The Segye Ilbo ran a piece Monday about something I’ve always found quite annoying — the inability of non-Korean nationals to sign up on Korean websites, something I’ve referred to on occasion only half-jokingly as “cyber apartheid.”
The story starts off with the story of Mr. A, a Korean employee with a foreign insurance company who returned from Australia — with an Australian passport — in 1999. Mr. A attempted to join a site with the Korean Information Bureau — a government site — by entering his name and his foreigner registration number, but a popup came up saying that the site didn’t recognize the foreign registration number. When he checked with the person in charge, he was told that only Korean nationals could register with the site.
The government likes to talk about Korea being an “IT Superpower,” and pours a lot of money into its IT infrastructure, but foreigns were experiencing tremendous difficulties using said infrastructure because they couldn’t even join sites.
A survey conducted Sunday and Monday of the homepages of 20 government ministries and agencies, 30 associated institutions and 16 regional governments revealed that for 37 of them, including 10 government ministries and agencies like the Education and Unification ministries, one could not join by entering a foreigner registration number.
Here’s the list of offending websites (in Korean):
What’s more, for sites such as the Unification Ministry’s, the mailing list signups did have options for foreigners, but when you try to enter your foreigner registration number, you get a popup that says your citizen registration number is wrong and asks you to re-enter it. This has apparently led to a fair number of complaints from foreigners trying to join.
In order to minimize the inconveniences foreigners face in Korea, the foreigner registration numbers issued by Immigration are supposed to play the same role citizen registration numbers play for Koreans.
In July, the Ministry of Justice and Ministry of Information and Communications jointly put into operation a real-time “foreigner real name confirmation system” that could confirm in real-time the foreigner registration numbers of Internet users in order to allow resident foreigners to make use of the Internet and minimize the inconveniences foreigners faced using government ministries, financial institutions and making online commercial transactions. Most institutions, however, are not using it.
It appears only civilian sites are using the system, which would confirm the real names of foreigners when they input their foreigner registration numbers in a similar manner as it does for Koreans (by checking the names and registration numbers with a database with the Ministry of Government Administration and Home Affairs). Government sites, however, do not appear to be making use of it.
About this, an official with the Ministry of Information and Communications said there have been continuous complaints from foreigners about difficulties joining sites. The system, however, is not binding, but simply advised. Anyway, he said there were plans to strengthen the government’s information efforts and eliminate problems for foreigners wishing to join sites.
Personally, I just wish the mobile communication firms got with the program so every time an entertainer gets naked I can visit the sites directly rather than having to find the pics secondhand through blogs.
On a related note, the government is trying to increase its online English-language information services
45 Comments
Intersting to see Jeju’s on the list. After all the talk about ‘globalizing’ the island into an FEZ, I guess they only want non-Koreans to honeymoon there - but not register a complaint, or even ask a question.
Personally, I just wish the mobile communication firms got with the program so every time an entertainer gets naked I can visit the sites directly rather than having to find the pics secondhand through blogs.
Huzzah! Not that I’m into that, ahem, but I know of friends. Yeah… friends…
Thanks for addressing this issue. What I want to know is, is there any group in Korea agitating for the abandonment of this system altogether? If such a group exists, I’d make a fat donation. (I’ve done web searches in the past and haven’t turned up anything.) Forget foreigners, I don’t understand why Koreans put up with having to use their citizen number to join almost any website. That’s private information! Imagine the outrage (both here and abroad) if American sites required a social security number for membership.
I’m sure most of the expats here have gotten questions like, “What’s the thing you like least about Korea?” Without exception I always say not being able to use Korean websites - everything from messenger programs to buying bus tickets online. (I get a lot of strange looks in response.) I think one of the issues here is that most Koreans don’t know any foreigners who speak Korean well enough to want to use these sites, so they don’t think it’s a problem. (Either that or they think all foreigners have Korean-style ID numbers, an idea I’ve run into more than a few times.)
