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	<title>Comments on: Famous Last Words?</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/09/famous-last-words/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat,  5 Jul 2008 23:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Marmot</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/09/famous-last-words/#comment-18151</link>
		<dc:creator>The Marmot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1695#comment-18151</guid>
		<description>Savoy -- Yes, Shelton Bumgarner is guest blogging here.  His style and take on things is a bit different from mine.  I'd appreciate it if readers gave him a chance to get himself settled here.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Savoy &#8212; Yes, Shelton Bumgarner is guest blogging here.  His style and take on things is a bit different from mine.  I&#8217;d appreciate it if readers gave him a chance to get himself settled here.</p>
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		<title>By: savoy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/09/famous-last-words/#comment-18150</link>
		<dc:creator>savoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1695#comment-18150</guid>
		<description>Did I miss something...who is shelton bumgarner and is he guest hosting for the Marmot?  

"I am used to Ahssa! where I sometimes slip into ?€œsay it that way to be provocative?€? mode because I?€™m just writing for myself."

I've always thought the Marmot was above such antics.

BTW...

"I did not mean to belittle the sacrifices of the UN forces during the 6.25 War." 

Marmot's reference was to US KIA.  Did you intentionally avoid  responding directly to US KIA.  You sound like the type who hates himself for being American.

Aprox 3,200 KIA - UN Forces (UK,TR,CA,AU,FR,GR,CO,ET,NL,TH,PH)
Aprox 33,000 KIA - US (also "UN")</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did I miss something&#8230;who is shelton bumgarner and is he guest hosting for the Marmot?  </p>
<p>&#8220;I am used to Ahssa! where I sometimes slip into ?€œsay it that way to be provocative?€? mode because I?€™m just writing for myself.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always thought the Marmot was above such antics.</p>
<p>BTW&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;I did not mean to belittle the sacrifices of the UN forces during the 6.25 War.&#8221; </p>
<p>Marmot&#8217;s reference was to US KIA.  Did you intentionally avoid  responding directly to US KIA.  You sound like the type who hates himself for being American.</p>
<p>Aprox 3,200 KIA - UN Forces (UK,TR,CA,AU,FR,GR,CO,ET,NL,TH,PH)<br />
Aprox 33,000 KIA - US (also &#8220;UN&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: oranckay</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/09/famous-last-words/#comment-18149</link>
		<dc:creator>oranckay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1695#comment-18149</guid>
		<description>"I am used to Ahssa!...."

What does that mean and why does it make me feel like I'm watching a private conversation?

(I know what "assa" means in Korean, if that's what you mean, but I don't know what being used to it means. Thanks for the help.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I am used to Ahssa!&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>What does that mean and why does it make me feel like I&#8217;m watching a private conversation?</p>
<p>(I know what &#8220;assa&#8221; means in Korean, if that&#8217;s what you mean, but I don&#8217;t know what being used to it means. Thanks for the help.)</p>
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		<title>By: Janus</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/09/famous-last-words/#comment-18148</link>
		<dc:creator>Janus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1695#comment-18148</guid>
		<description>Isn't the opinion of the SK public a lost cause?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t the opinion of the SK public a lost cause?</p>
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		<title>By: snow</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/09/famous-last-words/#comment-18147</link>
		<dc:creator>snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1695#comment-18147</guid>
		<description>Wasn't it on another link of Marmot's from yesterday that basically said that Acheson's leaving out Korea from the East Asian perimeter, did not play an important part in leading the North to invade the South in 1950? I think it was the usenet link that said that according to Soviet documents, the perimeter speech was of minor importance to Stalin and KIS's thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t it on another link of Marmot&#8217;s from yesterday that basically said that Acheson&#8217;s leaving out Korea from the East Asian perimeter, did not play an important part in leading the North to invade the South in 1950? I think it was the usenet link that said that according to Soviet documents, the perimeter speech was of minor importance to Stalin and KIS&#8217;s thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Shelton Bumgarner</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/09/famous-last-words/#comment-18146</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelton Bumgarner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1695#comment-18146</guid>
		<description>Marmot, I will be more careful with my wording in the future.

 I should have written, "The reason being, the United States has a long history of screwing over the Koreans when it felt it had to for geopolitical reasons."

I am used to Ahssa! where I sometimes slip into "say it that way to be provocative" mode because I'm just writing for myself.

I don't disagree with anything you said in response to my post. By "screwing over" I meant that from what I gather from Miguk-Hanguk relations America views ROK as a "little brother" it can humor while things are good and ignore when need be.

