The Ministry of Education wants to put a native English speaker in every Korean middle school by 2010.
I didn’t see how high the ministry will set its bar, but instructors will be taught Korean culture and basic Korean before being sent to schools.
-
English Books on Korea... and More!
-
Visit My Brother's Film Review Site
51 Comments
Hasn’t this happened before, w/ miserable results?
Yes, it has, but just think of the quality they’ll attract with the low salaries and remote locations.
No offense to English teachers, but this image just came to mind:
http://images.google.com/imgre...../image/614(1).jpgimgrefurl=http://www.antiquetoys.com/adzoid/shopFinalAd.php3%3FdmFsdWU9TWlzYy4mdmFsdWU9NjE0h=480w=371sz=33tbnid=OXZaqdu-MZoJ:tbnh=125tbnw=97hl=enstart=1prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmonkey%2Bplaying%2Bcymbals%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
This will be (a) expensive and (b) pretty useless for teaching kids to speak English, but it might (c) make Korean culture more popular overseas when the foreigners go home and (d) lead to some good books/movies about the Korea teacher’s life, so I’m (e) not really supporting or dissing it at this time.
Re: Joe’s pollyanish comments, I can imagine a hugely disgruntled ex-English teacher going back and making a movie along the lines of Midnight Express, except that instead of getting buggered by an imprisoned felon his stroy will be ablout getting fucked by the Korean government. That’ll do wonders for the reputation of Korea - deservedly so.
I believe you left an “n” out of that word, Sperwer. And anyway, I’m not being an optimist: I’m just trying to milk bad policy for its entertainment value. If you don’t, politics will drive you nuts after a while.
All I can say about this is, let me guess, they expect to get all these teachers (preferably with masters degrees) and only pay them about $1,500 a month with housing.
That aside, theoreticaly interesting. I would be all for some education (even just a “what not to do” pamphlet) for all in comming teachers. Then again it would ignore the larger problem of people doing so on toursim visas and/or trupmted up degrees.
Essentially, EPIK failed for two reasons: first, Korean and non-Korean teachers were not adequately prepared for working together, whether in the classroom or in the office; second, non-Korean teachers were used in a grossly ineffective manner, working with an entire school’s worth of students, but meeting with each class of students - perhaps 50 or so at a go - only one period per week.
Perhaps, this time around, the government will adequately address these problems, but that’s not an assumption that I’d make. Even if each teacher in this new program works with only one school, and both Koreans and non-Koreans are given some(limited) culture training, they will likely be stretched too thin to provide an effective resource for the students. This program will need to avoid those pitfalls if it’s to stand any chance of success.
Employment
Two links related to teaching English in Asia. The first is via Scott Sommers. Scott provides a lot of good solid background and advice on getting a university job in Taiwan. It also seems that much of his advice is common sense that could easily be ap…
Speaking as an English teacher, I don’t think it will be “totally useless” for teaching the kids English. We are not all idiots over here for easy money. Some of us are fairly experienced and work hard to help the kids as much as we can. Plus, have you seen the quality of the Korean teachers? Some of them can barely put an English sentence together. There are very few that I have met, in hagwon’s or state schools, that I would say come even close to fluency. Until the quality of Korean English teachers improves, they need native speakers.
That said though, there is a big problem here with the quality of people they are bringing across to teach. I hope the state school’s take their recruitment a bit more seriously. Offering a decent salary would be a good start. Asking for good references and looking at the previous employment history of the applicants would also help. The old “are you white and can you speak good English? Ok, you’re hired” approach needs to stop.
Also, as has already been said, the native speakers need to be used efficiently. What about doing something radical like using the native speakers to give English classes for the Korean teachers at the school?
What about doing something radical like using the native speakers to give English classes for the Korean teachers at the school?
That would be an excellent idea. Additionally they should be provided with appropriate materials re: audio/video and good supplemental books. The biggest thing is the salary and as ddongjip said to keep away from hiring “teachers” just because they are white.
