that Americans’ own criticisms of their country (which are often right) are magnified for all the world to see. And then the great and the good of America are forgotten or obscured.
God forbid if the radical leftists really do succeed in pushing USFK off the peninsula, it will be as much to do with people like Bruce Cumings, a self-loathing American who tried so hard to paint the US presence in Korea as near-evil while depicting the North Koreans as misunderstood patriots, and whose books became a bible for the student movements as they formed their anti-American sentiment. It’s an American telling us the truth about America, so that’s all the credibility checking that’s needed.
And not just people like Bruce Cumings, but also the American who was helping the “Eradicate US Crimes” group with their English-language resources, who I once called up (2000?) about getting data about violent crimes committed against Korean nationals by USFK personnel. After asking about murder rates, I asked if he had similar data on USFK personnel killed by Korean nationals. His incredulous response: “Does that even happen?”
Of course it does, but he didn’t care. He was part of the matrix of Americans who respond to excessive American patriotism by trying to depict America to others in the worst possible light, even if that requires ignoring at least half of what America is and does.
Yeah, I do believe that if the US were to leave Korea, it would be a disaster for Korea, for the US, and for its other allies here. But if that ever happens, we’ll have Americans like Bruce and this other guy to thank for it.
Before the Asian financial crisis, there were a lot of Americans here teaching English. The crash of the won saw the value of their wages drop by 50% at its worst point. It was about this time that many left and were invariably replaced by Canadians. There was always friendly banter that went back and forth but nothing that was mean spirited.
I find myself disagreeing at least in part with some of the things that have been said here. In my position at work, I regularly meet with people from literally all over the world, both in their countries as well as here in Korea. I have come to the conclusion that there are plenty of people out in the world that are both critical of what their own politicians do and recognize that despite personal convictions about the role the US plays in the world, many freely recognize that some things the US has done have been beneficial. I find people particularly from Australia and Europe to fit this category. Certainly there are people out there that are just anti-American but I think they are the exception, not the rule. The current administration in the US is not one that is overly popular overseas and has engendered strong feelings at home, either for or against it.
Last of all, there seems to be a lot of disapproval for the higher education system in the US that to me seems misguided. The whole purpose behind getting a higher education is to hopefully gain the critical thinking skills necessary to be able to productively function in society-not just so you can get a better job. Yes, there are professors that are well over the top on their views and some can be unrelenting in their critique of the state of the world/nation. With one or two exceptions, it has been my experience that they are that way because they want the students to think and argue for themselves, not just accept what they are told via the media and are happy to give in when they feel a point has be adequately made.
You should really post this stuff over at the Korea Herald forum. It is tiresome to read this kind of posting over and over . . .
R. Elgin: To whose views are yous referring to?
America and the Americans today, China and the Chinese tomorrow. Criticism follows power and influence. It’s just part of the package, like it or not. But I understand where you’re coming from, it gets to me too, sometimes.
Shelton, well written post. The same problem exist(ed) in Japan. Any group of white folks I was with saw the Canadians instantly jumping on the Whine Complain Bandwagon.
One disconcerting part of the Canadian whining (insecurity?) was their bigoted assumption that I MUST be a 1,000% supporter of The Bad Causes. Anti-meat, anti-oil, anti-Iraq - it didn’t matter what their peeve was - because the vocal members of the Love Tolerance crowd were only about the Anger Intolerance (a fact everywhere, not just limited to Canadians abroad).
To be blunt, at least the folks from Australia and the UK had the courtesy to preface their comments with, “I’m not sure where you stand on this issue, but I sure hate (insert topic-or-person here).”
“Many Americans, if they think about Canada at all, look down on Canada.”
Sort of. When you live in the center of the Empire, the outlying regions really aren’t of importance. And it’s not just Canada that Americans don’t care about, it’s everyone else. “We don’t”, indeed.
“In the worldview of many Americans (but definitely not all), we are superior to everyone else,”
Well…we are. Or our country is. Besides a dearth of hot asian babes, and moaning of old-timers about “the way it used to be”, what’s not to like? I’m not being snarky - seriously - what’s not to like about the quality of life in the USA?