Aaron- Well, get out your check book. I dug this up from an e-mail dated Aug. 14, 2004.
http://www.petitiononline.com/korea/petition.html
I wonder what Tim Berners-Lee would make of Korea’s exclusionary practices with Web sites–kind of goes against the grain of the WWW, huh?
You may have read or heard that due to “privacy issues”, as touched on by Aaron, the government is supposedly considering issuing a “virtual citizen’s ID number” that can be used to register for websites.
And, of course, you have the irony that unless you are a Korean citizen, you cannot even comment on the story online.
Just out of curiosity, is Tim Berners-Lee really a politically minded person?
someone explained this to me that the software that checks i.d. numbers is not designed to recognise non-citizen i.d. numbers, or rather, the newly issued foreign resident i.d. numbers do not fit in with the old data.
i don’t know who’s responsible for fixing this problem (is it someone from the top, or is it something like the y2k bug where it has to be fixed system by system)?
it is not something that is borne from xenophobic intent, although the companies/agencies that are involved may not be fully aware of the problem. the fact that immigration changed old i.d. numbers way back when to mimic the korean i.d. number system was supposed to be a step in the right direction, one that would have been taken at all if there really was an attitude that foreigners aren’t welcome on these sites in the first place.
but as with many other problems, there is neglect that occurs in the aftermath (which might have occurred whether or not ‘foreigners’ were involved).
it should be noted that a lot of sites get around this problem by having ‘foreigners’ fax in or email in a copy of their alien registration card for verification purposes, something available for koreans who have a similar problem. i have had to do this with several sites, like tourexpress and lgeshop. if these places were really thinking they didn’t want foreigners’ bidness, they wouldn’t be going through the more complicated step of doing this at all.
Ms. Park, you go a long way around the basic problem that S. Korea does not understand the “World” in http://WWW. Amazon doesn’t require ID numbers; why does LGeshop, even if it’s inadvertant? A big fat F grade for Korea’s government and business community on this one.
I don’t want to gang up on you Ms. Park, but Dogbert’s right, there’s no logic to the requirement here, and I’ve given up on registering on sites because of it. Sure in the U.S. they ask for ID, but almost always in the context of a transaction or getting info, say on your bank account. You’re not kept from even getting onto the site’s features. As for it being an indicator of xenophobia, maybe not, but symptomatic of what Dogbert called “obsession many Koreans seem to have about clearly defining ‘Korean’ vis-a-vis ‘other’,” that was spot-on.
i mentioned the driver’s license, which i have been asked to input as part of a form, as an example of private information i’d rather not divulge on-line. i wasn’t suggesting that it was akin to the national i.d. or anything.
michael wrote:
I don?€™t want to gang up on you Ms. Park, but Dogbert?€™s right, there?€™s no logic to the requirement here, and I?€™ve given up on registering on sites because of it.
let me make this perfectly clear: i am not suggesting that there’s any logic to requiring the i.d. number. but the fact of the matter is that, for the time being, korean companies and organizations currently require it, which is certainly an issue. a privacy issue.
but that is just one issue. the second issue is that foreign residents’ i.d. numbers don’t work as i.d. numbers. even if that were to be resolved, the first issue would remain, as it does for every korean citizen.
so my point is that there are two issues the privacy issue revolving around anyone using the i.d. in the first place, and the second issue of why the foreigner i.d. numbers don’t work and whether or not this is xenophobic.
i agree that the first one seems illogical, but a lot of companies want to know who is using their stuff to prevent abuse. maybe a system can be devised where that doesn’t require an i.d. number, but for now a lot of koreans (rightly or wrongly) don’t pay it much mind (although i personally think they should).
if that issue gets resolved, then the second one is moot (which means that eradicating the first issue may be the faster way to resolve this problem). but until it’s moot it needs to be addressed (and i’m thankful to the segye ilbo and the chosun ilbo (i think) and others that have pointed it out and are trying to get stuff done). but for me, i don’t think the very existence of the problem is in and of itself xenophobic.
Yes, isn’t that crazy? You can’t even sign up for a Korean free e-card site without this magic number proving you’re a Korean citizen. WTF?