I did not mean to belittle the sacrifices of the UN forces during the 6.25 War.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marmot, I will be more careful with my wording in the future.</p>
<p> I should have written, &#8220;The reason being, the United States has a long history of screwing over the Koreans when it felt it had to for geopolitical reasons.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am used to Ahssa! where I sometimes slip into &#8220;say it that way to be provocative&#8221; mode because I&#8217;m just writing for myself.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with anything you said in response to my post. By &#8220;screwing over&#8221; I meant that from what I gather from Miguk-Hanguk relations America views ROK as a &#8220;little brother&#8221; it can humor while things are good and ignore when need be.</p>
<p>I did not mean to belittle the sacrifices of the UN forces during the 6.25 War.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/09/famous-last-words/#comment-18145</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1695#comment-18145</guid>
		<description>Assuming such an event were to take place, I can see the need to warn China, Russia, Japan and theoretically SK but isn?€™t it a foregone conclusion that SK would not take this lying down? Wouldn?€™t they scream and shout about this? I agree that while extremely risky, a ?€?surgical?€™ air strike might be carried out but I think that there is too much to loose for this to happen unless, like the marmot notes, there is reasonable evidence to believe that NK is selling nukes to terrorists or other such shady groups. Even that, I fear, would be a pretty hard sell to the SK public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assuming such an event were to take place, I can see the need to warn China, Russia, Japan and theoretically SK but isn?€™t it a foregone conclusion that SK would not take this lying down? Wouldn?€™t they scream and shout about this? I agree that while extremely risky, a ?€?surgical?€™ air strike might be carried out but I think that there is too much to loose for this to happen unless, like the marmot notes, there is reasonable evidence to believe that NK is selling nukes to terrorists or other such shady groups. Even that, I fear, would be a pretty hard sell to the SK public.</p>
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		<title>By: The Marmot</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/06/09/famous-last-words/#comment-18144</link>
		<dc:creator>The Marmot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1695#comment-18144</guid>
		<description>The reason being, the United States has a long history of screwing over the Koreans

Not sure if I'd put it that way, exactly, especially considering how we paid for the "screwing" you cite with 36,576 American lives, to be followed with very real security committments over the next 50 years.

I generally agree that the U.S., like any country, will act to protect its interests, even if they clash with those of an ally like South Korea's.  The thing is, if the U.S. had intended to launch air strikes against North Korean nuclear sites, it seems to me that it would have done so a long time ago.  The real North Korean deterrent isn't nuclear, but rather its artillery pointed at Seoul.  Yes, if Pyongyang were to get caught exporting nukes to terrorist elements or other shady characters and it appeared to Washington that it was a choice between possibly losing Seoul or possibly loosing a major U.S. city, well, that not really a choice, as far as the U.S. is concerned.  Prior to evidence of that, however, I don't see the U.S. doing something really dramatic like bombing Yongbyon.

That being said, I could see a scenario by which the U.S. launches air strikes simply to prove to the North Koreans that their deterrent is fairly useless unless they want to risk actions that would ultimately lead to the end of the North Korean regime.  In that case, air strikes would be kind of like a North Korean negotiating tactic -- you might not like Yongbyon getting bombed, but there's nothing you can do about it without risking your own destruction.  In theory, it could work, but it's extremely risky and potentially catostrophic politically, especially if we don't warn our allies before hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason being, the United States has a long history of screwing over the Koreans</p>
<p>Not sure if I&#8217;d put it that way, exactly, especially considering how we paid for the &#8220;screwing&#8221; you cite with 36,576 American lives, to be followed with very real security committments over the next 50 years.</p>
<p>I generally agree that the U.S., like any country, will act to protect its interests, even if they clash with those of an ally like South Korea&#8217;s.  The thing is, if the U.S. had intended to launch air strikes against North Korean nuclear sites, it seems to me that it would have done so a long time ago.  The real North Korean deterrent isn&#8217;t nuclear, but rather its artillery pointed at Seoul.  Yes, if Pyongyang were to get caught exporting nukes to terrorist elements or other shady characters and it appeared to Washington that it was a choice between possibly losing Seoul or possibly loosing a major U.S. city, well, that not really a choice, as far as the U.S. is concerned.  Prior to evidence of that, however, I don&#8217;t see the U.S. doing something really dramatic like bombing Yongbyon.</p>
<p>That being said, I could see a scenario by which the U.S. launches air strikes simply to prove to the North Koreans that their deterrent is fairly useless unless they want to risk actions that would ultimately lead to the end of the North Korean regime.  In that case, air strikes would be kind of like a North Korean negotiating tactic &#8212; you might not like Yongbyon getting bombed, but there&#8217;s nothing you can do about it without risking your own destruction.  In theory, it could work, but it&#8217;s extremely risky and potentially catostrophic politically, especially if we don&#8217;t warn our allies before hand.</p>
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