“I heard recently on some program that liberal Canadian values are going to destroy American values.”
I don’t know about that. I think liberal values in the USA may be shared by some Canadians…but it’s not like tundra winds from the north are destroying things in the USA. Having said that, Canada has some budget, military and immigration problems of it’s own that almost put it on par with the USA.
Paul H., I am not sure if the US is the ‘most open, most self critical society in the world’, but it is one of the most.
A famous Canadian general (we do have ‘em, really!) and political wannabe described his feelings for the US (paraphasing): If Canada can’t be the world’s top super-power, the US is the best possible second choice. (Lewis Mackensie -can’t be bothered to look up the spelling) I have to agree. If my country can’t be The superpower, the US is my choice.
Scott-in-Japan wrote:I heard recently on some program that liberal Canadian values are going to destroy American values.
I don?€™t know about that. I think liberal values in the USA may be shared by some Canadians?€?but it?€™s not like tundra winds from the north are destroying things in the USA. Having said that, Canada has some budget, military and immigration problems of it?€™s own that almost put it on par with the USA.
I’m not saying I agree with this idea, but it is an idea that is making its way through the right-wing side of media. They blame the same-sex marriage trend on those liberal Canadians. “That’s really what [the Canadians] were trying to do: get America to let gays marry each other.” They blame America’s security issues on the liberal Canadians letting anyone into their country and then not watching the border properly. It’s on Rush!
I’d have to agree especially with Paul H, Kimbob, and EFL Geek. Frankly, I think that anti-Americanism often disguises itself as anti-Bushism, and there would be a lot less anti-Bushism in the world if the Press in the US would never have so obsessively portrayed him as an evil ignoramus.
It’s always kind of wierd to be foreign policy hawk–as I’m Canadian. As for Canadians, there’s no question that they’re a self-righteous bunch. We (not I, but my countrymen), constantly complain about American ignorance of us, about how loud and rude Americans are, etc. And if the Americans are for something, chances are, we’ll be against it, and vice versa. It’s incredibly immature on our part. Of course, it’s convenient to forget that we eat American style and consume American pop culture like anyone else (now THAT’S a personal beef, but never mind).
In my opinion, most Americans don’t understand the reason for this Canadian angst (although Shelton does). They usually put it down to jealousy, but Canadians really aren’t jealous of Americans. It does seem true that Americans are louder overseas, and less polite, on average. That’s a personal observation based only on anecdotal evidence, of course. But that’s not such a big deal.
There are a few, and only a few, substantial reasons for Canadians to be angry with the American government, like the illegal softwood tarrifs the US has been imposing, in defiance of multiple WTO rulings, on BC softwood exports for some years. Because of these tarrifs, whole towns in BC have shut down, and thousands of people have been laid off. The US lumber lobby contends that the government of Canada is subsidizing the forest industry because most land in Canada is Crown land, whereas in the US logging companies have to pay higher stumpage fees charged by private landowners. But this is tantamount to saying that the Canadian government should mimic private US practices–which is certainly narcissistic and imperialist. Canadians should wake up and stop using tired cliches about oil and look where a lot of the real economic damage is coming from. Anyway, that’s my two bits.
I don’t hate Americans, but let me ask the lefties: do you hate me?
This was in the hinterlands of the Old Dominion (Virginia) where all the women are strong, all the men handsome and all the children above average.
Shelton, was that a witty reference or a copyright violation?
Of course it’s a witty allusion. Grin.
Maybe I should have put a link to the quote, but I thought it was sufficiently well known that the average reader would not think I had made it up myself.
I guess I should have written, to make things more clear,
This was in the hinterlands of the Old Dominion (Virginia) where, as Garrison Keillor would say of the residents of Lake Wobegon, all the women are strong, all the men handsome and all the children above average.