The Korean government must either fix EPIK or abolish it before this is even attempted. I don’t understand how they think they can organize this project on such a large scale.
Hell, several parts of the USA are going to have trouble getting a native English speaker in every classroom by 2010.
Ridiculous!
$35K per teacher per year X 2,850 middle schools in Korea = just under $100m per year. That’s for salaries alone - program set-up costs would likely in the tens of millions, and then you have the ongoing recruitment costs associated with making crappy posts from ??‘??‘ to ?????¼??? financially attractive and chasing down replacements when 80% of participants are going to leave after their one-year contrats terminate.
I predict annual personnel turnover) For what, exactly? Either a uselessly piss-poor teacher-to-student ratio, or the classroom equivalent of a first-class lounge to which the vast majority are denied entry. The former is worthless, the latter may well serve only to intensify already-fierce competition for prime spots.
An overly-ambitious, unrealistic, and misdirected waste of time and resources. Tax money would be better spent if the ????œ¡?¶€ spent $1b over the next 5 years to hire the global leader in educational consulting and revamp the way English is taught by current teachers countrywide.
I just don’t get it…
Public schools now want:
-A BA or higher.
-Preferably an Education degree
-a TESL, TESOL (more than 100 hours)
-teaching experience
-Korean “cultural awareness”
-ect…
And for all that they offer 2,000,000won!!??
Ok, lets say for example I do have all that. I’m living somewhere in the “western world” and I have oodles of qualifications. Why on earth would I come to Korea for that kind of money? Why would I leave my connections, family, friends, JOB (!!), just to come over here and teach for 2 mill??
If they want to fill all those positions they will be hard pressed to with these requirements. I know there are “tons” of people wanting to come over here and are willing to work for that wage. The problem is though, that the majority of them are recent graduates with very few of the above requirements.
So, why do those in the Education board feel that Korea is SO DAM APPEALING that people will drop everything they have back home just to come here and be a weigookin?
A fair point libertine, but how do you revamp the system if you don’t have enough teachers capable of doing the job in the meantime? I think you’re right. A major overhaul is required, but that will take a lot longer than 5 years I fear. In the meantime another solution is needed.
Also, I’m just curious. Where did you get 35K a year from? Man, those guys get paid a lot more than me.
If they changed the visa system so that earning money on the side by conducting private tutoring was legal, it could definitely work. As it is now, teachers who work fully illegally with a good client base can earn $5000-6000 a month. If they were a real HS teacher, I guarantee you the parents of students who were doing poorly would be more than willing to pay 50-80k per hour for a real HS-teacher, who is also visibly foreign, to come teach their kids. It’s hard to earn that kind of money in the US with an Education degree and associated certificates. Not to mention the fact that your income isn’t taxed her. I mean, foreigners pay 3% tax on their salary, which the government matches, and it all goes into the pension system, which you cash out when you leave. You could easily be earning $60-70k per year tax free. With the low cost of living in Korea, excellent public transport, etc. you can save a whole lot more of that money than you could in the US. In pretty much the entire US a car is an absolute necessity, food is quite expensive, your employer doesn’t put a roof over your head, etc. That seems like more than enough incentive to get people working here, and all it would take is a little tweaking of the regulations.
Now that is a very good point KrZ. I have to agree. If they changed the regs to allow private tutoring, I would seriously consider staying for longer. There’s no real reason why they can’t. As far as I know, the visa regulations in Japan work along those lines.
Why can I have a basic conversation with a sixth grade kid from Laos and not be able to have even a basic conversation with an eighth grader from Korea? I?€™m not even talking about those kids who grow up catering to tourist in Laos. I?€™m talking about a Laos kid that just goes to a regular school that you asking direction from on the dirt street.
I am encouraged that Korea is at least looking at focusing more on speaking and listening. These kids study English for at least 8 years and yet most can’t have anything more than a very basic conversation in English- some can’t even do that. There is a lot wrong with the system here. But this philosophical shift of focusing more on conversation and listening instead of complex grammar they will never use is a step in the right direction. Now they just have to align the curriculum and be more effective which I doubt this program is capable of doing. Using the teachers to help teach Korean English teachers, as mentioned by ddongjip, is a more effective use of resources IMO.