Golly gee, I wonder how hallmark.com hasn’t been destroyed (where’s the rolling eyes emoticon when you need it?). After all, they are not “preventing abuse”, like the vigilant Korean sites do.
OK, Nora, if it’s not xenophobic, will you at least accept “paranoid”?
Ms. Park, come over to the Dark Side
Really, it’s pointless to enforce this ID system, it’s just to keep bureaucrats busy.
Dogbert’s right - the new numbers were originally issued with the promise of online shopping access, but that promise wasn’t kept.
If there isn’t a logic to the practice of excluding non-Koreans once, and then excluding them again, I guess we’ll just have to wait for a third occurance to confirm the pattern. Right now, it seems awfully strange to me that individuals with locally-held assets and excellent credit histories are denied access. It’s insufficient that I should have to use my wife’s card.
Hmm, excluding non-Koreans from doing business in Korea…the stories I could tell. One of my favorites is actually the least annoying. At work they asked for my bank to do a direct deposit of my paycheck, and when I said Citibank (this was before it bought KorAm) they said they don’t do business with it. Why not? “They’re not a Korean bank.” Ah, but they are THE BIGGEST BANK IN THE WORLD and when I travel, ATMs don’t take cards from Kimchi Mutual Savings. No dice. Even now that they’re a “Korean” bank, the management can’t be bothered. Yeah, where’s that eye-rolling icon when you need it?
I am almost never asked to provide ID when using my card at a store, yet the possibility for fraud or default is there, too. So, why should it be any different online?
Regarding requiring ID registration: any middleschooler can borrow Mom or Dad’s ??¼??¼?“±?¡??²???¸ for some fun at an adult site, so how effective can this policy be?
dogbert wrote:
Golly gee, I wonder how hallmark.com hasn?€™t been destroyed (where?€™s the rolling eyes emoticon when you need it?). After all, they are not ?€œpreventing abuse?€?, like the vigilant Korean sites do.
law enforcement has traced who was writing what by i.d. numbers. i’m not saying their consistent with it (nor am i even saying i support it, which i DON’T), just that that’s the idea behind it…
OK, Nora, if it?€™s not xenophobic, will you at least accept ?€œparanoid?€??
… about as paranoid as the national security law in general.
foreigner wrote:
The US social security number does function and is used the same as a national ID. Yes it?€™s not an official national ID. I recommend burning your SS card, if you carry one, and try and live in America. Actually I take that back, I heard there are over a million Koreans doing just that today in the USA. Maybe you guys know something about working, getting credit, utilities and renting an apartment without a SS number. More likely the American system just isn?€™t xenophobic like the Korean system.
by law, the ssn isn’t supposed to function for anything other than social security. you can refuse to submit that number and be allowed to supply some other form of i.d. you may get bewildered looks, but that’s the case. look it up. maybe lirelou will help me. if lirelou disagrees with me on this, i’ll take it back.
Why is it that when anybody says a negative word about Korea you somehow equate some nonsense some jerk in the USA does in an attempt to justify or whitewash what Korea does. However, whenever you can look at the USA as an example of a good way of doing something, you claim it?€™s not the same. Yes Nora Korea is xenophobic. Just because you love your homeland and everything it does, it doesn?€™t change the facts.
you may have been so blinded by hate that you didn’t see me write down that it was a very big problem. that’s not whitewashing it. my point was that i don’t think the problem here is xenophobic but one of bureaucratic neglect.
and hey, i’m actually doing something about. what are you doing besides making gratuitous disparaging remarks about kyopos?
Nora you just don?€™t get it.
i do get it and i am doing something about it. sad to say that my efforts will someday benefit a loser like you.
Now this has got me thinking about the ethnic Chinese in Korea.
Since they are legally not Korean citizens and most hold a Taiwanese passport, does that mean they have the same problems as foreigners?
My ?™”??? (Chinese-Korean) told me that since both of his parents aren’t Korean, Korea doesn’t grant him citizenship even though he’s a third generation Chinese-Korean and that he still holds a
alien registration card.
