GI Korea replies to Oranckay’s ‘not quite’ kidnapping post. Long post, so read it in its entirety. Here’s the money shot, though:
So I think that the detention issue in Korea is not really a cultural norm but a legal problem. If certain Koreans feel that they will not be prosecuted for detaining and harming foreigners than that is encouraging them to do just that. The “concerned citizens” on the subway kidnapped the soldiers off the train because they knew they could use them for propaganda purposes and could get away with it because the police would do nothing to them. It is the same thing with the fishing boat that detained the two Japanese Coast Guard personnel. Those fishermen know they aren’t going to get in any real trouble for what they did.
Read the rest on your own.
16 Comments
dark side of “democracy?” mob rules… tell that to Bush II.
“If certain Koreans feel that they will not be prosecuted for detaining and harming foreigners than that is encouraging them to do just that.”
Obviously. So the question is why they aren’t prosecuted. There has to be a reason why “the police would do nothing to them” and why they were given light sentences.
I’d love to see some other explanations.
In the meantime, it is not just “for detaining and harming foreigners” that people are not prosecuted to a great extent: “it” happens far, far more often to Koreans, among Koreans. You only hear about it in the international news when foreigners are the victims.
I look at it this way. What if the next time a taxi cab driver tries to over charge me I decide to forcefully grab him, drag him on to Camp Casey, rough him up, put him on AFKN, and make him read a forced confession admitting to his crimes. The same people who committed prior abductions of USFK personnel would be the same people screaming about kidnapping in this case. I don’t think the excuse of, we were just trying to get him to apologize would carry much weight like it did in the 2002 subway abduction incident.
Granted no soldier would try to abduct a taxi cab driver or even be allowed to bring one on post, in the scenario I just mentioned because we are well aware of what the consequences. The soldiers involved would go to jail, unlike the anti-American protestors who know they will not go to jail so they have a free hand to cause trouble.
This is not only about protecting USFK personnel but also the KNP policemen who take the brunt of the violence from these people. The KNPs take a beating when these Hanchongnyun types pop up to cause trouble. If serious punishment was given out to violent protestors maybe that would prevent policemen from getting seriously injured in the future.
People have the right to protest, candle light vigils, and burning the US flag, that is fine. That is well within their rights to do so. But they shouldn’t have the right to abduct people, assault people, trespass, and destroy property. Most of the time I feel many of these protestors are not even drawn to the event due to ideology. They are drawn to the event because they want to hit policemen and destroy property because it gives them a thrill. How many of these protestors would actually show up if they knew they couldn’t cause violence because they would receive long jail sentences?
Did nothing happen to them?
Anyway, re the 2002 subway incident/rally versus the East Sea fishing incident: I got the impression the former was a plot and the latter was merely a panic.
And if the second was panic, then maybe all this sociological stuff wasn’t really going through their heads and it’s an ex post facto explanation on blogdom’s part: ex blog-post facto.
As “GiKorea” notes at the end of the article, it is better to walk away, rather, it is *wisdom* to learn what to avoid in the first place.
Korean law is notorious for its misapplication and fickle nature. Only a fool would rely upon its actual application. A professional soldier should treat any environment as potentially hostile and study it accordingly so as not to become another casualty of ignorance.
Elgin,
Where did you get that pic for your gravatar? Is it something sold in Korea? Or is it something you put together?
As for the US GIs getting screwed, I say the kidnappers get the brunt of full extent of the law. It’s not like the US troops are there against the wishes of the Korean public (really, the majority of Koreans may just be scared shitless if the US troops just took off). As for if that will actually happen…
Listen, I just a drunken troll (I haven’t even read the article mentioned), but I am really curious about your pic.
Btw, to those GIs stuck in Korea against their wishes, well, it sucks. What can I tell you? But those who are curious about learning about Korea/Koreans, befriend Koreans you run into, and you may be surprised (hopefully pleasantly, but there is no guarantee in life, you know) It’s all good, though. Drag the mother out to “Dae-po jip” (if those still exist - try the spicy porks). They just might spill their guts out, and, at the least, you may get better understanding of where you are.
Note to myself: Stop hanging out with these crazy slavs.
Obviously. So the question is why they aren?€™t prosecuted. There has to be a reason why ?€œthe police would do nothing to them?€? and why they were given light sentences.
Cause they’re weak, corrupt, and since the country moved towards democracy, it is not PC to have the police hit students, even they they abduct a worker, crucify and torture him.