I think many of the recruits would come from Korea. Draining the experience and quality of the Hagwon teachers’ pool. Why not take this job if you get more paid vacation?
Sorry KrZ, but I think you are misinformed.
“I mean, foreigners pay 3% tax on their salary, which the government matches, and it all goes into the pension system, which you cash out when you leave.”
While you are correct in stating that the 3% (or so) is deducted for pension and a “majority” of nations get it refunded that DOES NOT INCLUDE TAX. Please know that each nation has a different tax treaty with the ROK and i have, on more than one occasion, paid tax here never to see it “given back to me when I leave”.
You talk about legalizing private teaching, nice dream but it will never happen. Why would a overnment, ANY GOVERNMENT decide not to tax you on an income? Seriously, I can’t imagine any gov. saying “ah geez, N need to tax that foreign bloke”. As well, this current administration is trying to LOWER the cost of private schooling. Why would they allow for an unregualted private industry to pop up?
The funny thing is, you are right about the incentives for working here. Unfortunately they are illegal and are currently part of why the administration is trying out projects like this.
Sorry, and just to clarify on something “non Korean” said;
“Why not take this job if you get more paid vacation? ”
because GEPIK and most of the other programs have eliminated the two month vacation for public school teachers. strike that, they have eliminated it for foreign teachers. instead they must do “summer intensives” or “camps” during that time. Some schools are even making the teacher just “sit there” for two months because that is what the red tape calls for.
The class sizes are 40+
The vacation now bites
Why would anyone with experience take these jobs??
Wow IMO taking away the vacation was a major mistake and was one of the few, if any, incentives to join such a program.
Juggertha- love your avatar.
How can you eliminate something for which there is consumer demand, yet which is illegal? Something which obeys basic economic laws; namely, its price rises with decreasing supply?
I am an EPIK teacher in Busan and have no major complaints about the program. Of course, they are lucky to have hired me because I am an easy-going, conscientious, hard-working, and competent teacher.
Also, I’ve heard that Busan EPIKs have it pretty easy compared to other areas.
The few problems I’ve had or heard about in Busan have been either a communication problem, personality conflict, or the native speaker was a total dick (I’m not naming names).
However, I see no way that Korea can possibly put a native speaker in every public school. Economics aside, designing (and using) an appropriate curriculum would be a nightmare.
Also, I can’t imagine that many Joe Schmoes would last a semester.
Ahhhh, I’d better stop here before this turns into a book.
Let’s refrain from using racial epithets like Chink, please.
‘Tard isn’t particuarly nice, either. If one’s point is strong, there is no need to resort to such offensive name-calling.
A fair point libertine, but how do you revamp the system if you don?€™t have enough teachers capable of doing the job in the meantime? I think you?€™re right. A major overhaul is required, but that will take a lot longer than 5 years I fear. In the meantime another solution is needed.
Also, I?€™m just curious. Where did you get 35K a year from? Man, those guys get paid a lot more than me.
A consideration of the available resources and the extent of the available budget would be a key part of a consultancy’s recommendation. The overhaul might for example have to establish a minimum proficiency for English teachers and slough off the slackers. A study finding that half of of existing teachers must be replaced would clearly be worthless and impractical.
I believe that a firm committment to clear and realistic long-term goals is the first step in rehauling English education in this country. I’m not the most familiar with the history of education reform here but I’d speculate that the past 20 years have been characterised by one short-term “solution” after another, each getting bogged down in implementation, and none guided by a clear, unifying long-term plan.
I’d be very interested to see the Ministry’s arguments in favor of this “foreign teacher in every school” idea and to see if they’ve gone so far as to link it with specific goals or to plot out each teacher’s class schedule. Will they teach only the top students and leave 90% of the school population without access? Or will they spread the teacher too thin by having him spend 5 minutes per week with each student? Every imaginable implementation seems completely ineffective.