How true is that? Does anyone knows?
I was setting up my computer and found that AhnLab’s V3Pro was on the recommended Virus Protection software list at Microsoft. I thought that since I was in Korea, I may as well use a Korean company. I had read articles saying they are aiming to become one of the top global online security companies by 2010, so I assumed they would be catering to English speakers. I went out and bought a copy, but when I went to register it, I wasn’t able to, because of my lack of Korean ID. I ended up having to email their U.S. office (which isn’t linked to their Korean English site at all), and after about a week of emails, finally got it activated.
Isn’t it ironic?
I would have been better off going with a US company. If I wasn’t already inclined towards things Korean, I doubt whether I would choose a Korean company over another again.
Korean government and business has got to get it’s head out of the well it’s been yelling into and realize what the rest of the world has been looking at all this time.
Anytime anybody says a word of critism of Korea the likes of Noodles and Nora Park start claiming they are blinded by hatred.
Nora claims she is “doing somthing”, i guess when she talks about cleaning up the “unqualified english teachers in korea” that is her way of doing somthing. Or perhaps she means when she blabs on and on about the korean party line that USA=Bad and Korea=Good, that is helping.
I love how she things she is “helping” people. I read about some japanese being attacked. To Nore that probally means helping. Nora, you are just another noolji.
What a serious crowd here! Are you guys really complaining about this because you couldn?€™t access the government websites? Believe me, I?€™ve never ever checked out the Korean government related websites, which are so boring and could offer nothing. Let?€™s be honest! You guys are complaining because many Korean websites require age restriction (at least 19) to enter. Sometimes they don?€™t recognize my Korean registration # either when I have to put my name along with my #. My computer network system doesn?€™t provide standard Korean language version, so it sometimes breaks on the screen. I am often refused to enter.
Anyway, it?€™s so annoying that many Korean websites (even movie trailers rated R, Japanese cartoons, and women?€™s website on Love and Sex category) require registration #. I swear I am over 19!
What a serious crowd here! Are you guys really complaining about this because you couldn?€™t access the government websites? Believe me, I?€™ve never ever checked out the Korean government related websites, which are so boring and could offer nothing. Let?€™s be honest! You guys are complaining because many Korean websites require age restriction (at least 19) to enter. Sometimes they don?€™t recognize my Korean registration # either when I have to put my name along with my #. My computer network system doesn?€™t provide standard Korean language version, so it sometimes breaks on the screen. I am often refused to enter.
Anyway, it?€™s so annoying that many Korean websites (even movie trailers rated R, Japanese cartoons, and women?€™s website on Love and Sex category) require registration #. I swear I am over 19!
That’s an issue as well, I suppose.
Continuing to be honest, let me emphasize again that for me, at least, the real annoyance is not at not being able to access lame Korean porn or lamer Korean government websites, but at not being able to manage my financial affairs online. Secondarily, it’s at not being able to access even non-commercial Korean websites like those offering e-cards and the like, not to mention the ever-popular “cyworld”.
“not to mention the ever-popular ?€œcyworld?€?”
U sure of that? Because I have a bunch of foreign friends who have cyworld homepages…
I think one of them told me that registration is allowed for non Korean nationals these days.
You can register for Cyworld as a foreigner by faxing them a copy of your passport, telling them your address, etc. I would like to just be able to look at people’s sites on there without doing all that.
YOu can get a cyworld id just by clicking the ?™¸?? checkbox. I did, just so I can comment on my wife’s cyworld, but why you would want to make one is beyond me?
I would not say that Korea does not understand the world in “WWW” — Korea is certainly in a global class which is spamming. Kornet has been the no.2 domain in the entire world from which spammers operate with impunity. They have fallen to third place now but only because sneaky Koreans (Kornet employees) are now relaying their junk through servers in China.
I don’t have a cell phone. I don’t access Korean sites. I don’t buy Korean made products. I am full 100% pure “ooh don’t you have hairy forearms” Korean.