Remember the last time the po-lice had to invest Yonsei? The outcry? There’s nothing remotely cultural in this abduction business. It’s just a knowledge of the weaknesses of the judicial system. When money’s not involved, we be fine. aka ?°° ?§¸?…”…
Oranckay,
I’m not doubting you about Koreans being abducted by other Koerans and nothing much happening, but I’ve never heard that before. It could be because I don’thave the Korean language skills to follow the Korean language press, but could you give me some links to examples of this — similar to either the coast guard sea episode or the 2002 subway incident.
I can take me time and plough through Korean language articles from the press or elsewhere if I have one, but it is mostly a waste of time for me to try to dig the material up on the internet starting from scratch.
Off the top of my head, I can see parallels between an event like the 2002 (or was it 2001) US Chamber of Commerce seige and what Korean unions sometimes do to Korean companies, but as far as I can remember, the workers in those situations were immediately kicked out of the offices and not held by the protesters. I believe it was the same with the 2002 hospital seige that indirectly got connected to the subway incident when the riot police rushed the two soldiers there to be with reenforcements and then because Suh was taken there for treatment.
I really can’t think of any examples I’ve read of Koreans taking hostage for a significant period of time another Korean and holding them though I can think of many examples of people being mobbed — the local politician in the district getting the nuclear waste dump who went to the Buddhist temple comes to mind quickly.
I’d be especially suprised to find examples where Koreans took a Korean law enforcement person and held them and the Korean law did little more than shrug its shoulders.
It’s an interesting topic…
Actually I have on example, but [because] it’s an old case, I can’t remember all the details and they won’t be online. The story was told by somebody involved in that lil fracas, on the receiving end.
In the early 90s, a foreign insurance company, which had offices in Seoul and other parts of æ?‰?‡´-land [that's ????¹?, abduction, for the riff-raff]. The HQ decided to send an auditor, first to put his big honkey nose in the accounts, which were, ahhhh, suspect, and to prevent any further misappropriation of funds. When this guy arrived in the Country of soju-induced Morning Calm, he found something akeen to a situation: the *union* [that's Korean slang for thugs] had taken over the premises, wrecked the place, and kidnapped the CEO. One of their demands was that the foreign owner recalled the auditor, thank you very much, and let’s go back to graft work. That cheeky enough?
That auditor left, yes. In 2000 or thereabouts. Somehow, the thugs were not used to have people tell them no. Oh well, there’s no age limit on learning tough lessons…
The Welfare State
Mark, over at Gardner in Korea, posted a line a few days back that got me to do some heavy thinking. ( I know, thats unusual in itself.). Frustrated with dealing with the exchange, [its] just more evidence of shady dealing over …
God damn link trolls. Buzz off far east cynic!
I was thinking not of netizens necessarily criticizing what the Marmot has to say, but adding comments on the some of the touchier topics. …Which is fineit’ll stimulate discussion and in some cases balance things out a bit. I guess I was just being a bit cheeky.
Marmot, were you into journalism before you started working at the Chosun? That other blog you linked to gives that impression.
KrZ — Trackbacks are good. They are not “link trolls.”
Curious — No, I wan’t. What other blog were you referring to?
Actually, kidnapping in is an old Korean custom: in the Chosun period when a Sang-nom wanted to get married and all he could find to his liking were Yangban chicks the simple solution was to take by force what cannot be otherwise coerced. They would go on a long honeymoon and eventually force the woman?€™s family to ?€œrecognize?€? the union. This was also done when Yangban widows found someone that they fancied, generally Sang-nom, but because society did not allow them to remarry, they were conveniently ?€œkidnapped?€? and ?€œforced?€? into getting remarried.
Korea seems to look at the law and ?€œwhat is right?€? as not necessarily always being one and the same. Include foreigners in the equation and the foreigner will always loose. To rely on any sort of impartial blind justice in Korea is to dig a hole and hope that you will discover a diamond mine-it just is not going to happen.
I certainly agree that those people should be punished but the fact remains that they won?€™t. Korea is not an egalitarian society nor will it become one in the foreseeable future. Fortunately these types of incidents do not occur frequently. Until Korea recognizes the fact that the rights of foreigners in Korea need to be protected too, the advice posted earlier to swallow your pride and walk away seems to the be the wisest.
Include foreigners in the equation and the foreigner will always loose.If you change always to often, I would buy that. I just know too many exceptions to the contrary.
People here aren’t prosecuted because the “justice” system in Korea is whack, the police are sac-less, and many people know how to exploit that.