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	<title>Comments on: The Dokdo man speaks</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Gerry Bevers</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/#comment-15653</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry Bevers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 08:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1583#comment-15653</guid>
		<description>Steve, 

I gave you the wrong link in my post above. Here is the paragraph again with the correct link.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, </p>
<p>I gave you the wrong link in my post above. Here is the paragraph again with the correct link.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerry Bevers</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/#comment-15652</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry Bevers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 08:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1583#comment-15652</guid>
		<description>Steve: "It should be noted a Japanese map listed Dokdo as part of North Kyeongsan province in July of 1945. If Dokdo was part of Shimane Prefecture why would the Japnese list it as part of North Kyeongsan Province???"

Gerry: A 1946 Korean book referred to Jukdo, the island just offshore of Ulleungdo, as "Dokdo," which the book claimed was Korea's eastern-most point. The book even use a longitude to show Korea's eastern border. Tokdo/Takeshima was outside that eastern line of longitude given in the book. I have already posted the relevent passages above, so I will not repeat it. 

The 1945 text you linked to, Steve, is too small to read, but I suspect that it maybe be referring to Ullungdo's Jukdo, also known as "Dokdo," not present-day Dokdo/Takeshima.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve: &#8220;It should be noted a Japanese map listed Dokdo as part of North Kyeongsan province in July of 1945. If Dokdo was part of Shimane Prefecture why would the Japnese list it as part of North Kyeongsan Province???&#8221;</p>
<p>Gerry: A 1946 Korean book referred to Jukdo, the island just offshore of Ulleungdo, as &#8220;Dokdo,&#8221; which the book claimed was Korea&#8217;s eastern-most point. The book even use a longitude to show Korea&#8217;s eastern border. Tokdo/Takeshima was outside that eastern line of longitude given in the book. I have already posted the relevent passages above, so I will not repeat it. </p>
<p>The 1945 text you linked to, Steve, is too small to read, but I suspect that it maybe be referring to Ullungdo&#8217;s Jukdo, also known as &#8220;Dokdo,&#8221; not present-day Dokdo/Takeshima.</p>
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		<title>By: nora sumi park</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/#comment-15651</link>
		<dc:creator>nora sumi park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 08:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1583#comment-15651</guid>
		<description>steve (not a kyopo?) wrote:
Ya gotta love this map!!
&lt;a href="http://askasia.org/image/maps/japan.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://askasia.org/image/maps/japan.htm&lt;/a&gt; 
is it my imagination, or are korea and japan separated by a 'prefectural' boundary on this map?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>steve (not a kyopo?) wrote:<br />
Ya gotta love this map!!<br />
<a href="http://askasia.org/image/maps/japan.htm" rel="nofollow">http://askasia.org/image/maps/japan.htm</a><br />
is it my imagination, or are korea and japan separated by a &#8216;prefectural&#8217; boundary on this map?</p>
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		<title>By: Gerry Bevers</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/#comment-15650</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry Bevers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 08:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1583#comment-15650</guid>
		<description>Steve: "Gerry, the camera you have even while on its maximum telephoto 2X setting is about 70 mm (about the same as the naked eye.)It doesn?€™t magnify much if any at all. We also know the little Dokdo pic isn?€™t magnified becaue the field of view is quite wide at close foreground subjects."

I think photography is just too difficult for me. I getting confused with this "field of view" and "70 mm" stuff. For example, I still do not understand how you can tell what the original field of view was by looking at a picture? Consider the second picture at the bottom of this page. How do you know that the field of view in the second picture is not the original? The Ferris wheel and the lamp in the foreground both look to be in focus despite the fact there is quite a bit of distance between them?

Steve: "You can't disregard all Korean claims and then embrace one what one says. Either you believe the Koreans or NOT."

Gerry: I am not sure what you are talking about, but if you want me to embrace a claim, you first have to show me one I can embrace.

Steve: "The Korean claim to islands just reinforces what the Japanese fail to do. That is to show via their own records (other than by self proclamation)that they own these islands."