I bought a car in Korea about five years ago. When it was time to pay taxes, the bank discovered that it was unable to register money received from me without a citizen’s id number. I was amazed how quickly the manager was able to conjure up a “fake” citizen’s id for me. I was able to use that id on a variety of sites until I sold my car and no longer had use for the id, in the bank’s eyes.
In Korea usually the victim is guilty. If you can not get an ID number it is your fault. You can not get the number there is a reason, and you must “Think About It”. Why did you ask for number when you can not have one? You created the problem in Korea. Of course Korea can fix the problem, if you apologize for making such a problem, of course. Foreigners always think they are innocent in Korea. They think Korean must do things for them, but Korean can not break law just beacuase you are foreigner. This is CULTURE problem! So many problems come from not understanding Korean CULTURE! It is not easy one Korean CULTURE. Ah, maybe most difficult is Korean CULTURE. We try SOOO hard to learn your language, but you NEVER try understand our CULTURE! CULTURE! CULTURE!
The hilarious irony is that the Korean citizens I know living (permanently, as spouses of locals) in India and Canada have access to all kinds of sites online, which they’ll never use, while I don’t, though I would be quite happy to spend my money there if I did.
But ah well… it reminds me of trying to find a fax machine in Iksan (yes, I know, Iksan, but…) that could fax out of country. There’s ONE in the city (well, one for which you can pay service), and none of the other outlets in the chain seem to know which location it is. Why is it that in most countries any place with a fax can send faxes internationally, boom, just like that? Why can’t those little print shops do it? Surely they are equipped with phone lines that connect internationally, aren’t they?
Sure, the lack of this service isn’t hurting the business or even a majority of customers, who likely would never use it. But on the other hand, should sending a fax to another country be so damned complicated? Being so closed off that way must be reflected in a broader sense, such as holding back small entrenepreneurial business. That may not seem like it would add up to much but all kinds of import/export goes on adds up, really. (A small example is the import/export business a friend of mine was running between Korea and India.) Is there any reasonable explanation for having any barriers to that kind of small scale trade? In the same way, lost revenue to non-Koreans may not be mourned at LG’s online shop, but it’s just a silly choice to complicate (or to not bother to make easier) a very easy way to make money from people.
But it is their loss, small or not.
I would say it’s probably not xenophobia as much as an attitude that this particular issue isn’t that pressing or important. (And in the triage of business concerns, it’s understandable why it never gets dealt with. And after all, businesses themselves shouldn’t have to fix it, the system standardized for them should be built to work better.)
“(A small example is the import/export business a friend of mine was running between Korea and India.) Is there any reasonable explanation for having any barriers to that kind of small scale trade?”
It depends on the business. If it’s textiles, then you probably have to deal with the Turkish “textile mafia”.
Me? I just want to register at e-hanja. I might want to register at the odd e-commerce site in the future, but why would e-hanja require a ??¼??¼?“±?¡??²???¸? (E-mails to the site have so far been fruitless.)
I’ve done the driver’s license/passport thing before, but I don’t get it. It’s just a barrier.
I lived in Korea on the leading edge of the WWW (before it was cheap, and before there were PC bangs), but given the amount of online life I currently have, I can easily imagine having to put up with cyber apartheid (a truly apt term). No banking? No shopping? Little to no social networking? Fewer government services?
For whatever reason, the petition asking for ??¼??¼?“±?¡??²???¸ barrier to be removed is still active. There are perhaps other ways to get the government’s attention (a candlelight march?), but it might yet be useful.
More whining than usual, but there’s just no logic to it.
“There are perhaps other ways to get the government’s attention…”
I’m giving some thought to cutting off my finger.
U have to register to look at cyworld homepages or to leave comments on the guestbook?
I don’t have a cyworld account but I can still access cyworld homepages and leave comments on the guestbook.
thanks for the info, dogbert. it’s a credit union card that recently switched to mbna america. i may go back to using it only when i’m in the u.s.
things have sucked since they moved to mbna. i’m hoping that they will consider changing, although it doesn’t look like there are many good options.
what is up with all these rate increases?