Regarding the $35K figure. Any potential applicant be they on the ground in North America or Seoul is going to weigh this option against others. Would a guy trade making $20K/yr in a Seoul hagwon opt for $25K in a rural town where he’d have to be a serious teacher with serious teacher hours, few foreign friends, and no Itaewon or Hongdae? I doubt it.
This assumes they source the same applicant pool as hagwons which are largely native speakers with unrelated (and a few non-existent) college degrees. I would suppose a high profile program such as this would have to be a bit more selective if only to avoid the embarrassment of headlines like “Government spends $200m per year on unqualified foreign teachers”.
I say this not to offend anyone, but I hope that the “native english” they teach is english as spoken in NE United States…
But knowing some of these Koreans, they might drag a bloke from the farthest remotest reachest of Scotland or a patois speaking Jamaican.
Microsoft’s opinion notwithstanding, there’s no such thing as US English.
But rest assured: when I did a stint in a so-called top-class K Uni, the English Dept had a bunch of Californians, Montanans and plain vanilla Canucks, plus one half-Irish half-Italian, London-born fella, who moonlighted as a DJ, since he apparently never slept. They had to let him go, because the students didn’t understand what he said. Truth be told, I was prolly the only one who got through the accent. Cockney ain’t easy!
There was a slightly wit-challenged girl from Podunk, MO, teaching there, and she was amazed I could even speak with the guy. “I don’t understand a word he says!”. When I reported that, that fella said “Stone the crows! That fat cow speaks?!?” Them east-end guys ain’t polite either
?????¼???
Cute…
But it’s ?????¼??? [?…¨?¾…??“]
Re: Joe?€™s pollyanish comments, I can imagine a hugely disgruntled ex-English teacher going back and making a movie along the lines of Midnight Express
I’d see more something along the lines of trainspotting…
Virtual Wonderer wrote:
I say this not to offend anyone, but I hope that the “native english” they teach is english as spoken in NE United States…
Technically, “standard” American English (e.g., that encountered on TV and film) is the Midwest dialect.
You take a swipe at Scots and Jamaican English, but to my ear out on the West Coast, some Boston and Brooklyn accents sound just as foreign!
There is no standard. There is dominant or common (as in television and radio), but there is no standard.
The dominant media English in the United States is midwestern, which tends to dominate in California as well, which in turn reinforces it through Hollywood.
“There is no standard”: that’s why I put it in quotes!
Cute?€?
But it?€™s ?????¼??? [?…¨?¾…??“]
Gosh - thanks so much for the insight. ????¸¸æ???°??½??????†æ??. ?¹??®¸?½??º”????????¨?¸€?¸ª?‰¹æ®?????§”?‘??¼??¼Œ???æ?¶????œ°?º?æ??¿™?º????æ€?????½ªæ?¶. ?¿™æ?·???????¿™?¸ª?¸???Œ?????½????¾???½?¸€??¹. ??Œ?¿??¼Œ?½???Œæ??????¼?
æ?‘?””?³??½?”??Œ?¿?”. Ain’t me fault, you cain’t spell fer shit. And only a ‘tard Chink would have the idea to start committees to fix things. Ain’t the way here… We don’t change things through meetings. So nope, I really, really don’t ??Œæ?? wif ya. ’sides, it wasn’t insight [you wouldn't know one if it bit ya in yer scrawny ass], or even insider’s knowledge, it’s Korean 101…
æ?‘?””?³??½??€???Œ?¿??€?. Ain?€™t me fault, you cain?€™t spell fer shit. And only a ?€?tard Chink would have the idea to start committees to fix things. Ain?€™t the way here?€? We don?€™t change things through meetings. So nope, I really, really don?€™t ??Œæ?? wif ya. ?€™sides, it wasn?€™t insight [you wouldn?€™t know one if it bit ya in yer scrawny ass], or even insider?€™s knowledge, it?€™s Korean 101?€?