Gerry: For far, I have only used Korean records to prove Japan's claims on the islets. I have not even mentioned the Japanese records, yet. Do you know what records Japan has to prove her claims? 

Steve: "Apparently even in 1959 the rest of the world thought Liancourt Rocks was Dokdo and NOT Japanese Takeshima."

Gerry: First, I am only arguing whether Korea claimed or knew of Dokdo/Takeshima before 1905, so I do not really care what maps show in 1959. Second, I do not consider France to be "the rest of the world."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve: &#8220;Gerry, the camera you have even while on its maximum telephoto 2X setting is about 70 mm (about the same as the naked eye.)It doesn?€™t magnify much if any at all. We also know the little Dokdo pic isn?€™t magnified becaue the field of view is quite wide at close foreground subjects.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think photography is just too difficult for me. I getting confused with this &#8220;field of view&#8221; and &#8220;70 mm&#8221; stuff. For example, I still do not understand how you can tell what the original field of view was by looking at a picture? Consider the second picture at the bottom of this page. How do you know that the field of view in the second picture is not the original? The Ferris wheel and the lamp in the foreground both look to be in focus despite the fact there is quite a bit of distance between them?</p>
<p>Steve: &#8220;You can&#8217;t disregard all Korean claims and then embrace one what one says. Either you believe the Koreans or NOT.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gerry: I am not sure what you are talking about, but if you want me to embrace a claim, you first have to show me one I can embrace.</p>
<p>Steve: &#8220;The Korean claim to islands just reinforces what the Japanese fail to do. That is to show via their own records (other than by self proclamation)that they own these islands.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gerry: For far, I have only used Korean records to prove Japan&#8217;s claims on the islets. I have not even mentioned the Japanese records, yet. Do you know what records Japan has to prove her claims? </p>
<p>Steve: &#8220;Apparently even in 1959 the rest of the world thought Liancourt Rocks was Dokdo and NOT Japanese Takeshima.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gerry: First, I am only arguing whether Korea claimed or knew of Dokdo/Takeshima before 1905, so I do not really care what maps show in 1959. Second, I do not consider France to be &#8220;the rest of the world.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/#comment-15649</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 08:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1583#comment-15649</guid>
		<description>Ya gotta love this map!!

&lt;a href="http://askasia.org/image/maps/japan.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://askasia.org/image/maps/japan.htm&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya gotta love this map!!</p>
<p><a href="http://askasia.org/image/maps/japan.htm" rel="nofollow">http://askasia.org/image/maps/japan.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/#comment-15648</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 07:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1583#comment-15648</guid>
		<description>Gerry says that Japans aquisition of Dokdo was done via the 1905 Shimane Prefecture Incorporation. This was done under "Terra Nullis" law 0R vacant land premise. However they (Japanese) also contradict themselves by saying they "had effective management" of the islands.... Japan no longer mentions the Terra Nullis Law.

When Japan took over the Bonin (Ogasawa) Islands in the Pacific they notified Great Britain and the U.S. many times, even though they had little to do with them and Japan notified a dozen European countries of its control over the islands.

The Cairo Conference 1943 says all land taken by greed and violence Japan must be expelled from. Dokdo was taken by Japan while Korea was under colonial rule for military purposes and falls under this Law.

As mentioned this map shows that despite Japan's colonial control over the peninsula we can see that Dokdo is still fell under the jurisdiction of Chosun Korea and was not considered part of Japan. It shows the 1905 law wasn't really in effect.
You may note on the map the island of Dokdo is written as Jukdo in Chinese characters and is or at least was included as under Chosun Jurisdiction. There was no confusion on behalf of Japan that Jukdo was part of Korea. 
&lt;a href="http://kr.blog.yahoo.com/realtimejr/1461189.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://kr.blog.yahoo.com/realtimejr/1461189.html&lt;/a&gt;

It should be noted a Japanese map listed Dokdo as part of North Kyeongsan province in July of 1945. If Dokdo was part of Shimane Prefecture why would the Japnese list it as part of North Kyeongsan Province???
&lt;a href="http://news.kbs.co.kr/news.php?id=715651kind=c" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://news.kbs.co.kr/news.php?id=715651kind=c&lt;/a&gt;