I don’t know, but I suppose that the banks are just always on the lookout for ways to soak their customers through additional fees and percentages. If you’re banking at a credit union, you obviously already know that
Anytime anybody says a word of critism of Korea the likes of Noodles and Nora Park start claiming they are blinded by hatred.
‘blinded by hatred’… a little bit of hyperbole in an effort to be funny, since the person i was responding to started making dumb, gratuitous comments about a million koreans living and working in the states without ss#s in an effort to insult me.
Nora claims she is ?€?doing somthing\?€?, i guess when she talks about cleaning up the \?€?unqualified english teachers in korea\?€? that is her way of doing somthing. Or perhaps she means when she blabs on and on about the korean party line that USA=Bad and Korea=Good, that is helping.
boy, you really take things seriously when it comes to unqualified english teachers? were you jilted by one? has she gone back without telling you what her email address is? she doesn’t love you; you don’t need to defend her.
anyway, i don’t think usa=bad and korea=good. boy, i could tell you stories about how korean things around me suck big time. except for the homophobia, i think life in america is great.
I love how she things she is \?€?helping\?€? people. I read about some japanese being attacked. To Nore that probally means helping. Nora, you are just another noolji.
see, now by saying something as utterly stupid as this, you’re proving you’re just an ass. what on earth have i ever said that would lead you to think this? like your some of your other incarnations, your words here are showing you lack the skills to move beyond black-and-white, one-dimensional thinking.
i had mentioned to dogbert that he could email privately about his troubles in regard to cyber-apartheid issue, but yesterday i talked with the person most directly involved in this, and he suggested that i ask for people to send examples of i.d. numbers and pseudo-i.d. numbers that people have used.
it is helpful to get the full range for the individual, so if people can send in which places used their actual i.d. number and which places used a fabricated number (and what it was), that would be helpful.
but please don’t write your actual number or your name. we will provide this information as samples to the immo or moj people, but we don’t want there to be any chance that it could be used by someone.
so do something like this:
citizenship: usa
foreign i.d. number: yymmdd-2931001 (actually write the letters yy, mm, and dd, not the actual numbers)
bank: yymmdd-7000000
driver’s license: yymmdd-2931001 (same as actual i.d. card)
hana bank visa: yymmdd-2000000
get the idea? the more you give, the easier it is for them to see a pattern and how the numbers are not being used because they can’t be. also, it would be useful to give any extenuating details for something, like, for example, at first you couldn’t get such-and-such thing because they told you you don’t have an i.d. number.
plus any other information you think would be useful. please don’t use any profanity and don’t sound adversarial. the people trying to collect this information are on your side.
send the stuff to taenamu@mac.com. try to put something like i.d. number in the subject header. email me if you have a question.
You could always use an ID number generator. I’m not sure when they first came into use, but they are widely used by the many PC Bang trolls for certain exploitations of the Korean gaming world. You can download them on edonkey; or you can find IRC communities through various RPG gaming blogs/community boards.
Yes, it is illegal. But, what some people would do for avatar upgrades….
Iceberg, if that didn’t work you could always try self-immolation.
Or perhaps we should seize Dokdo until they give us what we want.
Can anyone explain why Korea has this id system to access web sites in the first place? I don’t know another country in the world where you have to enter an id number to say, get a free email account.
Is it mandated by law so that law enforcement can spy on people more easily?
Not only does requiring the jumin number hurt foreigners, but it also damages Koreans’ security.
First, any conceived sense of security gained by requiring the citizen ID is negated by the fact that stealing someone else’s ID is not hard for a criminal (since pretty much every site will collect that data). So the only benefit that was mentioned (fraud/abuse prevention) is nonexistent.
Second, as people are trained to give out their personal information more freely, they are opened up to more ID related attacks, such as identity theft. In the USA you see this as more companies ask for SSN for no reason except to get it on file. (I lived in the states for a while without an SSN. You get some really surprised people when you do anything, but you don’t need an SSN.)