As an honorary Minnesotan, I’m offended that you would take this and apply it to any place other than Minnesota (with the possible exception of Wisconsin, and parts of Manitoba, Iowa, or the Dakotas).
Kushibo wrote:
” After asking about murder rates, I asked if he had similar data on USFK personnel killed by Korean nationals. His incredulous response: ?€œDoes that even happen??€? ”
I don’t know why I feel compelled to respond to this, but a friend of mine was in the navy, stationed in Korea for 4 years, and had made friends with another Navy guy during his service… after my friend finished his serivice and “rotated back to the world”, they e-mailed each other back and forth about eventually teaching English there, until the guy suddenly stopped e-mailing him and fell out of touch.
A year and a half later my friend found an article about him being murdered by his Korean girlfriend he was living with at the time…had something to do with him wanting to move out and leave her, until she killed him. I don’t think the article was a Korean news source, and he explained it as an example of how Korean media reports of USFK/foreigner homicides or accidents etc. all the time but usually would not report something like this.
Just food for thought, I guess…
My point with the story about the American helping the USAcrime people is that such groups try to paint a one-sided picture. But I have to also point out that I know it’s one-sided because I have read the accounts of USFK personnel and other English-speaking foreign residents being killed here.
Somewhere back in the 1990s, shortly before (?) the time that Yun K?mi was brutally killed, a US soldier in ??ij??ngbu was killed when he was smashed over the head with a dumbbell by a mentally ill man near ??ij??ngbu Station who was upset that he was “walking and laughing with a Korean girl on a hot day.” While it didn’t get the day-by-day press that Yun K?mi’s murder did later on, it did get reported. So did the murder of Jamie Penich in 2001. They don’t happen a lot (and the same is true the oher way around), but they do generally get reported, even in an obscure part of Page 2 or 3.
I should also mention that there is the occasional apocrypha, like the story of Salvador Smith, who was supposedly killed by his hagwon owner after pleas for help to the US embassy for assistance.
Ah, it was foolish of me to say that they didn’t get reported, but the point I was trying to make is that one side is more emphasized than the other, as you said. Woops.
Speaking of Canucks, some of my best friends are from there, but they are not the type that have maple leaves plastered all over the place.
This post reminds me of the show they have in Canada where they tour around the U.S., asking the man in the street questions to expose the ignorance of Americans about all things Canadian (they even got Bush to incorrectly name the prime minister). If that passes for humor in Canada, then the joke’s on them.
Let me first put out my main feeling again — the anti-American trend I found in France (in an international dorm with people from all over Europe and the world) is largely harmless. It hurts when American needs friendly help, but thankfully the US is large enough (in many ways) to deal with that. Again, the talk I found against America was strong opinion, but kind of like what we have toward France in the US — more a tough jest than ideological program. Like a Yankees fan talking to a Braves fan.
Having said that, there are two reasons we can’t just lay all this on Bush or even the republican party.
Look at the headline of that Brit (or was it French) paper after the last election — when it had a headline something like, “Are Americans that stupid?”
President Bush didn’t get elected by a small minority of right wing nuts that Europe and Canada and the rest of the world can safely hate with a passion — that we dismiss as limited anti-Americanism.
Think back to the movie French Kiss. It played beautifully on the basic stereotypes of Canada, the US and France. But think in particular of the confrontation with the bellman in the hotel when the American female was angry because the French bellhop wouldn’t give her the room number of her cheating Canadian fiance. The bellman said something about “Well, maybe if France were a nation full of puritanical hypocrits…..”
There is a good bit of that kind of general thought going around that I’ve run across with non-Americans. It isn’t just the politics of a few nutcase republicans that gets firmly criticized.
Next, as I said before, there are steady streams in post-modern higher education that lay much of the world’s ills at the foot steps of not just the American government but American society too.
I got to where I looked at it like this —- I really got to marvelling at how well European dominated social theory, well, French dominated discourses,
I think the reason American expats are hated by Koreans is all of the troops over here plowing the girls. You don’t see a lot of Canuck solders acting badly, save for the Canadian English teachers.