The boxes on the first map seem to support this fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerry says that Japans aquisition of Dokdo was done via the 1905 Shimane Prefecture Incorporation. This was done under &#8220;Terra Nullis&#8221; law 0R vacant land premise. However they (Japanese) also contradict themselves by saying they &#8220;had effective management&#8221; of the islands&#8230;. Japan no longer mentions the Terra Nullis Law.</p>
<p>When Japan took over the Bonin (Ogasawa) Islands in the Pacific they notified Great Britain and the U.S. many times, even though they had little to do with them and Japan notified a dozen European countries of its control over the islands.</p>
<p>The Cairo Conference 1943 says all land taken by greed and violence Japan must be expelled from. Dokdo was taken by Japan while Korea was under colonial rule for military purposes and falls under this Law.</p>
<p>As mentioned this map shows that despite Japan&#8217;s colonial control over the peninsula we can see that Dokdo is still fell under the jurisdiction of Chosun Korea and was not considered part of Japan. It shows the 1905 law wasn&#8217;t really in effect.<br />
You may note on the map the island of Dokdo is written as Jukdo in Chinese characters and is or at least was included as under Chosun Jurisdiction. There was no confusion on behalf of Japan that Jukdo was part of Korea.<br />
<a href="http://kr.blog.yahoo.com/realtimejr/1461189.html" rel="nofollow">http://kr.blog.yahoo.com/realtimejr/1461189.html</a></p>
<p>It should be noted a Japanese map listed Dokdo as part of North Kyeongsan province in July of 1945. If Dokdo was part of Shimane Prefecture why would the Japnese list it as part of North Kyeongsan Province???<br />
<a href="http://news.kbs.co.kr/news.php?id=715651kind=c" rel="nofollow">http://news.kbs.co.kr/news.php?id=715651kind=c</a></p>
<p>The boxes on the first map seem to support this fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/#comment-15647</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 07:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Agreed heh heh... things were getting a little personal... (me inluded)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed heh heh&#8230; things were getting a little personal&#8230; (me inluded)</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/#comment-15646</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 07:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1583#comment-15646</guid>
		<description>Ahem......Dokdo???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahem&#8230;&#8230;Dokdo???</p>
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		<title>By: dogbert</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/#comment-15645</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 07:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1583#comment-15645</guid>
		<description>If the Korean population had always believed that China, Korea, and Japan were really all there were to the world, then how were people well aware that there were people and things from beyond China, Korea, and Japan?  That's a contradiction.

Of course, certain Koreans must have been aware of Hamel and his sailors, the Indian princess, the Vietnamese prince, and eventually, Portuguese and French.  However, there must have been a widespread lack of "geographical quotient" among the bulk of the populace, hence I do not agree that it is necessarily insulting to Koreans to imply that there were many lands and islands of which they may have been unaware.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Korean population had always believed that China, Korea, and Japan were really all there were to the world, then how were people well aware that there were people and things from beyond China, Korea, and Japan?  That&#8217;s a contradiction.</p>
<p>Of course, certain Koreans must have been aware of Hamel and his sailors, the Indian princess, the Vietnamese prince, and eventually, Portuguese and French.  However, there must have been a widespread lack of &#8220;geographical quotient&#8221; among the bulk of the populace, hence I do not agree that it is necessarily insulting to Koreans to imply that there were many lands and islands of which they may have been unaware.</p>
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		<title>By: Sa Hwa Dong</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/29/the-dokdo-man-speaks/#comment-15644</link>
		<dc:creator>Sa Hwa Dong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 07:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1583#comment-15644</guid>
		<description>I absolutely sympathize with baduk and know what he's talking about. Especially if you're in the US military that I can only imagine what that would be like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely sympathize with baduk and know what he&#8217;s talking about. Especially if you&#8217;re in the US military that I can only imagine what that would be like.</p>
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