I’m flattered that you would assume I’m Chinese! Usually people assume I’m Japanese because of the flag.
I’m not sure if you’re trying to be a troll, or if it’s that you are unfamiliar with sarcasm in both English and Chinese. In any case, I wish you none but the best and eagerly await more of your creative insults and incorrect racial epithets.
æ?‘?””?³??½??€???Œ?¿??€?
Is this Cantonese? It doesnt look like Mandarin.
Seems the 2-bit characters became a bit mangled in the other gentleman’s response. Please refer to my original.
I think DDA, judging from his past posts, is being sarcastic, although he might just have a short fuse (kidding man!). Also I’d defer to him on linguistic matters…
Who said I was nice?
Wanna play cute with me, it ain’t gonna work…
’sides, I’ll clean up my language the day I have uttered as many racial slurs as I’ve been the receiving end thereof. Not gonna happen this century.
And yes JYC, æ?‘?””?³??½??€???Œ?¿??€? is Cantonese.
http://photos9.flickr.com/17023349_b064809482.jpg
Flame on
Curious,
I never knew that! Hmm. Interesting. I always associated Midwestern accent with Fargo. They say that Long Island people have the Long-G island accent (maybe Marmot has this too, i donno) but I never knew what that was.
All I know is that a lot of Korean students gets confused with Queens english, etc. I think the most useful english for them to learn is probably american TV english, aka midwestern english as you guys say. But this is probably discussed tons of times somewhere before so I’ll stop here.
You know, I was watching “The Office” (original BBC version) and I noticed that all these Brit characters were going, “Waaaasssaaaap~~” (out of American Budweiser commercials.) Are there any Brits who can explain to me this phenomena? I would imagine you guys have better beers to drink, and hence very little exposure to Bud commercials. Hmm..
Hello
I’m Leslie and I’m new here. A similar topic came up at Dekita the other day and I want to share it with you. It is totally independent from Korea or any other country.
http://www.tsure-zure.net/hana.....ntlink.png
Bye
Leslie ittdc@mail.tvnet.hu
Sorry, I’ve made a mistake here and I do apologize. The proper link is
http://dekita.org/weblog/nativ.....e-teachers
Leslie
Virtual Wonderer:
Or so it was claimed (Midwestern as “standard”) in the 1980s PBS documentary The Story of English. On further examination, it may be a bit of a canard. Check out this PBS page on Standard American English, which explores the issue more and calls into doubt the claim it’s based on Midwestern speech. (Hey, I’m not plugging PBS, but until ABC, CBS, or NBC explore this issue, you’ve gotta go with what’s available!)
Yesterday, I was almost going to cite national newscasts as examples of “Standard American English,” but seeing as Dan Rather and Jim Lehrer are Texan and Peter Jennings is Canadian, this casts some doubt on the Midwestern theory.
Regarding British beer, I’d better not go there. I’ll just say that, being a lager man, the only beer I’ve ever drunk over in the UK was Stella (imported from Belgium) and Tiger (from Singapore, I believe)!
…I should add that I would suspect that national newscasts in any language are probably as close as you’re going to get to what could arguably be considered to be that language’s spoken standard.
But Curious, Peter Jennings and Dan Rather tone down their respective accents when they do the news. They Midwesternize their pronunciation quite a lot (except Jennings does let oat an ‘aboat’ every now and then).
Well, yes, although I can still detect a Texan drawl in the one and a definite CBC accent (I mean that in a positive way, for those who know what I mean) in the other.
Okay, we’re getting sidetracked here. I agree: broadly speaking, they do converge on something like a refined, standard accent, which would be somewhere in the middle.
(Of course, in some people’s books, the combination of the PBS, a Canadian, and Dan Rather is unappetizing ;), but I’m interested here in the mechanics of the way the speak.)
Now that I’ve set the obvious joke up for Baduk, we can just wait for him to come in provide the punchline….